Wakeup, journey mike only

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  • #371251
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 14 2014,18:58)
    Jesus calls Himself servant…….


    So not “God Almighty Himself”, but a servant OF God, right?

    Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 14 2014,18:58)
    ….he was send by His Father…….


    So not the one who SENT, but the one who WAS SENT, right?  Which of the two is the greater, according to Jesus himself?  (John 13:16)

    Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 14 2014,18:58)
    ……he obeyed His Father…….


    So not “God Almighty Himself”, but one who OBEYED God, right?

    Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 14 2014,18:58)
    ….he came as the only begotten son of the Father……..


    So not “God Almighty Himself”, but the son OF God, right?

    Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 14 2014,18:58)
    And is in fact God's own Word before born on earth.


    So not “God Almighty Himself”, but a possession OF God, right?

    Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 14 2014,18:58)
    Mike: you are going further and further from the truth.


    Wakeup, it is YOUR OWN words that prove that Jesus is NOT “God Almighty Himself”, but someone LESSER THAN “God Almighty Himself”.

    Yet you say I'M the one going further from the truth, when YOU'RE the one who wants to attribute GOD'S glory to this lesser servant OF God.

    Hmmmm…………

    #371252
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 14 2014,19:08)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 15 2014,11:21)

    1 Samuel 12:3 KJV
    Behold, here I am: witness against me before the LORD, and before his anointed……..

    The Hebrew word translated as “his anointed” in verse 3 above is the same Hebrew word translated as “Messiah” other places.

    In the Greek translation of the Hebrew OT (the LXX), Samuel said he was standing there in the presence of the Lord and His christ – because “christ” is the Greek word for the Hebrew word “messiah”.


    Mike B.

    Are you saying that there are many, many messiahs?
    Messiah means Deliverer.
    Prophets and apostles are the anointed.
    Anointed with the Holy spirit.
    Where are you going Mike?

    wakeup.


    Wakeup,

    I'm saying that the Hebrew word “messiah”, and the Greek word “christ” both mean “anointed one”.

    Neither of those words mean “deliverer”.

    And there have been MANY “anointed ones” in the scriptures. Jesus is but one of the many “messiahs/christs” mentioned in the Bible.

    He is of course the most important one, concerning our salvation, but he is indeed just one of MANY.

    The fact that the English translators render the same Hebrew word as “anointed one” in the case of Saul, and “Messiah” – with a capital “M” – in the case of Jesus, doesn't change the fact that it is still the SAME EXACT Hebrew word in both cases.

    Saul and Jesus were both equally “anointed ones” of God, and therefore both equally “messiahs” and “christs” of God.

    But all that was just for your and journey's information.

    The point I was making is that the words “messiah” and “christ” mean “anointed one of God”.

    And the name “Jesus the Christ” simply means “Jesus the Anointed One”.

    So who is greater? God? Or the many people God has anointed?

    #371254
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (journey42 @ Feb. 14 2014,08:49)

    Quote (mikeboll @ 64)
    The word simply means “one who has been anointed by God”.  Jesus Christ cannot be God Himself, because he is one of the ones God anointed.


    This is just another example of “bringing Christ down”.  He is just like “David” and “Solomon”, no big deal.
    Well Mike, he stands out far above the rest.  David sinned against the Lord, and so did Solomon.  No sin was found in Christ.  He was perfect, unblemished.  In total obedience, and given full measure of the holy spirit.


    I'm not trying to “bring Christ down” lower than he should be.  I'm trying to keep YOU from raising him up higher than he should be.

    Yes, Jesus is greater than any other servant, son, priest, anointed one, prophet, and spokesman OF God.

    He is far ABOVE David, Solomon, Abraham, Moses, Samuel, and all the rest.  He is worthy of much more praise, honor, and glory than all of those others combined.

    BUT……….

    Let's not put him on an EQUAL pedestal with the God he is the servant, son, priest, anointed one, prophet, and spokesman OF.

    Get it?  Jesus is no doubt great.  But he is not as great as the Almighty God who created him and sent him to atone for our sins.

    Let's keep things in perspective here.

    #371255
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 14 2014,12:20)
    2). God always speaks through His living Word;always.
       Sometimes The Word send's His angels to speak on His
       behalf.

    Revelation 1:1   The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and *signified it* by his angel unto his servant John:

    1. From God.
    2.To His Word/Jesus.
    3. Jesus send His angel.
    4.To John.
    5. From John to all the churches.
    6.And to all interested seekers.


    That doesn't address the point, Wakeup.

    If God's Word was on earth, and a voice came from heaven saying, “This is my Son”, who said those words?

    It surely wasn't the Word who was on earth having those words said ABOUT him.  So apparently God DOESN'T “always” speak through “His Word” like you've said.

    And it's hard to believe an ANGEL said, “This is my Son”, since Jesus is NOT the Son of an angel of God.

    So I want you to tell me WHY you don't believe the Father Himself said those words from heaven, when PETER seems to believe it WAS the Father who said them.

    Do YOU know more than PETER?

    Also, pay attention to the Revelation verse you posted.  In that verse, you can see a clear hierarchy of power.  (In fact, you yourself listed that hierarchy of power in your post.)

    God is at the TOP.

    Then comes God's servant Jesus Christ.

    Then comes a lesser angel.

    Then comes the lesser human being that was chosen as a spokesman.

    Then comes the even lesser human beings who will receive that revelation from God.

    See?  God is above ALL of the spokesman He sent to carry out that word…….. including His main spokesman, the Word of God.

    We need to MAINTAIN that hierarchy, Wakeup.  We can't just place Jesus EQUAL TO his own God because we want to. In your list, “God” is also #1, and Jesus is #2. You can't just EQUATE #1 with #2 – as if there is no difference between them.

    God is, was, and will always be greater than His servant Jesus Christ.

    And therefore, God is, was, and always will be worthy of much more glory than His servant Jesus Christ.

    Keep it in perspective.  Jesus is great.  But his and our God is even greater.

    #371256
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    journey,

    I want to get to your other points in that last post, but I feel you are going to already be bogged down by what I've posted so far.

    Plus, I'm still waiting for you to tell me why the SCRIPTURES say God created all things through “His Son, Jesus Christ”, but YOU say that God created all things through a being who LATER BECAME God's Son Jesus Christ.

    I want to know why YOUR teaching doesn't align with the SCRIPTURAL teaching.

    #371273
    Wakeup
    Participant

    MikeB.

    Quote

    That doesn't address the point, Wakeup.
    If God's Word was on earth, and a voice came from heaven saying, “This is my Son”, who said those words?

    God said those words,carried by a messenger.
    This was done so men can hear what God said.
    No man has heard God's;own voice.
    God does not speak to Jesus in audio.

    Quote

    It surely wasn't the Word who was on earth having those words said ABOUT him. So apparently God DOESN'T “always” speak through “His Word” like you've said.
    And it's hard to believe an ANGEL said, “This is my Son”, since Jesus is NOT the Son of an angel of God.

    Yes; God send His Messenger to speak to His son.
    They are *not* the angels own words, but Gods words.
    So John *could hear* what God said.

    Quote

    So I want you to tell me WHY you don't believe the Father Himself said those words from heaven, when PETER seems to believe it WAS the Father who said them.
    Do YOU know more than PETER?

    If the father Himself said those words;no one else could hear anything said.Only Jesus would hear.
    For the sake of John,God send His angel with the message.
    So He could hear.

    Quote

    Also, pay attention to the Revelation verse you posted. In that verse, you can see a clear hierarchy of power. (In fact, you yourself listed that hierarchy of power in your post.)
    God is at the TOP.
    Then comes God's servant Jesus Christ.
    Then comes a lesser angel.
    Then comes the lesser human being that was chosen as a spokesman.
    Then comes the even lesser human beings who will receive that revelation from God.

    So what is your point?

    Quote

    See? God is above ALL of the spokesman He sent to carry out that word…….. including His main spokesman, the Word of God.
    We need to MAINTAIN that hierarchy, Wakeup. We can't just place Jesus EQUAL TO his own God because we want to. In your list, “God” is also #1, and Jesus is #2. You can't just EQUATE #1 with #2 – as if there is no difference between them.
    God is, was, and will always be greater than His servant Jesus Christ.
    And therefore, God is, was, and always will be worthy of much more glory than His servant Jesus Christ.
    Keep it in perspective. Jesus is great. But his and our God is even greater.

    The image of God is a perfect image.
    And God is in charge of His image.
    His image is not in charge of God.

    Hebrews 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the *express image* of his person, and upholding all things *by the word of his power*, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

    It is not possible to worship God and not worship His own image.
    When you bow before God, you also bow before His image.
    God's own image is also His own Word.

    wakeup.

    #371320
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 15 2014,12:35)
    No man has heard God's;own voice.


    So your misunderstanding of one scripture is causing you to stumble, and come up with other misunderstandings of other scriptures.

    You need to get that checked.

    Exodus 19 KJV
    19 And when the voice of the trumpet sounded long, and waxed louder and louder, Moses spake, and God answered him by a voice.

    Exodus 20 KJV
    1 And God spake all these words, saying,

    2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt……….

    22 And the LORD said unto Moses, Thus thou shalt say unto the children of Israel, Ye have seen that I have talked with you from heaven.

    Deuteronomy 4 NWT
    12 And Jehovah began to speak to YOU out of the middle of the fire. The sound of words was what YOU were hearing, but no form were YOU seeing—nothing but a voice. 1

    3 And he proceeded to state to YOU his covenant, which he commanded YOU to perform—the Ten Words, after which he wrote them upon two tablets of stone.

    33 Did ever people hear the voice of God speaking out of the midst of the fire, as thou hast heard, and live?

    Deuteronomy 5 KJV
    22 These words the LORD spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: and he added no more. And he wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me.

    23 And it came to pass, when ye heard the voice out of the midst of the darkness, (for the mountain did burn with fire,) that ye came near unto me, even all the heads of your tribes, and your elders;

    24 And ye said, Behold, the LORD our God hath shewed us his glory and his greatness, and we have heard his voice out of the midst of the fire: we have seen this day that God doth talk with man, and he liveth.

    25 Now therefore why should we die? for this great fire will consume us: if we hear the voice of the Lord our God any more, then we shall die.

    26 For who is there of all flesh, that hath heard the voice of the living God speaking out of the midst of the fire, as we have, and lived?

    Nehemiah 9 KJV
    13 Thou camest down also upon mount Sinai, and spakest with them from heaven, and gavest them right judgments, and true laws, good statutes and commandments:

    Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 15 2014,12:35)
    It is not possible to worship God and not worship His own image.


    We and the angels are also God's own image, Wakeup.  Shall we worship angels and man too?

    #371340
    Wakeup
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 16 2014,02:06)

    Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 14 2014,12:20)
    2). God always speaks through His living Word;always.
       Sometimes The Word send's His angels to speak on His
       behalf.

    Revelation 1:1   The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and *signified it* by his angel unto his servant John:

    1. From God.
    2.To His Word/Jesus.
    3. Jesus send His angel.
    4.To John.
    5. From John to all the churches.
    6.And to all interested seekers.


    That doesn't address the point, Wakeup.

    If God's Word was on earth, and a voice came from heaven saying, “This is my Son”, who said those words?

    It surely wasn't the Word who was on earth having those words said ABOUT him.  So apparently God DOESN'T “always” speak through “His Word” like you've said.

    And it's hard to believe an ANGEL said, “This is my Son”, since Jesus is NOT the Son of an angel of God.

    So I want you to tell me WHY you don't believe the Father Himself said those words from heaven, when PETER seems to believe it WAS the Father who said them.

    Do YOU know more than PETER?

    Also, pay attention to the Revelation verse you posted.  In that verse, you can see a clear hierarchy of power.  (In fact, you yourself listed that hierarchy of power in your post.)

    God is at the TOP.

    Then comes God's servant Jesus Christ.

    Then comes a lesser angel.

    Then comes the lesser human being that was chosen as a spokesman.

    Then comes the even lesser human beings who will receive that revelation from God.

    See?  God is above ALL of the spokesman He sent to carry out that word…….. including His main spokesman, the Word of God.

    We need to MAINTAIN that hierarchy, Wakeup.  We can't just place Jesus EQUAL TO his own God because we want to.  In your list, “God” is also #1, and Jesus is #2.  You can't just EQUATE #1 with #2 – as if there is no difference between them.

    God is, was, and will always be greater than His servant Jesus Christ.

    And therefore, God is, was, and always will be worthy of much more glory than His servant Jesus Christ.

    Keep it in perspective.  Jesus is great.  But his and our God is even greater.


    Mike B.

    Basically what you are saying is that all anointed are
    Messiahs. But there is one that is a greater Messiah.
    Why should all the other anointed ones not be equally anointed?
    For they are all the same anointed.

    Because you believe that the word anointed means
    messiah.

    I believe that there is only one Messiah,and he is the word of God,made flesh.
    The other so called messiahs are earthly men,they did not come from heaven. Your doctrine has caught you in a web of own interpretations.

    Now you have many,many messiahs to pray to.
    For they are all your messiahs;all the same anointed.
    May God have mercy.

    wakeup.

    #371341
    Wakeup
    Participant

    Mike B.

    Quote

    So not “God Almighty Himself”, but a servant OF God, right?

    THE WISDOM YOU USE TO ARGUE IS BASED ON MENS WISDOM. YOU SHOULD COMPARE SPIRITUAL WITH SPIRITUAL. GOD ALMIGHTY HAS HIS WORD WITH HIM.
    GOD ALMIGHTY *DID NOT* SEND GOD ALMIGHTY TO EARTH,
    *BUT HIS WORD*.

    YOU LIKE TO TWIST MY WORDS OVER AND OVER AGAIN. THE WORD OF GOD IS THE WORD OF GOD;NOT GOD;BUT HIS WORD.
    YOU KEEP ON SAYING GOD IS ALSO HIS WORD.
    HIS WORD BELONGS TO GOD. BELONGS,BELONGS,BELONGS.

    THE WORD **OF** GOD.

    Quote

    Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 14 2014,18:58)
    ….he was send by His Father…….[/QUOTE

    YES. *HE*. A LIVING POWERFUL *HE*.

    So not the one who SENT, but the one who WAS SENT, right? Which of the two is the greater, according to Jesus himself? (John 13:16)

    THE ONE WHO SENT IS GREATER THAN THE ONE WHO IS SEND. THE WORD WAS SEND.

    Quote

    Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 14 2014,18:58)
    ……he obeyed His Father…….

    YES; TO DEATH.

    Quote

    So not “God Almighty Himself”, but one who OBEYED God, right?

    YES; GOD'S WORD ALWAYS OBEYS HIS OWNER.

    Quote

    Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 14 2014,18:58)
    ….he came as the only begotten son of the Father……..
    So not “God Almighty Himself”, but the son OF God, right?

    YES; AND
    I NEVER SAID GOD SEND HIMSELF;BUT GOD SENDS HIS WORD TO EARTH. **NOT GOD HIMSELF**

    Quote

    Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 14 2014,18:58)
    And is in fact God's own Word before born on earth.

    YES; HE WAS NOT THE SON BEFORE HE WAS BORN ON EARTH. BUT THE LIVING WORD.

    Quote

    So not “God Almighty Himself”, but a possession OF God, right?

    RIGHT.

    Quote

    Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 14 2014,18:58)
    Mike: you are going further and further from the truth.

    YES; YOU HAVE FOLLOWED AFTER THE PRECEPTS OF MEN.
    AND YOU ARE INTERROGATING ME BECAUSE OF YOUR LACK OF KNOWLEDGE.

    Quote

    Wakeup, it is YOUR OWN words that prove that Jesus is NOT “God Almighty Himself”, but someone LESSER THAN “God Almighty Himself”.

    I NEVER SAID THAT. IT IS YOU SAYING THAT IN YOUR MIND.

    WHAT BELONGS TO GOD IS NOT LESSER.THE HOLY SPIRIT IS NOT LESSER. THE WORD OF GOD IS NOT LESSER.
    THAT IS MANS TALK.MAN WITH NO SPIRITUAL KNOWLEDGE.
    IT'S JUST THAT GOD IS IN CHARGE;ALL BELONGS TO HIM.

    Quote

    Yet you say I'M the one going further from the truth, when YOU'RE the one who wants to attribute GOD'S glory to this lesser servant OF God.

    I WORSHIP GOD AND **ALL OF GOD**,AND THAT IS HIS WORD AND HIS HOLY SPIRIT INCLUDED IN MY WORSHIP.
    WHICH YOU DONT KNOW WHAT YOU WORSHIP.
    FOR YOU HAVE MANY MESSIAHS;ONE GREATER THAN THE OTHER. YOU ARE CAUGHT IN A WEB OF CONFUSION.

    wakeup.

    #371342
    Wakeup
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 16 2014,01:52)

    Quote (journey42 @ Feb. 14 2014,08:49)

    Quote (mikeboll @ 64)
    The word simply means “one who has been anointed by God”.  Jesus Christ cannot be God Himself, because he is one of the ones God anointed.


    This is just another example of “bringing Christ down”.  He is just like “David” and “Solomon”, no big deal.
    Well Mike, he stands out far above the rest.  David sinned against the Lord, and so did Solomon.  No sin was found in Christ.  He was perfect, unblemished.  In total obedience, and given full measure of the holy spirit.


    I'm not trying to “bring Christ down” lower than he should be.  I'm trying to keep YOU from raising him up higher than he should be.

    Yes, Jesus is greater than any other servant, son, priest, anointed one, prophet, and spokesman OF God.

    He is far ABOVE David, Solomon, Abraham, Moses, Samuel, and all the rest.  He is worthy of much more praise, honor, and glory than all of those others combined.

    BUT……….

    Let's not put him on an EQUAL pedestal with the God he is the servant, son, priest, anointed one, prophet, and spokesman OF.

    Get it?  Jesus is no doubt great.  But he is not as great as the Almighty God who created him and sent him to atone for our sins.

    Let's keep things in perspective here.


    Mike B.

    Keep on misinterpreting the scriptures and you will do well in this world.

    Hebrews 1:8 **But unto the Son he saith**,
    ***Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever***: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

    You *just* honour him that has the key of life and hell.
    And who died for you.
    You have made your choice.

    wakeup.

    #371343
    Wakeup
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 17 2014,05:19)

    Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 15 2014,12:35)
    No man has heard God's;own voice.


    So your misunderstanding of one scripture is causing you to stumble, and come up with other misunderstandings of other scriptures.

    You need to get that checked.

    Exodus 19 KJV
    19 And when the voice of the trumpet sounded long, and waxed louder and louder, Moses spake, and God answered him by a voice.

    Exodus 20 KJV
    1 And God spake all these words, saying,

    2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt……….

    22 And the LORD said unto Moses, Thus thou shalt say unto the children of Israel, Ye have seen that I have talked with you from heaven.

    Deuteronomy 4 NWT
    12 And Jehovah began to speak to YOU out of the middle of the fire. The sound of words was what YOU were hearing, but no form were YOU seeing—nothing but a voice. 1

    3 And he proceeded to state to YOU his covenant, which he commanded YOU to perform—the Ten Words, after which he wrote them upon two tablets of stone.

    33 Did ever people hear the voice of God speaking out of the midst of the fire, as thou hast heard, and live?

    Deuteronomy 5 KJV
    22 These words the LORD spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: and he added no more. And he wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me.

    23 And it came to pass, when ye heard the voice out of the midst of the darkness, (for the mountain did burn with fire,) that ye came near unto me, even all the heads of your tribes, and your elders;

    24 And ye said, Behold, the LORD our God hath shewed us his glory and his greatness, and we have heard his voice out of the midst of the fire: we have seen this day that God doth talk with man, and he liveth.

    25 Now therefore why should we die? for this great fire will consume us: if we hear the voice of the Lord our God any more, then we shall die.

    26 For who is there of all flesh, that hath heard the voice of the living God speaking out of the midst of the fire, as we have, and lived?

    Nehemiah 9 KJV
    13 Thou camest down also upon mount Sinai, and spakest with them from heaven, and gavest them right judgments, and true laws, good statutes and commandments:

    Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 15 2014,12:35)
    It is not possible to worship God and not worship His own image.


    We and the angels are also God's own image, Wakeup.  Shall we worship angels and man too?


    Mike B.

    You have failed to perceive the it was the Word of God
    speaking from the beginning of the world.
    Also in the garden.

    wakeup.

    #371373
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 16 2014,19:18)
    THE WORD OF GOD IS THE WORD OF GOD;NOT GOD;BUT HIS WORD.

    HIS WORD BELONGS TO GOD.  BELONGS, BELONGS, BELONGS.

    THE ONE WHO SENT IS GREATER THAN THE ONE WHO IS SENT. THE WORD WAS SENT.

    YES; GOD'S WORD ALWAYS OBEYS HIS OWNER.


    All these words of yours tell me that the Word isn't actually God Himself, but someone LESSER THAN God.

    Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 16 2014,19:18)
    WHAT BELONGS TO GOD IS NOT LESSER.


    Are you sure?  Because you just said above that the one who SENT the Word is GREATER.  And you can't have one who is GREATER unless there is also one who is LESSER.

    Also, I belong to God.  I am a possession, son, and servant OF God just like Jesus is.  Am I lesser than God?  Or am I equal to God because I belong to Him?

    Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 16 2014,19:18)
    I WORSHIP GOD AND **ALL OF GOD**,AND THAT IS HIS WORD AND HIS HOLY SPIRIT INCLUDED IN MY WORSHIP.


    Not exactly, Wakeup.  You've said loud and clear that you worship the Father (“God”), AND ALSO the Word.  

    So you worship TWO as your God.  Three, if you add in the Holy Spirit.

    But Jehovah our God is ONE – not TWO, and not THREE.

    So you can't have it both ways, Wakeup.  You can't keep insisting that the Word is NOT God, but then say the Word is one of the beings you worship.

    Because if BOTH of those things are true, then you worship God along with another who is NOT God.

    #371374
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 16 2014,19:34)
    Mike B.

    Keep on misinterpreting the scriptures and you will do well in this world.

    Hebrews 1:8 **But unto the Son he saith**,
    ***Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever***: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

    You *just* honour him that has the key of life and hell.
    And who died for you.
    You have made your choice.


    Are you thinking that because Jesus is a god, he is THE GOD, Jehovah? ???

    Is the Son also named Jehovah, Wakeup? Or is the Son OF God a different being than God Himself?

    Btw, Satan is also called a god in scripture. Does that mean you worship him as well? Does that mean Satan is equal to Jehovah?

    If not, then the scripture you posted doesn't mean Jesus is equal to his own God, Jehovah, or that he deserves the worship that is only supposed to go to Jehovah Himself.

    Perhaps YOU are the one who is misinterpreting the scriptures.

    #371377
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 16 2014,19:38)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 17 2014,05:19)

    Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 15 2014,12:35)
    No man has heard God's;own voice.


    So your misunderstanding of one scripture is causing you to stumble, and come up with other misunderstandings of other scriptures.

    You need to get that checked.

    Deuteronomy 5 KJV
    24 we have heard his voice out of the midst of the fire: we have seen this day that God doth talk with man, and he liveth.

    25 Now therefore why should we die? for this great fire will consume us: if we hear the voice of the LORD our God any more, then we shall die.

    26 For who is there of all flesh, that hath heard the voice of the living God speaking out of the midst of the fire, as we have, and lived?


    Mike B.

    You have failed to perceive the it was the Word of God
    speaking from the beginning of the world.
    Also in the garden.

    wakeup.


    I don't know, Wakeup.  Those SCRIPTURES say it was “the living God” who did the speaking.  YOU say it was the Word of God who did the speaking.

    Do you believe Jehovah is mute?  Do you believe He hasn't said a word at all since He “spoke the Word out of His mouth”, or whatever?

    Besides, why would people worry about dying from hearing “the Word of God”?  No one was worried about dying when the Word of God came to earth and lived there for 33 years, right?

    It seems that you believe Jehovah didn't do much of anything at all.  You think “the Word” did all the creating, and all the speaking, and all the teaching and commanding.

    What, if anything, did God Almighty Himself do?   ???

    And THAT is what I'm working on for you and journey.  You guys go into a fit if you think the name “Jesus” is omitted from one little scripture, but think it's perfectly okay if “Jehovah” is omitted over 6500 times.

    What you've done is to place Jesus/the Word ABOVE his and our God.

    You attribute every great thing JEHOVAH did to “the Word”.  You want to give worship to “the Word”.  You freak out if you think the name of “the Word” is left out of the Bible just once.

    What about JEHOVAH, Wakeup?  What about the God who actually created you and everything else?  Is He chopped liver?  Is “the Word” responsible for all the good things in life, and Jehovah is nothing?   ???

    This is the result of taking God's divine NAME out of the Bible.  Now everybody associates all the good things JEHOVAH did with “the Word, Jesus Christ”.

    You guys are so hung up on placing Jesus/the Word as the HIGHEST one that journey even goes as far as to IMAGINE that he has been slighted in the newer Bibles.  ???

    I just don't get it.  We MUST keep things in perspective.  We cannot bend over so far backwards glorifying God's servant that we totally forget about the God who SENT that servant to save us in the first place.

    Get your priorities straight.  God first……… THEN His glorious servant Jesus Christ.

    #371380
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 16 2014,18:35)
    Mike B.

    Basically what you are saying is that all anointed are
    Messiahs. But there is one that is a greater Messiah.

    Because you believe that the word anointed means
    messiah.


    Yes Wakeup, all that is correct.  And the reason I believe it is because it is an undeniable FACT.

    The Hebrew word is “mashiyach”.  It means:

    mashiyach
    1) anointed, anointed one
      1a) of the Messiah, Messianic prince
      1b) of the king of Israel  
      1c) of the high priest of Israel
      1d) of Cyrus  
      1e) of the patriarchs as anointed kings

    You can see all the people in scripture that this word has been attributed to.  Would it help if I posted every KJV verse that word is used in – so you can see the different ways they translate that same exact Hebrew word?

    Or perhaps this will help:

    Daniel 9:25 King James Version
    Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

    NET ©
    So know and understand: From the issuing of the command to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until an anointed one, a prince arrives……….

    NIV ©
    “Know and understand this: From the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes……..

    NASB ©
    “So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince…….

    NLT ©
    Now listen and understand! Seven sets of seven plus sixty–two sets of seven will pass from the time the command is given to rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One comes.

    MSG ©
    “'Here is what you must understand: From the time the word goes out to rebuild Jerusalem until the coming of the Anointed Leader……….

    BBE ©
    Have then the certain knowledge that from the going out of the word for the building again of Jerusalem till the coming of a prince, on whom the holy oil has been put, will be seven weeks………….

    NRSV ©
    Know therefore and understand: from the time that the word went out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the time of an anointed prince, there shall be seven weeks……….

    See all the different ways that Hebrew word is translated?  The FACT is that the word actually MEANS “anointed one”.  But the word SOUNDS like “messiah” in the Hebrew tongue.  That's why you have some who translate the word as “anointed one”, and others who transliterate the word as “messiah”.

    And when that Hebrew word refers to anyone in definitions 1b – 1e in the green definition I posted above, most English Bibles will translate the word as “anointed”, or “anointed one”.

    But when that same exact Hebrew word refers to Jesus, many English Bibles choose to transliterate the word as “messiah” – and give it a capital “M”.

    It is the same with the Greek word “christ”.  The word merely MEANS “anointed one”.  But we transliterate the word into English as “christ”.

    So any time you read “Jesus Messiah”, or “Jesus Christ”, both terms merely mean “Jesus the anointed one”.

    And since Jesus is not the only “anointed one” in scripture (as the green definition above shows you), Jesus is not the only “messiah” or “christ”.  But he IS the only one for whom the English translators transliterate the Hebrew and Greek words for “anointed one”, and cap the first letter.

    Anyway, don't fool yourself.  The title “Jesus Christ” tells us that Jesus isn't God Himself, but one of the many who God ANOINTED.  It is literally, “Jesus the Christ”, or “Jesus the Messiah”.

    Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 16 2014,18:35)
    I believe that there is only one Messiah……….


    Well, now you know the truth of the matter, and can adjust that erroneous belief, right?

    Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 16 2014,18:35)
    Now you have many,many messiahs to pray to.


    I don't pray to any of God's messiahs, Wakeup.  Not even the highest ranking one, Jesus of Nazareth.

    I pray TO Jehovah God Almighty, THROUGH His holy servant Jesus of Nazareth, commonly known as Jesus the Christ of God.

    Like this:

    Acts 4 NIV
    24 When they heard this, they raised their voices together in prayer to God. “Sovereign Lord,” they said, “you made the heavens and the earth and the sea, and everything in them.

    30 Stretch out your hand to heal and perform signs and wonders through the name of your holy servant Jesus.”

    That's how it's done, Wakeup.  We pray TO God, and THROUGH His holy servant Jesus.  We don't pray TO any of God's many messiahs.

    (Also notice in that prayer that they prayed TO the one who created all things. And they prayed TO that Creator THROUGH that Creator's holy servant, Jesus.

    Jesus didn't create a single thing, Wakeup. God is the one who created all things. And God chose to do that THROUGH His holy servant Jesus.)

    Stick with me, buddy. We'll eventually get your head screwed on right. :)

    #371386
    Wakeup
    Participant

    Mike B.

    Your Analyses of the whole thing is based on your own
    precept of thinking.
    And you are very confused.
    Btw. Jesus is also the anointed Messiah.
    There is but one mediator between God and man;not many
    as you believe.

    I worship God.
    I worsip His Word also.
    I worship His HS also.
    I worship one God and all in Him.
    I dont leave out anything of God.
    God as a whole.

    You worship you dont know what.
    But worship confusion.

    You worship God,but not His Word, and not His HS.
    Your God is just an empty shell.
    God is a spirit that no one can divide into sections.
    Divide and conquer; is that also your strategy.

    You are drunken with the wine of the world.

    wakeup.

    #371393
    journey42
    Participant

    Hi Mike

    mikeboll64,Feb. wrote:

    [/quote]

    Quote
    I'm not trying to “bring Christ down” lower than he should be.  I'm trying to keep YOU from raising him up higher than he should be.

    Matthew 1:21   And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

    Quote
    Yes, Jesus is greater than any other servant, son, priest, anointed one, prophet, and spokesman OF God.


    Matthew 1:23   Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

    Quote
    He is far ABOVE David, Solomon, Abraham, Moses, Samuel, and all the rest.  He is worthy of much more praise, honor, and glory than all of those others combined.


    Hebrews 1:4   Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

    Quote
    BUT……….

    Let's not put him on an EQUAL pedestal with the God he is the servant, son, priest, anointed one, prophet, and spokesman OF.

    Matthew 10:22   And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

    Quote
    Get it?  Jesus is no doubt great.  But he is not as great as the Almighty God who created him and sent him to atone for our sins.


    Luke 10:17   And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.

    John 14:14   If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

    Romans 10:9   That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
    Romans 10:13   For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
    Romans 10:14   How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

    Romans 10:15   And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace and bring glad tidings of good things?

    Quote
    Let's keep things in perspective here.


    John 1:12   But as many as received him,  gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

    Philippians 2:6   Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

    Colossians 3:24   Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.

    #371427
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    journey,

    I respect the amount of time and work that went into that post, but not one of those pretty colored scriptures you posted refute any of the things I claimed.

    Emmanuel means “God is with us”.  Jesus being called that name was a sign that Jehovah was indeed still “with us”, or “on our side”.  That name does not equate Jesus with his and our God, Jehovah……… although the Trinitarian-sponsored Bibles word it in a way that makes people think it does.

    Also, the KJV version of Phil 2:6 – flawed as it is – still doesn't equate Jesus with the God in whose form he was existing.

    Try one of these versions:

    Philippians 2:6

    New International Version
    ……….did not consider equality with God something to be grasped;

    New Living Translation
    ………did not think of equality with God as something to cling to.

    English Standard Version
    ………did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,

    New American Standard Bible
    ………did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,

    NET Bible
    ……..did not regard equality with God as something to be grasped,

    King James 2000 Bible
    ……..thought it not a thing to be grasped to be equal with God:

    American Standard Version
    …..counted not the being on an equality with God a thing to be grasped,

    World English Bible
    …….didn't consider equality with God a thing to be grasped,

    New World Translation
    …….gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God.

    Did you notice that the KJV finally got it right in 2000?  :)

    journey, who is greater?  Jesus?  Or his God Jehovah?

    #371428
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 17 2014,18:35)
    Jesus is also the anointed Messiah.


    Wakeup, “anointed” and “messiah” mean the same thing.  It's like you are saying that Jesus is the “anointed anointed”, or the “messiah messiah”.

    Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 17 2014,18:35)
    There is but one mediator between God and man; not many as you believe.


    I only know of one.  His name is Jesus.  Why would you say I believe in “many”?  ???

    And why on earth doesn't the fact that Jesus is the mediator BETWEEN God and man tell you that Jesus is not actually God Himself, and should therefore not be worshiped as if he IS God Himself?  ???

    Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 17 2014,18:35)
    I worship God.
    I worsip His Word also.
    I worship His HS also.


    I know, Wakeup.  You are much like a Trinitarian.  You worship THREE as your God(s).  I, on the other hand, only worship Jehovah Himself.  I don't worship His possessions, His creations, or His servants.

    Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 17 2014,18:35)
    Your God is just an empty shell.


    My God is Jehovah – the one who created the heavens, the earth, and everything in them.  He is by no means “an empty shell”.

    Wakeup, that last post of yours was mostly just nonsense and untrue claims about me.

    Why not try ADDRESSING some of the many points I took my time to show you yesterday?

    For example, have you now LEARNED that the Hebrew word for “messiah” and “anointed one” is one and the same word?

    Have you LEARNED from that prayer in Acts 4 that we are to pray TO Jehovah, the one who actually created the heavens, the earth, the sea, and all things in them?  And we are to pray to Him THROUGH His anointed SERVANT Jesus?  

    Have you LEARNED that Jehovah Himself did indeed talk directly to certain people in the scriptures?

    These are some of the things I'm trying to TEACH you, but I can't be sure that you've LEARNED them, because you rarely respond directly to the points I make.

    #371431
    Wakeup
    Participant

    Mike B.

    I believe that you exist,but I dont believe in what you think
    and what you say, stand for and do.

    wakeup.

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