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Quote (Colter @ Aug. 25 2013,17:50) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 26 2013,10:26)
In YOUR OWN words, tell me which three persons make up the Urantia Trinity.
Not corporeal persons, spirit personalitiesFather
Son
Spirit
And what about the difference between “eternal son” and “paradise creator son”?Which “son” have you listed? And which “son” do you claim Jesus is?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 26 2013,10:50) Quote (Colter @ Aug. 25 2013,17:44) But while Jesus is not the Father absolute in infinity, he is a divine being far far higher than man, with immense power and attributes.
Agreed.Quote (Colter @ Aug. 25 2013,17:44) He is the Father of our local universe, a representative of the Paradice Trenity.
I can't read that in scripture, so I disagree.Quote (Colter @ Aug. 25 2013,17:44) Paul actually thought Jesus was th second person of th Trinity but he got that wrong.
There is nothing in scripture to imply Paul thought any such thing, so I disagree.Quote (Colter @ Aug. 25 2013,17:44) I do understand your protestation about how Jesus was not saying he was a Son of a Father and the Father —-> in totality<—– at the same time.
Then you agree that the Son is NOT the Father? So why have you been claiming so hard-headedly that he IS?
Yes, it's in scripture, don't know how you reworked it:The Eternal Word
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend[a] it.
Because, Jesus embodies all of the spiritual personality attributes of the Father. We cannot see the infinate Father….but we could see the creator Son were he to return today. As a decker able personality reality the Father could on come to earth as his beloved Son for no man can SEE God and live.
Colter
I meant to say an experiencable personality reality the Fathe could only come to earth in the persons of his Sons.
C
Quote (Colter @ Aug. 25 2013,11:10) Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 25 2013,10:32) Quote (t8 @ Aug. 25 2013,10:12) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 25 2013,08:41) The bottom line is that you believe Jesus IS the very God he is the SON OF. I find that belief ludicrous, nonsensical, and frankly laughable.
There really is no other way to say it Mike. That describes it.People who get caught up in the religions of men accept the most ludicrous of beliefs. And in any other field the same people are way more critical.
Actually if I am correct Colter believe that Michael i a personification of God which became the personification of Jesus so to Colter Jesus is Michael who is God but not really though only in the sense of being a trinity with more than a trinity capacity, if that makes any sense please explain it to me…lol
Infinity is prepersonal.C
Was that an answer?I asked you was Michael a personification of God and if so is Jesus a personification of Michael?
If the answer is yes are Michael and Jesus the same person or are they two different beings?
Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 26 2013,15:06) Quote (Colter @ Aug. 25 2013,11:10) Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 25 2013,10:32) Quote (t8 @ Aug. 25 2013,10:12) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 25 2013,08:41) The bottom line is that you believe Jesus IS the very God he is the SON OF. I find that belief ludicrous, nonsensical, and frankly laughable.
There really is no other way to say it Mike. That describes it.People who get caught up in the religions of men accept the most ludicrous of beliefs. And in any other field the same people are way more critical.
Actually if I am correct Colter believe that Michael i a personification of God which became the personification of Jesus so to Colter Jesus is Michael who is God but not really though only in the sense of being a trinity with more than a trinity capacity, if that makes any sense please explain it to me…lol
Infinity is prepersonal.C
Was that an answer?I asked you was Michael a personification of God and if so is Jesus a personification of Michael?
If the answer is yes are Michael and Jesus the same person or are they two different beings?
Yes, Michael is the heavenly name of the Creator Son, the local representative/personification of the Father to our sector in the universe. After the successful incarnation he is known as “Christ Michael”.Gabriel came down from the heavenly realm to inform Mary that she and Joseph had been chosen as the earth parents of the incarnate Son, he was to be named Joshua ben Joseph, Jesus.
This was revealed to the apostle John on Patmos, pieces of it remain in the so called “Book of Revelation.”
Colter
Jesus is a Son of the Eternal Son.
The Urantia Book
Paper 6The Eternal Son
(73.1) 6:0.1 THE Eternal Son is the perfect and final expression of the “first” personal and absolute concept of the Universal Father. Accordingly, whenever and however the Father personally and absolutely expresses himself, he does so through his Eternal Son, who ever has been, now is, and ever will be, the living and divine Word. And this Eternal Son is residential at the center of all things, in association with, and immediately enshrouding the personal presence of, the Eternal and Universal Father.
(73.2) 6:0.2 We speak of God’s “first” thought and allude to an impossible time origin of the Eternal Son for the purpose of gaining access to the thought channels of the human intellect. Such distortions of language represent our best efforts at contact-compromise with the time-bound minds of mortal creatures. In the sequential sense the Universal Father never could have had a first thought, nor could the Eternal Son ever have had a beginning. But I was instructed to portray the realities of eternity to the time-limited minds of mortals by such symbols of thought and to designate the relationships of eternity by such time concepts of sequentiality.
(73.3) 6:0.3 The Eternal Son is the spiritual personalization of the Paradise Father’s universal and infinite concept of divine reality, unqualified spirit, and absolute personality. And thereby does the Son constitute the divine revelation of the creator identity of the Universal Father. The perfect personality of the Son discloses that the Father is actually the eternal and universal source of all the meanings and values of the spiritual, the volitional, the purposeful, and the personal.
(73.4) 6:0.4 In an effort to enable the finite mind of time to form some sequential concept of the relationships of the eternal and infinite beings of the Paradise Trinity, we utilize such license of conception as to refer to the “Father’s first personal, universal, and infinite concept.” It is impossible for me to convey to the human mind any adequate idea of the eternal relations of the Deities; therefore do I employ such terms as will afford the finite mind something of an idea of the relationship of these eternal beings in the subsequent eras of time. We believe the Son sprang from the Father; we are taught that both are unqualifiedly eternal. It is apparent, therefore, that no time creature can ever fully comprehend this mystery of a Son who is derived from the Father, and yet who is co-ordinately eternal with the Father himself.
Quote (Colter @ Aug. 26 2013,04:49) Jesus is a Son of the Eternal Son.
So then Jesus ISN'T “the Eternal Son”?And isn't it “the Eternal Son” who “is” the Father?
Or are all the “paradise creator sons” also “the Eternal Father”?
Are you saying that the GRANDSON of the Father also IS the Father?
Quote (Colter @ Aug. 25 2013,18:02) The Eternal Word 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
But you just said that Jesus WASN'T “the Eternal Son”, right? And wouldn't it be “the ETERNAL Son” who is also “the ETERNAL Word”?(Also, God can never be WITH God unless you are speaking of TWO Gods. It is impossible for one to be WITH himself. You need to find a more faithful and accurate translation of John 1:1c. Try the Coptic or NWT.
)Quote (Colter @ Aug. 26 2013,12:48) Plenty of people understand the philosophical aproach that the revelators of the UB took in explaining the sharing and lovable nature of the pre-personal, infinite I AM. Jesus revealed it in his teaching, its in the gospels. Billions of deciples of Jesus can see what is so plainly written. Something in your head or heart, is blocking you in the same way he Jews disbelieve. Call it whatever you want, hide from the devilish boogy man under your bed, that's your choice.
Your “foundation” is no different than the one used to reject Christ, same sort of intellectual egotism.
Colter
Another one caught in the trap.Babylon Trinity or your heart is blocked.
Babylon Trinity or you will burn at the stake.
Babylon Trinity or you will burn in Hell forever.
Babylon Trinity or you are stupid.There is always an excuse.
I guess it is true. The whole world is drunk on the wine of Babylon.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 27 2013,12:46) Quote (Colter @ Aug. 26 2013,04:49) Jesus is a Son of the Eternal Son.
So then Jesus ISN'T “the Eternal Son”?And isn't it “the Eternal Son” who “is” the Father?
Or are all the “paradise creator sons” also “the Eternal Father”?
Are you saying that the GRANDSON of the Father also IS the Father?
Mike, in truth you are just being argumentative now, you are insincere. I've provided the explanations repeatedly but you insist upon thinking like a child. The Universal Father in the infinite I AM we cant know him as a personality reality, but because of his lovable nature and his plan for creation, he has chosen to down step and reveal himself to us in the persons of his representative Sons.Quibble with God about it.
Colter
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 27 2013,12:48) Quote (Colter @ Aug. 25 2013,18:02) The Eternal Word 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
But you just said that Jesus WASN'T “the Eternal Son”, right? And wouldn't it be “the ETERNAL Son” who is also “the ETERNAL Word”?(Also, God can never be WITH God unless you are speaking of TWO Gods. It is impossible for one to be WITH himself. You need to find a more faithful and accurate translation of John 1:1c. Try the Coptic or NWT.
)
Sounds like Jesus needed a translator, he mislead sooooo many people.
I often tell anti Trinitarians they should just rewrite the Bible and fix all of its missleadings. Not that the Bible books haven't been redacted a number of times already and for the same reasons.
Colter
Quote (Colter @ Aug. 28 2013,00:50) Quibble with God about it.
Do you mean the Urantia Trinity or the Heavenly Father?Quote (Colter @ Aug. 28 2013,01:05) Sounds like Jesus needed a translator, he mislead sooooo many people. I often tell anti Trinitarians they should just rewrite the Bible and fix all of its missleadings. Not that the Bible books haven't been redacted a number of times already and for the same reasons.
Colter
Let's see you back this up with a verse in the Bible that clearly teaches the Trinity.Nothing obscure please.
Where is the Trinity in the Bible.
If you argue it is there, then where?
Quote (t8 @ Aug. 27 2013,22:11) Quote (Colter @ Aug. 28 2013,01:05) Sounds like Jesus needed a translator, he mislead sooooo many people. I often tell anti Trinitarians they should just rewrite the Bible and fix all of its missleadings. Not that the Bible books haven't been redacted a number of times already and for the same reasons.
Colter
Let's see you back this up with a verse in the Bible that clearly teaches the Trinity.Nothing obscure please.
Where is the Trinity in the Bible.
If you argue it is there, then where?
The UB concept of the Trinity is NOT taught in the current book collection of the common Bible.Also, there is no chapter on The Christian Trinity in the same either.
Trinitarians and the subsequent controversies surrounding the concept grew out of the presence of plural deity within the text which has, as its foundation, the Oneness of deity.
However, the controversy within the early church did not grow out of extra biblical ideas or (Babylon) rather from the teachings of Jesus while on earth and then his disciples.
I will grant you the consequential inconsistency resulting from the Churches attempt to understand and standardize the humanly incomprehensible concept of the infinite I AM expressed in 3 personalities as ONE and how Jesus and the Holy spirit fits into it. But to follow the anti Trinitarians to the end results in even greater error.
The Christian concept of the Trinity is factually wrong but generally spiritually accurate. God is spirit after all.
Source Wiki:
From the Old Testament the early church retained the conviction that God is one.[67] The New Testament does not use the word Τριάς (Trinity)[68] nor explicitly teach the Nicene trinitarian doctrine, but there are several passages which use twofold and threefold patterns to speak of God. Binitarian passages include Rom. 8:11, 2 Cor. 4:14, Galatians 1:1, Eph. 1:20, 1 Tim. 1:2, 1 Pet. 1:21, and 2 John 1:13. Passages which refer to the Godhead with a threefold pattern include Matt. 28:19, 1 Cor. 6:11 and 12:4ff., Gal. 3:11–14, Heb. 10:29, and 1 Pet. 1:2. These passages provided the material with which Christians would develop doctrines of the Trinity.[67] Reflection by early Christians on passages such as the Great Commission: “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit”[Matt 28:19] and Paul the Apostle's blessing: “The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all”,[2 Cor. 13:14] while at the same time the Jewish Shema Yisrael: “Hear, O Israel: the Lord our God, the Lord is one”[Deuteronomy 6:4][69] led the early Christians to question how the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are “one”. Later, the diverse references to God, Jesus, and the Spirit found in the New Testament were systematized into a Trinity—one God subsisting in three persons and one substance—to combat heretical tendencies of how the three are related and to defend the church against charges of worshiping two or three gods.[70]
Some scholars dispute the idea that support for the Trinity can be found in the Bible, and argue that the doctrine is the result of theological interpretations rather than sound exegesis of scripture.[71][72] The concept was expressed in early writings from the beginning of the 2nd century forward, and other scholars hold that the way the New Testament repeatedly speaks of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit is such as to require one to accept a trinitarian understanding.[39]
Colter
Quote (t8 @ Aug. 27 2013,22:10) Quote (Colter @ Aug. 28 2013,00:50) Quibble with God about it.
Do you mean the Urantia Trinity or the Heavenly Father?
Well, God and the temporary man-God Jr sitting in the chair next to him, if that’s how you need to conceptualize. Argue with them about how stupid people are for believing in the plurality of Oneness.Colter
Quote (Colter @ Aug. 27 2013,06:27) Quote (t8 @ Aug. 27 2013,22:11) Quote (Colter @ Aug. 28 2013,01:05)
I often tell anti Trinitarians they should just rewrite the Bible and fix all of its missleadings.
Let's see you back this up with a verse in the Bible that clearly teaches the Trinity.If you argue it is there, then where?
The UB concept of the Trinity is NOT taught in the current book collection of the common Bible.Also, there is no chapter on The Christian Trinity in the same either.
So then neither one of them are actually IN the Bible? 
Quote (Colter @ Aug. 27 2013,04:50) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 27 2013,12:46) Quote (Colter @ Aug. 26 2013,04:49) Jesus is a Son of the Eternal Son.
So then Jesus ISN'T “the Eternal Son”?And isn't it “the Eternal Son” who “is” the Father?
Or are all the “paradise creator sons” also “the Eternal Father”?
Are you saying that the GRANDSON of the Father also IS the Father?
Mike, in truth you are just being argumentative now, you are insincere.
No, no, no, Colter. I'm not asking you to post that mumble jumble that I can't even understand again. I'm asking YOU some very simple questions about what you claim to teach – because it seems to me that you say one thing one time, and another thing another time.I want simple answers IN YOUR OWN WORDS.
Is Jesus “the ETERNAL son” or not? And if not (as I think you said), then isn't it “the ETERNAL son” who is also the Father?
And if that IS the case, (as I think you said), how is it that you claim that our Jesus, who is NOT “the ETERNAL son”, IS the Father?
Are the paradise creator sons ALSO the Father/I AM?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 28 2013,13:08) Quote (Colter @ Aug. 27 2013,04:50) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 27 2013,12:46) Quote (Colter @ Aug. 26 2013,04:49) Jesus is a Son of the Eternal Son.
So then Jesus ISN'T “the Eternal Son”?And isn't it “the Eternal Son” who “is” the Father?
Or are all the “paradise creator sons” also “the Eternal Father”?
Are you saying that the GRANDSON of the Father also IS the Father?
Mike, in truth you are just being argumentative now, you are insincere.
No, no, no, Colter. I'm not asking you to post that mumble jumble that I can't even understand again. I'm asking YOU some very simple questions about what you claim to teach – because it seems to me that you say one thing one time, and another thing another time.I want simple answers IN YOUR OWN WORDS.
Is Jesus “the ETERNAL son” or not? And if not (as I think you said), then isn't it “the ETERNAL son” who is also the Father?
And if that IS the case, (as I think you said), how is it that you claim that our Jesus, who is NOT “the ETERNAL son”, IS the Father?
Are the paradise creator sons ALSO the Father/I AM?
That's the problem with you Mike —>you<— want "simple answers" to complex spiritual relationships.When you read the teachings of Jesus, the questions put forth to him, the puzzlement of the apostles, he also appeared to “say one thing one time, and another thing another time” and for the same reasons; Jesus was a divine being having a human experience while subject to the will of the Father (who is the very source of his divinity).
Colter
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 28 2013,13:03) Quote (Colter @ Aug. 27 2013,06:27) Quote (t8 @ Aug. 27 2013,22:11) Quote (Colter @ Aug. 28 2013,01:05)
I often tell anti Trinitarians they should just rewrite the Bible and fix all of its missleadings.
Let's see you back this up with a verse in the Bible that clearly teaches the Trinity.If you argue it is there, then where?
The UB concept of the Trinity is NOT taught in the current book collection of the common Bible.Also, there is no chapter on The Christian Trinity in the same either.
So then neither one of them are actually IN the Bible?
I suppose in the same way that the current Books, which make up the Bible, make no claim of divine authorship and certainly not inerrancy yet, you bought that extra-conical idea hook, line and sinker. The Bible is, at best aboutThe Word, it doesn't claim to be The Word. The river bed is no The river
Colter
Your defense against the scriptures is no defense at all.
And being seduced by doctrine of demons happens to people who are wayward in their heart. If a person seeks for the truth and remains humble in their search, they will find the truth.
You have rejected the scriptures, but more importantly, you have rejected the gospel.
Until such point you reassess this, you will remain lost in the wilderness.You have the rest of your natural life to find the way. Who knows how long that will be.
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