Universal Salvation

[meerkat]

You have seen the scriptures – you just don't believe them ….. It has do do with every knee bowing, and the end where all is brought into subjection (obedience) to Christ who in turn is subject to his Father ………

[NickHassan]

Hi MK,
No I do not believe that the bowing of the knee by the gentile nations who are alive at the time of the return of King Jesus is any indication that all men who have ever lived will be saved. All that remains after the time of the end of the created world we know will indeed be in subjection to God.

Do you have any better scriptures that say what you do?

[NickHassan]

Hi MK,
If you cannot find such verses then should you teach what scripture doesn't?

[meerkat]

1 Cor 22-28

Is talking about In Adam ALL (everyone) ALL die and In Christ ALL (everyone ) ALL shall be made alive – but everyone in their own order

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ.
1Co 15:24 Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.
1Co 15:27 For “God has put all things in subjection under his feet.” But when it says, “all things are put in subjection,” it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him.
1Co 15:28 When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.
Nowhere there does it say that the end is limited to only those physically alive at the time of Christ return – it says all enemies will be subject to Christ just as Christ is subject to his Father = obedient

G5293
ὑποτάσσω
hupotassō
hoop-ot-as'-so
From G5259 and G5021; to subordinate; reflexively to obey: – be under obedience (obedient), put under, subdue unto, (be, make) subject (to, unto), be (put) in subjection (to, under), submit self unto.

[NickHassan]

Hi MK,
Indeed all in Christ will be made alive.
But all are not in Christ as they have not entered through the gate.

[NickHassan]

Hi MK,
Paul does not overrule Jesus Christ and teach all men will be saved.
The letter was written to the saved.

They and all have lived since since who have obeyed God's righteous demands and have walked in His ways are all established in the body of Christ and ever alive in his Spirit.

But being joined with Christ is not automatic for all who live.
Just the brethren

Romans 7:4
Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God.

[meerkat]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 22 2008,15:36)

Hi MK, Indeed all in Christ will be made alive. But all are not in Christ as they have not entered through the gate.

Nick – It does not say (ALL in christ) = will be made alive

It says In Christ all will be made alive

To get it to say what you just said you have to change the order of the words

The first resurrection is the ones that are Christ's – the first to be made alive, then comes the end – those that are not Christ will be made Christ's

[NickHassan]

Hi MK,
Not all are joined with Christ
Col

6As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:

7Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.

8Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

9For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

10And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

11In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

12Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

13And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

1 Corinthians 6:17
But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

[meerkat]

Saviour of all men, especially believers

[NickHassan]

Hi MK,
Idolatry is not conjoined with the holy one of God.
1Cor 10
20But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.

21Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.

22Do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? are we stronger than he?

[NickHassan]

Hi MK,
Do you not experience the saving power of our God every day?

Did you think this verse written by Paul to the saved implies a hidden mystery that God will change His mind?

Jn3
16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

21But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

No God does not tell lies

[meerkat]

Nick,

Yes, I experience his saving grace every day ……….. God will have mercy on whom he will ……… which is all

I also see scriptures that say that Jesus came to save the perished

That is why the {gospel} was preached to the dead they are judged as men in the flesh, however after judgement comes life.

[NickHassan]

Hi MK,
So if you stitch all those together that is as good as Jesus saying faith and rebirth are no longer necessary and all will be saved?

[GeneBalthrop]

Nick….what do you do with this, Paul said He delievered a person over to Satan for the destruction of his body “that His Spirit will be saved” how does that fit into you death for some theology. God is the savior of (ALL)men specially those of the household God. Your theology sales GOD the Father Short, if He can't save anyone he wants to then, you wont be saved either. Because if you say you still have no sin you will be lying. But you of make exceptions for yourself right? You fear religion doesn't show Faith but the lack of it, or you wouldn't be so full of fear. IMO

peace………………..gene

[meerkat]

Rebirth is necessary ………. all that are born spiritually is it their choice to be born or is it at the will of “the potter”?

[NickHassan]

Hi MK,
It is about standards of proof required by those who call Jesus Lord.

What you have presented is a series of possible inferences taken out of context that would never stand up in court of law.

None showed Jesus teaching this strange new idea and he is our Lord and the one to whom we have to account for our teaching.

To be frank I think the trinity idea has about as much validity.

But men have died in defence of false teachings before today though it is wiser to hear Jesus words.

[GeneBalthrop]

Nick……….where is it written it's about (STANDARDS) of Proof Required by those calling Jesus Lord. Jesus said these signs would follow His servants, are those signs in you life if not I would be telling other what the standards are if i were you. What proof are you talking about, Jesus said Many would come unto his and say Lord Lord another you are the master and we (DID) all these works and He would profess to them depart from me (YOU WORKER) of INIQUITY,i know you not. They were trying to (WORK) their way into the kingdom using all kinds of way and that includes (FEAR) tactics also. Having people trust in themselves to make it in walking by FEAR rather then BY FAITH.Tell me this does God who works Miracles among you do it by works of Law (forced compliance) working through the medium of (FEAR) or by hearing of your FAITH>

peace………..gene

[NickHassan]

GB,
Are miracles the final proof of salvation?
We are warned about false ones that deceive in scripture.

[GeneBalthrop]

Nick……….what about (REAL) one that don't deceive? Why all the drought and unbelief Nick? Do you think God doesn't do Miracles anymore. I believe Miracles are a real proof and it looked like Paul and Jesus and the Apostles did to.

peace…………gene

[Tiffany]

nick wrote:

GB,
Are miracles the final proof of salvation?
We are warned about false ones that deceive in scripture.[/quote

I have to get in here, I had no idea that you do not believe in grace by Faith in Christ Jesus?
Ephesians 2:8-10

I don't know what you believe, you have confused me.

Peace and Love Irene

[Author]

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