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Mike,
I just spent a whole hour answering you, and lost everything again. Is someone on your end cutting me off? This keeps happening.
I give up for now.Will answer you when I have more patience.
Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 04 2014,15:55) 5.This being was Gods own thoughts,in himself;
Wakeup,Repeating the same confusing stuff over and over is NOT having a true discussion. I'm asking VALID questions ABOUT the things you've been repeating over and over – and I believe I deserve some DIRECT answers to those questions.
Face it, if you can't adequately answer questions ABOUT the stuff you've been claiming, then something's wrong with the stuff you've been claiming.
1. I want to know WHY only the first “package” of words that came out of God's mouth became a living breathing being. Why not all the OTHER words God has spoken for eons?
2. And I want to know IF this living breathing being that came out of God was already a living breathing being BEFORE he came out of God.
They are very simple questions. Please answer them DIRECTLY this time.
Quote (journey42 @ Feb. 04 2014,18:20) Mike, I just spent a whole hour answering you, and lost everything again. Is someone on your end cutting me off?
Yes journey,T8 and myself have been card carrying members of the KJV Haters Club for years now. And as a part of that organization, we are entitle to certain perks. One of those perks involves having members of the Club spy on people like you, and mess with you on occasion.
Deleting long posts that you've worked hard on is just one of the ways our organization messes with you.
Don't take it personally – because we do it to everyone who loves the KJV.
journey, I'm truly sorry that happened again. I've been there before, and it really sucks when it happens. It makes me want to throw the computer across the room.
Try to “Select All” and “Copy” before hitting “Add Reply”. That way if something gets lost in translation, you can always just “Paste” everything to your re-post.
If you need help in how to do all that, let me know.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 05 2014,14:27) Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 04 2014,15:55) 5.This being was Gods own thoughts,in himself;
Wakeup,Repeating the same confusing stuff over and over is NOT having a true discussion. I'm asking VALID questions ABOUT the things you've been repeating over and over – and I believe I deserve some DIRECT answers to those questions.
Face it, if you can't adequately answer questions ABOUT the stuff you've been claiming, then something's wrong with the stuff you've been claiming.
1. I want to know WHY only the first “package” of words that came out of God's mouth became a living breathing being. Why not all the OTHER words God has spoken for eons?
2. And I want to know IF this living breathing being that came out of God was already a living breathing being BEFORE he came out of God.
They are very simple questions. Please answer them DIRECTLY this time.
MikeB.I am repeating it because you are asking the same questions
over and over. The answeres will be the same.Dont shoot the messenger because you can not understand.
I dont know how many words God has on his mind.
I say unlimited.1.How many words have you got in your possession?
2. What is this about first package, and second package?
3. Does God speak himself? For no one has heard God's
own voice.
4. He always speaks through His image.Let us make—
Us=God and his image.
5.On earth;God also speaks through His image.
6.How many words can God speak through his image?It is time that you also start answering questions.
wakeup.
Mike B.
Why dont you say something by responding to this.
Bible teachings.
Is jesus God? just a spokesman?
Or some other?
wakeup.Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 05 2014,01:21) It is time that you also start answering questions.
No, no, no……….. I already fell for that crap before. I've answered a hundred of your UNRELATED questions, and still get no DIRECT answers from you.Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 05 2014,01:21) What is this about first package, and second package?
YOU are the one who used the word “package”, Wakeup. Re-read the 4th post on page 2 of this thread.I am using YOUR word to try and get to the bottom of this. But my questions remained unanswered.
Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 05 2014,01:21) Does God speak himself? For no one has heard God's own voice.
Many people have heard God's own voice. (Deuteronomy 4:10-15, Matthew 3:17, 17:5)Quote He always speaks through His image
So when His “image” was on earth in the form of Jesus Christ, who was it that spoke from heaven?Enough games, Wakeup. You said the first “package” of words God spoke became a living breathing being. I want to know why the many other “packages” of words God has spoken since that time DIDN'T become living breathing beings. I'm trying to get you to see how utterly ludicrous it is to believe that literal words from God's mouth – words that used to actually BE God Himself – were spoken into a being who was no longer “God Himself”, but a DIFFERENT being who was “with God”.
I also want to know if that “living breathing being” was ALREADY a “living breathing being” BEFORE it came out of God. This is the more important of the two questions for me, Wakeup. At least answer this second one.
I thought you were a man of your word, Wakeup. I seem to be finding out differently.
Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 05 2014,01:26) Is jesus God? just a spokesman?
Jesus is indeed God's main spokesman.However, the Son, Priest, Prophet, Lamb, Servant, Spokesman and Messiah OF God is not actually the God he is all those things OF.
Nor did he ever “used to be” that God.
Wakeup, you are taking this discussion off point again. I won't have that. So the only questions from you I will answer next time are ones that have to do with the original “package” of words God spoke, and ones about the Word being a living breathing entity BEFORE he came out from God.
If you cannot talk about those two things, then go talk to someone else.
Mike B.
Why dont anybody respond to *ALL* My posts?
Is it some kind of disease OR SOMETHING?
This proves something to me.
1.They can not handle it.
2.They hate the words.It is not christian to call my post CRAP.
I notice the hatred in those words.
No man is perfect in judging;there is always some bias in them.That's why we should let the scriptures be the judge.
If they know them.wakeup.
MikeB.
I never said FIRST package.
I said the whole package.
Unlimited.
Our words dont consist of packages.
1.Answer my questions.
2.Respond to all my posts.I am not just the one to answer questions.
You also should answer;and anybody.wakeup.
Okay Wakeup,
Last chance.
I will ask you ONE question. And you can ask me ONE question.
If you fail to ANSWER my question in a DIRECT manner, I will take it to the Hot Seat section. If you fail to answer it there, you will receive a tile.
Here is that ONE question for you:
Was “the Word” a living breathing being BEFORE God spoke it out of Himself? YES or NO?
Can I give you a tile?
Every one should get a tile for not answereing all my posts.
1.Are Gods Words alive or not? Y/N?
2.What ever He speaks must be fulfilled.Y/N?
3. Are not all his Words in his mind? Y/N?
4.Did He not speak out his first Word before creation? Y/N?
5.Was Jesus not that Word made flesh? Y/N?
6.Answer this:MY GLORY WILL I NOT GIVE TO ANOTHER.
Make sure you do answer.
did God give His glory to His spokes man/ Y/N?wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 06 2014,21:25) 1.Are Gods Words alive or not? Y/N?
Here is my answer to your ONE question:NO. God's literal spoken words are not literally living breathing things.
Now it's your turn.
Was “the Word” a living breathing being BEFORE God spoke it out of Himself? YES or NO?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 09 2014,04:55) Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 06 2014,21:25) 1.Are Gods Words alive or not? Y/N?
Here is my answer to your ONE question:NO. God's literal spoken words are not literally living breathing things.
Now it's your turn.
Was “the Word” a living breathing being BEFORE God spoke it out of Himself? YES or NO?
MikeB.This is silly.
God IS and WAS a living breathing spirit.
His Word is alive in Him.There is nothing dead in God.
Death came by satan.
God speaks out His living Word and things are created.wakeup.
Where is the direct answer to my question, Wakeup?
Here are your two choices:
1. The Word was ALREADY a living breathing being who was NOT actually God Himself BEFORE God brought him to the “outside”, or whatever.
2. The Word BECAME a living breathing being who was NOT actually God Himself only AFTER God brought him to the “outside”.
Which one?
Quote (journey42 @ Feb. 06 2014,20:30) Mike Nice of you to joke, but someone has been hacking into my computer.
Who said I was joking?
Sorry to hear about you being hacked. For all the wonderful things the internet allows us to do, it is unfortunately also just another platform from which thieves and liars can rob us and do other evil deeds.
Jehovah, hurry up and let your kingdom come, and your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 08 2014,12:33) God speaks out His living Word and things are created.
Wakeup,God alone creates things. In your mind, God says the word “elephant”, and that word itself becomes a living entity that goes around creating elephants.
That is not the case.
God might speak an elephant into existence by simply saying “Elephant” – but it is GOD who created it – not the literal word “elephant” that God spoke.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 10 2014,04:26) Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 08 2014,12:33) God speaks out His living Word and things are created.
Wakeup,God alone creates things. In your mind, God says the word “elephant”, and that word itself becomes a living entity that goes around creating elephants.
That is not the case.
God might speak an elephant into existence by simply saying “Elephant” – but it is GOD who created it – not the literal word “elephant” that God spoke.
MikeB.Job 4:9 By the blast of God they perish, and by the breath of his nostrils are they consumed.
Job 15:30 He shall not depart out of darkness; the flame shall dry up his branches, and by the breath of his mouth shall he go away.
Job 37:10 By the breath of God frost is given: and the breadth of the waters is straitened.
Psalms 33:6 ***By the word of the LORD***
were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the
breath of his mouth.And that *WORD* was walking on earth clocked in flesh.
Put on flesh. He was alive walking and talking amongst his brethren. And He is still alive now.
And that same Word of God is coming back;not just alive; but with power and glory,as of the Father.wakeup.
Mike,
I saw this verse quoted in another post by Daniel.
NWT
John 1:18 No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is at the Father’s side is the one who has explained Him.KJV
John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.I find it strange, how when John was telling the story, and introducing Christ, the NWT took so long to reveal that Christ was actually God's “Son”? …until verse 34.
KJV
John 1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Acts 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.
Hebrews 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
1 John 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.and where is the word Jehovah now?
Hi journey,
I don't understand the last line of your post, or why that line is even there.
But you almost answered your own question about John 1:18 when you posted all those other times John wrote the phrase, “only begotten Son”.
Here is some information about why some Bibles have “only begotten SON” in 1:18, and others have “only begotten GOD”. It is from NETNotes:
The textual problem μονογενὴς θεός (monogenh” qeo”, “the only God”) versus ὁ μονογενὴς υἱός (Jo monogenh” Juio”, “the only son”) is a notoriously difficult one. Only one letter would have differentiated the readings in the mss, since both words would have been contracted as nomina sacra: thus qMs or uMs.
STEP ONE:
This part is telling us that, when making another copy of the Greek text of the NT, the writers used abbreviations, called “nomina sacra”. To us, the word for “son” would look like “uMs”, and the word “god” would look like “qMs”.And surely you can see how the line on the “u” could have been made a little longer, causing it to look like a “q” instead. So when dealing with hand-written texts, it's sometimes hard to tell if the writer wrote a “u” or a “q”.
The office manager at my job does this to us all the time when she hand-writes the addresses of the jobs we are to go to. She abbreviates “Ave” for “avenue”, and “Dve” for “drive”. The problem is that her capital “A's” look exactly like her capital “D's”……. so we always have to GUESS if we're going to 14th AVENUE, or 14th DRIVE.
So do you understand STEP ONE, journey? Do you understand that there was very little difference in the hand-written Greek text between “god” and “son”?
Externally, there are several variants, but they can be grouped essentially by whether they read θεός or υἱός. The majority of mss, especially the later ones (A C3 Θ Ψ Ë1,13 Ï lat), read ὁ μονογενὴς υἱός.
STEP TWO:
This part is simply telling us that MOST of the manuscripts, especially the later manuscripts, have “son”, and not “god”.Do you understand STEP TWO?
Ì75 א1 33 pc have ὁ μονογενὴς θεός, while the anarthrous μονογενὴς θεός is found in Ì66 א* B C* L pc. The articular θεός is almost certainly a scribal emendation to the anarthrous θεός, for θεός without the article is a much harder reading. The external evidence thus strongly supports μονογενὴς θεός.
STEP THREE:
This part is merely listing some of the different Greek manuscripts that have “god” instead of “son”.Do you understand STEP THREE?
Internally, although υἱός fits the immediate context more readily, θεός is much more difficult.
STEP FOUR:
This part is telling us that “only begotten SON” fits the context more readily than “only begotten GOD” would. They are pointing out that “only begotten GOD” is a much harder reading.(The scholars take the much harder reading as the original about 99% of the time. Their reason for doing so is that it is easy to see a later scribe “smoothing out” the original, because the original is a hard reading. It is much less likely that a later scribe would turn an already smooth reading into a harder one.)
Do you understand STEP FOUR?
As well, θεός also explains the origin of the other reading (υἱός), because it is difficult to see why a scribe who found υἱός in the text he was copying would alter it to θεός. Scribes would naturally change the wording to υἱός however, since μονογενὴς υἱός is a uniquely Johannine christological title (cf. John 3:16, 18; 1 John 4:9).
STEP FIVE:
This part is saying that an original hard reading of “only begotten GOD” would explain why the later mss have “only begotten SON”. The reasoning is that a later scribe would naturally see the oddly-worded “only begotten GOD”, and knowing that only one letter made the difference between “son” and “god”, would change it to “only begotten SON”…… because “only begotten SON” is a “uniquely Johannine christological title”. (That means John used the phrase “only begotten Son” a lot – as you've showed us with the scriptures you posted. It also means that John is the ONLY writer of scripture who used that phrase for Jesus.)Do you understand STEP FIVE? Do you understand how a copyist could read “only begotten god”, and think that was strangely worded, and, knowing that John often used the phrase “only begotten son”, opted to CHANGE it to “only begotten son” – thinking that perhaps the one letter that would differentiate between “son” and “god” was miswritten in the mss he was copying from?
But θεός as the older and more difficult reading is preferred.
STEP FIVE:
This part is simply saying what I said in STEP FOUR. The learned scholars almost always opt for the older and more difficult reading.Do you understand STEP FIVE?
journey, there are about 5 more paragraphs about this one verse in that NETNotes article. The information gets even more detailed than the parts I've posted here.
And there are a million other words written about this verse by a hundred other scholars.
The bottom line is that the older mss have “only begotten god”, and most of the newer ones have “only begotten son”.
Most English Bibles today opt for the “god” translation, because they figure the older mss are the correct ones, and that the newer mss reflect the CHANGES certain scribes made to the text when they thought “only begotten god” was too hard of a reading.
If you personally prefer “only begotten son” in this verse, I can't prove you wrong. But neither can you prove that the NWT – and all the many other English Bibles that have “god” instead of “son” – are wrong. Nor could you say that all the many other Bibles that have “god” instead of “son” in John 1:18 are trying to “keep Jesus out of the Bible as much as they can” – or whatever the lame claim you're making against the NWT is.
Bottom line: Nobody can honestly fault the KJV for having “only begotten son” in 1:18. And nobody can honestly fault the NWT, or any of the many other Bibles, for having “god” instead of “son” in 1:18.
Do you understand all of this? (I'd really like a YES or a NO)
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