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Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 20 2007,07:35) Quote (Unisage @ May 20 2007,02:49) Quote (Is 1:18 @ May 19 2007,19:28) Safer to overestimate the Son, than to underestimate Him. That's what I think.
Jesus is the prophet like unto Moses, the seed of Abraham, the rod, the branch, the Lion of the Tribe of Judah, the seed of David, the Son of David, the Root and the Offspring of David, a man anointed by God, the Lamb, the Holy One of God, the Son of God, the CHRIST!Alot of people dont want to talk about The Line of King Daivd.
What caught my attention is John.The Parents of John were well Stricken in years.For another words they didnt have any Children or couldnt have.But yet nothing is mention about this wonderful event ..Where the Holy Spirit visit Elizabeth.And she also had the Holy Spirit in her Womb.
When you compare Mary and Elizabeth BIRTHS.Something is wrong..
I will stop here for now.
Hi u,
Not so IMHO.John was conceived in the normal fashion and filled with the Spirit while in the womb of Elizabeth.
Lk1
13But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.Luke 1:15
For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.Luke 1:44
For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.Elizabeth too was filled with that Spirit.
Luke 1:41
And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:John was a son of man.
Jesus was son of man and son of God.
John filled with the Spirit from the womb.
Christ filled with the Spirit at the Jordan.
NickShow me where they had normal Sexual relationship..
or do you assume that they have? Aaaaaah you cant can you.Take special notice where God came on others as well.No different then he did with Mary.When reading these other special births note that verses never speak of the husbands having relations with their wives. It is naturally expected that they would, as that is how a child is conceived. The same should be assumed for Mary and Joseph.
The birth of Issac is especially interesting as it is God that visited and God that did unto Sarah yet it was the child of Abraham through normal sexual relations. God come upon Sarah to heal her womb and enable her to conceive in the same way the he came upon Mary and ensured she would conceive upon having relations with Joseph.
Isaac
Genesis 16:1 Now Sarai Abram’s wife bare him no children: and she had an handmaid, an Egyptian, whose name was Hagar…..
Genesis 17:19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him…..
Genesis 21:1-3 ¶ And the LORD visited Sarah as he had said, and the LORD did unto Sarah as he had spoken. For Sarah conceived, and bare Abraham a son in his old age, at the set time of which God had spoken to him. And Abraham called the name of his son that was born unto him, whom Sarah bare to him, Isaac.
Jacob
Genesis 25:21 And Isaac intreated the LORD for his wife, because she was barren: and the LORD was intreated of him, and Rebekah his wife conceived.
Joseph
Genesis 29:31 And when the LORD saw that Leah was hated, he opened her womb: but Rachel was barren….
Genesis 30:1 And when Rachel saw that she bare Jacob no children, Rachel envied her sister; and said unto Jacob, Give me children, or else I die. 2 And Jacob’s anger was kindled against Rachel: and he said, Am I in God’s stead, who hath withheld from thee the fruit of the womb?
Genesis 30:22 And God remembered Rachel, and God hearkened to her, and opened her womb. 23 And she conceived, and bare a son; and said, God hath taken away my reproach: 24 And she called his name Joseph; and said, The LORD shall add to me another son.
Samson
Judges 13:2 And there was a certain man of Zorah, of the family of the Danites, whose name was Manoah; and his wife was barren, and bare not.
3 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto the woman, and said unto her, Behold now, thou art barren, and bearest not: but thou shalt conceive, and bear a son…
24 And the woman bare a son, and called his name Samson: and the child grew, and the LORD blessed him.
John
Luke 1:7 And they had no child, because that Elisabeth was barren, and they both were now well stricken in years…
Luke 1: 13-17 But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John. And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth. For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother’s womb. And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God. And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord…
Luke 1:24 And after those days his wife Elisabeth conceived, and hid herself five months …Isaiah wrote:
Well yes, you're correct, Yeshua's heavenly Father really was His Father.
***************
Father = male parent, originator [beginning]If God is really Jesus' heavenly Father, then the Father gave Jesus his beginning; and that was at birth.
Otherwise, you and I have a different definition of “Father.”You write:
But I believe He became a Father to Jesus at the incarnation.
*****************************
Again, a true “Father” is a parent to their offspring. They are not somehow “included” with their offspring; nor do they co-exist as a person “within” their offspring. Here is the difference exactly – I believe God is the true Father of our Lord Jesus – you believe he is a father only in the sense of the name or title. For if God incarnated himself into the man known as Jesus (even if he is only existing a long side of Jesus), he is not a true Father. Let me re-phrase that; he is not a true father in the way that we understand language today.Hebrews 1:5 describes God's love for his beloved. He is saying, “Son – you're the ultimate!” Like he saying, “Boy – I'm you're Daddy, and you are my boy!” It's a happy thing
I don't believe it has any hidden message that goes beyond a father/son relationship. Other than the obvious, which is God has exhaulted his Son. And why shouldn't he? He's proud of him! You write:
Notice that in the context of this passage the Father is addressing Yeshua. There was obviously a time when He was alive, able to be addressed, but not yet a Son. Otherwise why would he say with a future tense “I will be a Father” and “He shall be a Son”?
**********************************
Regarding Psalm 2 where parts of the passages in Hebrews was taken: in this prophet message it says the King will be installed on Zion, the holy hill. Has that happened yet? Then it goes on to talk about Jesus receiving the nations as an inheritence. Has that happened yet? With this in mind, it is difficult for me to read into the passage in Hebrews that God was referring to a pre-existent Son.There are a lot of things that “will be” that are not yet. However, you can be certain that God is the Father of our Lord Jesus in the true sense – because Jesus told us so. If he was an incarnation instead of a true Son – he would have told us; not through codes (scriptures here and there to piece together – left to our own deducing), but in clear language like, for example, this passage:
1 John 4:9, 10
This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only *begotten* Son into the world that we might live through him. This is love: not that we love God, but that he loved us and sent his Son an an anointing sacrifice for our sins.My feeling is this: if Jesus were an incarnation of God instead of the true Son of God……..we would be taught something different than that we read in 1 John.
We would have been taught something clearer like: This is how God shows his love to us: He came down and lives along side of this man, Jesus. He is Jesus. Jesus is another part of God and they co-exist together so that they can do the job of two natures; one divine and the other man……. And you can see where I'm headed. But I don't read that in scripture. I can see it when it is pieced together, sort of. But it is not a clear teaching of the Bible, imho.
Quote (Unisage @ May 25 2007,04:11) Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 20 2007,07:35) Quote (Unisage @ May 20 2007,02:49) Quote (Is 1:18 @ May 19 2007,19:28) Safer to overestimate the Son, than to underestimate Him. That's what I think.
Jesus is the prophet like unto Moses, the seed of Abraham, the rod, the branch, the Lion of the Tribe of Judah, the seed of David, the Son of David, the Root and the Offspring of David, a man anointed by God, the Lamb, the Holy One of God, the Son of God, the CHRIST!Alot of people dont want to talk about The Line of King Daivd.
What caught my attention is John.The Parents of John were well Stricken in years.For another words they didnt have any Children or couldnt have.But yet nothing is mention about this wonderful event ..Where the Holy Spirit visit Elizabeth.And she also had the Holy Spirit in her Womb.
When you compare Mary and Elizabeth BIRTHS.Something is wrong..
I will stop here for now.
Hi u,
Not so IMHO.John was conceived in the normal fashion and filled with the Spirit while in the womb of Elizabeth.
Lk1
13But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.Luke 1:15
For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.Luke 1:44
For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.Elizabeth too was filled with that Spirit.
Luke 1:41
And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:John was a son of man.
Jesus was son of man and son of God.
John filled with the Spirit from the womb.
Christ filled with the Spirit at the Jordan.
NickShow me where they had normal Sexual relationship..
or do you assume that they have? Aaaaaah you cant can you.Take special notice where God came on others as well.No different then he did with Mary.When reading these other special births note that verses never speak of the husbands having relations with their wives. It is naturally expected that they would, as that is how a child is conceived. The same should be assumed for Mary and Joseph.
The birth of Issac is especially interesting as it is God that visited and God that did unto Sarah yet it was the child of Abraham through normal sexual relations. God come upon Sarah to heal her womb and enable her to conceive in the same way the he came upon Mary and ensured she would conceive upon having relations with Joseph.
Isaac
Genesis 16:1 Now Sarai Abram’s wife bare him no children: and she had an handmaid, an Egyptian, whose name was Hagar…..
Genesis 17:19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him…..
Genesis 21:1-3 ¶ And the LORD visited Sarah as he had said, and the LORD did unto Sarah as he had spoken. For Sarah conceived, and bare Abraham a son in his old age, at the set time of which God had spoken to him. And Abraham called the name of his son that was born unto him, whom Sarah bare to him, Isaac.
Jacob
Genesis 25:21 And Isaac intreated the LORD for his wife, because she was barren: and the LORD was intreated of him, and Rebekah his wife conceived.
Joseph
Genesis 29:31 And when the LORD saw that Leah was hated, he opened her womb: but Rachel was barren….
Genesis 30:1 And when Rachel saw that she bare Jacob no children, Rachel envied her sister; and said unto Jacob, Give me children, or else I die. 2 And Jacob’s anger was kindled against Rachel: and he said, Am I in God’s stead, who hath withheld from thee the fruit of the womb?
Genesis 30:22 And God remembered Rachel, and God hearkened to her, and opened her womb. 23 And she conceived, and bare a son; and said, God hath taken away my reproach: 24 And she called his name Joseph; and said, The LORD shall add to me another son.
Samson
Judges 13:2 And there was a certain man of Zorah, of the family of the Danites, whose name was Manoah; and his wife was barren, and bare not.
3 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto the woman, and said unto her, Behold now, thou art barren, and bearest not: but thou shalt conceive, and bear a son…
24 And the woman bare a son, and called his name Samson: and the child grew, and the LORD blessed him.
John
Luke 1:7 And they had no child, because that Elisabeth was barren, and they both were now well stricken in years…
Luke 1: 13-17 But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John. And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth. For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother’s womb. And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God. And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord…
Luke 1:24 And after those days his wife Elisabeth conceived, and hid herself five months …
Hi U,
Interesting.However surely you do not infer that when God heals infertility He interferes in normal human conception?
Mary was not said to be infertile anyway so the issue is different.
Unisage writes:
Show me where they had normal Sexual relationship..
************************
Luke 1:18 – 24 in part
“Zechariah asked the angel, “How can I be sure of this? I am an old man……when his time of service was completed, he returned home. AFTER THIS his wife Elizabeth became pregnant…….”When men leave home on a long business trip, for example, what do you think they do when they finally are in the arms of the one they love? It's only natural to *assume* that Zechariah and Elizabeth made love. After all, Zechariah was told by Gab that he was going to have a son – I'm sure Zechariah knew what needed to happen for this to be so. His only worry was that he didn't have enough Mojo (he was old), but Gab told him not to worry that God would do this for him (not physically make Elizabeth pregnant – and not a sort of virgin birth) but that Zechariah was about to receive a promise through the women he loved and was faithful to for so many years. You can image his joy!
And so it was AFTER Zechariah arrived home that Elizabeth conceived……. This is not complicated stuff. This is using what God has wired us with to draw these simple conclusions. Anyway, that is how I see it, I know others have their ideas as well.
Hi not3,
You quote
“1 John 4:9, 10
This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only *begotten* Son into the world that we might live through him. This is love: not that we love God, but that he loved us and sent his Son an an anointing sacrifice for our sins.”ONLY BEGOTTEN here is one greek word – MONOGENES
GENNAO is different and I will bring up the thread.
Hi,
The virgin birth of Christ is one of the examples of the NT revealing more of the truth of the OT.
It was essential that Mary could not be accused of sexual sin and that no confusion could arise as to the paternity of the Son of God.Nick What is important to understand tho, is that She did not stay a Virgin like the Catholic Church claims. They pray to Her etc. That is not according to scipture and is wrong. That was the most important doctrine that was so upsetting to me when I first started to read the Bible. Millions of people are still being deceived and belief in the Virgin Mary and call Her Holy, even prayed to.
Since we werre in that Church from birth till we were over 40 years old, I somewhat understand, because we had everything in Latin and then we had the Catichism. But now more and more understanding is coming to light and some have left the Church, us including. So very sad.Peace and Love Mrs.
Hi Im4.
Indeed. Once they had decided that Jesus is our God and not a man it was a small step to state that therefore Mary was the mother of God. Then of course the mother of God have to be a demigod rather than a normal woman and they decided she went to heaven too and should be worshiped.The imaginative follies of greek wisdom applied to a lie.
I agree she was a wife to Joseph after the birth of Jesus and he had at several half brothers, one of whom, James ,was a disciple of Jesus and a sister called Salome.
Thank you brother Nick,
I want to debate on this topic for some time now. Here I am quoting some of the arguments of a Jew who rejects the Virgin birth of Jesus-” Christianity has been trying for 2000 years to prove the impossible. the hebrew bible does not prophecy the birth of jesus.the hebrew bible belongs to the jews. Christianity cannot exist without the hebrew bible. the christians have deliberately mistranslated hundreds of verses to prove the coming of Jesus.The last time I looked the name of Jesus could not be found in the Hebrew bible.Funny isnt it. The christians have even gone so far as to put the hebrew bible books in a different order than found in the tanach. That is really nerve isnt it? Even calling the hebrew bible the old testament is a deliberate act. i am sure you know why that was done. that also took some nerve.There were a number of errors in your article, but I will only touch on one. The word of parthenos you said meant virgin. what you also forgot to include was that it also means maiden.The most colossal of the blunders of the Septuagint translators, supplemented by the most insidious, persistent and purposeful falsification of text in The King James Bibles, is instanced in the false translation of the Notoriously false pretended “prophecy” of Isaiah 7:14, — frauds which have had the most disastrous and fatal consequences for Christianity.
In the “Gospel according to St. Matthew KJV,” the Septuagint translation of Isaiah, the Jewish Mary yielding to the embraces of the Angel Gabriel to engender Jesus, and backs it up by appeal to the Septuagint translation of Isaiah 7:14:
“Behold, a Virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel.” (Matt. 1:23.)
“Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a Virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.” (Isa. 7:14)
Isaiah's original Hebrew, with the mistranslated words underscored, reads: “Hinneh ha-almah harah ve-yeldeth ben ve-karath shem-o immanuel”; — which, falsely translated by the false pen of the pious translators, runs thus in the English: “Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel” (Isa. vii, 14.)
The Hebrew words ha-almah mean simply the young woman; and harah is the Hebrew past or perfect tense, “conceived,” which in Hebrew, as in English, represents past and completed action. Honestly translated, the verse reads: “Behold, the young woman has conceived — (is with child) — and beareth a son and calleth his name Immanuel.”
The actual Hebrew words, read from right to left, and transliterated, so that the reader who knows no Hebrew may at least catch some words already become familiar, are:
“laken yittan adonai hu lakem oth hinneh ha-almah harah ve-yeldeth ben ve-karath shem-o immanuel.”
Literally translated into English, in the exact order of the Hebrew words, the “prophecy” reads:
“Therefore shall-give my-lord he [himself] to you sign behold the-maid conceived (is pregnant) and-beareth son and- calleth name-his immanuel.”
Here the word harah (conceived) is the Hebrew perfect tense, which, as in English, represents past and completed action; there is not the remotest hint of future tense or time. Being the Young Woman is pregnant she is surely not a Virgin.
Almah means simply a young woman, of marriageable age, whether married or not, or a virgin or not; in a broad general sense exactly like girl or maid in English, when we say shop-girl, parlor-maid, bar-maid, without reference to or vouching for her technical virginity, which, in Hebrew, is always expressed by the word bethulah. But in the Septuagint translation into Greek, the Hebrew almah was erroneously rendered into the Greek parthenos, Virgin.
“As early as the second century B.C.,” says the distinguished Hebrew scholar and critic, Salomon Reinach, “the Jews perceived the error and pointed it out to the Greeks; but the Church knowingly persisted in the false reading, and for over fifteen centuries she has clung to her error.” (Orpheus, p, 197.) The truth of this accusation of conscious persistence in known error through the centuries is proved by confession of St. Jerome, who made the celebrated Vulgate translation from the Hebrew into Latin, and intentionally “clung to the error,” though Jerome well knew that it was an error and false; and thus he perpetuated through fifteen hundred years the myth of the “Prophetic Virgin Birth” of Jesus called Christ.
Being criticized by many for this falsification, St. Jerome thus replies to one of his critics, Juvianus: “I know that the Jews are accustomed to meet us with the objection that in Hebrew the word Almah does not mean a Virgin, but a young woman. And, to speak truth, a virgin is properly called Bethulah, but a young woman, or a girl, is not Almah, but Naarah”! (Jerome, Adv. Javianum I, 32; N&PNF, vi, 370.)
So insistent was the criticism, that he was driven to write a book on the subject, in which he makes a very notable confession of the inherent incredibility of the Holy Ghost paternity-story “For who at that time would have believed the Virgin's word that she had conceived of the Holy Ghost, and that the angel Gabriel had come and announced the purpose of God? and would not all have given their opinion against her as an adulteress, like Susanna? For at the present day, now that the whole world has embraced the faith, the Jews argue, that when Isaiah says, 'Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son,' the Hebrew word denotes a young woman, not a Virgin, that is to say, the word is ALMAH, not BETHULAH”! (St. Jerome, The Perpetual Virginity of Blessed Mary).
So it is not some indefinite “a virgin” who 750 years in the future “shall conceive” and “shall bear” a son whose name she “shall call” Immanuel, Jesus; but it was some known and definite young female, married or un-married — but not a “virgin” — who had already conceived and was already pregnant, and who beareth a son and calleth his name Immanuel, …who should be the “sign” which “my lord” should give to Ahaz of the truth of Isaiah's prophecy regarding the pending war with Israel and Syria, as related in Isaiah Chapter 7, and of which the total context is proven in 2 Chronicles 28, as all may read.
“Modern Christian Theologians does not grant that Isaiah 7:14, contains a real prophecy fulfilled in the Virgin Birth of Christ; it must maintain, therefore, that St. Matthew misunderstood the passage when he said: 'Now all this was done that it might be fulfilled which the Lord spoke by the prophet, saying, Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and bring forth a son, etc.”! (CE. xv, 451.)
Thus is apparent, and confessed, the dishonesty of “Matthew” and of the Church of Christ in perverting this idle, false and falsified text of Isaiah into a “Prophecy of the Virgin Birth of Jesus Christ,” and in persisting in retaining this falsity in their dishonest Bibles as the basis of their own Universities Of Theology unto this day of the Twentieth Century. The Church, full knowing its falsity, yet, clings to this precious lie of The Virgin Birth and all the concatenated consequences. Thus it declares its own condemnation as false.Why do Jews Reject the Christian dogma of the
Virgin Birth?
(The Second Jewish Book Of Why)
(By Alfred Kolatch 1985)Based on Isaiah 7:14, Christians claim that the birth of Jesus was predicted long before the event. The verse reads, “Behold, the alma shall conceive and bear a son and shall call him Immanuel [literally, ‘God is with us’].” Although the Hebrew word alma literally means “young woman,” when the Gospel of Matthew (1:23) cites the verse from Isaiah, it translates Alma as “Virgin.” This translation is useful in supporting the contention that the miraculous birth of Jesus was predicted in the Old Testament.
Jewish scholars reject the idea of the Virgin Birth because, they point out, in Isaiah 7:14 the word Alma is part of the Hebrew phrase ha-alma hara, meaning
“the alma is pregnant.” Since the present tense is used, it is clear that the young woman was already pregnant and hence not a virgin. This being the case, the verse cannot be cited as a prediction of the future.
Jewish scholars, supported by many Christian scholars, have also noted that the word alma in Isaiah 7:14 cannot mean “virgin” because elsewhere when the Bible wants to specify “virgin,” it uses the Hebrew word betula.
When the Revised Standard Version of the Bible was issued in 1952, the words “young woman,” not the word “Virgin, were used for alma in its translation of Isaiah 7:14. This upset the Fundamentalist Christian community, which maintains that alma in Isaiah refers to the mother of Jesus, who conceived miraculously, without cohabitation with a man. These Fundamentalists expressed their vehement opposition to the new translation by holding burnings of the Revised Edition of the Bible.”Please submit your comments on these arguments.
Thanks and peace to you
AdamAdam….I agree that the word alma means “young woman” years ago i got into it with a bunch of Jews and they proved right on that matter, however what about the others prophecies by Isaiah With regards to Jesus. Such as Isaiah 53 which describe Jesus completely. And many more in there scriptures. Remember Adam most reject Christ completely, there are some who now are beginning to except Him and do see where Jesus fits into scriptures of the first testament.
love and peace my brother……………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 21 2008,04:34) Adam….I agree that the word alma means “young woman” years ago i got into it with a bunch of Jews and they proved right on that matter, however what about the others prophecies by Isaiah With regards to Jesus. Such as Isaiah 53 which describe Jesus completely. And many more in there scriptures. Remember Adam most reject Christ completely, there are some who now are beginning to except Him and do see where Jesus fits into scriptures of the first testament. love and peace my brother……………..gene
Hello Gene! Good to see you. As far as the Virgin Maria is concerned, Catholic's still believe that Maria stayed a Virgin, but that of course is not true. It also is a hard for a Catholic to understand that She had other Children. I used to say “no way.” That is before God opened my eyes.
Thanks be to God.
Peace and Lve IreneQuote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 21 2008,04:34) Adam….I agree that the word alma means “young woman” years ago i got into it with a bunch of Jews and they proved right on that matter, however what about the others prophecies by Isaiah With regards to Jesus. Such as Isaiah 53 which describe Jesus completely. And many more in there scriptures. Remember Adam most reject Christ completely, there are some who now are beginning to except Him and do see where Jesus fits into scriptures of the first testament. love and peace my brother……………..gene
Welcome back brother Gene,
Good to see you posting on Heavennet. I know you will not leave this wonderful family of God's children. I agree with you on Virgin birth of Jesus but we have to know many things from even Jews about their Messiah. It is our responsibility to preach them good news of Jesus. Please share more on this topic.Thanks and love to you
AdamQuote (Tiffany @ Oct. 21 2008,06:06) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 21 2008,04:34) Adam….I agree that the word alma means “young woman” years ago i got into it with a bunch of Jews and they proved right on that matter, however what about the others prophecies by Isaiah With regards to Jesus. Such as Isaiah 53 which describe Jesus completely. And many more in there scriptures. Remember Adam most reject Christ completely, there are some who now are beginning to except Him and do see where Jesus fits into scriptures of the first testament. love and peace my brother……………..gene
Hello Gene! Good to see you. As far as the Virgin Maria is concerned, Catholic's still believe that Maria stayed a Virgin, but that of course is not true. It also is a hard for a Catholic to understand that She had other Children. I used to say “no way.” That is before God opened my eyes.
Thanks be to God.
Peace and Lve Irene
How can Catholic's say, “No way.” to Mary having other children when the bible clearly says she did? That has always puzzled me?Quote How can Catholic's say, “No way.” to Mary having other children when the bible clearly says she did? That has always puzzled me? I used to discuss the Bible with a lady who said that topic was off limits. If I mentioned it, the conversation was over.
Adam…..when dealing with the Jew's with regards to Jesus, there are certain things they resent, one is the Ideology of a Triune God head, another is the preexistence of Jesus, and of course His messiah ship. They are deeply involved in there traditions and the law or Torah. While i agree with them on there views against the trinity and preexistence of Jesus, i of course disagree with there rejection of Jesus' Messiah Ship, and many of there traditions which only foster Pride and self righteousness. We true Christians have a better covenant based on far better promises , no where was eternal life promised to them in their Testament, While paganism has tainted some of our scriptures, we still have the best covenant and promises. With God's Spirit we can weed through these translation errors easily and it may be God wanted it this way so that we rely on Him to guide our understanding, to hide pride from us and keep us humble. Remember we are to grow in Grace and Knowledge , this shows it is a growing process for us all. IMO
love to you and yours…………….gene
Hi GB,
Jesus explained to the rich young man in Mt 19 who asked what he could DO to INHERIT the kingdom and he was told to obey the Commandments. He then went beyond that to offer the way of Christ when the young man was not satisfied.Indeed the faithful older son INHERITS the kingdom[lk15].
The true Olive tree, does INHERIT, and we in Christ are grafted into that tree.
But Jesus then tightened the OT Law given only to the Israelites and made obedience to be perfect obedience thus effectively closing that door.
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