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1 Ch 17:11 And it shall come to pass, when thy days be expired that thou must go [to be] with thy fathers, that I will raise up thy seed after thee, which shall be of thy sons; and I will establish his kingdom.
1Ch 17:12He shall build me an house, and I will stablish his throne for ever.
1Ch 17:13I will be his father, and he shall be my son: and I will not take my mercy away from him, as I took [it] from [him] that was before thee:
Quote (meerkat @ Dec. 09 2008,13:32) Virgin mothers giving birth to divine offspring is of pagan origin. For the sperm to be of the Holy spirit means that the sperm was not of the physical seed of David but divine – so half flesh Mary and half divine HS = pagan god/man
Hi meerkat, I am going through the site that you gave me.I do see where you are coming from with the whole pagan virgin thing, however the Holy Spirit was known to assist in the birth of barren woman, such as Sarah and Elizabeth, Jesus was fully human just as Isaac and John were. The sperm was no different then any other human sperm, it just got into the egg in a non natural way.
Because the Holy Spirit shows truth from error, I seek truth not tradition,
I am not saying I have all truth but my desire is for the truth – and when something does not jive with what I am being shown and one scripture does not support another, I will seek until I find not just ignore some scripture.
I like these discussions – keep giving more scripture – my mind is not closed but I am not going to accept something JUST because it is written.
You say you agree that some scripture is suspect and then turn around and say don't question scripture.
Hi MK,
The princilple of 2Cor 13 is useful1This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.
Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 10 2008,08:51) Quote (meerkat @ Dec. 09 2008,13:32) Virgin mothers giving birth to divine offspring is of pagan origin. For the sperm to be of the Holy spirit means that the sperm was not of the physical seed of David but divine – so half flesh Mary and half divine HS = pagan god/man
Hi meerkat, I am going through the site that you gave me.I do see where you are coming from with the whole pagan virgin thing, however the Holy Spirit was known to assist in the birth of barren woman, such as Sarah and Elizabeth, Jesus was fully human just as Isaac and John were. The sperm was no different then any other human sperm, it just got into the egg in a non natural way.
Hi Jodi,Nice to talk to you all!!!!
I think there is a difference to assisting barren women give birth to implanting a sperm from divine origin.
If we use fertility treatment on a woman and she gives birth it is different from artificial insemination using someone elses sperm.
Mary can not give birth to a male child by herself the seed for a male child given to david would need to come from a human male of the descent of david – otherwise the male child is divine flesh (which does not make sense to me with other scripture saying flesh is flesh and spirit is spirit)
Quote (meerkat @ Dec. 09 2008,13:56) Because the Holy Spirit shows truth from error, I seek truth not tradition, I am not saying I have all truth but my desire is for the truth – and when something does not jive with what I am being shown and one scripture does not support another, I will seek until I find not just ignore some scripture.
I like these discussions – keep giving more scripture – my mind is not closed but I am not going to accept something JUST because it is written.
You say you agree that some scripture is suspect and then turn around and say don't question scripture.
Meerkat I love your attitude it is very refreshing!So do you see a problem with looking at Luke 3 as Mary's genealogy? If Luke is showing that of Mary's, then doesn't she alone make Jesus of David's seed?
Jodi,
I do think that Mary's geneology is there as well – Jesus is king and priest – I have read that Mary's is the priestly line and Joseph's is the kingly line. (What I seem to balk at is believing that he was adopted into that kingly line)
The messianic prophecies seem to follow from David, Solomon, etc which is different from Mary's line.
Have you read anything about that?
Jodi,
Here is some info on pagan virgin mothers of trinitarian gods – the 2 concepts seem to be woven together.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/pcc/pcc11.htm
If you don't like that site you can search for others, if you want to read on it.
Quote (meerkat @ Dec. 09 2008,14:19) Jodi, Here is some info on pagan virgin mothers of trinitarian gods – the 2 concepts seem to be woven together.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/pcc/pcc11.htm
If you don't like that site you can search for others, if you want to read on it.
Thanks for the sites meerkat,I have actually read all about it before, and that is why I said it does seem to make the virgin birth rather suspicious.
You seem to be correct, I just got done reading another article talking about the curse, and it seems quite obvious that it had been lifted.
It does appear that the right to kingship must come from Solomon's line, therefore Jesus needs to be the son of Joseph. It does sound as if adoption by Joseph makes Jesus legal heir to the throne, however if there is no curse why the virgin birth? If there was no need for a virgin birth, then why would God perform one? Thus we come to your stance, where the only fit is that they created it to fit their previous held beliefs.
This is huge, because it's not just a mistranslated word or added word, or a comma in a wrong place, but a huge lie created within the text. That is unsettling to me.
Let's continue to investigate.
Jodi,
From how I see it I really don't think God is worried about “legal” heirs – that is mans traditions. Adultery is wrong not because of legality but because of morality.
Nowhere does God say that kings can be adopted, they have to be the firstborn of their actual blood father.
Jodi,
This has taken me a year to get as far as I have got and I must admit I have found some of it unsettling – I think it is the knowledge of the lies and deceptions – it cuts deep, nobody likes to be deceived and while people are deceived they BELIEVE the lie.
There is a whole web of deception started 1st century – it is not just trinity, ET, virgin birth, sabbath is another, it seems one thing leads to another.
I started another thread as well “antichrist” in (truth or tradition) – I think all the deceptions lead to a trinitarian God who is sitting in the temple of God – in people hearts.
Quote (meerkat @ Dec. 09 2008,15:16) Jodi, From how I see it I really don't think God is worried about “legal” heirs – that is mans traditions. Adultery is wrong not because of legality but because of morality.
Nowhere does God say that kings can be adopted, they have to be the firstborn of their actual blood father.
Hi Meerkat,I kind of found what you just said a little confusing.
If God says that kings have to be of blood relation to there father, isn't that creating a 'legal' issue to kingship?
I have actually read that an adopted son was seen as a blood son in regards to inheritance. As well I have read that if a woman's husband dies, then she would need to marry the husband's next of kin, and their child would legally be the son of the woman's first husband and the son would receive the dead husband's inheritance.
Not sure if any of this is Jewish law by their own traditions or if they were God's laws. If I recall from my reading it was the later to be true.
Jodi,
Hmmmmm,
I take back what I said about the firstborn being the heir to the throne. David was the youngest son of Jesse and Solomon was not firstborn either ……..
Do you know if there is a different word used for the adopted son and the blood son of a father?
I'm going to do a bit more thinking/reading ……
Quote (meerkat @ Dec. 09 2008,19:01) Jodi, Hmmmmm,
I take back what I said about the firstborn being the heir to the throne. David was the youngest son of Jesse and Solomon was not firstborn either ……..
Do you know if there is a different word used for the adopted son and the blood son of a father?
I'm going to do a bit more thinking/reading ……
Yes, I need to do some more studying as well. It has been over a year since I did some investigation on this topic, and I have forgotten many of the details.It sounds like you probably already know this but, there are cases in the OT where a father can give the firstborn rights away to the second born, if the firstborn has dishonored the family in anyway. I will look up the scriptures when I get the chance.
Adam, 'Son of God' was given all the earth to rule over, but he lost that position upon sinning, and every son after him of course then lost it as well, until Jesus came along that is. Jesus became the second Adam, taking over the inheritance Adam lost.
As to your question I don't know, I'll have to look into that too.
Can we find anything in the bible as to why God would choose a virgin birth?
When Genesis talks about God putting enmity between the woman's seed and the serpent's seed, I find that very interesting. The woman's seed we can assume is talking of Jesus, but why is it singled out as the Woman's Seed?
Hi Jodi,
Leviticus 21:1414A widow, or a divorced woman, or profane, or an harlot, these shall he not take: but he shall take a virgin of his own people to wife.
Quote (meerkat @ Dec. 10 2008,09:04) Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 10 2008,08:51) Quote (meerkat @ Dec. 09 2008,13:32) Virgin mothers giving birth to divine offspring is of pagan origin. For the sperm to be of the Holy spirit means that the sperm was not of the physical seed of David but divine – so half flesh Mary and half divine HS = pagan god/man
Hi meerkat, I am going through the site that you gave me.I do see where you are coming from with the whole pagan virgin thing, however the Holy Spirit was known to assist in the birth of barren woman, such as Sarah and Elizabeth, Jesus was fully human just as Isaac and John were. The sperm was no different then any other human sperm, it just got into the egg in a non natural way.
Hi Jodi,Nice to talk to you all!!!!
I think there is a difference to assisting barren women give birth to implanting a sperm from divine origin.
If we use fertility treatment on a woman and she gives birth it is different from artificial insemination using someone elses sperm.
Mary can not give birth to a male child by herself the seed for a male child given to david would need to come from a human male of the descent of david – otherwise the male child is divine flesh (which does not make sense to me with other scripture saying flesh is flesh and spirit is spirit)
Hi Sis Meerkat,
Those are wonderful arguments on virgin birth. I am fully with you on those arguments stating that the mystical child made of the union of Holy Spirit and Mary can not be real human like you and me. He has to be a child of human father and mother to be like us.Hi brother Nick,
Jesus was called not only a son of Mary but also as son of Joseph. Please see this scripture in Jn 6:42They kept saying, “This is Jesus, the son of Joseph, isn't it, whose father and mother we know? So how can he say, 'I have come down from heaven'?”
I also feel virgin birth makes Jesus some one different from normal human may be a demi-god if Holy Spirit is the literal Father of Jesus.
Good work Sis Meerkat, keep it up
Thanks and blessings
AdamHi GM,
That is not even a statement of truth but a question from the point of view of his neighbours.Jodi,
Yes – there is a history in the OT for the 1st being rejected Adam, Cain, Esau, ishmael etc, A paralell might be Jesus flesh crucified raised spirit ?? what do you think?
Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
The emnity is not between the serpent and the womans seed but between the seed of BOTH of them and between the woman and the serpent
Possibly why its the womans seed is she ate first and gave to Adam – he just followed the lead of the woman
The meaning of woman is H802
נשׁים אשּׁה
'ishshâh nâshîym
ish-shaw', naw-sheem'
The first form is the feminine of H376 or H582; the second form is an irregular plural; a woman (used in the same wide sense as H582).: – [adulter]ess, each, every, female, X many, + none, one, + together, wife, woman. Often unexpressed in English.
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