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Scientists have to revise and revise their theories and laws; the commands of God will stand forever; better to base one's life on them, no? Science can explain WHY YOU SHOULD obey God, but they cannot DO the commandments for you. You could spend all day long counting the reasons why you SHOULD do something, but until you DO those things, they're still undone, and you have not done the command of the Lord.
I don't think BIBLE Study and dicussion should be Given to this type of dicussion I Quote Hanock:
'What's up guys? How ya'll doin?” insulting one another leeds to more and I don't wish to return such but I AM fully Capable!
Summary as I see it We Both agree as Bible states God Creations took SIX Days but we don't agree in what a Definition is of What is a Day in GOd's Sight? You state 24 hours as OUR defintion is Well known, To keep it Simple. I aggree God wishes to Keep it Simple but by not Confussing Men. So our true difference Lies in Defining Day!
You still have not answered my reference in below scripture?2 Pet. 3:
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.What is Peter saying other than God's Day is not Same length as Our 24 hour Day. PLEASE – Answer This Question ONLY and do not Aviod it with BUTs or More insulting wake-up requests … KAB-33
Kimba08,
Quote
What is Peter saying other than God's Day is not Same length as Our 24 hour Day. PLEASE – Answer This Question ONLY and do not Aviod it with BUTs or More insulting wake-up requests … KAB-33
Good question.The entire thought from scripture says:
Quote
3First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4They will say, “Where is this 'coming' he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.” 5But they deliberately forget that long ago by God's word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water. 6By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. 7By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.8But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
To answer your question, in my opinion, it seems to be a statement that God does all things in His time and for His reasons, and is unaffected or hampered by time.
Please note everyone using this verse has only used half of it leaving out the “a thousand years are like a day” which of course states just the opposite. If I ran the math correctly, using the same logic as applied with the other half of the verse, I could “prove” that a “day” is 250 milliseconds long so it took God 1 1/2 sec's in our time for the creation week.
We must be careful about looking at scriptures to find what we want. We must look at the context and how a verse fits in with the whole of scripture.
Wm
I do believe however that the 1000 years may be a shadowing of the millenium as a 7th day rest, just my opinion.
Nice Analysis Samuel and do like your thoughts to Stu before you decided to stop your efforts of enlightenment. I beleive this is what you were trying to do?
Yes we can select portions of scipture to say what we wish. Also I like your reverse Logic of 250 milliseconds.To answer your question, in my opinion, it seems to be a statement that God does all things in His time and for His reasons, and is “unaffected or hampered by time.”
AS I said before if you go back- Quote
——————————————————————————–
Here is another Scripture quote From Nick on Page 1 of this thread for comparison and double proofsPs90
4For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.
Again God's Day is not a 24 hour Day but compared to A thousand years. Here again this is not an exact Literal statement but states “AS” which imples approximation and not exactness. 2nd Peter is more explicit in that PS90 is uni-directional in time comparing a Day to A Thousnad years but 2peter 3:8 shows Gods bi-directional control over time.
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand ayears, and a thousand years as one day.
I think this clearly states God determines how much time passes wheither extremely large amounts or extrememly small.
Stated again : God has control of Time not time has control over GODWe seem to Agree? Quote – God does all things in His time and for His reasons, and is “unaffected or hampered by time.” So this Follows My Statement that God's Day is not necessary to be just 24 hours and very likely is not unless He so desires iit to be … KAB 35 nice to Meet you Samuel
My Mistake, Hello Wm (William?) “Seeking the Truth” same Avatar as Samuel confusing at times
Kimba08,
I believe we more or less agree, I have no problem with what the time span is as long as it can be supported from scripture. Some people seem to believe that it makes creation more plausible if a day means 1000 years. From page 3 of this thread I posted thisQuote why would it be any different for God whether it's 24 hours, 1000 years or a million years. I don't believe we need to try and make it easier for God, He called all things into existence and it could have been done instantly but I believe He built everything in it's order I personally believe it was one earth day which probably was somewhere around 24 hours though it may have changed length somewhat during the flood but it's all speculation on my part. We agree on what counts God created the heavens and the earth.
Sorry about the avatar, I've had it for a few years and have been reluctant to change. I'll look into it later (I've said that before lol)
Wm
Hi WM
No problem with Avatar Seems Samuel will be leaving due to unability to meet with Hard opposition to subjects of faith he feels strongly on or this is My understanding from side-lines. But I may call you Samuel a few more times? Sorry. The Few times I have read his words they impressed Me And if he leaves we Will be surely lessened by his Abscence!
Quote :(Wm)
why would it be any different for God whether it's 24 hours, 1000 years or a million years. I don't believe we need to try and make it easier for God, He called all things into existence and it could have been done instantly but I believe He built everything in it's order.I think we must go a little further in time than Millions for first day of creation in that “The Big Bang” if you will, May have Been Billions or more but really of no major importance if one believes God was the Creator. AS to making it easier, the only Person or people requiring anything easier is US in trying to understand anything about God's Abilities to creat in any Period of time, a day or a thousand billion years. Also HIS Days of creation would of been by necessity been increasingly shorter time periods as week went on. ie. 2nd day may of been couple of Billion to form Solar system while Big Bang may have been Many thousnads of Billions or any amount HE desired?
My turn for more speculation, I believe God started the Big Bang and defined the Physical laws (ie. Gravity, Weak and Strong forrces etc.) that would Make all of it right at start and let it continue to develop as he knew it would from his LAWS. This created a homoniousness seen threw-out ALL our universe by present-day scientists and I think this makes some of them wonder how this could be true without a single creator behind it ALL
Quote:(Wm)
I personally believe it was one earth day which probably was somewhere around 24 hours though it may have changed length somewhat during the flood but it's all speculation on my part. We agree on what counts God created the heavens and the earth.
Time is a HUMAN hang-up Not Gods, other than trying to explain such to us Morons
Not sure on your Mellienum foreshadowing but rather I think god used a day and a thousand years as a know famaliar amount “a day” and a huge amount (to Man few thousand years ago) a thousand years. These would of Been understood and simplier for a Man at that time period than a day as to 250 milliseconds, Which probably would have be gibberist to them but that's Just me not scriptures … KAB-38Quote (Kimba08 @ Aug. 01 2008,00:20) I don't think BIBLE Study and dicussion should be Given to this type of dicussion I Quote Hanock: 'What's up guys? How ya'll doin?” insulting one another leeds to more and I don't wish to return such but I AM fully Capable!
Summary as I see it We Both agree as Bible states God Creations took SIX Days but we don't agree in what a Definition is of What is a Day in GOd's Sight? You state 24 hours as OUR defintion is Well known, To keep it Simple. I aggree God wishes to Keep it Simple but by not Confussing Men. So our true difference Lies in Defining Day!
You still have not answered my reference in below scripture?2 Pet. 3:
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.What is Peter saying other than God's Day is not Same length as Our 24 hour Day. PLEASE – Answer This Question ONLY and do not Aviod it with BUTs or More insulting wake-up requests … KAB-33
You need to know when and where to apply certain metaphors:“For everything there is a season, and a time for everything under the sun.”
“A word in season is like apples of gold in settings of silver.”
A word must be in season and properly divided in order for it to be a proper word; otherwise, you could make any idea seem correct.
When God said “work for 6 days”, did he mean that men, who live for 70 years, should work for 6,000 years? No. He actually meant 6 24-hour days – and on the 7th 24-hour day, rest.
Are there another meaning to this? Yes, since the law was a type and shadow of the things which are to come, but that is beside the point being made here and now – was the heavens and the earth made in 24-hour days? I believe that it was. Is it so hard to believe that God has the wherewithal to create in 7 24-hour days all of creation that we see… WHO ELSE HAS THE POWER TO CREATE??? Why limit His power to what you deem possible??? That's like the people arguing about the resurrection…
“well, what about if a person got eaten alive, and there are little pieces of him in a ferret and some of it is scattered everywhere, because a bear came by and scared the ferret away…”
If God is able to raise people from the dead, He is able to pull those little pieces of dirt together! He is able to create the known universe in seven days!Was the Earth really created in six 24 hour days?
Genesis says that in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. All the other stuff came after that.
So there could be any number of years, millenniums, or ages, between the creation of the earth and the first day.
Genesis and the fossil records do not need to contradict. Of course carbon dating could be flawed, but if it is not, then Genesis still doesn't conflict or contradict.
There is nothing in Genesis that says that God created the earth 6000 years ago. In fact I find that quite absurd to come to that conclusion based on Genesis. Sure it seems that our age could be 6000 years, but not the earth.
Quote (Kimba08 @ Aug. 01 2008,00:20) I don't think BIBLE Study and dicussion should be Given to this type of dicussion I Quote Hanock: 'What's up guys? How ya'll doin?” insulting one another leeds to more and I don't wish to return such but I AM fully Capable!
Summary as I see it We Both agree as Bible states God Creations took SIX Days but we don't agree in what a Definition is of What is a Day in GOd's Sight? You state 24 hours as OUR defintion is Well known, To keep it Simple. I aggree God wishes to Keep it Simple but by not Confussing Men. So our true difference Lies in Defining Day!
You still have not answered my reference in below scripture?2 Pet. 3:
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.What is Peter saying other than God's Day is not Same length as Our 24 hour Day. PLEASE – Answer This Question ONLY and do not Aviod it with BUTs or More insulting wake-up requests … KAB-33
Greetings….If Iam not mistaken….I think Gen. explains as follows…the light and the darkness constitutes a day…forgive my inability to quote verbatum…and that day as we see it consists of 24 hours….It is not inconcievable to see that God created everything in six days….After all He Is God….and nothing is impossible for God…Sure God can do anything. But Genesis doesn't limit us to thinking that God created the earth 6000 years ago. It just isn't taught. It is really just an assumption. But one thing is clear, at some stage before the first day, God created the heavens and the earth. There could be millions of years between the creation of earth and the first day in Genesis.
Truly uncertian how to Kindly address the Last Post of Hanoch? How Lacking in Logic this Post is, I have great trouble thinking a person of such intellect could even consider thinking this made sense enough to them and then to Write it and Post it for ALL to see, offered as counter-evidence of the validity of 2 peter 3:8
2 Pet. 3:
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one dayThis Scripture As Defining what length of time is God's Day? (as in Days of Creation by God) I see Being Any length God so desires Short or Long And therefore his Days of creation were very unlikely our 24 hour time period as defined by Human days.
Hanoch's counter-Logic
Quote When God said “work for 6 days”, did he mean that men, who live for 70 years, should work for, 6000 years?
Hanoch uses reverse logic to arrive at above ie 6000 years of work and 1000 years of rest. This clearly ignores the phrase ” is With the Lord” in middle of Scripture reading that one day is “with the Lord” as a thousand years
“With the Lord” not “With Man”
Next Giving the commandments God is Talking “With Man” about Man days 24 hours not a thousand years but just our one day – 6 days work no nonsense of 6,000 years.
Seems Hanoch has seen the futility of such and now states more uncertainly “I believe that it was”
QUOTE]was the heavens and the earth made in 24-hour days? “I believe that it was”This now from the total certainity that implied I was Slow witted Just 2 Posts ago not believing in his version of the Six Perfect 24 hour days of Creation in Human time.
This to me is the Earth-centred of universe 1600's Logic that imprisoned Galileo for his Sun-centred view. Alas the Dark ages Loom again.I ask again is there any Logical Proof that What Peter is here saying, other than God's Day is not Same length as Our 24 hour Day. PLEASE – Answer This Question ONLY and do not Aviod it with BUTs or More insulting wake-up requests … KAB-41
KAB41 To understand how many days God used to create or recreate this Earth, we need to look at Genesis only.
God says morning and night first day. Morning and night 2nd day. morning and night 3rd day etc.
That to me shows a 24 hr. cycle. God created time for us. He did not need time.
Peace and LOve IreneWhat Irene said.
The bible is pretty clear on the 24 hour day…or 23.5 or 24.2 or what ever and actual day is.
Basicly the sun comes up…and then goes down= 1 Day
And he did what he said he did within those days…Which he did for a purpose.
Now what went on before that how ever many aeons before that I do not know.
I think we usually overlook the big picture …
GOD created a perfect world…
We Runied it…
Hes Gonna fix it…
And then Give it back…Someone said 1000 years for each day making a mini time line.
I could see that happening, I guess. I'm open to sensible thoughts.
GOD Bless.
True science is the search for truth and could only lead to God though not necessarily as even the wisest may believe it to be. I believe that the religious have always refused to consider facts that conflict with their belief. This includes atheist (whose god is evolution) and they have been just as intolerant as the worst of the “christian” leaders many of them so disdain.
I love watching the science channel, yesterday they had a couple of shows on the “Big Bang” and on the search for a theory of everything. Every time they think they've got “it” they find another layer which underpins what was thought to be the “basic building blocks”. As the theories supporting molecules differ from those of the observable universe we are most likely still many layers from understanding basic construction. My personal opinion is that whatever is found will ultimately support Genesis, just not necessarily the way we currently interpret it.
Wm
Quote (seekingtruth @ Aug. 02 2008,09:27) I love watching the science channel, yesterday they had a couple of shows on the “Big Bang” and on the search for a theory of everything. Every time they think they've got “it” they find another layer which underpins what was thought to be the “basic building blocks”. As the theories supporting molecules differ from those of the observable universe we are most likely still many layers from understanding basic construction. My personal opinion is that whatever is found will ultimately support Genesis, just not necessarily the way we currently interpret it. Wm
Hi Seekingtruth,I think you are right about ultimately supporting Genesis.
I watched one of those same shows I think.
It was relly interesting that they have discovered
that one of the things that allow the molecules to build
into a form of life was clay.
In the presence of clay certain molecules could unite that could not without the clay.God is the potter, we are the clay. Genesis said that God made man from the dirt, (clay)
I think that is pretty interesting.
Tim
Kimba08,Aug. wrote:Truly uncertian how to Kindly address the Last Post of Hanoch? How Lacking in Logic this Post is, I have great trouble thinking a person of such intellect could even consider thinking this made sense enough to them and then to Write it and Post it for ALL to see, offered as counter-evidence of the validity of 2 peter 3:8
2 Pet. 3:
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one dayThis Scripture As Defining what length of time is God's Day? (as in Days of Creation by God) I see Being Any length God so desires Short or Long And therefore his Days of creation were very unlikely our 24 hour time period as defined by Human days.
Hanoch's counter-Logic
Quote When God said “work for 6 days”, did he mean that men, who live for 70 years, should work for, 6000 years?
Hanoch uses reverse logic to arrive at above ie 6000 years of work and 1000 years of rest. This clearly ignores the phrase ” is With the Lord” in middle of Scripture reading that one day is “with the Lord” as a thousand years
“With the Lord” not “With Man”
Next Giving the commandments God is Talking “With Man” about Man days 24 hours not a thousand years but just our one day – 6 days work no nonsense of 6,000 years.
Seems Hanoch has seen the futility of such and now states more uncertainly “I believe that it was”
QUOTE]was the heavens and the earth made in 24-hour days? “I believe that it was”Quote
This now from the total certainity that implied I was Slow witted Just 2 Posts ago not believing in his version of the Six Perfect 24 hour days of Creation in Human time.
This to me is the Earth-centred of universe 1600's Logic that imprisoned Galileo for his Sun-centred view. Alas the Dark ages Loom again.I ask again is there any Logical Proof that What Peter is here saying, other than God's Day is not Same length as Our 24 hour Day. PLEASE – Answer This Question ONLY and do not Aviod it with BUTs or More insulting wake-up requests … KAB-41
“…God opposeth the proud…”
“… ye in Christ Jesus, Who has been made to us Wisdom from God.”
“… the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable…”If your heart is humble, you will attain to the peace which wisdom brings; if not, Wisdom will resist you, and you will not have peace.
The truth of God calls for us to put aside our ego; if we don't let go, we cannot hope to see the truth, just as the Jews – however full of the Word they were – could not hope to see:
“Blind leaders of the blind!”
Relax, God's got it all covered…
LOL
Quote (TimothyVI @ Aug. 02 2008,23:50) Quote (seekingtruth @ Aug. 02 2008,09:27) I love watching the science channel, yesterday they had a couple of shows on the “Big Bang” and on the search for a theory of everything. Every time they think they've got “it” they find another layer which underpins what was thought to be the “basic building blocks”. As the theories supporting molecules differ from those of the observable universe we are most likely still many layers from understanding basic construction. My personal opinion is that whatever is found will ultimately support Genesis, just not necessarily the way we currently interpret it. Wm
Hi Seekingtruth,I think you are right about ultimately supporting Genesis.
I watched one of those same shows I think.
It was relly interesting that they have discovered
that one of the things that allow the molecules to build
into a form of life was clay.
In the presence of clay certain molecules could unite that could not without the clay.God is the potter, we are the clay. Genesis said that God made man from the dirt, (clay)
I think that is pretty interesting.
Tim
Thanks Tim.I think people trip up with these verses:
Genesis 1:3-5
3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.and Genesis 1:14-19
14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark seasons and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.People tend to think that God created the sun and moon on the fourth day, when in actual fact it says clearly that in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Then comes the first day.
There is too much room for anyone to be precise and say that God created the earth in 6000 years or 6 billion years.
The above verses for example can fit the idea that the earth was created many ages ago and many ages played out before this age. After the destruction of dinosaurs the earth could have been formless and void for millenia due to serious volcanic eruptions, meteor/comets, polar shift, or whatever. The earth could have had a dense atmosphere especially if super volcanoes were responsible for the destruction of the dinosaurs or whatever preceded the mammals. Later God could have cleared that atmosphere and at that stage light from the sun hit the earth and the cycle of day and night could have started, i.e., 2 lights in appeared in the sky one for the day and the other for the night. The previous atmosphere on a formless and void earth could have caused perpetual darkness, so the suns light wasn't able to reach like it can now.
I think we should just admit that we truly do not know rather than saying it is 6000 years or 6 billion, or whatever. If we become adamant that the earth is 6000 years and it turns out that it isn't as Science says, then other messages that are preached by such people will have less credibility.
Personally I don't think it is wise to be definite about something that has too many gaps. Opinions are OK in my opinion (just as well they are OK), but teaching a sketchy theory as fact is reckless.
.T8….everyone speaks from their perspectives and if they believe them they need to speak as such, however thats still their opinion whoever derived anyway. When on uses the word of God to Shore up his opinion i not wrong but when one preaches it as dogma thats wrong, we can all say the word of God is truth and it is, however the word of God is not always understood or translated correctly and New and different incites are part of growth, just like the Genesis thing you are talking about, remember the bible is written in symbolic, literal, non literal, Parables, and etc, as a result confusion abounds that why it says the SUM of God's word is truth. I personally believe the creation took much longer then 6 Days, even possible millions of years as Science has proved. No one has all the truth we only see in part, Paul plainly said that. So we need to be tolerant of others views, i Have learned a lot from others and am always looking for more understanding no matter where it comes from. I don't believe i know it all and am open to learning. When people position themselves as the absolute authority of what is right or wrong, thats when you get in trouble, because they become Judges of others motives and we are not told to do that. I think eventually we are all going to be surprised as to how much we don't really know.
Imo………blessings ……….gene
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