Universalism

Participant

Quote (chosenone @ May 16 2010,06:46)

terraricca.

Quote

there is no support for you UNIVERSALISM in scriptures,this is only your personal views of the bible not the truth of God.

THE fancied difficulties arising from a belief in the universal reconciliation are nothing compared with the traditional beliefs about fate of the “non-elect” dead. The millions who never heard the evangel and had humanly speaking not the slightest opportunity to believe– what of them? What of the character of God Himself, Who seems unable to bring His creation into harmony with His will and heart? What of the work of Christ as compared with the success of the Adversary?
There is no truth so potent as that of Colossians 1:20 … “and through Him (Christ) to reconcile all to Him (God) (making peace through the blood of His cross), through Him, whether those on the earth or those in the heavens”, in reaching those whom the traditional teaching has failed to touch. Nothing is so powerful in the case of the open infidel. Much of the gospel effort of today has lost its vitality and knows little of God’s sovereign grace. God grant that there may be a little reviving and that the recovery of these precious truths may rekindle the zeal of many, for the furtherance of the evangel!

Some other scriptures you say don't exist.
1Tim.4:9-11 …10 (for for this are we toiling and being reproached), that we rely on the living God, Who is the Saviour of all mankind, especially of believers.
11 These things be charging and teaching.

1Tim.2:3-4 …3 for this is ideal and welcome in the sight of our Saviour, God,
4 Who wills that all mankind be saved and come into a realization of the truth.

In Isaiah.46:10 God says “All My desire wiil I do”. Do you disagree with His Word?

Show some scriptures that say the opposite, that some will be eternally separated, or punished in Hell, or cease to exist.

God Bless, Jerry.

hi CO

1Ti 4:6 If you point these things out to the brothers, you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, brought up in the truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed.
1Ti 4:7 Have nothing to do with godless myths and old wives’ tales; rather, train yourself to be godly.
1Ti 4:8 For physical training is of some value, but godliness has value for all things, holding promise for both the present life and the life to come.
1Ti 4:9 This is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance
1Ti 4:10 (and for this we labor and strive), that we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe.
1Ti 4:11 Command and teach these things.
1Ti 4:12 Don’t let anyone look down on you because you are young, but set an example for the believers in speech, in life, in love, in faith and in purity.
1Ti 4:13 Until I come, devote yourself to the public reading of Scripture, to preaching and to teaching.

wen i quote the scriptures i quote them all so people do not receive some misinformed guidance and believe what is not to be believed;
so Paul was counselling Timothy to follow his advise.

were do you see UNIVERSALISM???

1Ti 2:1 I urge, then, first of all, that requests, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for everyone—
1Ti 2:2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness.
1Ti 2:3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
1Ti 2:6 who gave himself as a ransom for all men—the testimony given in its proper time.
1Ti 2:7 And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—and a teacher of the true faith to the Gentiles

again Paul still give counseling to Timothy how to deal with thing at hand,
Paul does not say that God saves all men ,he says to pray for all men so they can live in peace ,and that it is God wish that all men comes to be saved by coming to a knowledge of the truth.

NO UNIVERSALISM HERE ?

Isa 46:8 “Remember this, fix it in mind,
take it to heart, you rebels.
Isa 46:9 Remember the former things, those of long ago;
I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is none like me.
Isa 46:10 I make known the end from the beginning,
from ancient times, what is still to come.
I say: My purpose will stand,
and I will do all that I please

again this verse states that it is the will Of God who will be done and not of others
NO UNIVERSALISM HERE ?

Pierre

May 18, 2010 at 2:29 pm#191156

GeneBalthrop

Participant

Terraricca……….THE WILL OF GOD (IS) A (UNIVERSAL) WILL, BECAUSE HIS WILL WILL BE DONE. Rather you or anyone else likes it of not. Try to find scripture that goes against other scriptures that Chosenone and I have quoted is not the work of a Scripture believing Person, but someone trying to push his own personal views, Why don't you address the Scriptures Chosenone posted instead of quoting a who bunch of scripture that has nothing to do with the scriptures quoted nor are they against what He quoted. Why do you continue to deny the POWER of GOD and His ability to SAVE Whomever HE wishes to? Does GOD need your consent or Nicks to save anyone he choses to. Are you clay vessels telling the potter what he can or can not do?.

peace and love…………………gene

May 19, 2010 at 12:23 am#191172

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 19 2010,01:29)

peace and love…………………gene

gene

were does it says that all men will be saved no matter what they do,??

and that even the demons and the corupt angels will be saved?

because God is so good that he will save all,

Show us that this is all what God try to teach us from the beginning ,

also the fact that God does his will does not mean that he will not destroye the wicket ones if that is his will.

God is GOOD but not stupid, his will is to allow all men to come to Christ to be saved ones.

then judgement;Jn 3:19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.
Jn 3:20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.
Jn 3:21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God.”

May 19, 2010 at 2:27 am#191178

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ May 16 2010,10:32)

Quote (chosenone @ May 16 2010,06:46)

terraricca.

Quote

there is no support for you UNIVERSALISM in scriptures,this is only your personal views of the bible not the truth of God.

1Tim.2:3-4 …3 for this is ideal and welcome in the sight of our Saviour, God,
4 Who wills that all mankind be saved and come into a realization of the truth.

In Isaiah.46:10 God says “All My desire wiil I do”. Do you disagree with His Word?

Show some scriptures that say the opposite, that some will be eternally separated, or punished in Hell, or cease to exist.

God Bless, Jerry.

hi CO

wen i quote the scriptures i quote them all so people do not receive some misinformed guidance and believe what is not to be believed;
so Paul was counselling Timothy to follow his advise.

were do you see UNIVERSALISM???

NO UNIVERSALISM HERE ?

again this verse states that it is the will Of God who will be done and not of others
NO UNIVERSALISM HERE ?

Pierre

terraricca.
You post a large amount of scripture above and below those I quoted, how does this change what is written? It plainly says “all will be saved”. When I asked you to post scripture that says some will be eternally damned, destroyed, or something else, you don't bother to answer.

Again, you accuse that scripture does not say all will be saved, yet when I quote scripture that does say it, you gloss it over with additional scripture that does not change the meaning, and yet you won't quote any scripture that says all will NOT be saved.

So I will ask again… Please quote scripture that says “ALL WILL NOT BE SAVED”, as you so strongly believe.

Blessings, Jerry.

May 19, 2010 at 2:03 pm#191238

Participant

you say;;terraricca.
You post a large amount of scripture above and below those I quoted, how does this change what is written? It plainly says “all will be saved”. When I asked you to post scripture that says some will be eternally damned, destroyed, or something else, you don't bother to answer.

So I will ask again… Please quote scripture that says “ALL WILL NOT BE SAVED”, as you so strongly believe.

Blessings, Jerry.

answer;;Mt 10:22 All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.
Mt 19:25 When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”
Mt 24:13 but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.

Mk 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
Lk 7:50 Jesus said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”
Lk 8:12 Those along the path are the ones who hear, and then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved.

Ac 2:21 And everyone who calls
on the name of the Lord will be saved.’

Ro 9:27 Isaiah cries out concerning Israel:
“Though the number of the Israelites be like the sand by the sea,
only the remnant will be saved

Ro 10:9 That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Ro 10:10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.
Ro 10:13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

1Co 1:18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

1Co 10:33 even as I try to please everybody in every way. For I am not seeking my own good but the good of many, so that they may be saved.
1Co 15:2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

Eph 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—
Phil 1:28 without being frightened in any way by those who oppose you. This is a sign to them that they will be destroyed, but that you will be saved—and that by God.

2Th 2:10 and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.

2Th 2:13 But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God chose you to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth.
1Ti 2:4 who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
1Ti 2:15 But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
2Ti 1:9 who has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time,
Tit 3:5 he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,
Heb 10:39 But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who believe and are saved.
1Pe 3:20 who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,
1Pe 4:18 And,
“If it is hard for the righteous to be saved,
what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?”

this is but a few so you may look at it.

Pierre

May 19, 2010 at 2:44 pm#191242

GeneBalthrop

Participant

Terraricca………..First You say were are saying all will be saved “NO MATTER WHAT THEY DO” That is a false statement of what we have said. Where have we indicated that no matter what a person is doing they will be saved? We are saying the will be changed by the effectual working of GOD and Cleansed from their sins they will be transformed into new beings by the spirit of GOD. But you on the other hand believe GOD is to Weak to do this and unable to effect his will on his creation. You “profess God but deny His Power”.

Terraricca…………..Here is something to think about………Jesus said ,” I took my place in the midst of the world, and I appeared to them in flesh. I found all of them intoxicated : I found (none) of them thirsty: And my soul became affected for the sons of men, because they are blind in their hearts and do not have sight: for empty they came into the world, and empty too they seek to leave the world. But for the moment they are intoxicated. When they shake off their wine, then they will repent.

These are the secret sayings which the living Jesus spoke and which Didymos Judas Thomas wrote down. Men are indeed intoxicated (Spiritually) and until this intoxicated state is removes they will remain that way , but a time will come when GOD will cause them to all to become Sober and deliver them from their stupor they are in. IMO

peace and love to you and yours……………………..gene

May 19, 2010 at 5:29 pm#191251

Participant

terrariccca.
In the scripture you quote, the terms, lost,destroyed, perish, and unsaved, are never “eternal”. Did not Jesus say “the Temple will be destroyed, but I will rebuild it in 3 days? So to “destroy” does not mean “eternally”. Also after the death, there is a ressurrection, then also a “second death”.
The thought that the resurrection and judgment of the unbeliever is only a prelude to his final “destruction” in the lake of fire must be judged by its moral effect, for it has no support whatever in the Scriptures. In the first place “destruction” (by which annihilation or extinction of being is intended), is never used of the lake of fire or of the second death. It is always used of the sinner before his resurrection at the great white throne. Those who are “destroyed” in Gehenna will be there. Those who “perished” in the wilderness and at the flood will be raised. “Destruction” is never annihilation. It never precludes resurrection and salvation. Indeed, it is a necessary precursor of salvation. The Lord came to seek and to save the “destroyed” (lost). So that, even if there were a single passage telling us that the unbeliever is “destroyed” in the second death (which there is not) we would still have every reason to believe God when He assured us that all who are dying in Adam shall be made alive in Christ (1 Cor.15:22).
Let no one suppose that we plead for the repeal of God’s word regarding the doom of the unbeliever. Far from it. But we do plead for the removal of those harsh, human perversions of His word, which seek to make Him a man like ourselves, hateful and hating one another, vindictive and vicious in our views of the so-called “penalties” of sin. We plead for a revision of our vocabulary on this important theme.
The terms destroy and destruction are so often used of irrecoverable ruin that a few examples will be given to show how far this is from the truth. The rendering “lost” is always the translation of the word for destroy. It would be the utmost folly for the Son of Mankind to seek, much less to save those who are annihilated. The lost sheep and the lost coin and the lost prodigal all had been destroyed, yet all were found and saved. Were the whole world lost or destroyed in the lake of fire, that would be no hindrance to salvation. Rather, it would be the very sphere in which alone salvation can operate. Christ cannot save anyone unless first he is destroyed, or lost.

God Bless, Jerry.

May 19, 2010 at 7:10 pm#191266

Participant

CO and Gene

well i figure you know what you believe and i do not feel to keep up that discussion further to no were
i do also believe strongly that i can not let down my sword of truth and believe what you are teaching
so we will leave it to God for judgement.

Pierre

May 20, 2010 at 12:04 am#191287

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ May 20 2010,06:10)

CO and Gene

Pierre

Hi Pierre.
I agree with you, we won't change each others mind. I enjoyed our discussions, but you are right, we'll leave it to God, who… ” in Him in Whom our lot was cast also, being designated beforehand according to the purpose of the One Who is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will,” (Eph.1:11)

God Bless, Jerry.

May 20, 2010 at 2:36 am#191297

GeneBalthrop

Participant

Terraricca…………..I agree with that also. It does seem we are not going to change each others minds.

peace and Love to you and yours…………………………gene

July 23, 2010 at 7:29 pm#205657

Participant

Hi ED,
Are you a proponent of this heretical view?

July 24, 2010 at 6:04 am#205697

Participant

The heretical view that some will be punished for eternity?

July 25, 2010 at 7:04 pm#205902

Participant

Hi ED,
The food of the heavenly children is not meant for the dogs of earth.
Check the addresses at the beginnings of the apostle's writings

July 26, 2010 at 5:51 am#205983

Participant

You and I read Pauls epistles, it wasn't addressed to us, does this mean we shouldn't read it? Use common sense!

July 27, 2010 at 1:51 am#206094

Participant

Hi CO,
The reborn ones in every generation since Jesus are one in Christ.
The saints in Rome of Ephesus are not different to those on earth in Christ now.
But the natural men of earth have no place in the kingdom till they are reborn from above.

The letters to the saints are only further witnesses to their imminent death.

July 27, 2010 at 4:03 am#206127

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 20 2010,08:44)

peace and love to you and yours……………………..gene

gene

and like always your comments are full of scriptures quotes.

Pierre

July 27, 2010 at 4:06 am#206129

Ed J

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 24 2010,06:29)

Hi ED,
Are you a proponent of this heretical view?

Hi Nick,

Explain to me what it is?

God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

July 27, 2010 at 4:07 am#206131

Participant

Hi ED,
Perhaps googling it could help you?

July 27, 2010 at 4:12 am#206133

Ed J

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 27 2010,15:07)

Hi ED,
Perhaps googling it could help you?

Hi Nick,

I seen what it says in Wikipedia,
but that doesn't tell me 'your take' on it?

God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

July 27, 2010 at 4:40 am#206147