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Quote (meerkat @ Dec. 08 2008,07:46) I agree that the wrath of God abides on the unblieving while they are unbelieving however what scripture says is that upon repentance and obedience mercy is shown, it says mercy endures forever – God is calling an elect – the elect will rule with Jesus, and the point of ruling is not to torment for eternity – the mercy that is shown to us is to be shown to all, but each in their own order 1st Christ
2nd those that are his at his coming
3rd The rest to be born of the Spirit
We have no control over our physical birth and we do not spiritually birth ourselves – it is the Spirit
Hi MK,
THE REST to be born of the Spirit?1Cor15
21For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
Those who are Christ's are not the heathen rebels.
Hi MK,
Luke 19:27
But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 08 2008,07:56) Quote (meerkat @ Dec. 08 2008,07:46) I agree that the wrath of God abides on the unblieving while they are unbelieving however what scripture says is that upon repentance and obedience mercy is shown, it says mercy endures forever – God is calling an elect – the elect will rule with Jesus, and the point of ruling is not to torment for eternity – the mercy that is shown to us is to be shown to all, but each in their own order 1st Christ
2nd those that are his at his coming
3rd The rest to be born of the Spirit
We have no control over our physical birth and we do not spiritually birth ourselves – it is the Spirit
Hi MK,
THE REST to be born of the Spirit?1Cor15
21For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
Those who are Christ's are not the heathen rebels.
NickRead the rest of that passage – don't cut it out of its context
Just as Christ is subject to the Father – the rest will be subject to Christ – bowing their knees.
1Cr 15:21For since by man [came] death, by man [came] also the resurrection of the dead.
1Cr 15:22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Cr 15:23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
1Cr 15:24Then [cometh] the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Cr 15:25For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Cr 15:26The last enemy [that] shall be destroyed [is] death.
1Cr 15:27For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under [him, it is] manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Cr 15:28And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.Also Nick
All in Adam die – all in christ
The judgement is not about some individuals being with God and others not being with God it is about Jesus being resurrected by the Spirit being the first born of the dead – the reason the gospel was preached to the dead is that they are judged as men in the flesh and are raised by the spirit. The Spirit is about life (spiritual life)
The remnant that is saved is conceived of the Spirit of God – 1st is the natural then the spiritual.
It is more what will remain after judgement – nothing of the flesh will remain – flesh does not inherit the kingdom of God
Hi MK,
All men are raised.
All men are not raised to eternal life.Judgement comes except to those in Christ who have already passed from death to life.
Scripture does not say Christ preached to all the dead but those from the time of Noah[1Peter3]
The gospel that Jesus preached is his actual death and his actual resurrection from the dead by the Spirit of God – when he died he was dead, not a spirit wandering around talking to other disembodied spirits of Noahs generation about how they had been selected/elected to receive mercy above all others who had died both before and after Jesus death and had not heard the gospel.
Noah and the disobedient are the figure of what Jesus accomplished – death of the flesh – resurrection/born of the Spirit
Hi MK,
Really?
Not all would agree with your view of 1 Peter 3.
Abraham and those other great men of God saw as they too are alive in God.Hi MK,
Ask Jesus.
Mt2231″But regarding the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God:
32'I AM THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, AND THE GOD OF ISAAC, AND THE GOD OF JACOB'? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.”
33When the crowds heard this, they were astonished at His teaching.
Mk12
26And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?27He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.
Luke 20:38
” Now He is not the God of the dead but of the living; for all live to Him.”John 8:56
” Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”ps
1Peter1
10Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:11Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
Yes God is the God of the living – Jesus is the firstfruits, the firstborn of the dead – Was Abraham raised before the firstfruits?
Hebrews 11:13-40
Hbr 11:13These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of [them], and embraced [them], and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
Hbr 11:14For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.
Hbr 11:15And truly, if they had been mindful of that [country] from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
Hbr 11:16But now they desire a better [country], that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
Hbr 11:17By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten [son],
Hbr 11:18Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:
Hbr 11:19Accounting that God [was] able to raise [him] up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.
………..
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Hbr 11:39And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:Hbr 11:40God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
It seems they did not receive what was promised – Christ is the firstfruits – Abraham is not raised before Christ – Abraham was anticipating Jesus day, Abraham looks to Christ
Hi MK,
God is faithful.
The gifts He gives are without repentance-including His abiding Spirit of life.Nick…….indeed and if God gives His Spirit to a person He (DOESN'T take it BACK) it is given without revocation. At least you have that right.
love and peace………..gene
I agree ….. his is faithful ……
Abraham received a promise ……….. God will deliver on that promise ….. however it is in Gods time and he raised Jesus 1st (hence firstfruits.
Romans 5:15 But not as the offence, so also [is] the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, [which is] by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
Rom 5:16And not as [it was] by one that sinned, [so is] the gift: for the judgment [was] by one to condemnation, but the free gift [is] of many offences unto justification.
G4183
πολύς, πολλός
polus polos
pol-oos'
Including the forms from the alternate “pollos”; (singular) much (in any respect) or (plural) many; neuter (singular) as adverb largely; neuter (plural) as adverb or noun often, mostly, largely: – abundant, + altogether, common, + far (passed, spent), (+ be of a) great (age, deal, -ly, while), long, many, much, oft (-en [-times]), plenteous, sore, straitly. Compare G4118, G4119.Rom 5:18Therefore as by the offence of one [judgment came] upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one [the free gift came] upon all men unto justification of life.
Rom 5:19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
The same many that were sinners (all of us are sinners) through one mans disobedience that same many will be made righteous – now (saved from wrath) or in the end after receiving wrath for ungodly deeds commited reaping what has been sown.
Hi MK,
Grace and peace came through Jesus Christ-to those who received him.
But God had already shared of His eternal Spirit of lifeAll one now in Christ and in Him.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 08 2008,04:52) Nick …..again you just ignore posted scripture and go on committing as if they don't even exist and by the way Romans was written after Jesus made that statement. True repentance itself is a work of GOD (Not a Self ACT) of Man, “for we are sorrowed unto righteousness” and again (GODLY) Sorrow (WORKS) REPENTANCE (NOT) to be REPENTED OF> this plainly shows repentance is given of GOD. You infuses on Repentance by HUMAN WILL OR CHOICE is (NOT) Scriptural. GOD GIVES REPENTANCE, and those He HARDENS will NOT REPENT no matter how hard they try or How much fear you pump into them , EX 19:20….> even the fear of God could not make them repent. True Repentance can only be accomplished in a person BY GOD the FATHER ALONE> The person has nothing to do with it , it is a work of GOD, that saves us, not a work of fear as you teach. Why do you continue to push God out of the Salvation process, Jesus sure didn't do that. Listen closer to (ALL) the words of Jesus and you could understand this.
peace………..gene
Amen to that post my brother Gene.Adam………Was beginning to wonder where you were, good to see your post, God has given you very good incite please continue to use it brother, to whom soever (has) more shall be given. I knew clearly when you first posted GOD was With you Brother, Don't get discouraged we are engaged in Spiritual warfare and it will be that way until our brother the Lord Jesus comes. If we have put our hands to the plow we must continue to plow Brother and not look back. Also iron sharpens iron, these things are preparing us for the future when we will be together in the Kingdom. We need to press forward for the Mark of the HIGH CALLING. Hope you and your Family are all well brother.
Love and peace to you and your Adam…………………gene
Quote (gollamudi @ Dec. 08 2008,16:55) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 08 2008,04:52) Nick …..again you just ignore posted scripture and go on committing as if they don't even exist and by the way Romans was written after Jesus made that statement. True repentance itself is a work of GOD (Not a Self ACT) of Man, “for we are sorrowed unto righteousness” and again (GODLY) Sorrow (WORKS) REPENTANCE (NOT) to be REPENTED OF> this plainly shows repentance is given of GOD. You infuses on Repentance by HUMAN WILL OR CHOICE is (NOT) Scriptural. GOD GIVES REPENTANCE, and those He HARDENS will NOT REPENT no matter how hard they try or How much fear you pump into them , EX 19:20….> even the fear of God could not make them repent. True Repentance can only be accomplished in a person BY GOD the FATHER ALONE> The person has nothing to do with it , it is a work of GOD, that saves us, not a work of fear as you teach. Why do you continue to push God out of the Salvation process, Jesus sure didn't do that. Listen closer to (ALL) the words of Jesus and you could understand this.
peace………..gene
Amen to that post my brother Gene.
Hi GM,
Repentance leads to obedient actions.
Acts 226And it came to pass, that, as I made my journey, and was come nigh unto Damascus about noon, suddenly there shone from heaven a great light round about me.
7And I fell unto the ground, and heard a voice saying unto me, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
8And I answered, Who art thou, Lord? And he said unto me, I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom thou persecutest.
9And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.
10And I said, What shall I do, LORD? And the Lord said unto me, Arise, and go into Damascus; and there it shall be told thee of all things which are appointed for thee to do.
11And when I could not see for the glory of that light, being led by the hand of them that were with me, I came into Damascus.
12And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there,
13Came unto me, and stood, and said unto me, Brother Saul, receive thy sight. And the same hour I looked up upon him.
14And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.
15For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.
16And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
Quote (meerkat @ Dec. 08 2008,11:24) I agree ….. his is faithful …… Abraham received a promise ……….. God will deliver on that promise ….. however it is in Gods time and he raised Jesus 1st (hence firstfruits.
Romans 5:15 But not as the offence, so also [is] the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, [which is] by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
Rom 5:16And not as [it was] by one that sinned, [so is] the gift: for the judgment [was] by one to condemnation, but the free gift [is] of many offences unto justification.
G4183
πολύς, πολλός
polus polos
pol-oos'
Including the forms from the alternate “pollos”; (singular) much (in any respect) or (plural) many; neuter (singular) as adverb largely; neuter (plural) as adverb or noun often, mostly, largely: – abundant, + altogether, common, + far (passed, spent), (+ be of a) great (age, deal, -ly, while), long, many, much, oft (-en [-times]), plenteous, sore, straitly. Compare G4118, G4119.Rom 5:18Therefore as by the offence of one [judgment came] upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one [the free gift came] upon all men unto justification of life.
Rom 5:19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
The same many that were sinners (all of us are sinners) through one mans disobedience that same many will be made righteous – now (saved from wrath) or in the end after receiving wrath for ungodly deeds commited reaping what has been sown.
meerkat……….Amen to that post, SisGod Plan is to save (ALL) through His firey judgements and Forgiveness given to us, by the death of Jesus for our sins. Jesus was GOD'S Lamb prepared for His sacrifice for the sins of the whole world, Which God the Father himself offered up. We have a lot more going for us then I think people understand.
love and peace to you and yours…………….gene
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