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Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 14 2009,03:55) Hi Jodi Quote (Jodi Lee @ Aug. 13 2009,11:45) How do you dismiss the fact that Jesus was raised not as God, but as an immortal MAN? How do you explain that Jesus raised himself from the dead?
WJ
HUH?Jesus was raised by His Father.
Quote (Gene @ Aug. 14 2009,02:51) Thinker………..Simple, Jesus said (THOU ART THE ONLY TRUE GOD) What part of that don't you deluded TRINITARIANS UNDERSTAND, God himself said YOUR SHALL HAVE (NO ) OTHER GOD BESIDES ME, AND ON AND ON IT GOES WITH MANY, MANY SCRIPTURES, So while you may say I have a big Mouth , for shouting the truth, You have a deluded Mind and believe (THE LIE) as all TRINITARIANS DO. If you doubt this Just read 2Ths 2 and maybe the light will go on, all though i doubt it. Anyone who does not believe Jesus is in (FULL) SUBJECTION TO THE FATHER IS SIMPLY A LIAR. “FOR I (ALWAYS) DO THOSE THINGS THAT PLEASE THE FATHER”> sounds to me like Jesus knows who to seek approval from and it's not himself. But lying TRINITARIANS say Jesus is (EQUAL TO THE ONE HE OBEYS), Pure garbage fostered by the APOSTATE CHURCHES. A LIE which Jesus himself will abolish at His return as explained in 2Ths 2. IMO peace and love……………………….gene
Gene,
The apostle John said that Jesus Christ is the true God and eternal life,Quote And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life. (1 John 5:20) What part of this do you not understand? You think you know the mind of the Judge. The Father and the Son are the true God!
thinker
John 20
27Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
28And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God.
29Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
If Jesus was not worthy of the Glory of his Father, he would have refutted this statement, just like the angel did to the John that wrote revelations.
Thomas called him My Lord and My God, if Jesus was not part of the Godhead this would clearly be Idolatry for the fact that the Father said…
You Shall have no other Gods before me.
Yet Thomas called Jesus My Lord and My God, and Jesus did not object?
How can we reconcile this contradiction without trinitarianism…
If you believe otherwise, then that makes Jesus a sinner…therefore his blood wouldn't be capable of reconciling us to the Lord, and christianity is now a lie.
If you believe Jesus is a part of the God Head, then all is well.
Yes he received power from his Father, yes he is subject to the father.
But the whole point of trinitarianism is that Jesus CAME from the Father's OWN essence.
So in essence he is equally God in the essence, without the FULL powers of the father.
The father blessed him with His Full Powers seeing him worthy because of the sacrifice he made for mankind.
I always and will always revere the Father as the Highest, and Jesus and the Holy Spirit as His servents.
But I also believe that they came from him, therefore are equally God in essence not in authority.
This way I can worship and praise Jesus without it being Idolatry. and that all the contradictory scripture may be reconciled.
Quote (Jodi Lee @ Aug. 14 2009,04:22) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 14 2009,03:55) Hi Jodi Quote (Jodi Lee @ Aug. 13 2009,11:45) How do you dismiss the fact that Jesus was raised not as God, but as an immortal MAN? How do you explain that Jesus raised himself from the dead?
WJ
HUH?Jesus was raised by His Father.
What do you mean “huh?”Quote 19 Jesus answered and said to them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”
20 Then the Jews said, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?”
21 But He was speaking of the temple of His body. 22 Therefore, when He had risen from the dead, His disciples remembered that He had said this to them; and they believed the Scripture and the word which Jesus had said. (John 2:19-22)The resurrection was an act of the whole Trinity.
thinker
If I dip a cup into the Ocean and take a sample of the water.
In my cup, isn't it the water FROM the Ocean?
So in that cup, it is equally Ocean Water as is the Ocean itself.
If Jesus CAME FORTH from The Father… and The Father is God.
Then Jesus is equally God.
BUT
The ocean has waves and harbors great creatures of life.
This cup of ocean water can only harbor what can fit in the cup.
So the Ocean is still Greater than the Cup of Ocean Water…altho they are EQUAL IN ESSENCE.
This is my trinitarian view.
Jesus is equally God as The Father is….
He is just not as great in authority or capability…Only what The Father allows him to be, is what he is.
But he's still equally God.
This is why he is The Son of God and The Son of Man.
These claims were to identify that he was a crossbreed.
Part God, Part Man…he is the bridge that reconciles us with The God that created us. Amen
WorshippingJesus said to Jodi Lee:
Quote id you notice there is no need of the light for the “Glory of God” in it yet here we see who the light is… 23 The city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine in it, for the glory of God illuminated it. “The Lamb is its light”.
Imagine that the Glory of God illuminated it and the lamb is its light, therfore the Lamb (Jesus) is God, for he is the one who Illuminates it!
WJ,
Amen my brother! The Lamb is the Light! Praise His name!thinker
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 14 2009,03:53) Quote (Gene @ Aug. 13 2009,11:38) WJ……….If Jesus (RECEIVED) POWER AND AUTHORITY that means He never had (it) BEFORE, Where does it say he ever had this power and authority before his resurrection or that He ever was a GOD co-equal with the FATHER., common since tells you that. IMO peace and love………………..gene
Hi GeneRead Phil 2. and John 1:1, 18
The fact that he now has it is the point. What the Father has given him he will have for Eternity!
You still have not addressed the point.
WJ
And He had all authority BEFORE He came into the world. He gave it up willingly and the Father gave it back to Him. And he has it NOW.Would Gene dare to explain why Paul said that the Son WILL BE subject to the Father? This means that He is NOT subject to the Father now. He is at the Father's right hand.
thinker
Jodi Lee said:
Quote Jesus not as the ONE TRUE God, but as the LAMB, the human being that died for us. Revelation refers to Jesus not as God but as the Son of God. Revelation refers to Jesus not as God but as the root and offspring of David. Revelation refers to Jesus not as God, but as the Son of MAN. See WJ's post above. The Revelation refers to Christ in both His divinity and His humanity. And the term “Son of Man” cannot be a reference to His humanity because the Son of Man came from heaven,
Quote No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven. (John 3:13)
and,Quote What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? (John 6:62) Therefore, the title “Son of man” has no reference to His humanity but to His office as Mediator.
thinker
TO GENE:
Gene,
You said that the Son does nothing in the subjugation His ememies. You said that the Father does it all. I pointed out to you that one of the enemies to be subjugated is death and that Hebrew 2:14 says that Christ will destroy death. What is your reply (no insults)?thinker
Hi RokkaMan
Quote (RokkaMan @ Aug. 13 2009,12:36) So in essence he is equally God in the essence, without the FULL powers of the father.
I look at God's essence as being more like fire, for God is a consuming fire. Jesus is the Baptiser in the Holy Spirit and “fire”.If you take two torches and light one with the other they are both now the same fire in every way.
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 14 2009,05:16) Hi RokkaMan Quote (RokkaMan @ Aug. 13 2009,12:36) So in essence he is equally God in the essence, without the FULL powers of the father.
I look at God's essence as being more like fire, for God is a consuming fire. Jesus is the Baptiser in the Holy Spirit and “fire”.If you take two torches and light one with the other they are both now the same fire in every way.
WJ
There is only so far we can dive into concept, before it becomes pure speculation.I think the important thing is understanding that Jesus is divine and he is God The Son and Word made flesh.
My approach that he is equally God but not fully as great as the Father is the sense that everything was “given” to him. So he didn't originally possess it.
It'ts kind of like when a humanis conceived…In the womb it as all the potential of a Human Being, yet it is not fully there yet.
Jesus has all the potential to be like The Father, and will be like The Father…but he's not there yet…That alone makes him less than the Father for he has to acquire All things, where as the Father always eternally has all things.
the blind leading the blind, right into the pit
you all should step it up a little bit
1 yohanan 5.10
the one who believes in the son of Yah has the witness in himself, the one who does not believe in Yah has made himself a liar, because he has not believed the witness that Yah has given according to his son, and this witness the Yah has given us everlasting life, and this life is in his son, (thinker you understand who “his' is right, there is no him in this scripture)
i have written this to you who believe in the name of the son of Yah, so that you possess everlasting life……and this is THE BOLDNESS THAT WE HAVE IN HIM, THAT IF WE ASK WHATEVER ACCORDING TO HIS DESIRE, HE HEARS US.
CHRIST IS OUR MEDIATOR, WE CANNOT ENTER THE KINGDOM WITHOUT CHRIST OPENING THE DOOR.
why would yohanan not tell us to ask in his name, that is the only way we are going to recieve.
remember when mosheh ask for mercy on the people when the sinned, Yah was going to wipe them all out, for their ungratefulness, Christ has way more pull then that with the father.
i have no problem asking christ to mediate for me, it the only way.
you all stop at christ, i go through him.
Quote (RokkaMan @ Aug. 14 2009,04:42) This is why he is The Son of God and The Son of Man. These claims were to identify that he was a crossbreed.
Oh dear……Crossbread? Now you're in trouble!
Teasing you,
MandyHi and welcome R,
Scripture speaks of the man Jesus Christ[eg Acts 2 22-23] but you know better and say he was not a man?Can a man follow a crossbreed with a headstart?
Nick……..welcome back, I was beginning to worry about you. Indeed can we relate to a crossbreed, and in any way think He is truly one of Us, some demigod, superhuman Preexistence Perfect Being who some how transfers Himself into a human body and tries to fool us that He really is just like us in (EVERY) Way. All this is TRINITARIAN GARBAGE. ALL who do not see Jesus exactly in every way as one of us humans simply do not see Jesus, nor can honestly relate with him as a true Brother at all. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………gene
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