Was christ born on december 25

Participant

Quote (georg @ Nov. 11 2009,17:56)

Quote (Jodi Lee @ Nov. 11 2009,16:17)

Quote (georg @ Nov. 11 2009,04:21)

Quote (Gene @ Nov. 11 2009,03:32)

Irene………I enjoy the songs of Christ berth , but i do agree with you that Dec 25, was originally a pagan day of worship. It had to do with their custom of rebirth and started with the pagan teachings of Tammazu, Simoramos the queen said she saw her illegitimate son Tammazu who had died came back to life in the form of a greenbay tree at the time of the suns aqunox Dec 25 , and commanded everyone to go and get a greebay tree out of the forest and decorate it with gold and silver ornaments to celebrate his rebirth, Christmas is PURE PAGAN in orgins. Still like the songs though specially about the berth of Jesus. IMO

love and peace to you and Georg……………………..gene

I agree with you a 100% this knowledge we received of the Sun-God some over 25 years ago and since 1985 have not had a tree or decoration on our House. Christmas songs I like too, but knowing who is really behind all of it, spoils it for me. I always have mixed feelings around this time of the year. Knowing that God hated Heathen Holidays I too have to do the same, as a Christian. But again to some it does not matter. But the question is always in my mind, does God. And what does God say if you are not sure, you should not do it. And what if you know it and still do it? That my friend, I don't understand. To say I just like it, and go along with everybody? No, no. I have never been able to do so. I always have searched the things of God and not of Heathen or Pagans. Also some Scriptures I think in Jeremiah talks about going out and cutting down a tree and deck them with gold and silver. God said not to do so. I don't.
Peace and Love Irene

Hello Irene,

I think in Jeremiah 10 if you keep reading you will see that the chapter is referring to carved images, a tree that has been cut down, carved and then dipped in gold and silver. I believe the point is we should absolutely not worship False Idols. I believe that the scripture speaks for itself in showing such, and that the World Wide Church of God was really pushing it, trying to say it was referring to what became to be called the Christmas tree. Since most Christians worship Jesus as the One True God, their worship during Christmas is that of a false idol, and they are no different to those whom YHWH disliked in Jeremiah….they are idolater worshipers.

Those who worshiped false idols were IGNORANT, and that ignorance was dysfunctional. YHWH is functional and His ways are functional. Most Christians are ignorant IMO, they blindly follow religious tradition, and thus the lies that they believe profit them nothing.

I do not believe that God dislikes people bringing trees into their homes and decorating them. Many people bring Christmas trees into their homes and decorate them out of enjoyment from the beauty of the tree and the fun of decorating it, with having absolutely nothing to do with any sort of worship. Wedding rings are from pagan origin, so is hand shaking, and bringing flowers into the home and putting them in a vase. What is significant is the BELIEF BEHIND these traditions (false worship of a god) not necessarily the traditions themselves IMO.

I believe this can be applied to your enjoyment of music as well Irene. You say you like the song “Morning has Broken”, however the singer of that song was at the time not a Christian and a few years later he actually became a Muslim.

Do you like the SONG because of where it originated or because of whom it originated from? No, you like it because you can apply the words to your OWN FAITH!!

I love trees, and I love bringing a Noble Fir into my home in the winter time. I do not worship trees, nor do I worship Christ as the one true God. I also enjoy bringing other things of nature into my home, I have an awesome collection of cool rocks, thousands of sea shells, and many plants. I also have carved images of turtles and elephants. None of these things I worship. When I bring a tree into my home in winter I don't think YHWH has a problem with it. He knows that I enjoy it because it's a creation of His!

Peace to you and Georg, Jodi

Jodi! That is your opinion. I am under another opinion and most of the W.W.Church of God believed that it was wrong to bring a tree into the Home and decorated around the time of the Sun-God”s Birthday. If it would be Christ's Birthday, you know what, I would go along with it. But knowing this, I just can't. And I will not. We happen to be able to figure out when Christ's Birthday is, and it just makes no sense to me what mainstream Christianity is doing at this time. The first Christians never kept such pagan Festivals. If you look into the Encyclopedia Britannica it tells you all about that, along with what Christianity is doing today. IMO Wether God likes it, you really believe He is O.K. with celebrating His Birthday on the Sun Gods Birthday? IMO I don't think so. But only time will tell, I always say.
Peace and Love Irene

Good Morning Irene,

I was speaking of bringing a tree into the home and decorating it, I was not speaking of Christmas itself and celebrating Christ's birthday. If it were truly Christ's birthday that would not CHANGE the fact that pagans used evergreens for their worship, so I am confused as to why, if it were really Christ's birthday that you would then see it as o.k. to follow pagan traditions that were morphed into Catholic ones?

I think Jesus probably just shakes his head at all the baby Jesus displays everywhere in the winter, maybe with a little sarcastic chuckle. I don't think it is an evil gesture to want to celebrate the birth of Christ, after all, it was a rather significant birth and the beginning of many fulfilled promises made by YHWH. The birth itself is something we can rejoice at. December 25th however was set forth through deception, and it was established by the Catholic Church!! That is enough for me to have problems with it. I think YHWH looks at the fruit that is produced out of such displays as the nativity scene. Since most look upon the scene as worship to a baby god, He is very unhappy. Just like the Christmas tree, it's not the tree itself, it's the personal view of the tree or the nativity scene that creates a problem.

Personally I have a hard time with the very word Christmas. We are talking about the Catholic's ceremonies and rituals to relive the death of Jesus on the cross…..Christ's Mass! You say merry Christmas you are saying Merry to Christ's Death! How STUPID can we all be? The check out clerk says Merry Christmas, and we say Merry Christmas back……Merry what….. for what, I say??

Pagans were NOT given the truth of YHWH, they were left to their OWN imaginations to establish truth. People naturally worshiped the sun because the sun is a huge component that brings us life. To worship a sun god was
not EVIL, it was ignorant and dysfunctional. It makes complete sense to see WHY in winter people who did not have the truth of our Creator would want to worship the sun.

What does not make sense to me is why the celebration of Christ’s Birthday became to be called Christ’s Mass, or Christ’s sacrificial death?

November 11, 2009 at 5:33 pm#156048

Participant

I don't think it matters at all that December 25th is some fake god's birthday in relation to the day people celebrate the birth of Christ. No true sun-god no true birthday, just a made up birthday by some ignorant folks.

YHWH does not like people worshiping that which is not real, it is dysfunctional.

YHWH does not like people worshiping Jesus as the one true God, because he is not, and therefore it is dysfunctional as well.

It's actually rather fitting for those who celebrate their god Jesus Christ's birthday on the same day that others worshiped a fake god's birthday….isn't it? It's rather ironic!

November 11, 2009 at 5:36 pm#156049

GeneBalthrop

Participant

Jodi…….I also believe an Idol is not an Idol unless perceived in the mind as such. A tree is simply a tree, and decorating it is just decorating it, a pine tree certainly does smell good. I think some times we who know the origins feel we are participating in the false practices of the pagans, by doing the same things they did. However you point is well taken, people today do (NOT) view a Christmas tree as a the reincarnation of Tammazu, they have (NO) knowledge of that in most cases. However GOD did say the customs of the People (pagans) were vain. Let everyone be convince in their own minds of what they are doing. If you perceive it as sin then it would be a sin if they do it. IMO

Jodi good to see your posts again…………love and peace to you and yours…………………gene

November 11, 2009 at 7:33 pm#156059

Participant

Quote (Jodi Lee @ Nov. 12 2009,04:33)

YHWH does not like people worshiping that which is not real, it is dysfunctional.

YHWH does not like people worshiping Jesus as the one true God, because he is not, and therefore it is dysfunctional as well.

It's actually rather fitting for those who celebrate their god Jesus Christ's birthday on the same day that others worshiped a fake god's birthday….isn't it? It's rather ironic!

Jodi! Sorry Jodi, I don't find it ironic, I find it sinful, since God hates Heathen Holiday. Also if I know ad then still do it, is twice as bad IMO I read Gene's Post below and I have to agree with Him, so therefore since I know what that represents, I will not worship Jesus on that day. His Birthday is in September and I will get more information on the exact day when I figure it out with Georg. And Georg agrees with me.
Peace and Love to you and yours, Irene

November 11, 2009 at 9:22 pm#156070

Participant

And then there are those of us who can sing this song and be in awe of the event and the babe in the manger.

[FLASH=340,285]http://[/FLASH]

I first heard this song in church and by that time I had my fourth baby boy. I was overcome with emotion because I could so relate to Mary as a mother of her firstborn son. I wondered about the amazing plans that God had in-store for my boys. I worship the Son of God as the only Begotten God who is the real deal…no fake Son of God…no dysfunction in that. The event was real…angels showed up to celebrate.

Peace and joy,
Kathi

November 11, 2009 at 9:42 pm#156071

Worshipping Jesus

Participant

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 11 2009,16:22)

And then there are those of us who can sing this song and be in awe of the event and the babe in the manger.

[FLASH=340,285]http://[/FLASH]

Peace and joy,
Kathi

Kathi

Great song!~

Watch out for they may start accusing you and the song writer for praying to Mary!

November 11, 2009 at 9:47 pm#156072

Participant

Hi Keith,
I admire Mary but don't pray to her. If accusations come then we know the “accuser” is behind it and so we can choose to worry about the accusations or turn them into clay pigeons and blast them

Enjoy the season,
Kathi

November 11, 2009 at 10:44 pm#156077

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 12 2009,08:42)

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 11 2009,16:22)

And then there are those of us who can sing this song and be in awe of the event and the babe in the manger.

[FLASH=340,285]http://[/FLASH]

Peace and joy,
Kathi

Kathi

Great song!~

Watch out for they may start accusing you and the song writer for praying to Mary!

So you think that Christ was born on Christmas day, or not? You know I am not accusing anybody, all have to do what they seem right in their eyes. But on the other hand you and others should except what I and someone else know about when Christ was born, and not worship Him on a Sun-Gods Birthday. It is up to each one of us, to do what we see right.
If this not to your likeing, this just to bad, respect is the word for it. Not an accusation.
Peace and Love Irene

November 11, 2009 at 11:22 pm#156080

Constitutionalist

Participant

Does anyone know why december 25th was picked? And why it was covered up for many many years?

There are two reasons.

November 11, 2009 at 11:29 pm#156081

Participant

Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 12 2009,10:22)

Does anyone know why december 25th was picked? And why it was covered up for many many years?

There are two reasons.

One reason I would think is that pagans liked that feast of the Sun-God. The other I don't know.
What?
Irene

November 12, 2009 at 12:07 am#156086

Constitutionalist

Participant

Quote (georg @ Nov. 11 2009,15:29)

Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 12 2009,10:22)

Does anyone know why december 25th was picked? And why it was covered up for many many years?

There are two reasons.

One reason I would think is that pagans liked that feast of the Sun-God. The other I don't know.
What?
Irene

They miscalculated the death of Herod.

November 12, 2009 at 12:48 am#156094

Participant

Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 12 2009,11:07)

Quote (georg @ Nov. 11 2009,15:29)

Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 12 2009,10:22)

Does anyone know why december 25th was picked? And why it was covered up for many many years?

There are two reasons.

One reason I would think is that pagans liked that feast of the Sun-God. The other I don't know.
What?
Irene

They miscalculated the death of Herod.

How?
Irene

November 12, 2009 at 3:26 am#156151

Participant

Hello,
The story of Christ's birth encompasses more than 1 day. The event begins with the miraculous conception which very well might have been on Dec. 25th during the Festival of Lights and of course includes the actual birth and then the shepherds receiving the announcement which is most likely during September or October during the Feast of the Tabernacles and then the story continues till the Magi find Him by following His star and that star is very likely traced back to the lining up of particular celestial bodies who were at their brightest on a later Dec. 25th. So it is reasonable to celebrate the event on Dec. 25th because that is when the story began and ended.

BTW, notice that the Magi were led to the celebration after some time had past since His actual birthday. Do you think Mary was ticked because they weren't there on His actual birthday? They were celebrating the event, not the day. They were following a star, God directed the star. Was God off in His timing? I think not. So, is the particular date important or the story? Personally, I don't think we need to get our knickers in a knot over the date. It should be a joyous time.

Just my two cents worth,
Kathi

November 12, 2009 at 3:43 am#156154

Participant

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 12 2009,14:26)

Just my two cents worth,
Kathi

Kathi! What you are saying about the Magi and that it went all the way to Dec, 25 is far fetched. And IMO not true.
At the time the Sheep where outside and that could have never happen in the death of winter. They were brought in at that time. I would like to agree with you, but it really does not make sense.
I know all is so beautiful and that is were most get hang up on.
Love Irene

November 12, 2009 at 4:17 am#156160

http://ldolphin.org/birth.html

Participant

Quote (georg @ Nov. 11 2009,22:43)

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 12 2009,14:26)

Just my two cents worth,
Kathi

Irene,
Re-read my post. I said that the actual birth was very likely in September during the Feast of the Tabernacle.

I was reading about the Christmas star that the Magi followed. I'll find the site for you to read about the Festival of Lights and the Christmas star. I will just put up some of the excerpts and you can read the whole thing at this website:

Quote

THE CHRISTMAS STAR PART 2:

We have seen that all the evidence points to Messiah being born in September of 3 BC. Furthermore we have noted that there are 4 reasons why this event is celebrated on December 25th. It was commented that one of those reasons involved the Wise Man and the final appearance of the Christmas Star. But how do we know this, and who were the Wise Men? Matthew 2:1 says that they came from the East, that is east of Judea…….

Quote

But why did the Persian Magoi make such a perilous trip at all? There were 3 reasons. Firstly, the Hebrew prophet Daniel had been held in high regard in the Persian court. In Daniel 9, the Magoi had the prophecy of Messiah's sacrifice as a man cut off at age 35 (in the midst of his years). They knew that this event would occur 483 Babylonian years of 360 days after a specific decree. Backtracking 35 years gave a birth date for Messiah of 448 Babylonian years or 442 actual years after the decree. As It turned out, that decree was Issued by the Persian king Artaxerxes in his 20th year which was 445/444 BC. The Magoi consequently knew the time of Messiah's birth as around 3/2 BC on our Calendar.

The second reason was that there had been a Mesopotamian prophet called Balaam who had foretold the coming of the Star that would herald Messiah for all the tribes of Israel (see Numbers 24). Finally, Zoroaster, a pupil of Daniel, had incorporated these prophecies in his bible, called the Zend Avesta, and Zoroastrianism was the State Religion of Persia at the time of Christ's birth. It prophesied that there would be born unto the Jews a King Messiah, and that His coming would be heralded by a sign In the heavens in the constellation Virgo.

Quote

This leaves the option of planets. When we examine the night sky with planets in mind, a series of amazing celestial events occurred. On the 1st August 3 BC the drama began to unfold with Jupiter rising helically in the rays of dawn. On the 13 August Venus and Jupiter stood very close together in the sunrise. On the 18th, Mercury came out of the solar glare, and on September 1st, Mercury and Venus stood 1/3rd degree apart in Leo.

These were dramatic events. The astronomers who were based at the Sippar Institute would see an astrological significance in these signs. Essentially, Jupiter, the King planet, had left the Sun, the Father of the Gods, to be conjoined with Venus, the Virgin Mother in the constellation of Leo, which is the symbol for the tribe of Judah in Israel. Furthermore, Mercury, the Messenger of the Gods, had come from the Sun's presence to stand with Venus the virgin mother in the rays of the dawn.

Then on 14th September 3 BC and 17th February and 8th May in 2 BC, Jupiter the King planet stood next to Regulus the brightest star in Leo, which also represented Royalty. Then came a climax to the display. On June 17th 2 BC, Venus and Jupiter, the two brightest planets in the Solar System, appeared to collide. They stood an Incredible 1/50th degree apart and seemed to fuse into one immense ball of Light. This was an unprecedented event. But that was not all. On 27th August in 2 BC there was a grand meeting of the planets In Virgo. Jupiter and Mars were only 1/7th degree apart and close at hand were Mercury and Venus standing together in the glare of the rising sun.

This dramatic sequence of events ending in Virgo qualified for the Star spoken of by the Zend Avesta. But then Jupiter left the other planets in the dawn, and moved westwards. This was the sign the Magoi were waiting for. Jupiter the key player in the Christmas star sequence was leading them towards Judea. And so they set out. From that moment in Mid-November, Jupiter the King planet actually went before them in the sky towards Judea. Six weeks later as the Magoi checked the pre-dawn sky, Jupiter was on the Meridian due south of Jerusalem. It would appear directly over Bethlehem 65 degrees above the southern horizon.

And just at that time, the final event occurred. Jupiter had reached its furthest point westward, and no longer moved against the background store. It actually 'Stood Over' where the young child was. Incredibly, on that some day, the Sun was at its furthest point south for the year, and stood still in the heavens (for that is what the word 'solstice' means). Jupiter was again in the constellation Virgo as the Zend Avesta predicted, when this occurred on 25th December in 2 BC. It was a unique sequence of events that had landed the Magoi at Bethlehem.

The possible date of conception can be figured out from the timing of Elizabeth's pregnancy and Mary's visit. Mary is newly pregnant when she visits Elizabeth. It makes sense to m
e that Mary would conceive during a Jewish holiday and give birth during another Jewish holiday.

I know it is a lot to read. You might find it interesting though.

Love,
Kathi

November 12, 2009 at 7:49 am#156184

http://ldolphin.org/birth.html

Participant

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 12 2009,15:17)

Quote (georg @ Nov. 11 2009,22:43)

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 12 2009,14:26)

Just my two cents worth,
Kathi

Irene,
Re-read my post. I said that the actual birth was very likely in September during the Feast of the Tabernacle.

Quote

THE CHRISTMAS STAR PART 2:

Quote

The possible date of conception can be figured out from the timing of Elizabeth's pregnancy and Mary's visit. Mary is newly pregnant when she visits Elizabeth. It makes sense to me that Mary would conceive during a Jewish holiday and give birth during another Jewish holiday.

I know it is a lot to read. You might find it interesting though.

Love,
Kathi

I read some of it. However it is hard to read at nights for me. So I will read it in the morning. But as far as figuring out when Christ was born, that is exactly how Georg figured it out. Will get back with you on this tomorrow.
Well at least we agree on that, right.
Peace and Love Irene

November 12, 2009 at 4:21 pm#156238

Participant

Quote (georg @ Nov. 12 2009,09:44)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 12 2009,08:42)

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 11 2009,16:22)

And then there are those of us who can sing this song and be in awe of the event and the babe in the manger.

[FLASH=340,285]http://[/FLASH]

Peace and joy,
Kathi

Kathi

Great song!~

Watch out for they may start accusing you and the song writer for praying to Mary!

Whatever day is actually the birthday of Jesus, you don't think a long list of true SINNERS born prior to Jesus were not born on that same day?

I seriously don't get why just because it was some fake gods birthday, that should have anything to do with WHY it's wrong to celebrate Christ's birthday on December 25th.

September 11th weighs heavy on many people's hearts and now we are seeing the evidence that supports Christ was born actually on that day. Many, many people see that day as an EVIL day, and now we should look at it as Christ's birthday…….

The EVIL was not in the fact that December 25th is some FAKE gods birthday, the EVIL is in those who took one LIE and exchanged it for another, and demanded people follow their lies!! IMO

November 12, 2009 at 4:39 pm#156241

Participant

Quote (georg @ Nov. 12 2009,06:33)

Quote (Jodi Lee @ Nov. 12 2009,04:33)

YHWH does not like people worshiping that which is not real, it is dysfunctional.

YHWH does not like people worshiping Jesus as the one true God, because he is not, and therefore it is dysfunctional as well.

It's actually rather fitting for those who celebrate their god Jesus Christ's birthday on the same day that others worshiped a fake god's birthday….isn't it? It's rather ironic!

For the record, I have said nothing about telling people they should worship Jesus on December 25th and celebrate his birthday on that day. I have clearly said nothing of the sort. Did you read my post before the one you quoted?

November 12, 2009 at 5:30 pm#156246

Participant

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 12 2009,08:22)

And then there are those of us who can sing this song and be in awe of the event and the babe in the manger.

[FLASH=340,285]http://[/FLASH]

Peace and joy,
Kathi

2Peter 1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 17 For he received from God the Father honor and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. 18And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.”

2 Timothy 1:9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began, 10 but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who has abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel, 11 to which I was appointed a preacher, an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.

Romans 16:25 Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret since the world began 26 but now has been made manifest, and by the prophetic Scriptures has been made known to all nations, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, for obedience to the faith— 27 to God, alone wise, be glory through Jesus Christ forever. Amen.

1 John 2:25 And this is the promise that He has promised us–eternal life.

Ac 13:23 From this man's seed, according to the promise, God raised up for Israel a Savior–Jesus–

There exists NO scripture that says that the promise of God was to send a son He already had to become a man.

Acts 13: 30 But God raised Him from the dead. 31 He was seen for many days by those who came up with Him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are His witnesses to the people. 32 And we declare to you glad tidings–that promise which was made to the fathers. 33 God has fulfilled this for us their children, in that He has raised up Jesus. As it is also written in the second Psalm: 'You are My Son,Today I have begotten You.' 34 And that He raised Him from the dead, no more to return to corruption, He has spoken thus: 'I will give you the sure mercies of David.' 35 Therefore He also says in another Psalm: 'You will not allow Your Holy One to see corruption.' 36 “For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell asleep, was buried with his fathers, and saw corruption; 37 but He whom God raised up saw no corruption.

Galatians 3:19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.

Titus 1:1 Paul, a bondservant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect and the acknowledgment of the truth which accords with godliness, 2 in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began,

Joh 17:3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

Acts 2:30 Therefore, being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that of the fruit of his body, according to the flesh, He would raise up the Christ to sit on his throne, 31 he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption. 32 This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses. 33 Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear. 34 For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself: 'The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at My right hand, 35 Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.” ' 36 “Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.”

Lu 24:39 Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.”

Eph 5:30 For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones.

1 Corinthians 15:49 And as we have born the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man.

Jesus was and is a MAN, not fully man and fully the one true God. Jesus received, from the One True God, the promise of the Spirit of eternal life. Jesus was raised flesh and bone and we too shall be raised with incorruptible flesh and bone!!!!!!

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,

The ONE TRUE God the Father calls Jesus God because with the powers the Father HAS GIVEN to him, and with his position as a MEDIATOR that HAS been GIVEN to him, Jesus is to us as a God, but there is ONLY ONE TRUE GOD of which ALL power and life COMES FROM, and that is YHWH the Father!

1Cor. 8:5-7… even as there are many Gods and many Lords, nevertheless for us there is one God, the Father, out of Whom all is, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through Whom all is.

Lu 12:40 Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.”

2 John 1:7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

The MAN, resurrected with flesh and bones IS COMING, those who say he is coming as the one true God are of the antichrist!

November 12, 2009 at 11:09 pm#156296