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Quote (Gene @ Aug. 01 2009,03:02) Thinker…….Why do you ignore the simple clear words of Jesus to hold on to your False Trinitarian teachings?. Dump those false teachings and except the simple plain word of Jesus who said He could do (NOTHING) Himself and the FATHER in HIM does the WORKS. It amazes Us why you can even understand these simple things written. What you are teaching is in total contradiction of GOD the FATHER and Jesus Christ our brother. peace and love…………………gene
To All,
Yesterday Gene posted that Jesus is “lord” all small letters as if He is not greater than any man. Today he refers to Jesus simply as our “brother.” This is what the emphasis on the exaltation of Christ does to anti-trinitarians. It causes them to diminish Christ more than they did before. Christ is merely a “lord” and a brother now. He is not King of kings and Lord of lords.To Trinitarians,
Keep emphasizing the exaltation of Christ and Gene will eventually reduce Him to a mere sinner.thinker
Hi TT,
Jesus is the Lord of all and head of the Church.
But is the branch more similar to the vine or to the Gardener?Thinker ……….Show us where Jesus never said that the Father is (GREATER) the HIM then. Jesus is my brother (exactly like me) only without ever sinning. because the FATHER was With him at berth, and Keep Him from sinning. The difference between me and You is I am not and Idolater , I have ONLY ONE TRUE GOD , as Jesus said he did. Me and Jesus See the FATHER exactly the same I worship the FATHER ONLY and I also Honor Jesus MY brother , Whom the (FATHER) has Placed over Me and He watches me like a great Eagle , he is the great Sheppard of the Children of GOD the FATHER, we are in His custody, for safe Keeping by command of the FATHER< His FATHER and MY FATHER His GOD and MY GOD. How simple plain and clear , but for a TRINITARIAN because of the Deluding Spirit sent to them they can't comprehend that. Thinker you sorrow my soul brother .
peace and love ………………………gene
Quote (Gene @ Aug. 01 2009,06:21) Thinker ……….Show us where Jesus never said that the Father is (GREATER) the HIM then. Jesus is my brother (exactly like me) only without ever sinning. because the FATHER was With him at berth, and Keep Him from sinning. The difference between me and You is I am not and Idolater , I have ONLY ONE TRUE GOD , as Jesus said he did. Me and Jesus See the FATHER exactly the same I worship the FATHER ONLY and I also Honor Jesus MY brother , Whom the (FATHER) has Placed over Me and He watches me like a great Eagle , he is the great Sheppard of the Children of GOD the FATHER, we are in His custody, for safe Keeping by command of the FATHER< His FATHER and MY FATHER His GOD and MY GOD. How simple plain and clear , but for a TRINITARIAN because of the Deluding Spirit sent to them they can't comprehend that. Thinker you sorrow my soul brother . peace and love ………………………gene
Gene,
I have never denied that the Father WAS greater than Him. Jesus has been exalted since then. The exaltation of Jesus really throws you in a tizzy. You don't know what to do with it except to deny it.Jesus said that God was His Father and His God. He NEVER said that God was His King or His Lord. Jesus is the King and the Lord.
thinker
GB,
If Jesus is your brother why do you teach what he does not teach?
Does he know those who go beyond his words and call God an intellect?To all………….. Here this parable……….There was once in a valley a flock of sheep and there were little lambs there also and they were playing in the meadows in the valley, there was this one little lamb that wanted to venture out into the forest a mischievous little lamb, and sitting on the side of the mountain was a Great Ram, whose eyes were gleaming and His Horns were glistening and when ever the little lamb would look at Him it always appeared as if the Great RAM was glaring at him and he would shrink behind his mother to hide. As he grew he became more curious and wanted to venture into the Forest and see what was in there, and one day he slipped away and went into the forest, and there were many things he never saw before, and while He was taking everything in , there came out of it a wolf and started to stalk and attacked Him, and while he was trying to escape the wolf, He saw the Great Ram come crashing through the forest and struck the wolf and killed it and the Lamb began to run for the meadow and his mother, and He hid behind his mother and looked over her back and saw the great ram staring at him with eyes a glaring and horns glistening . Now time went by and the Lamb again slipped away and went into the forest and there came out a bear and began to attack Him and the bear grabbed some of his wool puling it from him and there came again the Great Ram and smote the Bear causing it to let go of the lamb and he ran back to his mother again and hid and he looked up and saw the Great Ram whose eyes were a glaring and whose Horns Glistened and He was staring at Him , and as time went by again the lamb grow and again snacked of and went into the forest and this time a LION came out and attacked Him He tore His wool and riped His flesh and again the Great Ram came crashing through the forest and smote the lion on his side and trampled him with his feet and killed the lion, and the Lamb very week ran into the forest and came to a pond of water he was very thirsty and went to take a drink and as he bent down to drink He saw a GREAT RAM in the water that looked like the GREAT Ram he had seen on the mountain side, it eyes a glaring and it horns glistening and then he realized he had become exactly the same as the GREAT RAM . So he went back to the flock and went up on the side of the mountain and sat down and stared at the sheep fold and there He saw a foolish little lamb crouching behind his mothers back after he saw him, and he look at the GREAT RAM there with HIM and he smiled at him. He had become (EXACTLY) the SAME as The Great RAM, whose eyes were a glaring and whose Horns glistened . UNTIL WE ALL COME UNTO THE (FULL) MEASURE OF CHRIST.
PEACE AND LOVE TO YOU ALL………………………..GENE
Nick……….God is intellect the same as Spirit is and there are Seven Spirits or Intellect of GOD and they are with Power. Why do you think Jesus said (NO ONE) has seen GOD at (ANY) time, That statement also includes HIM. Its because He is Spirit and can not be physically seen. Jesus could only disclose Him ask yourself why?. And believe what Jesus said the words he told us were , its just that simple Nick. No adding to scripture Just understanding what it already says Brother.
peace and love………………..gene
Nick………Here is something also to think about……”A time will come when I will no longer teach you about GOD the FATHER in Proverbs, but will show you openly about the FATHER,” “and in that day you will ask me Nothing”. That tells us Jesus did not (totally) disclose the FATHER to US. But we are told in the days of these two Prophets the Mystery about GOD will be Known. You must not be locked to Jesus (ONLY) but to the SPIRIT, so you can hear what the (SPIRIT) says to the churches. Think about it Nick.
peace and love…………………gene
Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 01 2009,08:10) Quote (Gene @ Aug. 01 2009,06:21) Thinker ……….Show us where Jesus never said that the Father is (GREATER) the HIM then. Jesus is my brother (exactly like me) only without ever sinning. because the FATHER was With him at berth, and Keep Him from sinning. The difference between me and You is I am not and Idolater , I have ONLY ONE TRUE GOD , as Jesus said he did. Me and Jesus See the FATHER exactly the same I worship the FATHER ONLY and I also Honor Jesus MY brother , Whom the (FATHER) has Placed over Me and He watches me like a great Eagle , he is the great Sheppard of the Children of GOD the FATHER, we are in His custody, for safe Keeping by command of the FATHER< His FATHER and MY FATHER His GOD and MY GOD. How simple plain and clear , but for a TRINITARIAN because of the Deluding Spirit sent to them they can't comprehend that. Thinker you sorrow my soul brother . peace and love ………………………gene
Gene,
I have never denied that the Father WAS greater than Him. Jesus has been exalted since then. The exaltation of Jesus really throws you in a tizzy. You don't know what to do with it except to deny it.Jesus said that God was His Father and His God. He NEVER said that God was His King or His Lord. Jesus is the King and the Lord.
thinker
Thinker ……..Show us where Jesus is (equal) to the FATHER in POWER Now then. Jesus is and was always subject to the FATHER and will always be. Read what is written in Corinthians and you will have your answer, (It is evident that when he says all thing are subject unto him this does not include the one subjecting all thing unto him, (GOD), what part of that don't you understand. IMOpeace and love………………..gene
Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 01 2009,03:15) Quote (Gene @ Aug. 01 2009,03:02) Thinker…….Why do you ignore the simple clear words of Jesus to hold on to your False Trinitarian teachings?. Dump those false teachings and except the simple plain word of Jesus who said He could do (NOTHING) Himself and the FATHER in HIM does the WORKS. It amazes Us why you can even understand these simple things written. What you are teaching is in total contradiction of GOD the FATHER and Jesus Christ our brother. peace and love…………………gene
To All,
Yesterday Gene posted that Jesus is “lord” all small letters as if He is not greater than any man. Today he refers to Jesus simply as our “brother.” This is what the emphasis on the exaltation of Christ does to anti-trinitarians. It causes them to diminish Christ more than they did before. Christ is merely a “lord” and a brother now. He is not King of kings and Lord of lords.To Trinitarians,
Keep emphasizing the exaltation of Christ and Gene will eventually reduce Him to a mere sinner.thinker
Thinker ……the Lord Jesus Christ , is not the LORD GOD ALMIGHTY. so you trying to make it sound like i am belittling Jesus is Pure TRINITARIAN FOLLY> Jesus is ,was , and always will be subject to GOD the FATHER as all of GOD creation will also. ONE GOD , ONE mediator between GOD and Man the (MAN) Jesus Christ. This works for me, how about you it is what is written right?peace and love……………….gene
What a bunch of nonsense. Jesus is our Mediator and John would never say that He prayed to Him. However it is in the Name of Jesus that we pray to the Father. And Gene is right, about Lord and LORD. So many Trinitarians mix Scriptures up, for their belief. When will they ever see. I was one of you too, but ” Thanks to God” He let me see how wrong it is. And I sure hope you will soon too. Convincing others of wrong is not easy to do. I can talk to our Son until I am blue in the face, He is blind to it. Wake up Brothers.
Peace and Love IreneIrene………Each in His or Her own time, unless GOD the FATHER turns the light on, the room is darkened, take peace in knowing when the FATHER is ready He will begin to see. IMO
peace and love to you and Georg…………………….gene
Quote (Cindy @ Aug. 01 2009,14:25) What a bunch of nonsense. Jesus is our Mediator and John would never say that He prayed to Him. However it is in the Name of Jesus that we pray to the Father. And Gene is right, about Lord and LORD. So many Trinitarians mix Scriptures up, for their belief. When will they ever see. I was one of you too, but ” Thanks to God” He let me see how wrong it is. And I sure hope you will soon too. Convincing others of wrong is not easy to do. I can talk to our Son until I am blue in the face, He is blind to it. Wake up Brothers.
Peace and Love Irene
Irene,
You got it all wrong. If Christ is our Mediator then we must come to God THROUGH HIM. This is what a Mediator is. John clearly told us to pray to the Son of God.Quote I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life. And this is the confidence that we have toward him, that if we ask anything according to his will he hears us. And if we know that he hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests that we have asked of him. This clearly says that we are to ask for things from the Son of God and if we ask according to His will He hears us and will give it to us. You said it yourself. Jesus is the mediator. This means that we come to God THROUGH HIM.
When you denied the Catholic church you should not have thrown out the baby with the bathwater.
thinker
Cross
Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 10 2009,11:00) Quote (Cindy @ Aug. 01 2009,14:25) What a bunch of nonsense. Jesus is our Mediator and John would never say that He prayed to Him. However it is in the Name of Jesus that we pray to the Father. And Gene is right, about Lord and LORD. So many Trinitarians mix Scriptures up, for their belief. When will they ever see. I was one of you too, but ” Thanks to God” He let me see how wrong it is. And I sure hope you will soon too. Convincing others of wrong is not easy to do. I can talk to our Son until I am blue in the face, He is blind to it. Wake up Brothers.
Peace and Love Irene
Irene,
You got it all wrong. If Christ is our Mediator then we must come to God THROUGH HIM. This is what a Mediator is. John clearly told us to pray to the Son of God.Quote I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life. And this is the confidence that we have toward him, that if we ask anything according to his will he hears us. And if we know that he hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests that we have asked of him. This clearly says that we are to ask for things from the Son of God and if we ask according to His will He hears us and will give it to us. You said it yourself. Jesus is the mediator. This means that we come to God THROUGH HIM.
When you denied the Catholic church you should not have thrown out the baby with the bathwater.
thinker
Cross
no, I don't have it wrong. God cannot look on Sin and that is why we have the Christ who died for our sins, and through Him, we can now go directly to the Throne of our Heavenly Father. And He will forgive our Sins, not like in the O.T. times. We do not pray to the Son of God. We pray in His name, there is a difference. I don't think that John told us to pray to Jesus. I think Nick and Gene are right. We don't ask of Jesus Anything. We ask in His name. That is diffrent then what you are saying. I kind of have to laugh because when you say that He is our Mediator and ask in His name, that nullifies the trinity. If God is 3in1 you don't have to do that. So what is it? Are you sure you belief in a trinity?
IreneIrene said:
Quote no, I don't have it wrong. God cannot look on Sin and that is why we have the Christ who died for our sins, and through Him, we can now go directly to the Throne of our Heavenly Father. And He will forgive our Sins, not like in the O.T. times. We do not pray to the Son of God. We pray in His name, there is a difference. I don't think that John told us to pray to Jesus. I think Nick and Gene are right. We don't ask of Jesus Anything. We ask in His name. That is diffrent then what you are saying. I kind of have to laugh because when you say that He is our Mediator and ask in His name, that nullifies the trinity. If God is 3in1 you don't have to do that. So what is it? Are you sure you belief in a trinity?
Irene
Irene,
It is not the heavenly Father's throne alone. It is the Son's throne too. The Father said so:Quote But to the Son He says: “ Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”You say that “God” is just a title here. Are you going to say that the Son's throne is just a title too? You believe Jesus when He said that the Father WAS greater than Him. But when the Father says that the Son is “God” and that the throne is His you do not believe the Father. You say it's only a “title.” You call the Father a liar. How is the Father your God if you do not believe Him?
You have it wrong. You cannot approach the Father directly. You must go through the Son. The throne of grace is the Son's throne. He is King of kings and Lord of lords. You said yourself that the Son is the Mediator. Then you deny it when I show you what it means. You're talking out of two sides of your mouth. If you do not honor the Son then your claim to honor the Father is false.
Nick and Gene are dead wrong! They put Jesus' word above the Father's word and so do you.
thinker
Thinker……..Nether ME or NICK or IRENE do that, It is the TRINITARIAN DOCTRINE the MAKES JESUS EQUAL WITH THE FATHER NOT US. even though Jesus said the Father was (GREATER) then He. Thinker making another GOD is an ACT OF IDOLATRY, all trinitarians need to think about that while there is still time to. Turning Jesus into a GOD is Changing Him into the MAN OF SIN, and He will abolish that Idolatrous teaching when He returns as 2Ths2 says he will. IMO
peace and love…………………….gene
Quote (Gene @ Aug. 10 2009,14:31) Thinker……..Nether ME or NICK or IRENE do that, It is the TRINITARIAN DOCTRINE the MAKES JESUS EQUAL WITH THE FATHER NOT US. even though Jesus said the Father was (GREATER) then He. Thinker making another GOD is an ACT OF IDOLATRY, all trinitarians need to think about that while there is still time to. Turning Jesus into a GOD is Changing Him into the MAN OF SIN, and He will abolish that Idolatrous teaching when He returns as 2Ths2 says he will. IMO peace and love…………………….gene
Gene,
If worshiping Jesus is an act of idolatry then the Father is condemned. He commanded the angels to worship the Son (Heb. 1:6). But you and Nick deny what the Father said. You two always find a way to get around what the Father says. The Father called the Son “God” and said to Him, “YOU laid the foundation of the earth and the heavens are the work of YOUR hands.”There it is! The Father said that the Son is the Creator. Yet you deny that the Son is pre-existent. You deny the Father's words. You guys pick and choose which scriptures you will believe and which you will discard. For example, you accept that Jesus said that the Father was greater than Him. But you deny that the Father gave all judgment to Him so that all men should honor the Son EVEN AS they honor the Father.
You tell us that Jesus said, “I do not honor Myself.” Yet in the next breath He said “It is the Father who honors Me.” So the One who WAS greater than Him honored Him. Yet you don't honor Him. You don't accept the Father's word about His Son and you don't do what the Father did in honoring Him.
How can you expect to convince me that anti-trinitarianism is right without dealing with ALL the scriptures? WJ and I deal with all of it. You and Nick do not. You guys pick and choose! You pick and choose which of Jesus' words you will believe and you completely deny the Father's words about His Son
Answer this: How can worshiping Jesus be idolatry if He is the Son of the Father? Israel worshiped the gods of the nations around them. Trinitarians do not. Trinitarians worship the God that God Himself gave them. God gave us Jesus to worship and honor. And you spit in God's face! You say, “Jesus is not my God.” BUT HE IS YOUR GOD. The Father said to His Son, “Your throne O God is forever and ever.” This means that jesus is YOUR God!
You have mislead good people like Irene. Because of you she says that “God is only a title and nothing more.” But the Father said also that the throne is the Son's. Is that also just a “title?” Am I to believe that the Father Himself calls Him “God” but He is not God? Am I to accept that the Father says to His Son “Your throne” and He is not King?
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 10 2009,19:24) Quote (Gene @ Aug. 10 2009,14:31) Thinker……..Nether ME or NICK or IRENE do that, It is the TRINITARIAN DOCTRINE the MAKES JESUS EQUAL WITH THE FATHER NOT US. even though Jesus said the Father was (GREATER) then He. Thinker making another GOD is an ACT OF IDOLATRY, all trinitarians need to think about that while there is still time to. Turning Jesus into a GOD is Changing Him into the MAN OF SIN, and He will abolish that Idolatrous teaching when He returns as 2Ths2 says he will. IMO peace and love…………………….gene
Gene,
If worshiping Jesus is an act of idolatry then the Father is condemned. He commanded the angels to worship the Son (Heb. 1:6). But you and Nick deny what the Father said. You two always find a way to get around what the Father says. The Father called the Son “God” and said to Him, “YOU laid the foundation of the earth and the heavens are the work of YOUR hands.”There it is! The Father said that the Son is the Creator. Yet you deny that the Son is -existent. You deny the Father's words. You guys pick and choose which scriptures you will believe and which you will discard. For example, you accept that Jesus said that the Father was greater than Him. But you deny that the Father gave all judgment to Him so that all men should honor the Son EVEN AS they honor the Father.
You tell us that Jesus said, “I do not honor Myself.” Yet in the next breath He said “It is the Father who honors Me.” So the One who WAS greater than Him honored Him. Yet you don't honor Him. You don't accept the Father's word about His Son and you don't do what the Father did in honoring Him.
How can you expect to convince me that anti-trinitarianism is right without dealing with ALL the scriptures? WJ and I deal with all of it. You and Nick do not. You guys pick and choose! You pick and choose which of Jesus' words you will believe and you completely deny the Father's words about His Son
Answer this: How can worshiping Jesus be idolatry if He is the Son of the Father? Israel worshiped the gods of the nations around them. Trinitarians do not. Trinitarians worship the God that God Himself gave them. God gave us Jesus to worship and honor. And you spit in God's face! You say, “Jesus is not my God.” BUT HE IS YOUR GOD. The Father said to His Son, “Your throne O God is forever and ever.” This means that jesus is YOUR God!
You have mislead good people like Irene. Because of you she says that “God is only a title and nothing more.” But the Father said also that the throne is the Son's. Is that also just a “title?” Am I to believe that the Father Himself calls Him “God” but He is not God? Am I to accept that the Father says to His Son “Your throne” and He is not King?
thinker
Nobody has misled Irene!!! Nobody has told me to say that God is a title!!!! You are misleading and no one else. When I say that God is a title that takes nothing away from ether the Father or His Son. The Father is called also Jehovah and the Son Yeshiva. That is their names in the old Testament ore the Word and God. So do you know why? The translators did not want to misspell their names, so they called them God. That is mainly why I call both God. A lot of people have problems when it comes to believing that Jesus who was the Word in the Old Testament is called God. He preexisted His Birth as a Human Being. We are also called the Son's of God. So what should we do with that? So when I say that God is a title it goes for the Son's of God too. We are the Family of God are we not? We are the adopted Son's of God. I have no problem with calling Jesus the Son of God. As far as Honoring Jesus does not say that we should worship Him does it? Worship we do the Father. We do Honor Jesus. He sits next to the Father and deserves all Honor as King of Kings and Lord of Lords. Again when we see LORD in capital letters it is the Father. We see that in the Old Testament mainly.
Peace and Love IreneThuinker………We honor Jesus TO THE GLORY OF GOD THE FATHER, we only WORSHIP GOD THE FATHER NOT JESUS, when we submit to his authority we understand that GOD THE FATHER, has given him that authority, so we are really submitting to the FATHERS rule. Jesus is our brother and we are JOint Heirs with Him, He is (NOT) OUR GOD) HE IS OUR (BROTHER) We ONLY worship GOD and HIM ALONE, because there is (NO) GOD besides HIM as HE HIMSELF SAID, and that is who Jesus also worshiped by the way. Jesus was smart enough to know there was (ONLY) ONE TRUE GOD, saying “FOR THOU ART THE (ONLY) TRUE GOD”. Your denial of these scriptures is a stumbling block in you understanding. IMO
peace and love……………………..gene
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