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Hi CO,
Rev 20
” 12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
So men are thrown into the lake of fire, the second death?
What about them all being saved?Hi,
Rom11
21For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.22Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Hi,
Universalism is not of faith but of philosophy.
It picks and chooses from scripture verses that seem to justify such a stance.
But it denies the need for any gospel and pours scorn on those who have suffered and died for faith.Heb11
32And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:33Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions.
34Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.
35Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:
36And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:
37They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
38(Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
39And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
40God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
1Peter 4
1Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;2That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.
3For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:
4Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you:
5Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.
6For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
7But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.
8And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.
9Use hospitality one to another without grudging.
10As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.
11If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
12Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
13But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
14If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.
15But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.
16Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.
17For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
18And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
19Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 11 2007,13:07) Hi CO,
Rev 20
” 12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
So men are thrown into the lake of fire, the second death?
What about them all being saved?
Nick….Your problem is you don't realize that the lake of fire is symbolic of intense judgment. And the second death is equates the fact that these people who will experience it, never put there Wills to death when they were alive the first time like Jesus and the Saints did, and they will be cast into intense Judgments i.e. lake of fire. And then will repent and be saved. The book of revelation was symbolized and can not be understood without knowing what these symbols mean. Do you honestly think God is going to cast 98% of all humanity His creation into a ever burning lake of literal fire, and watch them scream out into all eternity in agony and pain., what kind of God do you believe in, And out of the other side of your mouth say GOD IS LOVE> give me a break. Your God is cruel and weak and is unable to save anyone, unless they somehow figure out by themselves how to save themselves, by the so called (free will), and must do this,even though God gave them (CARNAL) minds, which are enemies of GOD not Subject to the laws of God Neither indeed (CAN BE). So lets see your picture you draw . God didn't really conclude (ALL) under sin that he might have (MERCY) on (ALL) after all did He. And he is not able to take out the stony heart and give a heart of flesh (a soft heart) Your God is to weak to really do that for everyone right, “O” except for a picky few like you right. You can have the God you serve, I'll take the God who I serve any day of the week who is not willing for any to parish and with His creative power cause all to eventually to be saved even if they have to go through fiery judgments and trials. The God you portray is a monster , not a loving, forgiving , Creator who is not willing that any parish. I would watch how I Portray Him if I were Your. He might become to you which you think he is to others.IMO………..gene
Nick…..You would think that the fact that it shows hell and death cast into the lake of fire, that would give you some idea,it was symbolic written, how do you literally throw death and hell in a literal fire. And also notice it says and howsoever was not found written in the book of life,what if everyone was written in the book of life, and if God really has counted (ALL) under sin so that He might have mercy on (ALL), then i guess all are written in the book of life. You limit Your God to some one weak and really unable to really save His own creation, pretty sad if you as me. Your view of GOD is typical most all religious people see him that way, a God whose is going to burn everyone else up but of course Not them. They operate through the medium of fear, but what does it say, “The Fearful and Unbelieving will have their part in the lake of fire, interesting isn't it. But love cast out fear, what are you casting out love or fear.
IMO…………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 24 2008,12:01) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 11 2007,13:07) Hi CO,
Rev 20
” 12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
So men are thrown into the lake of fire, the second death?
What about them all being saved?
Nick….Your problem is you don't realize that the lake of fire is symbolic of intense judgment. And the second death is equates the fact that these people who will experience it, never put there Wills to death when they were alive the first time like Jesus and the Saints did, and they will be cast into intense Judgments i.e. lake of fire. And then will repent and be saved. The book of revelation was symbolized and can not be understood without knowing what these symbols mean. Do you honestly think God is going to cast 98% of all humanity His creation into a ever burning lake of literal fire, and watch them scream out into all eternity in agony and pain., what kind of God do you believe in, And out of the other side of your mouth say GOD IS LOVE> give me a break. Your God is cruel and weak and is unable to save anyone, unless they somehow figure out by themselves how to save themselves, by the so called (free will), and must do this,even though God gave them (CARNAL) minds, which are enemies of GOD not Subject to the laws of God Neither indeed (CAN BE). So lets see your picture you draw . God didn't really conclude (ALL) under sin that he might have (MERCY) on (ALL) after all did He. And he is not able to take out the stony heart and give a heart of flesh (a soft heart) Your God is to weak to really do that for everyone right, “O” except for a picky few like you right. You can have the God you serve, I'll take the God who I serve any day of the week who is not willing for any to parish and with His creative power cause all to eventually to be saved even if they have to go through fiery judgments and trials. The God you portray is a monster , not a loving, forgiving , Creator who is not willing that any parish. I would watch how I Portray Him if I were Your. He might become to you which you think he is to others.IMO………..gene
Hi GB,
Why do you mix so much speculation with truth?James 3:12
Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 24 2008,12:29) Nick…..You would think that the fact that it shows hell and death cast into the lake of fire, that would give you some idea,it was symbolic written, how do you literally throw death and hell in a literal fire. And also notice it says and howsoever was not found written in the book of life,what if everyone was written in the book of life, and if God really has counted (ALL) under sin so that He might have mercy on (ALL), then i guess all are written in the book of life. You limit Your God to some one weak and really unable to really save His own creation, pretty sad if you as me. Your view of GOD is typical most all religious people see him that way, a God whose is going to burn everyone else up but of course Not them. They operate through the medium of fear, but what does it say, “The Fearful and Unbelieving will have their part in the lake of fire, interesting isn't it. But love cast out fear, what are you casting out love or fear. IMO…………..gene
Hi gene,
Seems a rather random and disorderly approach to understanding sacred scripture.
Is this really what you believe about scripture?
No wonder you speculate.
Believe.Are you not aware of the abundant mercy of God? He says mercy triumphs over judgement, but we should not rashly speculate that all men will be saved. That would make the painful mission of His son and the gospel of repentance for forgiveness of sins unnecessary
Nick………Wrong from what you are saying it's you who is not believing in God's mercy and forgiveness, except for you of course. If what i said is a speculation please show us were it is, be specific if you can. It seem you are the one speculating the death of millions of God children by saying there going to the lake of fire, not me.
I believe He will save all his children yet as by fire. Here is some back up on my part, “for every mans work will be manifested, if he has built with gold, silver, precious stones , he shall receive a reward, if he has built with hay, straw, stubble, it shall be burned up, (BUT) HE HIMSELF SHALL BE SAVED YET AS BY FIRE< is this the fire you believe in, the one that does not save but burns them up in eternal agony for all eternity.
Hi Nick,
That's not the way of answering an arguement, you produce evidence to somebody so that you can also win the debate. But just quoting some verses as if you are judging some body. That's not in good taste my friend.
AdamQuote (Gene Balthrop @ June 24 2008,14:14) Nick………Wrong from what you are saying it's you who is not believing in God's mercy and forgiveness, except for you of course. If what i said is a speculation please show us were it is, be specific if you can. It seem you are the one speculating the death of millions of God children by saying there going to the lake of fire, not me. I believe He will save all his children yet as by fire. Here is some back up on my part, “for every mans work will be manifested, if he has built with gold, silver, precious stones , he shall receive a reward, if he has built with hay, straw, stubble, it shall be burned up, (BUT) HE HIMSELF SHALL BE SAVED YET AS BY FIRE< is this the fire you believe in, the one that does not save but burns them up in eternal agony for all eternity.
Hi GB,
You quote from 1Cor3?
5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.This is written to the saints
1Cor1
1 Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:So the works spoken of here are those of the obedient servants of God, not the pagan man on the street. You should correctly cut the Word and not apply scriptures inappropriately.
Hi GB,
You quote Rom3?
20Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.21But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Belief in Jesus is paramount to the way of God's salvation IN HIM.
Hi GB,
You say
“You can have the God you serve, I'll take the God who I serve any day of the week who is not willing for any to parish and with His creative power cause all to eventually to be saved even if they have to go through fiery judgments and trials. “You god is not shown in scripture.
The presumptive minds of men have formed your god it seems.Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 24 2008,14:33) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 24 2008,14:14) Nick………Wrong from what you are saying it's you who is not believing in God's mercy and forgiveness, except for you of course. If what i said is a speculation please show us were it is, be specific if you can. It seem you are the one speculating the death of millions of God children by saying there going to the lake of fire, not me. I believe He will save all his children yet as by fire. Here is some back up on my part, “for every mans work will be manifested, if he has built with gold, silver, precious stones , he shall receive a reward, if he has built with hay, straw, stubble, it shall be burned up, (BUT) HE HIMSELF SHALL BE SAVED YET AS BY FIRE< is this the fire you believe in, the one that does not save but burns them up in eternal agony for all eternity.
Hi GB,
You quote from 1Cor3?
5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.This is written to the saints
1Cor1
1 Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:So the works spoken of here are those of the obedient servants of God, not the pagan man on the street. You should correctly cut the Word and not apply scriptures inappropriately.
Nick.
You err (as usual) when you say Pauls messages are to the “saints” only. His letters are “addressed” to the saints in various districts, but are for all the nations, while Christ Jesus message is only for “The lost sheep of the house of Israel”.
See Ro.15:8 For I (Paul) am saying that Christ has become the Servant of the Circumcision, for the sake of the truth of God, to confirm the patriarchal promises.
While “Paul” for the “Nations” (See Ro.15:15-16)
… because of the grace being given to me (Paul) from God,
16 for me to be the minister of Christ Jesus for the nations, acting as a priest of the evangel of God, that the approach present of the nations may be becoming well received, having been hallowed by holy spirit.
I believe it is you who needs to know how “to correctly cut the word of truth” (2Tim.2:15)
You must read “All” scripture, not just parts you feel will prove your “Gosspel of Nick”.Blessings.
Nick.
As usual, when stumped by proof of scripture, just post a meaningless statement to get you off the hook. This last post is really ….!Blessings.
Hi CO,
1Paul called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,2Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:
3Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
4I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ;
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