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Quote (thethinker @ Dec. 21 2009,01:46) Kerwin said: Quote The meaning of “nephilim” is uncertain but I will place my trust in those who translated into the Greek Septuagint and conclude it means “giant”, I do not believe they meant humongous men but rather “mighty men” which is also used later in scripture for what amounts to a hero. Your definition of “nephilim” as “giants” from the Septuagint does not follow from Numbers 13:33. There we see “nephilim” again AFTER the race was wiped out in the flood. It simply means “robbers” or “attackers.” The sons of Anak could well be the descendants of heroes.
The intermarriage of the sons of God (Seth's line) with the pagan women of Cain's line resulted in an outlaw race of men. God destroyed them all so Seth's line could be purged that the promised Messiah may come.
thinker
I think you have me mixed up with terraricca as I believe the word giants simply means “mighty men” why she believes they are a angel-human hybrid.There is no evidence that God destroyed the children that resulted from the intermariage of Seth's line and that of Cain's.
If you stop to consider the wives of Noah and his son's might well have been of Cain's decent.
There is actually some evidence to support that hypothesis as in Genesis 4:14 Cain is hidden from God presence and we to are hidden from his presence by our sins. Still, that seems to be a common phrase and thus the evidence even is support of my hypothesis is weak.
I also found that the Anakites and the Emites were both physically tall people and were both considered Rephaites. The bed or sarcophagus of one king was approximately thirteen feet long and six feet wide.
hi all
Gen 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
why should God repeat him self to let man pick a women and leave there parent and have children of there own,did he not do that already ,
so God does not talk about men here but angel or if you want celestial beings.Peter talks about the angels.Terraricca wrote:
Quote angels have not sexual attraction ?they are spirits,so you mean they can not be enticed to do wrong?
My point is dependent on the words of Jesus which are:
Luke 20:34-36(NIV) reads:
Quote Jesus replied, “The people of this age marry and are given in marriage. But those who are considered worthy of taking part in that age and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God's children, since they are children of the resurrection.
We know from scripture that even Adam and Eve married before their fall. Marriage is linked to the command to be fruitful and multiply. I see nothing that states God commanded angels to be fruitful and multiply. If they had no need to reproduce then why would God give them sexual desires. If they are asexual then why would God command them to either marry or be given in marriage.
On the other hand if they have sexual desires then there would be a need for them to marry be given in marriage and yet their is not.
Angels can be enticed to do wrong since there are other desires that they are subject to that can be corrupted. Angels can make choices and this leads to them being able to be divisive. The can also reach conclusions based on the evidence which can lead them to be judgmental. From reading scripture I come to the conclusion that Satan is called the Accuser because he is judgmental and expects man to sin. The story of Job and even the temptation of Jesus gives that impression.
Terraricca wrote:
Quote why should God repeat him self to let man pick a women and leave there parent and have children of there own, did he not do that already ,
I believe you are missing the point I and others are making. The sons of man are the ungodly children of the line of Cain while the sons of God are the godly children of the line of Seth. God detests his children choosing to marry those that reject him for he knows that one can be led astray by their spouse much like Adam was led astray by Eve.
hi kerwin
you say that i miss the point ,you sure need a loth of spelling ,what was saying is that in Genesis 6;2
that the were angel,
because God had already given is acceptance to the fact that man can have sex because he mary them do you now understand.and the same in Peter remarkes.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 24 2009,01:41) Hi KW,
So you say.
But God does not accept wayward sons of Adam as his sons.
All I know is scripture tells us that Cain was cut off from the sight of God. It also goes on to give the written account of the line of Adam and does not mention Cain or his descendants. In verse 26 of chapter four of Genesis we are told that Seth had a son and at that time man began calling on the name of God.It is not much to go on but it is what little God chose to give us.
From other parts of scripture I know that God condemns those that call on the name of the Lord from marrying those who do not. That would make that a sinful action if only for its rebelliousness.
Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 24 2009,02:56) hi kerwin
you say that i miss the point ,you sure need a loth of spelling ,what was saying is that in Genesis 6;2
that the were angel,
because God had already given is acceptance to the fact that man can have sex because he mary them do you now understand.and the same in Peter remarkes.
I am confused since I am speaking of angels and not man.Are you stating that having sex is a sin?
hi kerwin
of cause not the bible never supports that sex is sin exept out of weddlock.i was talking about the angels who took women and interfer with man affairs,it is the same if man lower themselfs with animals they degrade themselfs and corupted the glory God has give them.
this is what Peter talk about in his letter;
Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
en 6:1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
Gen 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
(the sons of God ;were angels)terraricca wrote:
Quote i was talking about the angels who took women and interfere with man affairs, it is the same if man lower themselves with animals they degrade themselves and corrupted the glory God has give them.
this is what Peter talk about in his letter;Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
I see that you consider that the fallen angels were guilty of the sin of bestiality. If angels had sexual desires then I could see that as a possibility except the evidence that exists leads one to conclude they do not have sexual desires.
In a related question, if angels are bound in Tartarus, i.e. deep place, then who is tempting us and why was Satan able to tempt Jesus?
terraricca wrote:
Quote (the sons of God ;were angels)
And yet scripture often tells us that the sons of God are also believing humans. I am of the opinion if we checked when the term is used it is most often applied to a human and not an angel. I suppose you could try to make the case there were no believing men before the flood.
When did Satan fall? If he fell after the garden of Eden then who was it that tempted Eve to sin?
The answer according to the Vita Adæ et Evæ and the Slavonic version of the book of Enoch is that Satan sought to make himself higher than God and so fell with his host of angels. Mind you I am getting this from someone else and have neither tested it or the writings in question.
From what I have read of Vita Adæ et Evæ it seems that Satan’s sin was the refusal to pay homage to Jesus whom is referred to as the image of God in the account.
hi kerwin
you only know sexual need to be corruped?
the angel wanted to rule on earth the had sex to make their ofspring bring more violence
read those verses back and think,
if you still believe what you do thats ok maybe you understand lather .Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 25 2009,05:08) hi kerwin
you only know sexual need to be corruped?
the angel wanted to rule on earth the had sex to make their ofspring bring more violence
read those verses back and think,
if you still believe what you do thats ok maybe you understand lather .
I study the issue as I discuss it. I have read the versus and know God flooded the earth because of the sins of mankind not the sins of angels.Quote (thethinker @ Dec. 21 2009,09:56) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 21 2009,07:13) Hi TT,
No .. andgels were with God before the foundations of earth were laid and angels are called sons of God[ps 89, jb38]
Angels are not mentioned at all in Ps. 89 and Job 38. Sorry.thinker
thinkerWho do you think the sons of God were that shouted for joy when the earth was created? Job 38:7
Georg
hi Kerwin
col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.look what Paul says about Christ all things created that are in heaven and on earth” what you think was create in the heaven??
Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 25 2009,12:03) hi Kerwin col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.look what Paul says about Christ all things created that are in heaven and on earth” what you think was create in the heaven??
I believe you misunderstand that passage in Colossians which is referring to the new creation and not the old. I want to point out that according to scripture the sons of God were there to shout with joy not only when God set the foundations of earth but also when he marked off its dimensions, set its footings, and laid its cornerstone.That conclusion comes from Job 38:4-7 which is the only book that I know that refers to angels as sons of God. I admit I assume it is angels spoken of in the passage as I no of no other sons of God that could have been around at that time. I believe it is done four times in Job.
The point I made previously is that according to scripture Satan tempted Eve in the garden of Eden. Do you believe that Satan tempted Eve before he and his host fell from heaven?
TO all……….WE all have (ADVERSARIAL) (SATAN) thoughts in us, it is part of our minds way of thinking, Created by GOD to be in us all. it also can save our lives at times, because it gives us reasoning from a critical stand point about what we are doings and thinking.
It was not a separate (Creature) or BEING that was tempting EVE, it was a separate Spirit (INTELLECT) that tempted Eve it was her own mind reasoning, that to EAT (taking to themselves) to (Know) have a (eminent) relationship with good and evil would produce Wisdom. And it did, GOD even Said “Look the man has become as we are to (KNOW) good and evil. There eyes were opened and they began to see clearer more like GOD does, but experience was lacking for them to really know (understand) So GOD Cursed the EARTH for (THEIR SAKE) made the experience of evil Sever and caused Hardships to plague man, all this for His ultimate GOOD.
GOD acted as a true Father and warned his Childern of the consequences of there actions, but like most Childern they did not heed but have to experience them to really learn. We are very much like little childern and have to learn the hard way much of the time, but we do learn, that is what this whole experience is about it is about God teaching us, it was needful for us to suffer these things or The FATHER would have prevented it from taking place in the first place.
The concept of some separated DEVIL BEING Control us by coming in and out of Us simply is not true, The only thing that can come into us and out are thoughts and they are expressed by words. When Jesus was lead away into the wilderness and tempted, this was not some separate Being doing that , it was His own thoughts at work in him and He mastered them by the SPIRIT (intellect) of GOD , Jesus in effect had put himself to death, by not allowing His own WILL to control HIM.
In effect he (MASTERED) his own sin NATURE. He at that point overcame this adversarial Spirit (INTELLECT) effecting HIS WILL> We must also do the same thing with the SPIRIT of GOD Working in Us to Master this Sin Nature. “For he who will save HIS life (the way he lives) will lose it, and He who will LOSE HIS LIFE (the way he lives), Will Save it. IMO
Most will not understand this , but those who do, do.
peace and love to you all……………………gene
hi gene
you are totaly in oposition to the teachings of the scriptures,this is your own version of perversion and meurdering the scriptures,those are mens view not Christ spirit views.
you are now represent that other person or (intellect) that you called it ,you see you become the instigator of those ideas you proclam to be of God but are yours,thats what satan did.terraricca…….As i said most would not understand it, and it was MY (OPINION). But being you believe that there is a real Satan beings , then you must believe Jesus was Lying when He called PETER , SATAN or you as well as other just change Jesus' clear words to meet, your teachings of demons and devils. But Jesus said that he chose all 12 of the apostles and went on to say, “and one of you (IS) a Devil,” but again most do not believe Him because they believe the devil and SATAN is some other being of some kind, which by the way no one has ever saw. There is (NO) SATAN BEING as SUCH , only people with ADVERSARIAL SPIRITS (INTELLECTS) working in them. Those who teach doctrines about devils and demons are from the Harlot Churches as REVELATIONS says. “For they teach the doctrines of Devils and Demons”> Jesus did not teach doctrines about DEVILS and DEMONS, only false teachers do. IMO
Quote (Gene @ Dec. 26 2009,05:00) TO all……….WE all have (ADVERSARIAL) (SATAN) thoughts in us, it is part of our minds way of thinking, Created by GOD to be in us all. peace and love to you all……………………gene
Hi Gene,Why did you say this?
Is this what you really believe?Ed J
hi gene
my views as i understand from the scriptures his this;Satan is (adversary )so in the book of job it is clear that he his a angel who contested Gods authority,at the creation of man it did put him in a position of dominion and fail the test God put in front of him,but man as well fail to obey to Gods command,this is the first known lie and corruption in history,and by this the first opposition to the will of God,so it is now that the word satan becomes synonym
of an opposition or liar,i believe this is the case of Jesus calling Peter satan,because Peter words were against the will of God.
it is also true that any person who does not work for the truth of Gods will, his obviously working against it, what is satan way or in opposition to Gods will ,Now this is also a condition in man who reject God will in their inside thought by choosing to do works against their fellow men what is against the truth of God who is LOVE,this is why we have to clean the inside of the cup like Jesus said,and led the flesh or wants, needs and emotions guiding our lives,but to be renewed in Christ and do the will of God with LOVE.
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