Urantia Trinity

Participant

Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 02 2013,08:51)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 02 2013,05:47)

The fact here is that no one knows Jesus' new name………. but every single one of us knows his TITLE “The Word of God”.

This is not his “new name”, Wakeup. It is the TITLE Jesus has had since the time he was created as the firstborn son of God – before the ages.

Mike B.

That is exactly what I've said.No one knows his real name,but we will *call him* THE WORD OF GOD.
At the coming.

Not by the name Jesus *anymore*.Why is it so?
It is because that name has been blasphemed,and made the subject of dirty jokes during the centuries.

After his birth,he was named Jesus. And at his coming
we will call him the *word of God*.His real name no one knows,but he *himself*.
This only means that he will *not retain* the name *Jesus*.

wakeup.

Students of the Urantia revelation know his real name it's Michael. In fact John knew this when it was revealed to him on Patmos.

Colter

September 2, 2013 at 12:56 am#356663

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 02 2013,02:25)

Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 01 2013,08:30)

Isaiah 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is *NO SAVIOUR*.

THE MAN JESUS WAS NOT;THE NAME JESUS WAS NOT.

Isaiah 44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, **I am the LORD** that maketh **ALL THINGS**; that stretcheth forth the heavens *ALONE*; that spreadeth abroad the earth **BY MY SELF**;

wakeup.

…and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came….

It would be hard for all things to come through Jesus Christ if Jesus Christ didn't exist before those “all things” that came through him.

As for Isaiah 43:11………
Nehemiah 9:27
But when they were oppressed they cried out to you. From heaven you heard them, and in your great compassion you gave them saviors, who rescued them from the hand of their enemies.

This verse speaks of the judges of old, Wakeup. And God had sent these saviors long before He emphatically said, “besides me there is no savior”.

As for Isaiah 44:24, I have no disagreement with it. I truly believe that Jehovah did indeed make all things by Himself.

He who creates is one, and he through whom the thing is created is another. – Tertullian

The fact that God created all things through Jesus doesn't contradict the claim that God created all things by Himself.

Just like the fact that God created you through your parents doesn't contradict the fact that God, alone and by Himself, is the one who created you.

The problem with that theory is then you are calling Jesus “GOD”

Rethink it again but also if you understand nehemiah 9:27then you should agree totally with what Wakeup wrote unless you are willing to give those other “saviours” who were also men the same attributes you give Jesus.

When you say you “believe that Jehovah did indeed make all things by Himself” you should leave it alone. IT IS THE GLORY of JEHOVAH not to be shared.

Isaiah 42:8
I am the Lord: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

September 2, 2013 at 1:01 am#356664

Participant

Quote (Colter @ Sep. 02 2013,10:16)

Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 02 2013,08:51)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 02 2013,05:47)

The fact here is that no one knows Jesus' new name………. but every single one of us knows his TITLE “The Word of God”.

This is not his “new name”, Wakeup. It is the TITLE Jesus has had since the time he was created as the firstborn son of God – before the ages.

Mike B.

That is exactly what I've said.No one knows his real name,but we will *call him* THE WORD OF GOD.
At the coming.

Not by the name Jesus *anymore*.Why is it so?
It is because that name has been blasphemed,and made the subject of dirty jokes during the centuries.

After his birth,he was named Jesus. And at his coming
we will call him the *word of God*.His real name no one knows,but he *himself*.
This only means that he will *not retain* the name *Jesus*.

wakeup.

Students of the Urantia revelation know his real name it's Michael. In fact John knew this when it was revealed to him on Patmos.

Colter

Jude 1:9
Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

Was this really Jesus contending with the devil? Why ishe being referred to as an Archangel and more amazingly why if Michael is actually the creator of this local universe having a dispute with the devil?

also:

Daniel 10:12-14

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

12 Then said he unto me, Fear not, Daniel: for from the first day that thou didst set thine heart to understand, and to chasten thyself before thy God, thy words were heard, and I am come for thy words. 13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia. 14 Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall thy people in the latter days: for yet the vision is for many days.

Why is Michael here referred to “ONE OF THE CHIEF PRINCES”?
Isn't Michael GOD in your belief?

September 2, 2013 at 1:35 am#356665

Participant

Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 02 2013,12:01)

Quote (Colter @ Sep. 02 2013,10:16)

Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 02 2013,08:51)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 02 2013,05:47)

The fact here is that no one knows Jesus' new name………. but every single one of us knows his TITLE “The Word of God”.

This is not his “new name”, Wakeup. It is the TITLE Jesus has had since the time he was created as the firstborn son of God – before the ages.

Mike B.

That is exactly what I've said.No one knows his real name,but we will *call him* THE WORD OF GOD.
At the coming.

Not by the name Jesus *anymore*.Why is it so?
It is because that name has been blasphemed,and made the subject of dirty jokes during the centuries.

After his birth,he was named Jesus. And at his coming
we will call him the *word of God*.His real name no one knows,but he *himself*.
This only means that he will *not retain* the name *Jesus*.

wakeup.

Students of the Urantia revelation know his real name it's Michael. In fact John knew this when it was revealed to him on Patmos.

Colter

Jude 1:9
Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

also:

Daniel 10:12-14

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

Why is Michael here referred to “ONE OF THE CHIEF PRINCES”?
Isn't Michael GOD in your belief?

That fragment came from a dispute about the resurrection of Moses into the next world. The rebel “prince of this world” opposed an Archangel of Michael about a special dispensational resurrection. This became confused with Michael himself.

(596.3) 52:5.5 On Urantia the establishment of this “new and living way” was a matter of fact as well as of truth. The isolation of Urantia in the Lucifer rebellion had suspended the procedure whereby mortals can pass, upon death, directly to the shores of the mansion worlds. Before the days of Christ Michael on Urantia all souls slept on until the dispensational or special millennial resurrections. Even Moses was not permitted to go over to the other side until the occasion of a special resurrection, the fallen Planetary Prince, Caligastia, contesting such a deliverance. But ever since the day of Pentecost, Urantia mortals again may proceed directly to the morontia spheres.

Colter

September 2, 2013 at 1:46 am#356667

Participant

Quote (Colter @ Sep. 02 2013,12:35)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 02 2013,12:01)

Quote (Colter @ Sep. 02 2013,10:16)

Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 02 2013,08:51)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 02 2013,05:47)

The fact here is that no one knows Jesus' new name………. but every single one of us knows his TITLE “The Word of God”.

This is not his “new name”, Wakeup. It is the TITLE Jesus has had since the time he was created as the firstborn son of God – before the ages.

Mike B.

That is exactly what I've said.No one knows his real name,but we will *call him* THE WORD OF GOD.
At the coming.

Not by the name Jesus *anymore*.Why is it so?
It is because that name has been blasphemed,and made the subject of dirty jokes during the centuries.

After his birth,he was named Jesus. And at his coming
we will call him the *word of God*.His real name no one knows,but he *himself*.
This only means that he will *not retain* the name *Jesus*.

wakeup.

Students of the Urantia revelation know his real name it's Michael. In fact John knew this when it was revealed to him on Patmos.

Colter

Jude 1:9
Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

also:

Daniel 10:12-14

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

Why is Michael here referred to “ONE OF THE CHIEF PRINCES”?
Isn't Michael GOD in your belief?

Colter

You didn't answer the other part. But also in the Quran

Whoever is an enemy to Allah, His Angels, His Messengers, Jibril (Gabriel) and Mika'il (Michael), then verily, Allah is an enemy to the disbelievers.”

( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #98)

September 2, 2013 at 1:54 am#356668

Participant

Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 02 2013,12:46)

Quote (Colter @ Sep. 02 2013,12:35)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 02 2013,12:01)

Quote (Colter @ Sep. 02 2013,10:16)

Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 02 2013,08:51)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 02 2013,05:47)

The fact here is that no one knows Jesus' new name………. but every single one of us knows his TITLE “The Word of God”.

This is not his “new name”, Wakeup. It is the TITLE Jesus has had since the time he was created as the firstborn son of God – before the ages.

Mike B.

That is exactly what I've said.No one knows his real name,but we will *call him* THE WORD OF GOD.
At the coming.

Not by the name Jesus *anymore*.Why is it so?
It is because that name has been blasphemed,and made the subject of dirty jokes during the centuries.

After his birth,he was named Jesus. And at his coming
we will call him the *word of God*.His real name no one knows,but he *himself*.
This only means that he will *not retain* the name *Jesus*.

wakeup.

Students of the Urantia revelation know his real name it's Michael. In fact John knew this when it was revealed to him on Patmos.

Colter

Jude 1:9
Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

also:

Daniel 10:12-14

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

Why is Michael here referred to “ONE OF THE CHIEF PRINCES”?
Isn't Michael GOD in your belief?

Colter

You didn't answer the other part. But also in the Quran

Whoever is an enemy to Allah, His Angels, His Messengers, Jibril (Gabriel) and Mika'il (Michael), then verily, Allah is an enemy to the disbelievers.”

( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #98)

The time lag of justice allowed the rebels ample time to repent of their evil ways. They refused and were ultimately defeated. Jesus met with them on Mt Hermon just prior to begining his public ministry where they were finally defeated, locked up and put on trial.

Colter

September 2, 2013 at 1:56 am#356669

Participant

Quote (Colter @ Sep. 02 2013,12:54)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 02 2013,12:46)

Quote (Colter @ Sep. 02 2013,12:35)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 02 2013,12:01)

Quote (Colter @ Sep. 02 2013,10:16)

Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 02 2013,08:51)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 02 2013,05:47)

The fact here is that no one knows Jesus' new name………. but every single one of us knows his TITLE “The Word of God”.

This is not his “new name”, Wakeup. It is the TITLE Jesus has had since the time he was created as the firstborn son of God – before the ages.

Mike B.

That is exactly what I've said.No one knows his real name,but we will *call him* THE WORD OF GOD.
At the coming.

Not by the name Jesus *anymore*.Why is it so?
It is because that name has been blasphemed,and made the subject of dirty jokes during the centuries.

After his birth,he was named Jesus. And at his coming
we will call him the *word of God*.His real name no one knows,but he *himself*.
This only means that he will *not retain* the name *Jesus*.

wakeup.

Students of the Urantia revelation know his real name it's Michael. In fact John knew this when it was revealed to him on Patmos.

Colter

Jude 1:9
Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

also:

Daniel 10:12-14

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

Why is Michael here referred to “ONE OF THE CHIEF PRINCES”?
Isn't Michael GOD in your belief?

Colter

You didn't answer the other part. But also in the Quran

Whoever is an enemy to Allah, His Angels, His Messengers, Jibril (Gabriel) and Mika'il (Michael), then verily, Allah is an enemy to the disbelievers.”

( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #98)

Colter

Why is Michael here referred to “ONE OF THE CHIEF PRINCES”?
Isn't Michael GOD in your belief?

September 2, 2013 at 1:59 am#356670

Participant

Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 02 2013,12:56)

Quote (Colter @ Sep. 02 2013,12:54)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 02 2013,12:46)

Quote (Colter @ Sep. 02 2013,12:35)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 02 2013,12:01)

Quote (Colter @ Sep. 02 2013,10:16)

Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 02 2013,08:51)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 02 2013,05:47)

The fact here is that no one knows Jesus' new name………. but every single one of us knows his TITLE “The Word of God”.

This is not his “new name”, Wakeup. It is the TITLE Jesus has had since the time he was created as the firstborn son of God – before the ages.

Mike B.

That is exactly what I've said.No one knows his real name,but we will *call him* THE WORD OF GOD.
At the coming.

Not by the name Jesus *anymore*.Why is it so?
It is because that name has been blasphemed,and made the subject of dirty jokes during the centuries.

After his birth,he was named Jesus. And at his coming
we will call him the *word of God*.His real name no one knows,but he *himself*.
This only means that he will *not retain* the name *Jesus*.

wakeup.

Students of the Urantia revelation know his real name it's Michael. In fact John knew this when it was revealed to him on Patmos.

Colter

Jude 1:9
Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

also:

Daniel 10:12-14

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

Why is Michael here referred to “ONE OF THE CHIEF PRINCES”?
Isn't Michael GOD in your belief?

Colter

You didn't answer the other part. But also in the Quran

Whoever is an enemy to Allah, His Angels, His Messengers, Jibril (Gabriel) and Mika'il (Michael), then verily, Allah is an enemy to the disbelievers.”

( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #98)

Colter

Why is Michael here referred to “ONE OF THE CHIEF PRINCES”?
Isn't Michael GOD in your belief?

Not sure, the prophets would say all sorts of strange things that didn't really fit.

Colter

September 2, 2013 at 2:02 am#356671

Participant

8. The Sojourn on Mount Hermon

(1492.8) 134:8.1 After spending some time in the vicinity of Caesarea-Philippi, Jesus made ready his supplies, and securing a beast of burden and a lad named Tiglath, he proceeded along the Damascus road to a village sometime known as Beit Jenn in the foothills of Mount Hermon. Here, near the middle of August, A.D. 25, he established his headquarters, and leaving his supplies in the custody of Tiglath, he ascended the lonely slopes of the mountain. Tiglath accompanied Jesus this first day up the mountain to a designated point about 6,000 feet above sea level, where they built a stone container in which Tiglath was to deposit food twice a week.*

(1493.1) 134:8.2 The first day, after he had left Tiglath, Jesus had ascended the mountain only a short way when he paused to pray. Among other things he asked his Father to send back the guardian seraphim to “be with Tiglath.” He requested that he be permitted to go up to his last struggle with the realities of mortal existence alone. And his request was granted. He went into the great test with only his indwelling Adjuster to guide and sustain him.

(1493.2) 134:8.3 Jesus ate frugally while on the mountain; he abstained from all food only a day or two at a time. The superhuman beings who confronted him on this mountain, and with whom he wrestled in spirit, and whom he defeated in power, were real; they were his archenemies in the system of Satania; they were not phantasms of the imagination evolved out of the intellectual vagaries of a weakened and starving mortal who could not distinguish reality from the visions of a disordered mind.

(1493.3) 134:8.4 Jesus spent the last three weeks of August and the first three weeks of September on Mount Hermon. During these weeks he finished the mortal task of achieving the circles of mind-understanding and personality-control. Throughout this period of communion with his heavenly Father the indwelling Adjuster also completed the assigned services. The mortal goal of this earth creature was there attained. Only the final phase of mind and Adjuster attunement remained to be consummated.

(1493.4) 134:8.5 After more than five weeks of unbroken communion with his Paradise Father, Jesus became absolutely assured of his nature and of the certainty of his triumph over the material levels of time-space personality manifestation. He fully believed in, and did not hesitate to assert, the ascendancy of his divine nature over his human nature.

(1493.5) 134:8.6 Near the end of the mountain sojourn Jesus asked his Father if he might be permitted to hold conference with his Satania enemies as the Son of Man, as Joshua ben Joseph. This request was granted. During the last week on Mount Hermon the great temptation, the universe trial, occurred. Satan (representing Lucifer) and the rebellious Planetary Prince, Caligastia, were present with Jesus and were made fully visible to him. And this “temptation,” this final trial of human loyalty in the face of the misrepresentations of rebel personalities, had not to do with food, temple pinnacles, or presumptuous acts. It had not to do with the kingdoms of this world but with the sovereignty of a mighty and glorious universe. The symbolism of your records was intended for the backward ages of the world’s childlike thought. And subsequent generations should understand what a great struggle the Son of Man passed through that eventful day on Mount Hermon.

(1493.6) 134:8.7 To the many proposals and counterproposals of the emissaries of Lucifer, Jesus only made reply: “May the will of my Paradise Father prevail, and you, my rebellious son, may the Ancients of Days judge you divinely. I am your Creator-father; I can hardly judge you justly, and my mercy you have already spurned. I commit you to the adjudication of the Judges of a greater universe.”

(1494.1) 134:8.8 To all the Lucifer-suggested compromises and makeshifts, to all such specious proposals about the incarnation bestowal, Jesus only made reply, “The will of my Father in Paradise be done.” And when the trying ordeal was finished, the detached guardian seraphim returned to Jesus’ side and ministered to him.

(1494.2) 134:8.9 On an afternoon in late summer, amid the trees and in the silence of nature, Michael of Nebadon won the unquestioned sovereignty of his universe. On that day he completed the task set for Creator Sons to live to the full the incarnated life in the likeness of mortal flesh on the evolutionary worlds of time and space. The universe announcement of this momentous achievement was not made until the day of his baptism, months afterward, but it all really took place that day on the mountain. And when Jesus came down from his sojourn on Mount Hermon, the Lucifer rebellion in Satania and the Caligastia secession on Urantia were virtually settled. Jesus had paid the last price required of him to attain the sovereignty of his universe, which in itself regulates the status of all rebels and determines that all such future upheavals (if they ever occur) may be dealt with summarily and effectively. Accordingly, it may be seen that the so-called “great temptation” of Jesus took place sometime before his baptism and not just after that event.*

(1494.3) 134:8.10 At the end of this sojourn on the mountain, as Jesus was making his descent, he met Tiglath coming up to the rendezvous with food. Turning him back, he said only: “The period of rest is over; I must return to my Father’s business.” He was a silent and much changed man as they journeyed back to Dan, where he took leave of the lad, giving him the donkey. He then proceeded south by the same way he had come, to Capernaum.

Colter

September 2, 2013 at 3:13 am#356674

Wakeup

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 02 2013,05:47)

The fact here is that no one knows Jesus' new name………. but every single one of us knows his TITLE “The Word of God”.

This is not his “new name”, Wakeup. It is the TITLE Jesus has had since the time he was created as the firstborn son of God – before the ages.

Mike B.

Your word is not your title,but your literal word.
Jesus *new name* we dont know,only he knows.
We only know him as the Word of God,which is not his name.We always have known him as the Word of God.
In the beginning was the Word—-

But eventually He will reveal his name,
when he rules in his kingdom,and we are truly enlightened.

JESUS INTRODUCED HIMSELF TO JOHN in rev.NOT AS JESUS,BUT AS:

Revelation 1:11 Saying, *I AM ALPHA AND OMEGA*,*THE FIRST AND THE LAST*: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

VERSE 18. I AM HE THAT LIVED AND WAS DEAD—–
The name Jesus was not mentioned here,but then later in verse 18, he mentioned his name as Jesus.This is how no man really knows his name.

wakeup.

September 2, 2013 at 11:34 am#356687

Participant

Btw, a “title” is not a name, in fact Jesus chose “Son of Man” as his title on earth. Be used that term as it was used in the Book of Enoch.

Colter

September 2, 2013 at 12:03 pm#356689

Participant

2. The Creators of Local Universes

(235.4) 21:2.1 The Paradise Sons of the primary order are the designers, creators, builders, and administrators of their respective domains, the local universes of time and space, the basic creative units of the seven evolutionary superuniverses. A Creator Son is permitted to choose the space site of his future cosmic activity, but before he may begin even the physical organization of his universe, he must spend a long period of observation devoted to the study of the efforts of his older brothers in various creations located in the superuniverse of his projected action. And prior to all this, the Michael Son will have completed his long and unique experience of Paradise observation and Havona training.

(235.5) 21:2.2 When a Creator Son departs from Paradise to embark upon the adventure of universe making, to become the head — virtually the God — of the local universe of his own organization, then, for the first time, he finds himself in intimate contact with, and in many respects dependent upon, the Third Source and Center. The Infinite Spirit, though abiding with the Father and the Son at the center of all things, is destined to function as the actual and effective helper of each Creator Son. Therefore is each Creator Son accompanied by a Creative Daughter of the Infinite Spirit, that being who is destined to become the Divine Minister, the Mother Spirit of the new local universe.

(236.1) 21:2.3 The departure of a Michael Son on this occasion forever liberates his creator prerogatives from the Paradise Sources and Centers, subject only to certain limitations inherent in the pre-existence of these Sources and Centers and to certain other antecedent powers and presences. Among these limitations to the otherwise all-powerful creator prerogatives of a local universe Father are the following:

(236.2) 21:2.4 1. Energy-matter is dominated by the Infinite Spirit. Before any new forms of things, great or small, may be created, before any new transformations of energy-matter may be attempted, a Creator Son must secure the consent and working co-operation of the Infinite Spirit.

(236.3) 21:2.5 2. Creature designs and types are controlled by the Eternal Son. Before a Creator Son may engage in the creation of any new type of being, any new design of creature, he must secure the consent of the Eternal and Original Mother Son.

(236.4) 21:2.6 3. Personality is designed and bestowed by the Universal Father.

(236.5) 21:2.7 The types and patterns of mind are determined by the precreature factors of being. After these have been associated to constitute a creature (personal or otherwise), mind is the endowment of the Third Source and Center, the universal source of mind ministry to all beings below the level of Paradise Creators.

(236.6) 21:2.8 The control of spirit designs and types depends on the level of their manifestation. In the last analysis, spiritual design is controlled by the Trinity or by the pre-Trinity spirit endowments of the Trinity personalities — Father, Son, and Spirit.

(236.7) 21:2.9 When such a perfect and divine Son has taken possession of the space site of his chosen universe; when the initial problems of universe materialization and of gross equilibrium have been resolved; when he has formed an effective and co-operative working union with the complemental Daughter of the Infinite Spirit — then do this Universe Son and this Universe Spirit initiate that liaison which is designed to give origin to the innumerable hosts of their local universe children. In connection with this event the Creative Spirit focalization of the Paradise Infinite Spirit becomes changed in nature, taking on the personal qualities of the Mother Spirit of a local universe.

(236.8) 21:2.10 Notwithstanding that all Creator Sons are divinely like their Paradise parents, none exactly resembles another; each is unique, diverse, exclusive, and original in nature as well as in personality. And since they are the architects and makers of the life plans of their respective realms, this very diversity insures that their domains will also be diverse in every form and phase of Michael-derived living existence which may be created or subsequently evolved therein. Hence the orders of creatures native to the local universes are quite varied. No two are administered or inhabited by dual-origin native beings who are in all respects identical. Within any superuniverse, one half of their inherent attributes are quite alike, being derived from the uniform Creative Spirits; the other half vary, being derived from the diversified Creator Sons. But such diversity does not characterize those creatures of sole origin in the Creative Spirit nor those imported beings who are native to the central or superuniverses.

(237.1) 21:2.11 When a Michael Son is absent from his universe, its government is directed by the first-born native being, the Bright and Morning Star, the local universe chief executive. The advice and counsel of the Union of Days is invaluable at such times. During these absences a Creator Son is able to invest the associated Mother Spirit with the overcontrol of his spiritual presence on the inhabited worlds and in the hearts of his mortal children. And the Mother Spirit of a local universe remains always at its headquarters, extending her fostering care and spiritual ministry to the uttermost parts of such an evolutionary domain.

(237.2) 21:2.12 The personal presence of a Creator Son in his local universe is not necessary to the smooth running of an established material creation. Such Sons may journey to Paradise, and still their universes swing on through space. They may lay down their lines of power to incarnate as the children of time; still their realms whirl on about their respective centers. No material organization is independent of the absolute-gravity grasp of Paradise or of the cosmic overcontrol inherent in the space presence of the Unqualified Absolute.

Colter

September 2, 2013 at 3:39 pm#356693

Blocked

Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 01 2013,18:56)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 02 2013,02:25)

He who creates is one, and he through whom the thing is created is another. – Tertullian

The problem with that theory is then you are calling Jesus “GOD”

Read the quote again, Asana. “God” is the one who created. The one THROUGH WHOM the thing was created is “ANOTHER”………… ie: NOT “God”.

“God”, alone and by Himself, created you. The fact that He did this THROUGH your parents does not make your parents “God” – or even equate them with “God”.

Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 01 2013,18:56)

….unless you are willing to give those other “saviours” who were also men the same attributes you give Jesus

I'm not. Nor am I willing to give Jesus the same attributes as our ULTIMATE Savior, Jehovah.

I merely pointed out the use of “exaggerated statements” in the Bible. An exaggerated statement most often is NOT used to deceive, but to place EMPHASIS. Jehovah saying there is no savior besides Him is an exaggerated statement, designed to place EMPHASIS on the fact that He is the ULTIMATE savior……… but not LITERALLY the ONLY savior.

The fact that these kinds of statements are often used for emphasis is the reason I usually call them “emphatic statements”.

September 2, 2013 at 3:42 pm#356694

Blocked

Quote (Colter @ Sep. 01 2013,19:59)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 02 2013,12:56)

Why is Michael here referred to “ONE OF THE CHIEF PRINCES”?
Isn't Michael GOD in your belief?

Not sure, the prophets would say all sorts of strange things that didn't really fit.

So once again, the Bible is wrong so your UB can be right?

September 2, 2013 at 3:54 pm#356695

Wakeup

Participant

Mike B.

QUOTE:
…and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came….UNQUOTE:
—————————————————————–
THIS IS TRUE, ALL CAME THROUGH JESUS,BECAUSE WE ONLY KNOW HIM BY THAT NAME.
—————————————————————–

QUOTE:
It would be hard for all things to come through Jesus Christ if Jesus Christ didn't exist before those “all things” that came through him.UNQUOTE:

—————————————————————–
THE WORD OF GOD CREATED ALL THINGS,AND WE ONLY KNOW HIM BY THE NAME *JESUS IN THE FLESH*.
HE DID NOT CREATE ANYTHING WHILE HE WAS IN THE FLESH. WHEN HE CREATED ALL THINGS,THE *NAME*
JESUS WAS NOT. BUT THE WORD WAS THERE.
—————————————————————-

QUOTE:
As for Isaiah 43:11………
Nehemiah 9:27
But when they were oppressed they cried out to you. From heaven you heard them, and in your great compassion you gave them saviors, who rescued them from the hand of their enemies.UNQUOTE:

—————————————————————–
REGARDING SAVIOURS:
ANYBODY CAN BE ANYBODIES SAVIOUR.
SAMPLE:
IF YOU ARE STUCK WITH NO GAS IN A DARK ROAD
FAR FROM THE CITY; AND SUDDENLY SOME MOTORIST
PASSED BY; SAW YOU; THEN REVERSED BACK TO HELP YOU WITH SOME GAS. HE IS YOUR SAVIOUR THAT NIGHT.
BUT NOT *THE* SAVIOUR JESUS.
SEE JOSHUA 5:13–15. HERE MICHAEL THE CAPTAIN OF HOST, WAS THE SAVIOUR OF JOSHUA,*IN THAT WAR*.
—————————————————————–

QUOTE:
This verse speaks of the judges of old, Wakeup. And God had sent these saviors long before He emphatically said, “besides me there is no savior”.UNQUOTE:

—————————————————————–
I UNDERSTAND;BUT EVEN TODAY WE HAVE SAVIOURS.
THAT RESCUES ONE FROM SOMEKIND OF TROUBLE.
LIKE THE LIFE SAVERS.
—————————————————————–

QUOTE:
As for Isaiah 44:24, I have no disagreement with it. I truly believe that Jehovah did indeed make all things by Himself.
He who creates is one, and he through whom the thing is created is another. – Tertullian. UNQUOTE:

—————————————————————–
THE FATHERS WORD IS IN THE FATHER.
WE ALSO WILL BE IN THE FATHER.
THE SPIRIT OF THE FATHER IS THE *BOND* THAT BINDS US ALL TOGETHER INCLUDING THE ANGELS,AND THE UNIVERSE.
GOD ALL IN ALL. IT IS SO MIND BOGGLING.
—————————————————————–

QUOTE:
The fact that God created all things through Jesus doesn't contradict the claim that God created all things by Himself.
Just like the fact that God created you through your parents doesn't contradict the fact that God, alone and by Himself, is the one who created you.UNQUOTE:

—————————————————————–
TRUE. I MAKE GUITARS BY MY RIGHT HAND,THE BRAIN IS ME.MY HANDS FOLLOW WHAT I TELL THEM TO DO.
—————————————————————–
QUOTE:
The problem with that theory is then you are calling Jesus “GOD”:UNQUOTE:

—————————————————————–WE WORSHIP JESUS;SO HE IS GOD,HE WAS PUT IN THAT POSITION BY HIS GOD,AND ALSO OUR GOD.
NO; WE DONT WORSHIP TWO GODS AS YOU MAY BE THINKING. BECAUSE THE ORDER COMES FROM THE ONE GOD THE FATHER,SO WE FOLLOW THE ONE GOD.
GOD MADE MOSES *A GOD* TO PHARAOH,BECAUSE GOD GAVE HIM AUTHORITY,AND POWER TO BE A GOD *TO PHARAOH*ONLY, AND NO ONE ELSE.

wakeup.

September 2, 2013 at 4:08 pm#356696

Blocked

Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 01 2013,21:13)

Mike B.

Your word is not your title, but your literal word.

Wakeup my friend,

I believe that Jesus was literally the firstborn of every creature and the beginning of the creation by God. (Col 1:15, Rev 3:14)

I believe he existed with much glory alongside his and our God before the universe was created through him. (John 17:5, Hebrews 1:2)

I believe that 99% of the time, the phrase “the word of God” refers simply to words that God has spoken (or even “thought” – since the Hebrews often wrote “He said” to convey something that someone simply thought to himself).

I believe that on rare occasions (John 1:1, 1:14, 1 John 1:1-2, Rev 19:13, and possibly some others like Heb 11:3), the phrase “the Word of God” refers to the title of God's main spokesman, Jesus Christ.

I don't believe John 1:1 and 1:14 refer to a LITERAL word from God's mouth that both was God and was with God in the beginning. And I don't believe a LITERAL word from God's mouth is what became flesh and dwelled on earth with the glory of God's only begotten Son.

I believe these verses refer to the fleshly manifestation of a powerful spirit being who had already been existing in the form of God from ancient times, before being made in the likeness of a human being. (Micah 5:2, Psalm 2:7, Proverbs 30:4, Phil 2:6-8)

And I have no scriptural reason to believe that this powerful spirit being did NOT have the name “Jesus”, and the title “the Word of God”, since the time he was created as the first of God's works. (Proverbs 8:22-31, 1 Cor 1:24)

peace,
mike

September 2, 2013 at 5:12 pm#356699

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 03 2013,02:42)

Quote (Colter @ Sep. 01 2013,19:59)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 02 2013,12:56)

Why is Michael here referred to “ONE OF THE CHIEF PRINCES”?
Isn't Michael GOD in your belief?

Not sure, the prophets would say all sorts of strange things that didn't really fit.

So once again, the Bible is wrong so your UB can be right?

The bible makes no claim of authoritative authorship as a complete work, it's more of a collection of bits and pieces of historical events (some woefully exagerated) transcribed through the understanding of men, in different ages, written to different audiences, redacted further by later generations, and reinterpreted and exploited by still others.

Nowhere do the authors of scripture claim inerrancy or dictation. If anything the authors imply that they are writing about the Word go God, interpreting the doings of God, they do not claim that their own narratives ARE the Word of God. That false teaching is a creation of the priestly elite, they have been cruel and evil in carrying out punishment to those who dare to challenge their BS!

The Bile is like a flee market, some fakes, some ok stuff and some real gems!

Our Lord Jesus Christ has now sen a massive body of work answering soooo many question and frankly kicking the atheist butt!

Colter

September 2, 2013 at 5:24 pm#356701

Blocked

Quote (Colter @ Sep. 01 2013,19:35)

But ever since the day of Pentecost, Urantia mortals again may proceed directly to the morontia spheres.

Colter,

According to the UB, what exactly is required of me to pass from death on earth to the morontia spheres?

For example, must I believe in your UB in order to make that passing?

September 2, 2013 at 6:30 pm#356707