Virgin birth

[NickHassan]

Hi MK,
Indeed he was son of David according to the flesh and proven to be Son of God by the Resurrection.
Despite his death the faithful Spirit of God raised him and that is our hope too.

Rom1
3Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

4And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

[meerkat]

I am wondering if this verse has anything to do with mixing the curruptible with divinity (saying Jesus MUST be born of a virgin)

Rom 1:22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Rom 1:24Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

Rom 1:25Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

we are taught 1st is natural then spiritual

1Cr 15:46Howbeit that [was] not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

1Cr 15:47The first man [is] of the earth, earthy: the second man [is] the Lord from heaven.

1Cr 15:48As [is] the earthy, such [are] they also that are earthy: and as [is] the heavenly, such [are] they also that are heavenly.

1Cr 15:49And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

1Cr 15:50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

The virgin birth is needed for the trinity doctrine

[NickHassan]

Hi MK,
Why must we say scripture lies to disprove a lie?

[meerkat]

So how was he made of the seed of David if he did not have a human father –

Men have the chromosomes pairing of XY and women have the pairing of XX.

– Both the egg and the spermatozoa have 23 chromosomes.

– The egg is always the carrier of the X chromosome

– The spermatozoa can carry either an X or a Y chromosome.

This means that it is the male side that determines the sex of the baby.

For Jesus to be a male Messiah and to be born of the seed of david he needed a male descendant of David (ie Joseph) to be his Father.

[NickHassan]

Hi MK,
So trinity theory worships flesh [Jesus is a man].
Thus we see the sad curse inherited by those who are involved.

Mary is of earth and so Jesus is also truly a son of earthly man with sin to overcome.
He overcame sin in the flesh.

Rom8
1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

The flesh of Jesus did not inherit the heavenly kingdom and neither does ours.
The incorruptible is put on over the corruptible.

[meerkat]

We are not to worship scripture, we are told to study scripture to see if it is true. The Roman Catholic church compiled the NT – we have no original documents that the NT came from.

I do believe that most is intact – Satan is crafty (subtle) and does not always tell an outright lie – he twists it and mixes it.

[meerkat]

Yes, That is what it seems that a switch has been done and a false Messiah has been elevated saying he is human BUT is also divine while in the flesh – but other parts of the scripture say that the old man (flesh) needs to crucified FIRST then resurrection by the Holy Spirit can take place – the Holy Spirit is not a magic wand that covers sin.

[meerkat]

Mary does not give Jesus his right to throne of David his Father. Mary has been elevated to Mother of God.

Babylonian trinities have Father/ Mother/ Son – Mary and Holy Spirit in christianity seem to be tied togther somehow or interchangeable

[NickHassan]

Hi MK,
Not so.
We must be born again of water and the Spirit.

Washing is a plea for forgiveness by washing of the blood of Christ and thence only our feet need washed of the daily dust[Jn12,1Peter3]

The Spirit does sanctify but the vessel must first be cleansed.

[meerkat]

1 John 4:3   And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

G4561
σάρξ
sarx
sarx
Probably from the base of G4563; flesh (as stripped of the skin), that is, (strictly) the meat of an animal (as food), or (by extension) the body (as opposed to the soul (or spirit), or as the symbol of what is external, or as the means of kindred, or (by implication) human nature (with its frailties (physically or morally) and passions), or (specifically) a human being (as such): – carnal (-ly, + -ly minded), flesh ([-ly]).

This phrase of normally used by think it is saying the spirit of antichrist is God came in the flesh in Jesus

[meerkat]

Nick

I have nothing against baptism – I was infant baptised and at 14 – however literal water does not clean anything but the skin (it is a symbol)

It is a ritual that you can do but does not save or clean away your sins

Whenever baptism is used it does not specifically mean water it means immersion

[NickHassan]

Hi MK,
Indeed he came in the flesh- a true son of man.
Gen3
19In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

[meerkat]

Was he also a true son of david? – to be son of david he needed joseph as his father -otherwise he is the son of the holy spirit (x chromosome) and Mary (Y chromsome). And then we get into the fleshly God, divine son of God, who is God the Son theology.

[Jodi]

Hi meerkat,

I just got done going back and searching through the 'conception' thread, because I started to remember about the curse of Coniah, which is why God had to intervene with the birth of Jesus.

If Jesus was the biological son of Joseph he would receive the curse from being a descendant of Coniah/Jeconiah (Matthew 1 shows Joseph’s biological connection to Coniah).

Jeremiah 22:27 But they shall not return to the land to which they long to return. 28 Is this man Coniah a despised broken pot, a vessel no one wants? Why are he and his offspring hurled out and cast away in a land that they do not know? 29 O land, land, land, hear the word of the Lord! 30 Thus says the Lord: Record this man as childless, a man who shall not succeed in his days; for none of his offspring shall succeed in sitting on the throne of David, and ruling again in Judah.

Jesus could not be blood related to David through the line of Solomon because of Coniah. Solomon however carries the Royal line of kingship, which Jesus could still inherit through being the adopted son of Joseph.

Jesus has David's blood through Mary, which keeps the prophecy intact.

Jesus was born through the power of the Holy Spirit by the HS planting a sperm into Mary's egg.

[NickHassan]

Thanks Jodi

[meerkat]

Jodi

I think that the curse on Jeconiah – God might have cursed him but he also can lift that curse after repentance.

Man seems to put limits on what God can and can not do and then builds traditions and theologies to support the limitations that they percieve.

You might find this interesting http://www.messianicart.com/chazak/yeshua/jeconiah.htm

I am wondering if Jeconiah is a type of the flesh and dies and does not inherit the kingdom of God and Zerubbabel is the type of the risen Christ that does inherit all

[meerkat]

Virgin mothers giving birth to divine offspring is of pagan origin.

For the sperm to be of the Holy spirit means that the sperm was not of the physical seed of David but divine – so half flesh Mary and half divine HS = pagan god/man

[NickHassan]

Hi MK,
Certainly satan has mimicked the ways of God in his fraudulent religions

[NickHassan]

Hi MK,
Flesh=man
Gen3
19In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

[meerkat]

But God promised David that of {his}seed that the messish would be raised not that he would use the seed of the Holy Spirit

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