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Quote (CatholicApologist @ Aug. 26 2009,13:32) Quote Did Jesus die on a cross? If not, then the Greek manuscripts we have must have been tampered with. Um…but there is still time for you to ask Mohammad.
(joke…no…seriously…don't ask Mohammad)
Hey CA,I personally believe a lot has been “tampered” with!!
This is why I have lost a lot of faith in the bible. Does your Eastern Catholic religion explain any of the tampering? Does it have outside information that fills in the blanks caused by said tampering?
I find it very difficult to base my morals on a foundation that seems to be….tampered with.
Love,
MandyDavid Since We belonged to the Catholic Church, I do know that we used to venerate the Cross on good Friday. I now don't think that it is right to do and very wrong. Even good Friday is wrong . If you figure 3 days and 3 night does not make it. You see at Passover time we have the Days of Unleavened Bread. That falls on a Thursday and according to Gods Calendar the new day starts at evening, So Christ was crucified on Wednesday before night, The next day was a annual Sabbath Day which all Jews kept. So Christ was resurrected on Saturday evening. And when Maria and Mary Magdalene came to the grave early Sunday morning, He already had risen.
The reason I know all these things is that we used to keep all of God's Holy Days, in the World W. Church of God. Unfortunately they too went back to keeping pagan doctrines like the trinity, after Mr. Armstrong died. Many have said that that Church was a cult. I did not think that at all. Nobody held a gun to our head. to tell us what to believe. I find it really sad what happened to that Church. Because of it there are so many splinter Groups that call themselves the true Church. We my Husband and I have learned many new truths since all of that happened. That was in 1994. It is now already 14 years ago, WoW.
Peace and Love IreneQuote We my Husband and I have learned many new truths since all of that happened. Did you know that most scholars now agree that the cross, as an artistic reference to the passion event, cannot be found prior to the time of Constantine.”—Ante Pacem—Archaeological Evidence of Church Life Before Constantine (1985), by Professor Graydon F. Snyder, page 27.
Here is one theory:
“The representation of Christ’s redemptive death on Golgotha does not occur in the symbolic art of the first Christian centuries. The early Christians, influenced by the Old Testament prohibition of graven images, were reluctant to depict even the instrument of the Lord’s Passion.”—New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967), Vol. IV, p. 486.Here we have another one of those odd changes. The earliest Christians believing strongly one way and a couple hundred years later, a change.
hmmmm.
I will tell you something I read somewhere in some early church writtings, its that the cross instead is the opened arms of Jesus as wings open wide to take his people safe to himself
Karmarie………..the cross is a (PAGAN) Symbol and comes from Tammazue and ancient Egyptian symbol of a reincarnated GOD. Look on all the old Egyptian Hieroglyphics and you can see a Priest with a Cross that look like a T with a loop on top of it, Tammazue was a Illegitimate son born to Simmoramos conceived by her own son and Her, But he died, and Simmoramos, the queen said He reappeared ever Dec 25 on the solace in the form of a green bay tree, And she commanded everyone to go and get a green bay tree and bring it into their House and decorate it with Gold and silver ornaments in Honor of He dead Son. (Christmas) Today. The sign of the CROSS is strictly a Pagan symbol passed off by pagans and has nothing to do with true Christianity , Constantine was the first to make the symbol a Christian symbol. He was told by a Bishop if he put the sign of the cross on his soldiers shields He would win the up coming battle and he did and win the battle, and became Emperor Maximus of all ROME and then declared Christianity the Empires religion the cross its symbol and required all pagans to convert to it. He was a pure Pagan Emperor, who was not even baptized until He was almost dead , because he wanted to continues His fornications , so he had a priest follow him around and when He was almost dead Baptize Him. It was about 15 minutes before he died.
peace and love to you and yours……………………gene
Quote (gollamudi @ Aug. 27 2009,17:46) A sigh….
I too find it like that.
Love to you sis
Adam
Adam………Do not become discouraged Brother, no one said it was going to be easy. Continue to use the SPIRIT GOD has given YOU to express sound teachings. IMOPeace and love to you and yours Adam………………….gene
Quote (Gene @ Aug. 30 2009,06:05) Karmarie………..the cross is a (PAGAN) Symbol and comes from Tammazue and ancient Egyptian symbol of a reincarnated GOD. Look on all the old Egyptian Hieroglyphics and you can see a Priest with a Cross that look like a T with a loop on top of it, Tammazue was a Illegitimate son born to Simmoramos conceived by her own son and Her, But he died, and Simmoramos, the queen said He reappeared ever Dec 25 on the solace in the form of a green bay tree, And she commanded everyone to go and get a green bay tree and bring it into their House and decorate it with Gold and silver ornaments in Honor of He dead Son. (Christmas) Today. The sign of the CROSS is strictly a Pagan symbol passed off by pagans and has nothing to do with true Christianity , Constantine was the first to make the symbol a Christian symbol. He was told by a Bishop if he put the sign of the cross on his soldiers shields He would win the up coming battle and he did and win the battle, and became Emperor Maximus of all ROME and then declared Christianity the Empires religion the cross its symbol and required all pagans to convert to it. He was a pure Pagan Emperor, who was not even baptized until He was almost dead , because he wanted to continues His fornications , so he had a priest follow him around and when He was almost dead Baptize Him. It was about 15 minutes before he died. peace and love to you and yours……………………gene
Thankyou for that information Gene. Its shocking.Some more fun quotes that are shocking.
“Various objects, dating from periods long anterior to the Christian era, have been found, marked with crosses of different designs, in almost every part of the old world. India, Syria, Persia and Egypt have all yielded numberless examples . . . The use of the cross as a religious symbol in pre-Christian times and among non-Christian peoples may probably be regarded as almost universal, and in very many cases it was connected with some form of nature worship.”—Encyclopædia Britannica (1946), Vol. 6, p. 753.
“The shape of the [two-beamed cross] had its origin in ancient Chaldea, and was used as the symbol of the god Tammuz (being in the shape of the mystic Tau, the initial of his name) in that country and in adjacent lands, including Egypt. By the middle of the 3rd cent. A.D. the churches had either departed from, or had travestied, certain doctrines of the Christian faith. In order to increase the prestige of the apostate ecclesiastical system pagans were received into the churches apart from regeneration by faith, and were permitted largely to retain their pagan signs and symbols. Hence the Tau or T, in its most frequent form, with the cross-piece lowered, was adopted to stand for the cross of Christ.”—An Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words (London, 1962), W. E. Vine, p. 256.
“It is strange, yet unquestionably a fact, that in ages long before the birth of Christ, and since then in lands untouched by the teaching of the Church, the Cross has been used as a sacred symbol. . . . The Greek Bacchus, the Tyrian Tammuz, the Chaldean Bel, and the Norse Odin, were all symbolised to their votaries by a cruciform device.”—The Cross in Ritual, Architecture, and Art (London, 1900), G. S. Tyack, p. 1.
“The cross in the form of the ‘Crux Ansata’ . . . was carried in the hands of the Egyptian priests and Pontiff kings as the symbol of their authority as priests of the Sun god and was called ‘the Sign of Life.’”—The Worship of the Dead (London, 1904), Colonel J. Garnier, p. 226.
“Various figures of crosses are found everywhere on Egyptian monuments and tombs, and are considered by many authorities as symbolical either of the phallus [a representation of the male sex organ] or of coition. . . . In Egyptian tombs the crux ansata [cross with a circle or handle on top] is found side by side with the phallus.”—A Short History of Sex-Worship (London, 1940), H. Cutner, pp. 16, 17; see also The Non-Christian Cross, p. 183.
“These crosses were used as symbols of the Babylonian sun-god, and are first seen on a coin of Julius Cæsar, 100-44 B.C., and then on a coin struck by Cæsar’s heir (Augustus), 20 B.C. On the coins of Constantine the most frequent symbol is [see book] ; but the same symbol is used without the surrounding circle, and with the four equal arms vertical and horizontal; and this was the symbol specially venerated as the ‘Solar Wheel’. It should be stated that Constantine was a sun-god worshipper, and would not enter the ‘Church’ till some quarter of a century after the legend of his having seen such a cross in the heavens.”—The Companion Bible, Appendix No. 162; see also The Non-Christian Cross, pp. 133-141.
So, now we have “motive.” Accept this extremely popular symbol and bring more people into the churches.
Quote (Gene @ Aug. 30 2009,06:05) Karmarie………..the cross is a (PAGAN) Symbol and comes from Tammazue and ancient Egyptian symbol of a reincarnated GOD. Look on all the old Egyptian Hieroglyphics and you can see a Priest with a Cross that look like a T with a loop on top of it, Tammazue was a Illegitimate son born to Simmoramos conceived by her own son and Her, But he died, and Simmoramos, the queen said He reappeared ever Dec 25 on the solace in the form of a green bay tree, And she commanded everyone to go and get a green bay tree and bring it into their House and decorate it with Gold and silver ornaments in Honor of He dead Son. (Christmas) Today. The sign of the CROSS is strictly a Pagan symbol passed off by pagans and has nothing to do with true Christianity , Constantine was the first to make the symbol a Christian symbol. He was told by a Bishop if he put the sign of the cross on his soldiers shields He would win the up coming battle and he did and win the battle, and became Emperor Maximus of all ROME and then declared Christianity the Empires religion the cross its symbol and required all pagans to convert to it. He was a pure Pagan Emperor, who was not even baptized until He was almost dead , because he wanted to continues His fornications , so he had a priest follow him around and when He was almost dead Baptize Him. It was about 15 minutes before he died. peace and love to you and yours……………………gene
You can't possibly know where anything originated from, just like you can't tell me where the first cheeto was invented.Especially when we had pyramids in 3 of the major continents at a time when neither one could cross over and communicate with the other.
I agree the cross should not be esteemed as it is, but it's not like the focus of the cross, is the cross itself…the focus is Jesus…
I'm not catholic, but I remember once praying in front of a life sized cross that The Church brought in, for a special service….
It's one thing to believe Jesus died on the cross, but i promise it is way more emotional to actually see a real cross, and picturing the torture he went threw for my sins.
But yes I do agree, the symbolism of The Cross in The Church should be removed…I don't even like churches or denominations…I think the truth in christ's mission was to bring us together in brotherhood as oppose to fitting church into your Sunday routine…(which sunday is not the sabbath)
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