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Hi MK,
How many goats are there after mankind given every chance?
Who knows.Even the great tribulation will provide many to be saved.
Rev7
9After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;10And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
11And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
12Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
13And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 19 2008,09:09) Quote (meerkat @ Dec. 19 2008,08:54) Jodi, Nick and Georg believe the scriptures that say a remnant will be saved ……. and to them that is only a remnant of all people will be saved, that is 20% people saved 80% damned to everlasting death or everlasting torment
Whereas I believe what is being meant is that a remnant of each person will be saved, that is body, soul which is us the carnal us, is to be destroyed, however spirit is to be saved by fire (not literal fire) related to baptism with spirit and fire and it is being done in ages not just in an individuals lifetime.
If you are interested meet me at the remnant saved thread.
Hi Georg,
Few will choose the path of Jesus into the Millennial kingdom.But who can dare to restrict the mercy of God to have him condemn 80% of mankind in the judgement after the second resurrection?
God is love.
Hi Nick and anyone else who may be interested:Sometime, early, after my conversion experience, I was contending with God, because from the scriptures it appeared to me that very few would be saved.
Jesus spoke to me an audible voice, saying, “I gave my life for my people, what will you give me for yours?”
In other words he was saying what more do you want me to do? This is a “free gift” to all who want to be saved. Also, he was saying to me, what will you give my for yours, the wicked?
Quote Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14 Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 19 2008,11:38) Hi 94,
We should not rely too heavily on inferences drawn from personal experiences.
Hi Nick:I don't see why not if it lines up with the Word of God. Is there anything that I have said by virture of this personal experience that is not true?
Hi 94,
You have given us your interpretation of it.
Can you be sure that is what was meant?Yes I was baptised in the Spirit 25 years ago.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 19 2008,12:10) Hi 94,
You have given us your interpretation of it.
Can you be sure that is what was meant?Yes I was baptised in the Spirit 25 years ago.
Hi Nick:Is there anything in my interpretation of it that is not true?
Can you draw any inferences from your personal experiences with God.
I percieve that the problem may be that you and others may not believe what I am saying to you, but no matter, it is still the truth.
God Bless
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 19 2008,12:28) Hi 94,
Who knows?
I believe what you heard is true.
Hi Nick:What more can be expected of the Lord, he gave us every thing that he had.
Quote Isa 53:3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were [our] faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Isa 53:4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
Isa 53:5 But he [was] wounded for our transgressions, [he was] bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace [was] upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
Isa 53:7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
Isa 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
Isa 53:9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither [was any] deceit in his mouth.
Isa 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put [him] to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see [his] seed, he shall prolong [his] days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
Isa 53:11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, [and] shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
Isa 53:12 Therefore will I divide him [a portion] with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors
Why should anyone contend with God if there are those who do not want to be saved. This is an offer that any one with any sense cannot refuse.
No one has to be destroyed. God has made the provision for us to be saved. It is a choice. I am also giving my life to follow him, but I cannot do anything but set an example through the life that I live in obedience to him. I cannot obey God for anyone but myself.
And so, yes not only did I hear the truth from him, but my interpretation of what he said is also true.
As for the rest of my testimony, the bishoprik will surely come to pass. There is no doubt.
942767.
Isaiah 46: Saying (GOD), All My counsel shall be confirmed,
And all My desire will I do.
Indeed, I speak! Indeed, I will bring it about!
I formed. Indeed, I will do it.
You say He can't?1Tim.2:3-4. 3 for this is ideal and welcome in the sight of our Saviour, God,
4 Who wills that all mankind be saved and come into a realization of the truth.
Is Gods' will ineffective?1Tim.4:9-11. 9 Faithful is the saying and worthy of all welcome
10 (for for this are we toiling and being reproached), that we rely on the living God, Who is the Saviour of all mankind,
This scripture to be ignored?2Cor.5:18-19. 18 Yet all is of God, Who conciliates us to Himself through Christ, and is giving us the dispensation of the conciliation,
19 how that God was in Christ, conciliating the world to Himself, not reckoning their offenses to them, and placing in us the word of the conciliation.
He conciliates the WORLD to Himself? Not reckoning our sin to us?Phil.2:12-13. 12 So that, my beloved, according as you always obey, not as in my presence only, but now much rather in my absence, with fear and trembling, be carrying your own salvation into effect,
13 for it is God Who is operating in you to will as well as to work for the sake of His delight.
God working in us? in accord with HIS DELIGHT?Eph.1:9-11. 9 making known to us the secret of His will (in accord with His delight, which He purposed in Him)
10 to have an administration of the complement of the eras, to head up all in the Christ — both that in the heavens and that on the earth —
11 in Him in Whom our lot was cast also, being designated beforehand according to the purpose of the One Who is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will,
God is operating ALL in accord with the counsel of HIS WILL? Can we resist with our so-called free will?1Cor.15:26-28. 26 The last enemy is being abolished: death.
27 For He subjects all under His feet. Now whenever He may be saying that all is subject, it is evident that it is outside of Him Who subjects all to Him.
28 Now, whenever all may be subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also shall be subjected to Him Who subjects all to Him, that God may be All in all.)
Can “He” be All in all, if only 'some' will be saved?Blessings.
Chosenone……………Amen, Amen, Amen. I totally agree with that post.
Peace and love to you and your ………………………..gene
Gene.
Thank you, much appreciated. We seem to beleive in much the same way, I read your posts and agree with your opinion, expressed in a like manner as I would.God Bless, Jerry.
Quote (chosenone @ Dec. 19 2008,13:39) 942767.
Isaiah 46: Saying (GOD), All My counsel shall be confirmed,
And all My desire will I do.
Indeed, I speak! Indeed, I will bring it about!
I formed. Indeed, I will do it.
You say He can't?1Tim.2:3-4. 3 for this is ideal and welcome in the sight of our Saviour, God,
4 Who wills that all mankind be saved and come into a realization of the truth.
Is Gods' will ineffective?1Tim.4:9-11. 9 Faithful is the saying and worthy of all welcome
10 (for for this are we toiling and being reproached), that we rely on the living God, Who is the Saviour of all mankind,
This scripture to be ignored?2Cor.5:18-19. 18 Yet all is of God, Who conciliates us to Himself through Christ, and is giving us the dispensation of the conciliation,
19 how that God was in Christ, conciliating the world to Himself, not reckoning their offenses to them, and placing in us the word of the conciliation.
He conciliates the WORLD to Himself? Not reckoning our sin to us?Phil.2:12-13. 12 So that, my beloved, according as you always obey, not as in my presence only, but now much rather in my absence, with fear and trembling, be carrying your own salvation into effect,
13 for it is God Who is operating in you to will as well as to work for the sake of His delight.
God working in us? in accord with HIS DELIGHT?Eph.1:9-11. 9 making known to us the secret of His will (in accord with His delight, which He purposed in Him)
10 to have an administration of the complement of the eras, to head up all in the Christ — both that in the heavens and that on the earth —
11 in Him in Whom our lot was cast also, being designated beforehand according to the purpose of the One Who is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will,
God is operating ALL in accord with the counsel of HIS WILL? Can we resist with our so-called free will?1Cor.15:26-28. 26 The last enemy is being abolished: death.
27 For He subjects all under His feet. Now whenever He may be saying that all is subject, it is evident that it is outside of Him Who subjects all to Him.
28 Now, whenever all may be subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also shall be subjected to Him Who subjects all to Him, that God may be All in all.)
Can “He” be All in all, if only 'some' will be saved?Blessings.
Hi CO:As Christians, God has given us a commission to go into all of their world and preach the gospel to all who will hear, and He will create circumstances that will cause men to make the right decision in many cases, however, man has a will and some, in spite of all that God will do, will not repent.
Quote Rev 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
Rev 9:21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.These did not repent even after God had poured out intense judgements on them. If man does not want to be saved, how is this any reflection of God's abilities to save them. It is their choice, not a very wise choice, but nevertheless, their choice. We are not robots. We have to make decisions every day.
God is indeed the saviour of all mankind in that Jesus has paid the judgment that was against all of humanity. And He is calling all who will come into a relationship with through His Son and His Christ and Our Lord, Jesus. God was in Christ not imputing sin unto to mankind, but forgiving those who believed who came to Him with a repentant heart through His provision in the Lord Jesus. God did not send Jesus into the world to condemn the world, but the world through him might be saved. The condition is that mankind believe His testimony regarding what He has done for us through Jesus .
Quote 1Cr 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, [and] become the firstfruits of them that slept.
1Cr 15:21 For since by man [came] death, by man [came] also the resurrection of the dead.
1Cr 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Cr 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
1Cr 15:24 Then [cometh] the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Cr 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Cr 15:26 The last enemy [that] shall be destroyed [is] death.
1Cr 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under [him, it is] manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Cr 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
God will be all in all of His children. All those who are in Christ. The dead in Christ shall rise first and then those who are alive and in Christ will be transformed and they will meet the Lord in the Air.
Those who are not His at the coming of the Lord for the church will be destroyed either through the seven last plagues or at the great white throne judgement in the second resurrection. They will be no more, and therefore, there will be no more death.
I really would hope that you would be right and that all men would be saved, but I do not believe that the scriptures teach this.
Quote (Kupchuk @ Mar. 03 2007,13:50) God wills all mankind to be saved! 1 Tim. 2:4 …our saviour, God, Who wills that all mankind be saved and come to the realization of the truth.
1 Tim. 4:10 …that we rely on the living God Who is the saviour of all mankind, especially of believers. (Not only believers.)
1 Cor. 15:28 …Who subjects all to Him, that God may be All in all. (At the consummation God will be All in all, not just some)
Universal salvation is perfectly legitimate…Up to an age of accountability but not necessarily beyond it. You won't find any babies or small children in hell as they're all covered by the unsolicited and universal atonement of Christ, but the same cannot always be said for adults. God does “will” for all to repent and come to Christ, so He would have all to be saved as a matter of His revealed will, yet His secret and sovereign will is almost always hidden from our finite inspection, and for good reason. However, since the Lord mercifully wishes for all babies and small children to reside with Christ in eternity in heaven,(I take Matt. 19:14 literally: “But Jesus said, 'Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of heaven.' “)
it was also necessary then that all, (and without exception,) be included in the sacrificial death of Christ, something which both Calvin and Arminius partially understood and misunderstood. It is highly important to understand that the death of Christ was only a sacrifice, which sacrifice made an atonement possible or available. No ancient Jew in Christ's day was ever advantaged by the mere slaughtering of an animal sacrifice, the value of a “covering” for sin, (or atonement as they understood it,) lay in the application of the blood, not in the shedding of it. This can be confusing at times because the scriptures use the words “sacrifice” and “atonement” in an interchangeable sense, yet their root meanings are still different and they are so closely linked with each other because God intends for them both to be a part of one final redemption for fallen man. Now God applies this sacrificial death of Christ to all small ones in an involuntary fashion, (from the child's vantage point,) and thereafter upon their maturity in a solicited way only by their willful acceptance. That's one reason why the damned in hell are both gnashing their teeth and weeping: The gnash their teeth out of literal, actual pain from an actual and literal torment, but they “weep” because they all know that they really could have been saved by applying for Christ's sacrificial atonement since they were if fact covered by His vicarious death while they were still young, and yet as adults “…they would not”. They let it slip right through their negligent hands and that will be just cause for the eternal weeping of regret.
Salvation is indeed universal for all dear, little babies and small children by way of impartation, and universal for the entire balance of humanity both by the expressed, revealed will of God in the free offer of the gospel, and potentially speaking only by Christ's sacrificial death for them as all too were once little babies themselves. Here is where Calvin and Arminius strangely found themselves both in agreement: In the experimental sense of adults, salvation is most definitely particular: If you truy accept of the gospel offer, you are then covered by Christ's death, but if one willfully neglects the gospel offer, they will certainly wish that they had never been born and I hope that no one here ever discovers such a terrible and awful fate.
Hi all
The problem with this whole “eternal torments” phylosophy is the crime does not equal the penalty.
God is a just God and strictly told Adam and Eve if they eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil that they would die.
Nowhere in the Hebrew (OT) scriptures is there even a hint of the wicked heretical doctrine of eternal torment found.
Surely if God's intent was to punish man forever and ever he would have warned him through the prophets.
Eternal torment is a fabrication of the scriptures by the misuse of Hebrew and Greek words that do not mean “forever and ever” in an attempt in the dark ages to create fear and cause men to repent through fear.
Paul confirms the penalty for sin when he says “the wages of sin is death” Rom 3:23, not eternal torment.
Jesus came to save all men and did not fail in his sacrifice. He left the 90 and 9 to save the 1 and that makes 100%.
Imagine a “New Heaven and New earth” where there is a place in some remote part of the universe where your loved one may be in eternal torment that is beyond discription.
Lies.
In the New Heavens and New Earth there will be no more sorrow, sickness “PAIN”, death etc, etc for he will wipe away all tears, for the former things are passed away and behold ALL THINGS are made New!
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 20 2008,12:37) Hi all The problem with this whole “eternal torments” phylosophy is the crime does not equal the penalty.
God is a just God and strictly told Adam and Eve if they eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil that they would die.
Nowhere in the Hebrew (OT) scriptures is there even a hint of the wicked heretical doctrine of eternal torment found.
Surely if God's intent was to punish man forever and ever he would have warned him through the prophets.
Eternal torment is a fabrication of the scriptures by the misuse of Hebrew and Greek words that do not mean “forever and ever” in an attempt in the dark ages to create fear and cause men to repent through fear.
Paul confirms the penalty for sin when he says “the wages of sin is death” Rom 3:23, not eternal torment.
Jesus came to save all men and did not fail in his sacrifice. He left the 90 and 9 to save the 1 and that makes 100%.
Imagine a “New Heaven and New earth” where there is a place in some remote part of the universe where your loved one may be in eternal torment that is beyond discription.
Lies.
In the New Heavens and New Earth there will be no more sorrow, sickness “PAIN”, death etc, etc for he will wipe away all tears, for the former things are passed away and behold ALL THINGS are made New!
WJ
Amen WJ, Amen.Tim
Keith,
Preach it brother, preach it!!
Fear has always been used to get folks in line, whether in politics or religion.
That was a good word, bro! Let's hear some more….
Thank you,
MandyQuote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 19 2008,11:38) Hi 94,
We should not rely too heavily on inferences drawn from personal experiences.
Do you not have a personal relationship with God?If the holy Spirit of God is teaching you….that is a personal experience, is it not?
Do you truly believe that the bible is the only way for God to speak to his creatures? Really? How limited God would be if this is the case. Especially to those who do not own a bible or know what the bible is.
Trust God. He is bigger than you think, bro.
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