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1 John 5:13-15:
13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life. 14 And this is the confidence that we have toward him, that if we ask anything according to his will he hears us. 15 And if we know that he hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests that we have asked of him.
Jesus told His disciples to pray to the Father in His name. But John told us to pray to Jesus Himself. Is it possible that the word to His disciples to pray in His name was applicable only at that time and that after His exaltation we pray directly to Him? Or maybe we can do one or the other or both?
One thing is clear. John said that if we ask anything of Him, that is, the Son of God, if it be according to His will, He hears us and we have that thing which we asked of Him.
It is clear what John said. The question is was he an idolater?
thinker
Hi TT,
You get your HIMS mixed up.Those who are one with Jesus are in the Will of God and God listens to us..
Clearly the proximity between trinity and idolatry is becoming plain to you.
As you said in the original post, Christ, showed us how to pray, ie. to the father asking in his name.
Use that example as how to pray and you'll see that John will never say pray to Christ. I think Nick has put it as clear as posibleQuote (Nick Hassan @ July 20 2009,07:05) Hi TT,
You get your HIMS mixed up.Those who are one with Jesus are in the Will of God and God listens to us..
Clearly the proximity between trinity and idolatry is becoming plain to you.
Nope! I do not have the “Hims” mixed up. The pronouns all refer back to the Son of God. It's clear. John instructed us to pray to Jesus.Sorry Nick. Plain English refutes you.
thinker
Quote (datguy @ July 20 2009,08:14) As you said in the original post, Christ, showed us how to pray, ie. to the father asking in his name.
Use that example as how to pray and you'll see that John will never say pray to Christ. I think Nick has put it as clear as posible
dg,
I did NOT say that Christ showed US how to pray. I said that He showed His disciples how to pray. He told them to pray to the Father in His name. That was when He was still present with them. It is John who told US how to pray. He said that if we ask anything according to the will of the Son of God HE will give it to us.Jesus is exalted now. He said that He has “ALL authority in heaven and in earth.” Therefore, it is within His own right to grant or deny what we ask. But if we ask according to His will He will grant it.
It's clear bro!
thinker
Read it again Nick. It clearly says that it is the Son of God whom we ask for things. You said I have my “hims” mixed up. Show me.
thinker
Hi TT,
Desperation to justify a false foundation you will always see what you want to see.
Probably none here can show you anything.Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 20 2009,22:27) Hi TT,
Desperation to justify a false foundation you will always see what you want to see.
Probably none here can show you anything.
Nick,
If I am the one so desperate, then you cane easily show me that I have my “hims” mixed up. So why won't you show me?thinker
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 19 2009,18:48) Hi TT,
A misread.
The Son does not have a will separate from his God.
Hi NHDo you realize you just claimed Jesus as being God?
WJ
Quote (thethinker @ July 20 2009,10:54) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 20 2009,22:27) Hi TT,
Desperation to justify a false foundation you will always see what you want to see.
Probably none here can show you anything.
Nick,
If I am the one so desperate, then you cane easily show me that I have my “hims” mixed up. So why won't you show me?thinker
Hi JackThey claim that they have fellowship with the Father and the Son, however in reality that can not be so, if they do not pray to Jesus also!
You cannot have fellowship with someone you do not communicate to. And you cannot communicate to Jesus apart from prayer!
It is the fear of commiting Idolatry to them, for they know that we are to only pray to God, yet we find in the scriptures men praying and calling on Jesus.
WJ
thinker………..your confusing the Spirit with the person, GOD gave revelation to Jesus to show John who showed it to the churches, Notice Jesus said clearly, whosoever has ears to hear let him hear what the (SPIRIT) says to the Churches. The Spirit is not Jesus it is what he has, GOD gave Jesus the word to give to John, but you are making them out to be Jesus (OWN) words. What you Trinitarians don't understand is that the Spirit of GOD is a common dominator, among all true Christians, and that includes Jesus Himself. Imo
peace and love to you and yours……………………….gene
Quote (Gene @ July 21 2009,04:41) thinker………..your confusing the Spirit with the person, GOD gave revelation to Jesus to show John who showed it to the churches, Notice Jesus said clearly, whosoever has ears to hear let him hear what the (SPIRIT) says to the Churches. The Spirit is not Jesus it is what he has, GOD gave Jesus the word to give to John, but you are making them out to be Jesus (OWN) words. What you Trinitarians don't understand is that the Spirit of GOD is a common dominator, among all true Christians, and that includes Jesus Himself. Imo peace and love to you and yours……………………….gene
Gene,
What has this to do with this topic?
You guys are really stumbling over 1 John 5:13-15. Nick says I have my “hims” mixed up but he can't show me. Now you reply with a point that is totally unrelated. The apostle John said that if we ask anything according to the will of the Son of God HE hears us. 13. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life. 14 And this is the confidence that we have toward him, that if we ask anything according to his will he hears us. 15 And if we know that he hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests that we have asked of him.
Note that John said that if we ask for something from the Son of God we have confidence toward Him.
thinker
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 21 2009,04:15) Quote (thethinker @ July 20 2009,10:54) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 20 2009,22:27) Hi TT,
Desperation to justify a false foundation you will always see what you want to see.
Probably none here can show you anything.
Nick,
If I am the one so desperate, then you cane easily show me that I have my “hims” mixed up. So why won't you show me?thinker
Hi JackThey claim that they have fellowship with the Father and the Son, however in reality that can not be so, if they do not pray to Jesus also!
You cannot have fellowship with someone you do not communicate to. And you cannot communicate to Jesus apart from prayer!
It is the fear of commiting Idolatry to them, for they know that we are to only pray to God, yet we find in the scriptures men praying and calling on Jesus.
WJ
WJ,
Yes indeed! One cannot have fellowship with Jesus without talking to Him. Anti-trinitarians are trying to guard against idolatry as you say. But they commit idolatry anyway because they refuse to worship the true God on His own terms. His terms are: Glorify My Son!thinker
thinker……….The reason He Hears us is because it's the (SAME) Spirit we Communicate to him and GOD the Father with. Are we who have that (SAME) Spirit of the FATHER in us, as Jesus does GOD'S, as God is also. Being a Child of the ONE and (ONLY) TRUE GOD , does not equate equality. Jesus did not think to (ROB) GOD to make himself equal with Him, but you trinitarians seem to think he does. GOD'S Spirit is the common denominator that cause Godly intellect and makes us one with Him and Jesus. Fact is all who have GOD the Fathers Spirit in them have GOD in them as well as each other and Jesus also. GOD is SPIRIT (INTELLECT) and will be in all and through all. But6 to Us there is (ONLY) ONE TRUE GOD. Not two or three triune anythings, one GOD in ALL and Though ALL. Thinker i love you man, but you need to drop the TRINITY garbage so you can see clear brother. IMO
peace and love to you and yours brother………………………..gene
Quote (Gene @ July 21 2009,06:22) thinker……….The reason He Hears us is because it's the (SAME) Spirit we Communicate to him and GOD the Father with. Are we who have that (SAME) Spirit of the FATHER in us, as Jesus does GOD'S, as God is also. Being a Child of the ONE and (ONLY) TRUE GOD , does not equate equality. Jesus did not think to (ROB) GOD to make himself equal with Him, but you trinitarians seem to think he does. GOD'S Spirit is the common denominator that cause Godly intellect and makes us one with Him and Jesus. Fact is all who have GOD the Fathers Spirit in them have GOD in them as well as each other and Jesus also. GOD is SPIRIT (INTELLECT) and will be in all and through all. But6 to Us there is (ONLY) ONE TRUE GOD. Not two or three triune anythings, one GOD in ALL and Though ALL. Thinker i love you man, but you need to drop the TRINITY garbage so you can see clear brother. IMO peace and love to you and yours brother………………………..gene
Gene,
You're engaging in double talk. You admit that Jesus “hears us” and then try to explain it away. Look at these facts:1. The Father has delivered ALL THINGS into the Son's hands.
2. The Son has ALL AUTHORITY in heaven and in earth.
3. Jesus said ALL that the Father has “IS MINE.”
4. Jesus has inherited ALL THINGS.The reason He hears us and can give us what we ask for is because He has ALL AUTHORITY and possesses ALL THINGS.
thinker
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