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Quote (gollamudi @ April 15 2010,17:47) Quote (terraricca @ April 15 2010,16:54) GOLL
the scriptures are what they are the word of God the OT. and NT. if there is non acceptance of either one ,for some mens reason or influence,thats something we all have to come to grip with before God.justification of you discontent willbe done in the face of Christ if you would reach that far;
Jn 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life; but he that obeyeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him
Hi brother terrarica,
'Believing in Son for eternal life' was not the part of O.T. But was the later developments with regards to Christology. God never told such things in whole of O.T. There was only One God whom people had to believe and trust to receive life eternal or hevenly blessing. If Jesus was true human being he could have not uttered such words to believe in him to attain eternal life. It was purely the developed Christology of the writer of the Fourth Gospel. It seems he might have put words in Jesus mouth to prove his dogma. No Jew can beleive such wrong concepts on eternal life.Peace to you
Adam
gollyou right,the Christ was only forecast trough the prophets,
the Jews have receive 3.5 years premium time to accept him
then and only then the gentiles were allowed to come.so i only see that the Jews were not interested in Christ ,at the least the way he came and what he was preaching.
it does not change anything ,he still is the only son of God.
Quote (gollamudi @ April 20 2010,16:29) So brother Terraricca,
Has Jesus introduced another new religion to believe in him instead of God?
Gollno, he did not the time ad comes for God to show who was his king that he chose, and to bring forward what was written in the scriptures.many things are yet to be fulfilled soon.
Quote (gollamudi @ April 20 2010,16:29) So brother Terraricca,
Has Jesus introduced another new religion to believe in him instead of God?
Hi GM,
He is the door to God's kingdom and holds the keys.
Would you try to enter another way?Perhaps your own righteousness is enough but it is not for us.
Quote (gollamudi @ April 20 2010,18:51) Hope for the better.
Gollin time we all be of God ,unless we reject him by refusing is spirit of truth,
yes we suffer at first but it is everlasting live after that.
Adam…………it is Good to hear from you again brother, hope everything is going OK with you and yours brother. I am doing alright just getting older.
May God bless and Keep you , make his face shine upon you and be gracious unto you, lift up his countenance upon you and give you Peace, Brother.
peace and love to you and yours brother………………………………….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 23 2010,11:11) Adam…………it is Good to hear from you again brother, hope everything is going OK with you and yours brother. I am doing alright just getting older. May God bless and Keep you , make his face shine upon you and be gracious unto you, lift up his countenance upon you and give you Peace, Brother.
peace and love to you and yours brother………………………………….gene
Thank you very much my loving brother Gene. I am also missing you sometimes in this forum. Here every thing is fine by the grace of God.Peace and love
AdamThe Genealogy of Jesus
Why do Jews reject Jesus as their Messiah (Moshiach)? One reason is because of his geneology. Isaiah 11, Jeremiah 30, Jeremiah 23, Jeremiah 33 and Ezekeil 37 are some of the prophets ho tell that the Moshiach will be a descendent of King David. Christians have accepted that the genealogies of Luke 3 and Matthew 1 are correct – however, they have some glaring errors.
The first error is that the two are completely different. Christians explain that Matthew's genealogy for Jesus goes through Joseph and Luke's genealogy for Jesus goes through Mary. Next:
Matthew's genealogy for Jesus
Firstly, according to Christian theology, Mary was a virgin and G-d gave her Jesus. So, why does it even matter what Joseph's genealogy is? If you were adopted, whose genealogy would you go by – your real parents or your adopted parents? It's the former. Whether or not one is adopted, they get the genealogy of the real parents – the birth parents. Now, if you choose to believe the false premise that Mary was a virgin and Joseph wasn't the father (by the way, the virgin birth story was common in pagan religions – Christians adopted it to make it more palatable for pagans so that they could become Christians), then you would have to go by G-d's genealogy, but he doesn't have one, right? Furthermore, in Jeremiah 22:28-30, G-d swears that Jeconiah will never have anyone that will sit on the throne of David. OOOPS! Jeconiah is in Joseph's genealogy. That's a bit of a mistake, wouldn't you say? Notice Jeconiah's offspring too – Shealtiel and Zerubbabel.
Luke's genealogy for Jesus
Christians maintain that the genealogy shown in Luke is for that of Mary. Firstly, if it's Mary's genealogy, why doesn't it show her in it? It shows Joseph in it, but there is nothing about Mary. Secondly, as far as I know there is not one instance in the Tanach where a person's genealogy is given through their mother. Thirdly, 1 Chronicles 17: 11-14 talks about Solomon and that the “king” will be his descendent – “Mary's” genealogy doesn't go through Solomon, it goes through Nathan. Fourthly, Shealtiel and Zerubbabel are common in this genealogy, and we know that the Moshiach can't be their descendent.
I know this isn't stuff you want to hear, but it's the truth, based on Christian theology. Being a descendent of David is central to being Moshiach. So therefore, how can it be at all possible for Jesus to have been Moshiach?
Source: http://www.jew-jew.com/jews4judaism/genealogy_of_jesus.php
Adam! If it comes right down to it, is it not more important that we know that Jesus is from God the Father then from anyone else. I don't buy into the Jewish explanation, because they are the ones that wanted Jesus dead…. they also did not lift a finger when it came to the Apostles dead and all the first Christians in Jesus time. So who are they to say that Jesus is not the Messiah. They the Apostles were Eye Witnesses to seeing Jesus resurrection and His ascension into Heaven. These Letters from the Apostles could have and probable do have some errors in them. Just to go by what they are saying IMO is not wise….. as far as I am concerned, I do not buy it.
Peace and Love IreneAdam,
I question the honesty of the claims by these so called Jews is also claim Jewishness descends through the mother's side of the family.
Here are some questions I like you to answer.
1) Does Jewishness descend through the mother's side?
2) If the mother is a Jew and the father is a Gentile then what tribe does the child belong to?
3) If a child is adopted from one family to another family inside of a tribe then who is the child's father?
4) If the father of a child is unknown then how is his/her ancestry indicated?
Have you answered these questions and others when testing the spirit of what these so called Jews have stated. If so could you please share the answers you obtained. Thank you.
If you have not asked these questions then why not?
Quote (kerwin @ June 01 2010,19:21) Adam, I question the honesty of the claims by these so called Jews is also claim Jewishness descends through the mother's side of the family.
Here are some questions I like you to answer.
1) Does Jewishness descend through the mother's side?
2) If the mother is a Jew and the father is a Gentile then what tribe does the child belong to?
3) If a child is adopted from one family to another family inside of a tribe then who is the child's father?
4) If the father of a child is unknown then how is his/her ancestry indicated?
Have you answered these questions and others when testing the spirit of what these so called Jews have stated. If so could you please share the answers you obtained. Thank you.
If you have not asked these questions then why not?
Hi brother Kerwin,
Here is how I see your questions;1. The answer is yes or no since O.T jewish genealogies consists of gentile women like Tamar, Rachab, Ruth, Bathsheba etc. it can be no as per my understanding.
2. This is related first one as I understand the tribe can only pass through father and not through mother as in the case of O.T genealogies like I quoted in 1.
3. Even if a child is adopted he can be of his original parents instead of adopted.
4. He will be called a bastard
I hope I have answered your questions.
Adam,
I agree with your answer to number one but the many traditional so called Jews do not. The teach that decent is only through the mother. They are sometimes so extreme that they will deny that a child born of a Gentile mother and a Jewish father is Jewish. As you pointed out that teaching is not consistent with scripture.
I need to do more research on the rest.
Quote (gollamudi @ June 01 2010,21:24) Thanks for such understanding.
Adam! Who is the Father of Jesus? Is He not our Heavenly Father? To say then that you have to go by the decent through the Fathers side, is irrelevant. If you deny that Jesus came in the flesh, died for us and was burried and rose again on the third day, Scriptures say that you are in the Spirit of Anti-Christ…. 1 John denying Jesus you don't have the Father either. That is what Scriptures say…..Are you denying Jesus??? I also belief that because Joseph wanted to give Jesus a Father, He married Maria. You do agree there, right? So the fact is that if we have to know what genealogy of Jesus is, we have to go by Maria. To me it makes no difference. I know who Jesus is. I know that He is the Son of God. Now if you want to believe what the Jewish people are telling you, you better make 100% sure, because of the Scripture I gave you in 1 John.
Peace and Love IreneAdam,
I found a Messianic Jewish site that points out what scripture and the Talmud state about the practice of adoption in the Hebrew culture.
Talmud reads:
Quote R. Simon b. Pazzi once introduced an exposition of the Book of Chronicles as follows: 'All thy words are one, and we know how to find their inner meaning'. [It is written], And his wife the Jewess bore Jered the father of Gedor, and Heber the father of Socho, and Jekuthiel the father of Zanoah, and these are the sons of Bithya the daughter of Pharaoh, whom Mered took. Why was she [the daughter of Pharaoh] called a Jewess? Because she repudiated idolatry, as it is written, And the daughter of Pharaoh went down to bathe in the river, and R. Johanan, [commenting on this,] said that she went down to cleanse herself from the idols of her father's house. 'Bore': But she only brought him [Moses] up? – This tells us that if anyone brings up an orphan boy or girl in his house, the Scripture accounts it as if he had begotten him. 'Jered': this is Moses. Why was he called Jered? Because manna came down [yarad] for Israel in his days. (Talmud Mas. Megilah 13a)
And his wife Ha-Jehudiah bore Yered the father of Gedor [and Heber the father of Soco, and Jekuthiel the father of Zanoah] and these are the sons of Bithia the daughter of Pharaoh, whom Mered took. Now, 'Mered' was Caleb; and why was he called Mered? . – Because he opposed the counsel of the other spies. But was he [Moses] indeed born of Bithia and not rather of Jochebed? – But Jochebed bore and Bithia reared him; therefore he was called after her. (Talmud Mas. Sanhedrin 19b)
The scripture the Talmud is interpreting is 1 Chr. 4:17-18.
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