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Quote (gollamudi @ Sep. 01 2010,20:18) Hi brothers Professor and Kerwin, The virgin birth is nothing but pius fraud invented by the writers of Matthew and Luke. Hebrew scriptures never meant for so called Christian Messiah. But Christian writers made it meant their way.
Think over
Adam
Hi Adam,Would you expect us to put ‘your opinion’ above “The Scriptures”?
1Thess.5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
Where is the proof of 'your' (FALSE) assertion?Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold,
a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.Mathew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son,
and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.Hebrews 7:28 For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but
the word(HolySpirit) of the oath, which was since the law (Luke 1:35),
maketh the Son(Jesus Christ), who is consecrated for evermore.I strongly suggest you take God's word seriously, or else it should be suggested to
relegate you to the Skeptics section as a non-Believer! (Matt.18:14-18 / Luke 21:34-35)(117)יהוה האלהים = “God Spirit”(117)
John 4:24 (יהוה) God is Spirit=117 and they that
worship him must worship in spirit and in truth.“YHVH is GOD”=117
PSALM 117 is [The Bible's Center Chapter],
the [smallest chapter] of the [LARGEST BOOK]!Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
117=יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)Quote (davidbfun @ Sep. 03 2010,13:07) Quote (gollamudi @ Sep. 02 2010,04:18) Hi brothers Professor and Kerwin,
So you think God protected the so called 'word of God' in Christian Bibles? If so why there are errors and contradictions?
The virgin birth is nothing but pius fraud invented by the writers of Matthew and Luke. Hebrew scriptures never meant for so called Christian Messiah. But Christian writers made it meant their way.
Think over
Adam
Hello Adam,Why aren't you listed as a “skeptic”? If you don't believe in the Bible, why would you bother posting in the believers' section?
Hi DBF,This is a “Good question”!
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (gollamudi @ Sep. 09 2010,22:21) Then who was human father of Jesus if Mary had not have sex with her husband with whom she was already betrothed?
Hi Adam,1Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, …(John 3:16)
even so in Christ shall all be made alive. (John 6:37-40)What does the combination of Eph.4:6 combined with Matt.1:18, Matt.1:20 and Luke 1:35 say to you?
Matt.1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused
to Joseph, before they came (consummated) together, she was found with child of the HolySpirit.
Matt.1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto
him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife:
for that which is conceived in her is of the HolySpirit. (Son of the HolySpirit = Son of God)
Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The HolySpirit shall come upon
thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that
holy thing(Jesus) which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.Jesus lineage explained
“Son of Man”: 25%; Mary's mother's lineage was of the tribe of Levi. (Luke 1:5, 1:36)
“Son of Man”: 25%: Mary's father's lineage was (Judah) through Nathan(son of David). (Luke 3:23-31)
“Son of God”: 50%: Jesus' Father was the “HolySpirit”; NOT Joseph! (Mathew 1:18 / Mathew 1:20 / Luke 1:35)Birth: Jesus was 50% HolySpirit(God)(Matt.1:18 / Matt.1:20 / Luke 1:35), 25% Levite(Priest) and 25% Judah(King)!
Baptism by John the baptizer, Jesus was filled with the HolySpirit(God) beyond measure! (John 3:34 / John 1:14)Here is why Jesus is called both the “Son of Man” and the “Son of God”…
Mother Father
Mary HolySpirit
50% 50%
\ /
\ /
Jesus
/ \
/ \
/ \
Son of Man Son of God
(Mark 6:3) (Luke 1:35)Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)Hi brother Ed J,
Thanks for your responses above for my posts on Virgin Birth. Brother DavidbFun and yourself categorised me as a Skeptic. Infact everyone of us in this forum is Skeptic in one way or the other as we criticise the doctrines of others. See for youself in all the threads of this forum. Without skeptical outlook we can not learn anything in this forum. If we have blind faith we need not debate any thing here in this forum. At times I criticise the errors in the books of the Bible whether they are biased or intentional but that doesn't mean I have fully become a non-believer.Hope you will see the honesty in my search for truth in the scriptures.
Peace to you
AdamHi brother Ed J,
As per your estimation of Jesus' birth as man he can claim only 25% from the tribe of Judah. If he is 50% of Holy Spirit he was not pure human like you and me who are 100%. How can God be Father without becoming husband first if you claim Holy Spirit causing 50% for Jesus' sonship? How can God be husband of some woman who was already betrothed to another? Is there any proof for your logic of 25% Levite and 25% Judah as per your estimation above? What was the necessity of Virgin Birth of Jesus? Could Jesus be counted sinless as per the so called Virgin Birth even by considering his birth without human male involvement? Was Mary sinless? How can her child be sinless?…so on and so forth..These are questions run through my mind when I read the Virgin Birth narrations in Gospels of Matthew and Luke. So far I could not get proper answers for questions.
AdamQuote (gollamudi @ Sep. 10 2010,18:01) Hi brother Ed J,
As per your estimation of Jesus' birth as man he can claim only 25% from the tribe of Judah. If he is 50% of Holy Spirit he was not pure human like you and me who are 100%. (1)How can God be Father without becoming husband first if you claim Holy Spirit causing 50% for Jesus' sonship? (2)How can God be husband of some woman who was already betrothed to another? (3)Is there any proof for your logic of 25% Levite (4)and 25% Judah as per your estimation above? (5)What was the necessity of Virgin Birth of Jesus? (6)Could Jesus be counted sinless as per the so called Virgin Birth even by considering his birth without human male involvement? (7)Was Mary sinless? (8)How can her child be sinless?…(9)so on and so forth..These are questions run through my mind when I read the Virgin Birth narrations in Gospels of Matthew and Luke. So far I could not get proper answers for questions.
Adam
Hi Adam,I'm glad ‘you’ are using ‘your’ “Free Will” to discourse with me!
Isaiah 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD…
In the future ‘only’ one question Per-Post, allow more room for answers.1) Are you suggesting God got to “Mary” first?
2) Hosea 2:16
3) Luke 1:5 / Luke 1:36
4) Luke 3:23-31
5) 1Corinthians 15:22
6) Yea
7) Matt.7:1
8) Leviticus 18:5
9) Matt.7:7 / 2Tm.2:13What do you consider a proper answer? (Mt.5:37 / 2Tm.2:13 / Job 36:2)
2Cor.1:17-20 When I therefore was thus minded, did I use lightness?
or the things that I purpose, do I purpose according to the flesh, that
with me there should be yea yea, and nay nay? But as God is true, our
word toward you was not yea and nay. For the Son of God, Jesus Christ,
who was preached among you by us, even by me and Silvanus and Timotheus,
was not yea and nay, but in him was yea. For all the promises of God in him yea,
and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us. (Romans 8:17 / Romans 8:29-30)“YHVH is GOD”=117
PSALM 117 is [The Bible's Center Chapter],
the [smallest chapter] of the [LARGEST BOOK]!Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 48:16 / Isaiah 60:14)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)Thanks brother Ed J for the bump. Infact I left this thread for long time now. I am not convinced of all Chrisitan replies for my queries on Virgin Birth. If the Holy Spirit was the fleshly father of Jesus then Mary must have commited adultry as per Jewish Law. I can only consider Jesus birth as the creation of God in the womb of Mary even with man's involvement which I feel immaterial for God's creation. But Christianity insists for Virgin Birth which can only happen in Pagan mythologies but not in Jewish scriptures.
Peace to you
AdamAdam,
Your words unintentionally, I hope, limit the power of God as all things are possible for God. He created Adam from soil and Eve from a part of Adam so why can he not create Jesus from a part of Mary, who is a descendant of David.
Hi brother Kerwin, Greetings to you after a long time. If your words are true why not God choose a perpetual Virgin instead of a betrothed woman who had leagally become another man's wife? What is the necessity of a Virgin Birth for a so called man Jesus if he was really a man. Could virgin birth make him pure even by knowing his mother was a human being born of normal birth from her parents? I don't see any logic in such mythological stories invented by Mathew, Luke and their community. If Jesus had to be filled with Spirit at his baptism to do miracles and good deeds why necessary for a so called virgin birth which can not make him sinless by itself.
These are the questions being raised in my mind for years together.
Hope you will understand my agony.
Peace to you
AdamHi Adam. I had questions, I never understood the answers I was given. Untill I was given answers which were exactly what scripture meant, I could see it. Once you have your answers, and they are there, its ok. But they are there. Having the right person helps. I believe God sends sometimes the right person to help. Watch what anyone else says. Keep to what the one says, it's what I found. You will know who the person is.
Adam………The story of Jesus Virgin berth does seem to cause some wonder as to why did not the other Disciples ever mention it and Paul's did not even make one mention of the it nor Peter and John either, you would think they all would have written about it, right. You do have a good point in my opinion , i discussed years ago with the Jews about the scriptures in Isaiah, about the Emanuel thing and i believe they were right in this picture part of scripture , Emanuel was Isaiah's son given to the king as a Sign to the king of Judah regarding the invasion of the armies of Israel and others to attack Judah and destory it. So i am is somewhat of a reserve about the total accuracy of those scripture also. I am not really convinced either way brother.
Peace and love to you and yours……………………………….gene
Adam,
God does not reveal all his mysteries to me so perhaps I cannot answer all the questions you ask but I do know God is righteous and does everything to further his righteous plan. The virgin conception and birth like the star of Bethlehem is a sign of the Messiah and may be nothing more. God chose Mary because I believe she had no brothers and so inherited the line of David from her father. In addition she was alive during the right age. The name of her father would have ended with her if she remained unmarried and that was considered a tragedy to the Hebrew people so she would find choosing to not marry and bear children as a sin. She married Joseph to keep the inheritance in the same tribe.
I disagree with the tenet that Jesus was filled with the spirit at his baptism by John. I believe he was granted the power to do miracles at that time. He was enabled to live by the Spirit of God even in his mother’s womb and so was able to resist the devil’s temptation all his life. His virgin birth did not directly affect that though it is a sign of it.
I welcome such questions when they come to my mind and I look to God and his righteousness to resolve them. Even if he does not I still know he has his just and righteous.
Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 29 2010,22:10) Hi Adam. I had questions, I never understood the answers I was given. Untill I was given answers which were exactly what scripture meant, I could see it. Once you have your answers, and they are there, its ok. But they are there. Having the right person helps. I believe God sends sometimes the right person to help. Watch what anyone else says. Keep to what the one says, it's what I found. You will know who the person is.
Thanks Sis Karmarie,
You were having patience to withstand such inner struggle. But I am a weak fellow who is searching for answers everywhere. Hope things are ok soon.Love and peace to you
AdamQuote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 30 2010,03:03) Adam………The story of Jesus Virgin berth does seem to cause some wonder as to why did not the other Disciples ever mention it and Paul's did not even make one mention of the it nor Peter and John either, you would think they all would have written about it, right. You do have a good point in my opinion , i discussed years ago with the Jews about the scriptures in Isaiah, about the Emanuel thing and i believe they were right in this picture part of scripture , Emanuel was Isaiah's son given to the king as a Sign to the king of Judah regarding the invasion of the armies of Israel and others to attack Judah and destory it. So i am is somewhat of a reserve about the total accuracy of those scripture also. I am not really convinced either way brother. Peace and love to you and yours……………………………….gene
Hi brother Gene,
I like your honest and broad minded approach towards biblical contradictions. I don't find any true reason for the alleged Virgin Birth except those two Evangelists to make Jesus birth supernatural to show that he was different from us.Thanks and peace to you
AdamQuote (kerwin @ Oct. 30 2010,08:46) Adam, God does not reveal all his mysteries to me so perhaps I cannot answer all the questions you ask but I do know God is righteous and does everything to further his righteous plan. The virgin conception and birth like the star of Bethlehem is a sign of the Messiah and may be nothing more. God chose Mary because I believe she had no brothers and so inherited the line of David from her father. In addition she was alive during the right age. The name of her father would have ended with her if she remained unmarried and that was considered a tragedy to the Hebrew people so she would find choosing to not marry and bear children as a sin. She married Joseph to keep the inheritance in the same tribe.
I disagree with the tenet that Jesus was filled with the spirit at his baptism by John. I believe he was granted the power to do miracles at that time. He was enabled to live by the Spirit of God even in his mother’s womb and so was able to resist the devil’s temptation all his life. His virgin birth did not directly affect that though it is a sign of it.
I welcome such questions when they come to my mind and I look to God and his righteousness to resolve them. Even if he does not I still know he has his just and righteous.
Hi brother Kerwin,
God can not reveal things which He had not concurred. I have not seen even a single Christian here who could claim that he had been revealed some thing from God which was not revealed in the written scriptures. This never happens we only claim to expect from God. I can not accept your silly reasons for so called Virgin Birth.Thanks and peace to you
AdamQuote (Ed J @ Sep. 10 2010,18:58) Quote (gollamudi @ Sep. 10 2010,18:01) Hi brother Ed J,
As per your estimation of Jesus' birth as man he can claim only 25% from the tribe of Judah. If he is 50% of Holy Spirit he was not pure human like you and me who are 100%. (1)How can God be Father without becoming husband first if you claim Holy Spirit causing 50% for Jesus' sonship? (2)How can God be husband of some woman who was already betrothed to another? (3)Is there any proof for your logic of 25% Levite (4)and 25% Judah as per your estimation above? (5)What was the necessity of Virgin Birth of Jesus? (6)Could Jesus be counted sinless as per the so called Virgin Birth even by considering his birth without human male involvement? (7)Was Mary sinless? (8)How can her child be sinless?…(9)so on and so forth..These are questions run through my mind when I read the Virgin Birth narrations in Gospels of Matthew and Luke. So far I could not get proper answers for questions.
Adam
Hi Adam,I'm glad ‘you’ are using ‘your’ “Free Will” to discourse with me!
Isaiah 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD…
In the future ‘only’ one question Per-Post, allow more room for answers.1) Are you suggesting God got to “Mary” first?
2) Hosea 2:16
3) Luke 1:5 / Luke 1:36
4) Luke 3:23-31
5) 1Corinthians 15:22
6) Yea
7) Matt.7:1
8) Leviticus 18:5
9) Matt.7:7 / 2Tm.2:13What do you consider a proper answer? (Mt.5:37 / 2Tm.2:13 / Job 36:2)
2Cor.1:17-20 When I therefore was thus minded, did I use lightness?
or the things that I purpose, do I purpose according to the flesh, that
with me there should be yea yea, and nay nay? But as God is true, our
word toward you was not yea and nay. For the Son of God, Jesus Christ,
who was preached among you by us, even by me and Silvanus and Timotheus,
was not yea and nay, but in him was yea. For all the promises of God in him yea,
and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us. (Romans 8:17 / Romans 8:29-30)“YHVH is GOD”=117
PSALM 117 is [The Bible's Center Chapter],
the [smallest chapter] of the [LARGEST BOOK]!Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 48:16 / Isaiah 60:14)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)
Hi Adam,You never commented on someone finally answering your questions for you?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (gollamudi @ Nov. 02 2010,22:12) Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 29 2010,22:10) Hi Adam. I had questions, I never understood the answers I was given. Untill I was given answers which were exactly what scripture meant, I could see it. Once you have your answers, and they are there, its ok. But they are there. Having the right person helps. I believe God sends sometimes the right person to help. Watch what anyone else says. Keep to what the one says, it's what I found. You will know who the person is.
Thanks Sis Karmarie,
You were having patience to withstand such inner struggle. But I am a weak fellow who is searching for answers everywhere. Hope things are ok soon.Love and peace to you
Adam
Hi Brother Adam,I ask the poster who is called JustAskin when I had things i couldnt understand, so maybe He could help you with this , when Hes around next ? I dont have the anwer to this myself either. It's something iv wondered, (excuse me Adam i'm trying to quit smoking at the moment and I find even trying to type is hard) 21 years of smoking, probably 30 a day or more, is hard…
Shimmer ………Quiting smoking is one of the hardest thing anyone can do. I tried for a full year every-way i could and at the end of a year I gave up. I took it to GOD and told him i was through trying to quit i gave it an honest try, I simple could not quite that nasty habit and I resolved to just die smoking, I ask Him for His Help and i would give it a try one more time and if i failed that was it for me no more trying. I got up from that prayer and Had nearly a full pack of cigarette in my shirt pocket, I was waiting for the erg to hit me again , first a few hours went by then a few days and then a month and Not ONE Desire for a cigarette or any Withdrawal symptom it was as if i had never smoked in my life . GOD can remove every effect of Nicotine from you Sis. Some things are Just to strong for Us and I believe when we give up and let go in front of GOD, He moves in and proves what he can do in our lives.Shimmer i Hope God does that for you too, so you can get rid of that life robbing nasty Habit.
peace and love to you and yours…………………………….gene
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