Was christ born on december 25

[GeneBalthrop]

Irene………I enjoy the songs of Christ berth , but i do agree with you that Dec 25, was originally a pagan day of worship. It had to do with their custom of rebirth and started with the pagan teachings of Tammazu, Simoramos the queen said she saw her illegitimate son Tammazu who had died came back to life in the form of a greenbay tree at the time of the suns aqunox Dec 25 , and commanded everyone to go and get a greebay tree out of the forest and decorate it with gold and silver ornaments to celebrate his rebirth, Christmas is PURE PAGAN in orgins. Still like the songs though specially about the berth of Jesus. IMO

love and peace to you and Georg……………………..gene

[georg]

Quote (Gene @ Nov. 11 2009,03:32)

Irene………I enjoy the songs of Christ berth , but i do agree with you that Dec 25, was originally a pagan day of worship. It had to do with their custom of rebirth and started with the pagan teachings of Tammazu, Simoramos the queen said she saw her illegitimate son Tammazu who had died came back to life  in the form of a greenbay tree at the time of the suns aqunox Dec 25 , and commanded everyone to go and get a greebay tree out of the forest and decorate it with gold and silver ornaments to celebrate his rebirth, Christmas is PURE PAGAN in orgins.  Still like the songs though specially about the berth of Jesus.  IMO love and peace to you and Georg……………………..gene

I agree with you a 100%  this knowledge we received of the Sun-God some over 25 years ago and since 1985 have not had a tree or decoration on our House.  Christmas songs I like too, but knowing who is really behind all of it, spoils it for me.  I always have mixed feelings around this time of the year.  Knowing that God hated Heathen Holidays I too have to do the same, as a Christian.  But again to some it does not matter.  But the question is always in my mind, does God.  And what does God say if you are not sure, you should not do it.  And what if you know it and still do it?  That my friend, I don't understand.  To say I just like it, and go along with everybody?  No, no.  I have never been able to do so.  I always have searched the things of God and not of Heathen or Pagans.  Also some Scriptures I think in Jeremiah talks about going out and cutting down a tree and deck them with gold and silver. God said not to do so.  I don't.
Peace and Love Irene

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 10 2009,21:32)

What does the Bible say against celebrating birthdays?  NOTHING! Is it pagan to celebrate a birthday?  NO! Has anyone proven birthday celebrations began with pagans? NO! Will you go to hell for celebrating your birthday? NO! Is it a sin to celebrate your New Birth in the Messiah on its annual day?  NO! Is it a lie to teach the Bible is against celebrating birthdays?  YES! Is it a lie that birthdays began within paganism?  YES! Did people in the Bible count their birthdays?  YES! Did Jews celebrate the 12th birthday of boys and girls?  YES! Bar Mitzvah and Bat Mitzvah Did the parents of Yeshua take him on his 12th birthday to Jerusalem and celebrate his Bar Mitzvah?  YES! Did Levites on their 30th birthday celebrate becoming a priest?  YES!

You are mostly correct except it must be understood that celebrating someone elses birthday yearly is not the same thing as celebrating the birth of a child or celebrating ones own birthday yearly.

Christmas is something even far more different it is celebrating the birth of the Messiah by giving others (mostly only those you know) gifts but the problem with Christmas is a little more intricate.

Cutting Down and decorating trees with silver and Gold is Idol worship

Jeremiah 10:2-4 (King James Version)

3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.

4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

The point is not what is so evil with Christmas but what is good about Christmas?

[georg]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 11 2009,05:57)

Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 10 2009,21:32) What does the Bible say against celebrating birthdays?  NOTHING! Is it pagan to celebrate a birthday?  NO! Has anyone proven birthday celebrations began with pagans? NO! Will you go to hell for celebrating your birthday? NO! Is it a sin to celebrate your New Birth in the Messiah on its annual day?  NO! Is it a lie to teach the Bible is against celebrating birthdays?  YES! Is it a lie that birthdays began within paganism?  YES! Did people in the Bible count their birthdays?  YES! Did Jews celebrate the 12th birthday of boys and girls?  YES! Bar Mitzvah and Bat Mitzvah Did the parents of Yeshua take him on his 12th birthday to Jerusalem and celebrate his Bar Mitzvah?  YES! Did Levites on their 30th birthday celebrate becoming a priest?  YES! You are mostly correct except it must be understood that celebrating someone elses birthday yearly is not the same thing as celebrating the birth of a child or celebrating ones own birthday yearly. Christmas is something even far more different it is celebrating the birth of the Messiah by giving others (mostly only those you know)  gifts but the problem with Christmas is a little more intricate. Cutting Down and decorating trees with silver and Gold is Idol worship Jeremiah 10:2-4 (King James Version) 3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. 4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. The point is not what is so evil with Christmas but what is good about Christmas?

So, what is good about it. You left us hanging there!!!
It is suppose to be the Birthday of Christ and it is not, He was born in September to October. No one has really figured out the exact date. Don't you wonder why? The Bible only says something bad about someones Birthday and nothing about Christ's Birthday at all. Is it sin to celebrate Christmas
lets look at what the Bible says about that again.
Jeremiah calls it vain and Idol worship to get a tree and decorate it with silver and with gold. So if we know about this, and still do it, are we now sinning. That is the question of the day. And I am going to let you all think about it. I will not judge others, just myself.
Peace and Love Irene

[bodhitharta]

Quote (georg @ Nov. 11 2009,07:27)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 11 2009,05:57) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 10 2009,21:32) What does the Bible say against celebrating birthdays?  NOTHING! Is it pagan to celebrate a birthday?  NO! Has anyone proven birthday celebrations began with pagans? NO! Will you go to hell for celebrating your birthday? NO! Is it a sin to celebrate your New Birth in the Messiah on its annual day?  NO! Is it a lie to teach the Bible is against celebrating birthdays?  YES! Is it a lie that birthdays began within paganism?  YES! Did people in the Bible count their birthdays?  YES! Did Jews celebrate the 12th birthday of boys and girls?  YES! Bar Mitzvah and Bat Mitzvah Did the parents of Yeshua take him on his 12th birthday to Jerusalem and celebrate his Bar Mitzvah?  YES! Did Levites on their 30th birthday celebrate becoming a priest?  YES! You are mostly correct except it must be understood that celebrating someone elses birthday yearly is not the same thing as celebrating the birth of a child or celebrating ones own birthday yearly. Christmas is something even far more different it is celebrating the birth of the Messiah by giving others (mostly only those you know)  gifts but the problem with Christmas is a little more intricate. Cutting Down and decorating trees with silver and Gold is Idol worship Jeremiah 10:2-4 (King James Version) 3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. 4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. The point is not what is so evil with Christmas but what is good about Christmas? So, what is good about it.  You left us hanging there!!! It is suppose to be the Birthday of Christ and it is not, He was born in September to October.  No one has really figured out the exact date.  Don't you wonder why?  The Bible only says something bad about someones Birthday and nothing about Christ's Birthday at all. Is it sin to celebrate Christmas lets look at what the Bible says about that again. Jeremiah calls it vain and Idol worship to get a tree and decorate it with  silver and with gold.   So if we know about this, and still do it, are we now sinning.  That is the question of the day.  And I am going to let you all think about it.  I will not judge others, just myself. Peace and Love Irene

Christmas does seem to turn out to be a vain custom filled with despair, ungratefulness and excessive waste and consumption.

I see many people (especially poor people) holding back important things such a Coats and clothing so that they can give them as gifts on Christmas day to their children or relatives, wouldn't be better to give what you can give when you have it to give?

I see great burdens placed upon people who have to go into debt and suffer for many months just to buy gifts mostly unneeded items while many who could have used such items suffer.

I see people come together twice a year to make sure people can eat during the holidays? What about the rest of the year?

Exchanging gifts is not an act of charity it is an act of vanity and often you find many being ungrateful if they don't get what they were expecting.

[georg]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 11 2009,10:35)

Quote (georg @ Nov. 11 2009,07:27) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 11 2009,05:57) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 10 2009,21:32) What does the Bible say against celebrating birthdays?  NOTHING! Is it pagan to celebrate a birthday?  NO! Has anyone proven birthday celebrations began with pagans? NO! Will you go to hell for celebrating your birthday? NO! Is it a sin to celebrate your New Birth in the Messiah on its annual day?  NO! Is it a lie to teach the Bible is against celebrating birthdays?  YES! Is it a lie that birthdays began within paganism?  YES! Did people in the Bible count their birthdays?  YES! Did Jews celebrate the 12th birthday of boys and girls?  YES! Bar Mitzvah and Bat Mitzvah Did the parents of Yeshua take him on his 12th birthday to Jerusalem and celebrate his Bar Mitzvah?  YES! Did Levites on their 30th birthday celebrate becoming a priest?  YES! You are mostly correct except it must be understood that celebrating someone elses birthday yearly is not the same thing as celebrating the birth of a child or celebrating ones own birthday yearly. Christmas is something even far more different it is celebrating the birth of the Messiah by giving others (mostly only those you know)  gifts but the problem with Christmas is a little more intricate. Cutting Down and decorating trees with silver and Gold is Idol worship Jeremiah 10:2-4 (King James Version) 3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. 4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. The point is not what is so evil with Christmas but what is good about Christmas? So, what is good about it.  You left us hanging there!!! It is suppose to be the Birthday of Christ and it is not, He was born in September to October.  No one has really figured out the exact date.  Don't you wonder why?  The Bible only says something bad about someones Birthday and nothing about Christ's Birthday at all. Is it sin to celebrate Christmas lets look at what the Bible says about that again. Jeremiah calls it vain and Idol worship to get a tree and decorate it with  silver and with gold.   So if we know about this, and still do it, are we now sinning.  That is the question of the day.  And I am going to let you all think about it.  I will not judge others, just myself. Peace and Love Irene Christmas does seem to turn out to be a vain custom filled with despair, ungratefulness and excessive waste and consumption. I see many people (especially poor people) holding back important things such a Coats and clothing so that they can give them as gifts on Christmas day to their children or relatives, wouldn't be better to give what you can give when you have it to give? I see great burdens placed upon people who have to go into debt and suffer for many months just to buy gifts mostly unneeded items while many who could have used such items suffer. I see people come together twice a year to make sure people can eat during the holidays? What about the rest of the year? Exchanging gifts is not an act of charity it is an act of vanity and often you find many being ungrateful if they don't get what they were expecting.

Again you are so right, that is what people will do.  Not our Family though, no more.  Also at that time there are more people committing suicide then any other time of the year.  So sad.
Vanity Oh Vanity, so sad and so wrong to do.  But that is what they like they tell us.  When we kept Christmas I used to go all out of my way, just to please my Aunt especially.  She would buy our Kids so much and I felt guilty if I did not please Her.  And no matter what I did I never could please Her.  When we stopped Christmas, I was so glad, no more going all over the place for a gift for Her.  Peace at last.
I bet you if some would follow me, they would also be relieved of that burden.  The only thing I miss is the singing.  
Peace and Love Irene

[bodhitharta]

Quote (georg @ Nov. 11 2009,11:23)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 11 2009,10:35) Quote (georg @ Nov. 11 2009,07:27) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 11 2009,05:57) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 10 2009,21:32) What does the Bible say against celebrating birthdays?  NOTHING! Is it pagan to celebrate a birthday?  NO! Has anyone proven birthday celebrations began with pagans? NO! Will you go to hell for celebrating your birthday? NO! Is it a sin to celebrate your New Birth in the Messiah on its annual day?  NO! Is it a lie to teach the Bible is against celebrating birthdays?  YES! Is it a lie that birthdays began within paganism?  YES! Did people in the Bible count their birthdays?  YES! Did Jews celebrate the 12th birthday of boys and girls?  YES! Bar Mitzvah and Bat Mitzvah Did the parents of Yeshua take him on his 12th birthday to Jerusalem and celebrate his Bar Mitzvah?  YES! Did Levites on their 30th birthday celebrate becoming a priest?  YES! You are mostly correct except it must be understood that celebrating someone elses birthday yearly is not the same thing as celebrating the birth of a child or celebrating ones own birthday yearly. Christmas is something even far more different it is celebrating the birth of the Messiah by giving others (mostly only those you know)  gifts but the problem with Christmas is a little more intricate. Cutting Down and decorating trees with silver and Gold is Idol worship Jeremiah 10:2-4 (King James Version) 3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. 4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. The point is not what is so evil with Christmas but what is good about Christmas? So, what is good about it.  You left us hanging there!!! It is suppose to be the Birthday of Christ and it is not, He was born in September to October.  No one has really figured out the exact date.  Don't you wonder why?  The Bible only says something bad about someones Birthday and nothing about Christ's Birthday at all. Is it sin to celebrate Christmas lets look at what the Bible says about that again. Jeremiah calls it vain and Idol worship to get a tree and decorate it with  silver and with gold.   So if we know about this, and still do it, are we now sinning.  That is the question of the day.  And I am going to let you all think about it.  I will not judge others, just myself. Peace and Love Irene Christmas does seem to turn out to be a vain custom filled with despair, ungratefulness and excessive waste and consumption. I see many people (especially poor people) holding back important things such a Coats and clothing so that they can give them as gifts on Christmas day to their children or relatives, wouldn't be better to give what you can give when you have it to give? I see great burdens placed upon people who have to go into debt and suffer for many months just to buy gifts mostly unneeded items while many who could have used such items suffer. I see people come together twice a year to make sure people can eat during the holidays? What about the rest of the year? Exchanging gifts is not an act of charity it is an act of vanity and often you find many being ungrateful if they don't get what they were expecting. Again you are so right, that is what people will do.  Not our Family though, no more.  Also at that time there are more people commiting suicide then any other time of the year.  So sad. Vainity Oh Vainity, so sad and so wrong to do.  But that is what they like they tell us.  When we kept xChristmas I used to go all out of my way, just to please my Aunt especially.  She woul buy our Kids so much and I felt guilty if I did not please Her.  And no matter what I did I never could please Her.  When we stopped Christmas, I was so glad, no more going all over the place for a gift for Her.  Peace at last. I bet you if some would follow me, they would also be relieved of that purdon.  The only thing I miss is the singing.   Peace and Love Irene

Sing as often as you like in-fact sing to God your own song of praise. Sing aloud or softly “I Love your wayyyyyy, God” “Your Wayyyyyy”

[georg]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 11 2009,11:28)

Quote (georg @ Nov. 11 2009,11:23) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 11 2009,10:35) Quote (georg @ Nov. 11 2009,07:27) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 11 2009,05:57) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 10 2009,21:32) What does the Bible say against celebrating birthdays?  NOTHING! Is it pagan to celebrate a birthday?  NO! Has anyone proven birthday celebrations began with pagans? NO! Will you go to hell for celebrating your birthday? NO! Is it a sin to celebrate your New Birth in the Messiah on its annual day?  NO! Is it a lie to teach the Bible is against celebrating birthdays?  YES! Is it a lie that birthdays began within paganism?  YES! Did people in the Bible count their birthdays?  YES! Did Jews celebrate the 12th birthday of boys and girls?  YES! Bar Mitzvah and Bat Mitzvah Did the parents of Yeshua take him on his 12th birthday to Jerusalem and celebrate his Bar Mitzvah?  YES! Did Levites on their 30th birthday celebrate becoming a priest?  YES! You are mostly correct except it must be understood that celebrating someone elses birthday yearly is not the same thing as celebrating the birth of a child or celebrating ones own birthday yearly. Christmas is something even far more different it is celebrating the birth of the Messiah by giving others (mostly only those you know)  gifts but the problem with Christmas is a little more intricate. Cutting Down and decorating trees with silver and Gold is Idol worship Jeremiah 10:2-4 (King James Version) 3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. 4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. The point is not what is so evil with Christmas but what is good about Christmas? So, what is good about it.  You left us hanging there!!! It is suppose to be the Birthday of Christ and it is not, He was born in September to October.  No one has really figured out the exact date.  Don't you wonder why?  The Bible only says something bad about someones Birthday and nothing about Christ's Birthday at all. Is it sin to celebrate Christmas lets look at what the Bible says about that again. Jeremiah calls it vain and Idol worship to get a tree and decorate it with  silver and with gold.   So if we know about this, and still do it, are we now sinning.  That is the question of the day.  And I am going to let you all think about it.  I will not judge others, just myself. Peace and Love Irene Christmas does seem to turn out to be a vain custom filled with despair, ungratefulness and excessive waste and consumption. I see many people (especially poor people) holding back important things such a Coats and clothing so that they can give them as gifts on Christmas day to their children or relatives, wouldn't be better to give what you can give when you have it to give? I see great burdens placed upon people who have to go into debt and suffer for many months just to buy gifts mostly unneeded items while many who could have used such items suffer. I see people come together twice a year to make sure people can eat during the holidays? What about the rest of the year? Exchanging gifts is not an act of charity it is an act of vanity and often you find many being ungrateful if they don't get what they were expecting. Again you are so right, that is what people will do.  Not our Family though, no more.  Also at that time there are more people commiting suicide then any other time of the year.  So sad. Vainity Oh Vainity, so sad and so wrong to do.  But that is what they like they tell us.  When we kept xChristmas I used to go all out of my way, just to please my Aunt especially.  She woul buy our Kids so much and I felt guilty if I did not please Her.  And no matter what I did I never could please Her.  When we stopped Christmas, I was so glad, no more going all over the place for a gift for Her.  Peace at last. I bet you if some would follow me, they would also be relieved of that purdon.  The only thing I miss is the singing.   Peace and Love Irene Sing as often as you like in-fact sing to God your own song of praise. Sing aloud or softly “I Love your wayyyyyy, God” “Your Wayyyyyy”

I have memorized a couple of my favorite songs like
It is well with my Soul
The King of Love my Shepard is
Morning has broken
I sing the Mighty power of God
I have started a Song to Praise God Tread and all of these Songs are on there.
Singing is my favorite pass time. I sing praise to our God every
day.
Irene

[Constitutionalist]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 10 2009,10:57)

Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 10 2009,21:32) What does the Bible say against celebrating birthdays?  NOTHING! Is it pagan to celebrate a birthday?  NO! Has anyone proven birthday celebrations began with pagans? NO! Will you go to hell for celebrating your birthday? NO! Is it a sin to celebrate your New Birth in the Messiah on its annual day?  NO! Is it a lie to teach the Bible is against celebrating birthdays?  YES! Is it a lie that birthdays began within paganism?  YES! Did people in the Bible count their birthdays?  YES! Did Jews celebrate the 12th birthday of boys and girls?  YES! Bar Mitzvah and Bat Mitzvah Did the parents of Yeshua take him on his 12th birthday to Jerusalem and celebrate his Bar Mitzvah?  YES! Did Levites on their 30th birthday celebrate becoming a priest?  YES! You are mostly correct except it must be understood that celebrating someone elses birthday yearly is not the same thing as celebrating the birth of a child or celebrating ones own birthday yearly. Christmas is something even far more different it is celebrating the birth of the Messiah by giving others (mostly only those you know)  gifts but the problem with Christmas is a little more intricate. Cutting Down and decorating trees with silver and Gold is Idol worship Jeremiah 10:2-4 (King James Version) 3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. 4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. The point is not what is so evil with Christmas but what is good about Christmas?

I wasn't speaking about Christmas, I was speaking about birthdays, as far a scripture is concerned celebration of birthdays is not a sin.

Christmas is another story.

[Constitutionalist]

The Messiah was born on the 1st of Elul which was September 11th in 3 BC about 7-8 P.M.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (georg @ Nov. 11 2009,12:31)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 11 2009,11:28) Quote (georg @ Nov. 11 2009,11:23) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 11 2009,10:35) Quote (georg @ Nov. 11 2009,07:27) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 11 2009,05:57) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 10 2009,21:32) What does the Bible say against celebrating birthdays?  NOTHING! Is it pagan to celebrate a birthday?  NO! Has anyone proven birthday celebrations began with pagans? NO! Will you go to hell for celebrating your birthday? NO! Is it a sin to celebrate your New Birth in the Messiah on its annual day?  NO! Is it a lie to teach the Bible is against celebrating birthdays?  YES! Is it a lie that birthdays began within paganism?  YES! Did people in the Bible count their birthdays?  YES! Did Jews celebrate the 12th birthday of boys and girls?  YES! Bar Mitzvah and Bat Mitzvah Did the parents of Yeshua take him on his 12th birthday to Jerusalem and celebrate his Bar Mitzvah?  YES! Did Levites on their 30th birthday celebrate becoming a priest?  YES! You are mostly correct except it must be understood that celebrating someone elses birthday yearly is not the same thing as celebrating the birth of a child or celebrating ones own birthday yearly. Christmas is something even far more different it is celebrating the birth of the Messiah by giving others (mostly only those you know)  gifts but the problem with Christmas is a little more intricate. Cutting Down and decorating trees with silver and Gold is Idol worship Jeremiah 10:2-4 (King James Version) 3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. 4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. The point is not what is so evil with Christmas but what is good about Christmas? So, what is good about it.  You left us hanging there!!! It is suppose to be the Birthday of Christ and it is not, He was born in September to October.  No one has really figured out the exact date.  Don't you wonder why?  The Bible only says something bad about someones Birthday and nothing about Christ's Birthday at all. Is it sin to celebrate Christmas lets look at what the Bible says about that again. Jeremiah calls it vain and Idol worship to get a tree and decorate it with  silver and with gold.   So if we know about this, and still do it, are we now sinning.  That is the question of the day.  And I am going to let you all think about it.  I will not judge others, just myself. Peace and Love Irene Christmas does seem to turn out to be a vain custom filled with despair, ungratefulness and excessive waste and consumption. I see many people (especially poor people) holding back important things such a Coats and clothing so that they can give them as gifts on Christmas day to their children or relatives, wouldn't be better to give what you can give when you have it to give? I see great burdens placed upon people who have to go into debt and suffer for many months just to buy gifts mostly unneeded items while many who could have used such items suffer. I see people come together twice a year to make sure people can eat during the holidays? What about the rest of the year? Exchanging gifts is not an act of charity it is an act of vanity and often you find many being ungrateful if they don't get what they were expecting. Again you are so right, that is what people will do.  Not our Family though, no more.  Also at that time there are more people commiting suicide then any other time of the year.  So sad. Vainity Oh Vainity, so sad and so wrong to do.  But that is what they like they tell us.  When we kept xChristmas I used to go all out of my way, just to please my Aunt especially.  She woul buy our Kids so much and I felt guilty if I did not please Her.  And no matter what I did I never could please Her.  When we stopped Christmas, I was so glad, no more going all over the place for a gift for Her.  Peace at last. I bet you if some would follow me, they would also be relieved of that purdon.  The only thing I miss is the singing.   Peace and Love Irene Sing as often as you like in-fact sing to God your own song of praise. Sing aloud or softly “I Love your wayyyyyy, God” “Your Wayyyyyy” I have memorized a couple of my favorite songs like It is well with my Soul The King of Love my Shepard is Morning has broken I sing the Mighty power of God I have started a Song to Praise God Tread and all of these Songs are on there. Singing is my favorite pass time.  I sing praise to our God every day. Irene

God bless you always!

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 11 2009,13:02)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 10 2009,10:57) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 10 2009,21:32) What does the Bible say against celebrating birthdays?  NOTHING! Is it pagan to celebrate a birthday?  NO! Has anyone proven birthday celebrations began with pagans? NO! Will you go to hell for celebrating your birthday? NO! Is it a sin to celebrate your New Birth in the Messiah on its annual day?  NO! Is it a lie to teach the Bible is against celebrating birthdays?  YES! Is it a lie that birthdays began within paganism?  YES! Did people in the Bible count their birthdays?  YES! Did Jews celebrate the 12th birthday of boys and girls?  YES! Bar Mitzvah and Bat Mitzvah Did the parents of Yeshua take him on his 12th birthday to Jerusalem and celebrate his Bar Mitzvah?  YES! Did Levites on their 30th birthday celebrate becoming a priest?  YES! You are mostly correct except it must be understood that celebrating someone elses birthday yearly is not the same thing as celebrating the birth of a child or celebrating ones own birthday yearly. Christmas is something even far more different it is celebrating the birth of the Messiah by giving others (mostly only those you know)  gifts but the problem with Christmas is a little more intricate. Cutting Down and decorating trees with silver and Gold is Idol worship Jeremiah 10:2-4 (King James Version) 3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. 4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. The point is not what is so evil with Christmas but what is good about Christmas? I wasn't speaking about Christmas, I was speaking about birthdays, as far a scripture is concerned celebration of birthdays is not a sin. Christmas is another story.

A mild celebration is okay but I have been to birthday celebrations where it turns almost into Idol worship or complete foolishness with excuse to be excessive and even sin.

I personally like to call my Mother and Father and thank them as it was their day too, I also do use my birthday as a time of reflection to think what I could be doing better and even though I do that everyday it is intensified by the birthday but I don't place any burden on anyone to do anything but I understand what you mean and you are correct.

[georg]

Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 11 2009,13:05)

The Messiah was born on the 1st of Elul which was September 11th in 3 BC about 7-8 P.M.

Now tell us how you proved that? I can figure out the Month which is between September and October, but not the day or even the time? How do you figure that?
Irene

[Jodi Lee]

Quote (georg @ Nov. 11 2009,04:21)

Quote (Gene @ Nov. 11 2009,03:32) Irene………I enjoy the songs of Christ berth , but i do agree with you that Dec 25, was originally a pagan day of worship. It had to do with their custom of rebirth and started with the pagan teachings of Tammazu, Simoramos the queen said she saw her illegitimate son Tammazu who had died came back to life  in the form of a greenbay tree at the time of the suns aqunox Dec 25 , and commanded everyone to go and get a greebay tree out of the forest and decorate it with gold and silver ornaments to celebrate his rebirth, Christmas is PURE PAGAN in orgins.  Still like the songs though specially about the berth of Jesus.  IMO love and peace to you and Georg……………………..gene I agree with you a 100%  this knowledge we received of the Sun-God some over 25 years ago and since 1985 have not had a tree or decoration on our House.  Christmas songs I like too, but knowing who is really behind all of it, spoils it for me.  I always have mixed feelings around this time of the year.  Knowing that God hated Heathen Holidays I too have to do the same, as a Christian.  But again to some it does not matter.  But the question is always in my mind, does God.  And what does God say if you are not sure, you should not do it.  And what if you know it and still do it?  That my friend, I don't understand.  To say I just like it, and go along with everybody?  No, no.  I have never been able to do so.  I always have searched the things of God and not of Heathen or Pagans.  Also some Scriptures I think in Jeremiah talks about going out and cutting down a tree and deck them with gold and silver. God said not to do so.  I don't. Peace and Love Irene

Hello Irene,

I think in Jeremiah 10 if you keep reading you will see that the chapter is referring to carved images, a tree that has been cut down, carved and then dipped in gold and silver. I believe the point is we should absolutely not worship False Idols. I believe that the scripture speaks for itself in showing such, and that the World Wide Church of God was really pushing it, trying to say it was referring to what became to be called the Christmas tree. Since most Christians worship Jesus as the One True God, their worship during Christmas is that of a false idol, and they are no different to those whom YHWH disliked in Jeremiah….they are idolater worshipers.   

Those who worshiped false idols were IGNORANT, and that ignorance was dysfunctional. YHWH is functional and His ways are functional.  Most Christians are ignorant IMO, they blindly follow religious tradition, and thus the lies that they believe profit them nothing.

I do not believe that God dislikes people bringing trees into their homes and decorating them. Many people bring Christmas trees into their homes and decorate them out of enjoyment from the beauty of the tree and the fun of decorating it, with having absolutely nothing to do with any sort of worship. Wedding rings are from pagan origin, so is hand shaking, and bringing flowers into the home and putting them in a vase.  What is significant is the BELIEF BEHIND these traditions (false worship of a god) not necessarily the traditions themselves IMO.

I believe this can be applied to your enjoyment of music as well Irene.  You say you like the song “Morning has Broken”, however the singer of that song was at the time not a Christian and a few years later he actually became a Muslim.

Do you like the SONG because of where it originated or because of whom it originated from? No, you like it because you can apply the words to your OWN FAITH!!  

I love trees, and I love bringing a Noble Fir into my home in the winter time. I do not worship trees, nor do I worship Christ as the one true God. I also enjoy bringing other things of nature into my home, I have an awesome collection of cool rocks, thousands of sea shells, and many plants. I also have carved images of turtles and elephants. None of these things I worship. When I bring a tree into my home in winter I don't think YHWH has a problem with it. He knows that I enjoy it because it's a creation of His!

Peace to you and Georg,   Jodi

[Lightenup]

Quote (Jodi Lee @ Nov. 11 2009,00:17)

Quote (georg @ Nov. 11 2009,04:21) Quote (Gene @ Nov. 11 2009,03:32) Irene………I enjoy the songs of Christ berth , but i do agree with you that Dec 25, was originally a pagan day of worship. It had to do with their custom of rebirth and started with the pagan teachings of Tammazu, Simoramos the queen said she saw her illegitimate son Tammazu who had died came back to life  in the form of a greenbay tree at the time of the suns aqunox Dec 25 , and commanded everyone to go and get a greebay tree out of the forest and decorate it with gold and silver ornaments to celebrate his rebirth, Christmas is PURE PAGAN in orgins.  Still like the songs though specially about the berth of Jesus.  IMO love and peace to you and Georg……………………..gene I agree with you a 100%  this knowledge we received of the Sun-God some over 25 years ago and since 1985 have not had a tree or decoration on our House.  Christmas songs I like too, but knowing who is really behind all of it, spoils it for me.  I always have mixed feelings around this time of the year.  Knowing that God hated Heathen Holidays I too have to do the same, as a Christian.  But again to some it does not matter.  But the question is always in my mind, does God.  And what does God say if you are not sure, you should not do it.  And what if you know it and still do it?  That my friend, I don't understand.  To say I just like it, and go along with everybody?  No, no.  I have never been able to do so.  I always have searched the things of God and not of Heathen or Pagans.  Also some Scriptures I think in Jeremiah talks about going out and cutting down a tree and deck them with gold and silver. God said not to do so.  I don't. Peace and Love Irene Hello Irene, I think in Jeremiah 10 if you keep reading you will see that the chapter is referring to carved images, a tree that has been cut down, carved and then dipped in gold and silver. I believe the point is we should absolutely not worship False Idols. I believe that the scripture speaks for itself in showing such, and that the World Wide Church of God was really pushing it, trying to say it was referring to what became to be called the Christmas tree. Since most Christians worship Jesus as the One True God, their worship during Christmas is that of a false idol, and they are no different to those whom YHWH disliked in Jeremiah….they are idolater worshipers.    Those who worshiped false idols were IGNORANT, and that ignorance was dysfunctional. YHWH is functional and His ways are functional.  Most Christians are ignorant IMO, they blindly follow religious tradition, and thus the lies that they believe profit them nothing. I do not believe that God dislikes people bringing trees into their homes and decorating them. Many people bring Christmas trees into their homes and decorate them out of enjoyment from the beauty of the tree and the fun of decorating it, with having absolutely nothing to do with any sort of worship. Wedding rings are from pagan origin, so is hand shaking, and bringing flowers into the home and putting them in a vase.  What is significant is the BELIEF BEHIND these traditions (false worship of a god) not necessarily the traditions themselves IMO. I believe this can be applied to your enjoyment of music as well Irene.  You say you like the song “Morning has Broken”, however the singer of that song was at the time not a Christian and a few years later he actually became a Muslim. Do you like the SONG because of where it originated or because of whom it originated from? No, you like it because you can apply the words to your OWN FAITH!!   I love trees, and I love bringing a Noble Fir into my home in the winter time. I do not worship trees, nor do I worship Christ as the one true God. I also enjoy bringing other things of nature into my home, I have an awesome collection of cool rocks, thousands of sea shells, and many plants. I also have carved images of turtles and elephants. None of these things I worship. When I bring a tree into my home in winter I don't think YHWH has a problem with it. He knows that I enjoy it because it's a creation of His! Peace to you and Georg,   Jodi

I agree with Jodi on this one!
Blessings,
Kathi

[bodhitharta]

So you don't mind decorating a tree and singing “Oh Christmas tree”?

[Lightenup]

I enjoy decorating the tree and singing “O Christmas Tree.” It is a pretty song.

O Christmas Tree! O Christmas Tree!
Thy leaves are so unchanging;
O Christmas Tree! O Christmas Tree!
Thy leaves are so unchanging;
Not only green when summer's here,
But also when 'tis cold and drear.
O Christmas Tree! O Christmas Tree!
Thy leaves are so unchanging!

O Christmas Tree! O Christmas Tree!
Much pleasure thou can'st give me;
O Christmas Tree! O Christmas Tree!
Much pleasure thou can'st give me;
How often has the Christmas tree
Afforded me the greatest glee!
O Christmas Tree! O Christmas Tree!
Much pleasure thou can'st give me.

O Christmas Tree! O Christmas Tree!
Thy candles shine so brightly!
O Christmas Tree! O Christmas Tree!
Thy candles shine so brightly!
From base to summit, gay and bright,
There's only splendor for the sight.
O Christmas Tree! O Christmas Tree!
Thy candles shine so brightly!

O Christmas Tree! O Christmas Tree!
How richly God has decked thee!
O Christmas Tree! O Christmas Tree!
How richly God has decked thee!
Thou bidst us true and faithful be,
And trust in God unchangingly.
O Christmas Tree! O Christmas Tree!
How richly God has decked thee! !”

Read through the lyrics and see how they honor God.
Kathi

[kerwin]

Why the deep discussion about window dressing?

[georg]

Quote (Jodi Lee @ Nov. 11 2009,16:17)

Quote (georg @ Nov. 11 2009,04:21) Quote (Gene @ Nov. 11 2009,03:32) Irene………I enjoy the songs of Christ berth , but i do agree with you that Dec 25, was originally a pagan day of worship. It had to do with their custom of rebirth and started with the pagan teachings of Tammazu, Simoramos the queen said she saw her illegitimate son Tammazu who had died came back to life  in the form of a greenbay tree at the time of the suns aqunox Dec 25 , and commanded everyone to go and get a greebay tree out of the forest and decorate it with gold and silver ornaments to celebrate his rebirth, Christmas is PURE PAGAN in orgins.  Still like the songs though specially about the berth of Jesus.  IMO love and peace to you and Georg……………………..gene I agree with you a 100%  this knowledge we received of the Sun-God some over 25 years ago and since 1985 have not had a tree or decoration on our House.  Christmas songs I like too, but knowing who is really behind all of it, spoils it for me.  I always have mixed feelings around this time of the year.  Knowing that God hated Heathen Holidays I too have to do the same, as a Christian.  But again to some it does not matter.  But the question is always in my mind, does God.  And what does God say if you are not sure, you should not do it.  And what if you know it and still do it?  That my friend, I don't understand.  To say I just like it, and go along with everybody?  No, no.  I have never been able to do so.  I always have searched the things of God and not of Heathen or Pagans.  Also some Scriptures I think in Jeremiah talks about going out and cutting down a tree and deck them with gold and silver. God said not to do so.  I don't. Peace and Love Irene Hello Irene, I think in Jeremiah 10 if you keep reading you will see that the chapter is referring to carved images, a tree that has been cut down, carved and then dipped in gold and silver. I believe the point is we should absolutely not worship False Idols. I believe that the scripture speaks for itself in showing such, and that the World Wide Church of God was really pushing it, trying to say it was referring to what became to be called the Christmas tree. Since most Christians worship Jesus as the One True God, their worship during Christmas is that of a false idol, and they are no different to those whom YHWH disliked in Jeremiah….they are idolater worshipers.    Those who worshiped false idols were IGNORANT, and that ignorance was dysfunctional. YHWH is functional and His ways are functional.  Most Christians are ignorant IMO, they blindly follow religious tradition, and thus the lies that they believe profit them nothing. I do not believe that God dislikes people bringing trees into their homes and decorating them. Many people bring Christmas trees into their homes and decorate them out of enjoyment from the beauty of the tree and the fun of decorating it, with having absolutely nothing to do with any sort of worship. Wedding rings are from pagan origin, so is hand shaking, and bringing flowers into the home and putting them in a vase.  What is significant is the BELIEF BEHIND these traditions (false worship of a god) not necessarily the traditions themselves IMO. I believe this can be applied to your enjoyment of music as well Irene.  You say you like the song “Morning has Broken”, however the singer of that song was at the time not a Christian and a few years later he actually became a Muslim. Do you like the SONG because of where it originated or because of whom it originated from? No, you like it because you can apply the words to your OWN FAITH!!   I love trees, and I love bringing a Noble Fir into my home in the winter time. I do not worship trees, nor do I worship Christ as the one true God. I also enjoy bringing other things of nature into my home, I have an awesome collection of cool rocks, thousands of sea shells, and many plants. I also have carved images of turtles and elephants. None of these things I worship. When I bring a tree into my home in winter I don't think YHWH has a problem with it. He knows that I enjoy it because it's a creation of His! Peace to you and Georg,   Jodi

Jodi! That is your opinion. I am under another opinion and most of the W.W.Church of God believed that it was wrong to bring a tree into the Home and decorated around the time of the Sun-God”s Birthday. If it would be Christ's Birthday, you know what, I would go along with it. But knowing this, I just can't. And I will not. We happen to be able to figure out when Christ's Birthday is, and it just makes no sense to me what mainstream Christianity is doing at this time. The first Christians never kept such pagan Festivals. If you look into the Encyclopedia Britannica it tells you all about that, along with what Christianity is doing today. IMO Wether God likes it, you really believe He is O.K. with celebrating His Birthday on the Sun Gods Birthday? IMO I don't think so. But only time will tell, I always say.
Peace and Love Irene

[Constitutionalist]

Quote (georg @ Nov. 10 2009,20:45)

Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 11 2009,13:05) The Messiah was born on the 1st of Elul which was September 11th in 3 BC about 7-8 P.M. Now tell us how you proved that?  I can figure out the Month which is between September and October, but not the day or even the time? How do you figure that? Irene

1) Luke: Jesus' 30th year to the 15th year of Tiberius Caesar, 27-28 AD.

2) Luke effectively placed the birth in 3 BC.

3) All the available evidence has always pointed at the harvest period of 3 BC as the focal point of the Nativity.

4) In his second chapter, Luke tells what happened the day Mary came to the Temple for purification 40 days after the birth of Jesus.

5) Luke plainly names the day.

6) Yom Kippur. The Day of Atonement. The 10th day of the seventh month of the Hebrew calendar.

7) In Luke's time, Yom Kippur was called three things: The day of the “Fast,” the day of the “Purification,”and the day of “Redemption.”

8) Luke uses all three to identify the day Jesus was brought to the Temple.

9) And he even quotes the Torah rule that mandates
the 40-day period for the mother to wait after the child's birth [Lk 2:22-38].

10) Luke tells of a woman named Anna who had been in the Temple for a “night and day” without leaving. There was
ONLY ONE DAY A YEAR when a person could pray overnight in the Temple: Yom Kippur. All other days, the Temple was locked at sundown.

11) This shows the 40th day of Mary's Purification had begun at the end of Yom Kippur, the end of the 10th day of the 7th month.

12) Because we know the Purification was done at
the earliest opportunity, at the beginning of the 40th day after birth. And since the 6th month normally had only 29 days, simple arithmatic shows Mary's 39 days of Purification
had to have begun around sundown on the 1st day of the 6th month, called Elul.

13) This was the night of the first sighting of the new moon of Elul.

14) The Magi in Babylon were recording this sunset sliver of the new moon on a clay tablet. So the new moon seen by the Magi in Babylon at the very moment of Jesus being born is recorded on one of the tablets now in London. Cuneiform scholars have identified the date on this tablet as equivalent to September, 11, 3 BC.

15) So the 1st of Elul was September 11th in 3 BC.

16) We can also tell from Luke's Gospel that Jesus had been born in early evening, for Luke says the shepherds were keeping watch by night, but still had time to go into town
and tell the people what they had seen earlier that evening.

17) People rose early with the sun in those days, and would have been asleep by 9 or 10 pm. Therefore, the birth had taken place no later than 8 pm, and probably before 7 pm.

18) Yet Luke says it happened at night, which means after sunset, surely after 6 pm in September. Hence, it follows that Jesus was born within a few minutes of 6:30-7:30 pm on the evening of September 11th, 3 BC.

NOTE: Historian Ernest L. Martin consulted NASA lunar-phase tables and found the image of the heavens in Revelation 12
showed where the sun and the moon were, relative to Virgo, at the time Jesus was born, pin-pointing sunset of September 11th of 3 BC.

Moreover, the moon comes within two lunar diameters of Virgo's feet at the time of a new moon but once in 30 years.
The only such occurance any time near the birth of Jesus was on September 11th, 3 BC.

[Author]

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