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To All……..Fix Reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with BOLDNESS even the existence of A GOD ; because if there be one, He must more approve of the homage of REASON, than that of BLINDFOLD FEAR.
Something to think about, it was written by the Father of our Declaration of Independence , Thomas Jefferson
Love and peace…………gene
Nick…..How does that put my cards on the table, your losing it man!. Thats not my quote it's Thomas Jefferson's. However God would (MORE APPROVE) of Homage OF REASON which is what you preach. Nick in your rush to discredit me you miss read what it says and who said it. Try to read it again. Only this time think about It NICK.
GB,
So far you seem to have given more respect to the teachings of a scientist and an american president than the teachings of Jesus. Why is this?The teachings of Jesus were for “the lost sheep of the house of Israel” (matt.15:24). Why is it that you do not heed Jesus words?
Hi CO,
Is this written?Mt15
24But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.Nothing there about his teachings just being for Israel is there?
Perhaps I missed it.
That same gospel was later taken to the gentiles
Hi Gene and CO:
If all will be saved, how do you explain the following scripture:
Quote 2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.Hi 942767.
The correct translation for these verses is:7 and to you who are being afflicted, ease, with us, at the unveiling of the Lord Jesus from heaven with His powerful messengers,
8 in flaming fire, dealing out vengeance to those who are not acquainted with God and those who are not obeying the evangel of our Lord Jesus Christ —
9 who shall incur the justice of eonian extermination from the face of the Lord, and from the glory of His strength —
10 whenever He may be coming to be glorified in His saints and to be marveled at in all who believe (seeing that our testimony to you was believed) in that day.A common mistranslation of the greek word “aion”, should be translated to the english word as “eon”. Which is a of a specific time duration, never meaning “endless” or “everlasting”. A closer, but not accurate, word to use would be “age”.
Yes, God will punish, but never “for ever”.
Blessings.
942767….. Jude 1:14…> “and Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying , Behole, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints to execute judgement upon (ALL) and to CONVINCE (ALL) that are ungodly among them of all thier ungodly deeds which they have ungodly commited, and of all their (HARD) speeches which ingodly sinners have spokien against Him.”
I don;t see any blow torches here do you?, the Flaming Fire mentioned is GOD'S Judgments, which Jesus and the Saints will administer in the earth. You have to understand (FIRE) is symbolic for Judgments, not a literal Fire. “For he that comes after me shall baptize with Spirit and (FIRE)”. and again, “Now concerning this (FIERY TRIAL) which has tried you”. Cant you see FIRE IS SYMBOLIC, not literal.
love to you and yours………….gene
Quote (chosenone @ Sep. 29 2008,06:59) Hi 942767.
The correct translation for these verses is:7 and to you who are being afflicted, ease, with us, at the unveiling of the Lord Jesus from heaven with His powerful messengers,
8 in flaming fire, dealing out vengeance to those who are not acquainted with God and those who are not obeying the evangel of our Lord Jesus Christ —
9 who shall incur the justice of eonian extermination from the face of the Lord, and from the glory of His strength —
10 whenever He may be coming to be glorified in His saints and to be marveled at in all who believe (seeing that our testimony to you was believed) in that day.A common mistranslation of the greek word “aion”, should be translated to the english word as “eon”. Which is a of a specific time duration, never meaning “endless” or “everlasting”. A closer, but not accurate, word to use would be “age”.
Yes, God will punish, but never “for ever”.
Blessings.
Hi CO:I don't believe that God will punish someone for ever(that was not my point), but I do believe that the wicked will be destroyed forever. They will be destroyed completely. Their punishment will be according to their works.
Quote Mal 4:1 ¶ For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
Mal 4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
Mal 4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do [this], saith the LORD of hostsQuote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 29 2008,07:02) 942767….. Jude 1:14…> “and Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying , Behole, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints to execute judgement upon (ALL) and to CONVINCE (ALL) that are ungodly among them of all thier ungodly deeds which they have ungodly commited, and of all their (HARD) speeches which ingodly sinners have spokien against Him.” I don;t see any blow torches here do you?, the Flaming Fire mentioned is GOD'S Judgments, which Jesus and the Saints will administer in the earth. You have to understand (FIRE) is symbolic for Judgments, not a literal Fire. “For he that comes after me shall baptize with Spirit and (FIRE)”. and again, “Now concerning this (FIERY TRIAL) which has tried you”. Cant you see FIRE IS SYMBOLIC, not literal.
love to you and yours………….gene
Hi Gene:What about these verses of scripture?
Quote 2Pe 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned [them] with an overthrow, making [them] an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
Jud 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.Hi Gene:
And what about the following verses?
Quote 2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
2Pe 3:10 ¶ But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 [Seeing] then [that] all these things shall be dissolved, what manner [of persons] ought ye to be in [all] holy conversation and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?942767…..Sodom and Gomorrah were examples of judgments and indeed the cities as well as the people were destroyed by real fire. But do you think that they were eternally destroyed eternally. Then how could they be resurrected and Judged in the second resurrection then. All have sinned and come short of the glory of GOD.
Mat 10:15 …> Verily I say unto you, it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gamorrah in the day of Judgment then for that city. Mat 11:23…> And thou Capernaum which art exalted unto heaven shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.And while there is real fire taught in scripture it always is tied with materialist things, if expressed literially, but if expressed spiritually it has to do with judgments, as i have posted. “now concerning the (FIERY TRIAL) which has tried you as if some strange thing has happened unto you”. do you think that means a Literal FIRE> You have to understand when something is spiritual or Physical, Literal or Symbolic. IMO
peace…………….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 29 2008,10:29) 942767…..Sodom and Gomorrah were examples of judgments and indeed the cities as well as the people were destroyed by real fire. But do you think that they were eternally destroyed eternally. Then how could they be resurrected and Judged in the second resurrection then. All have sinned and come short of the glory of GOD.
Mat 10:15 …> Verily I say unto you, it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gamorrah in the day of Judgment then for that city. Mat 11:23…> And thou Capernaum which art exalted unto heaven shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.And while there is real fire taught in scripture it always is tied with materialist things, if expressed literially, but if expressed spiritually it has to do with judgments, as i have posted. “now concerning the (FIERY TRIAL) which has tried you as if some strange thing has happened unto you”. do you think that means a Literal FIRE> You have to understand when something is spiritual or Physical, Literal or Symbolic. IMO
peace…………….gene
Hi Gene:Pasting the verse in Jude relative to Sodom and Gohommorah again:
Quote
2Pe 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned [them] with an overthrow, making [them] an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
Jud 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.Verse 1:7 states that these suffered the vengeance of eternal fire. They have already been judged. They will not be resurrected to incur further judgment.
Jesus in the verse you quote from Matthew states:
Quote Mat 10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
Mat 10:15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.The “land of Sodom and Gomorra” in this scripture symbolically refers to the ungodly. Jesus states that the judgment will be less severe for these than for someone who heard the gospel and rejected it.
Maybe the following scripture will help you to understand this:
Quote Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies [shall lie] in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. I agree that fire is not always literal fire. We can discuss this in another thread if you like, but here the issue is whether or not all will be saved, and based on these scriptures the answer that I have to conclude is that unfortunately, no.
God Bless
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 29 2008,07:46) GB,
So the JUDGEMENT of God is removed from your bible?
Nick.
Same as you removed Matt.15:24 from yours?Hi CO,
Mt 1524But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
I love this verse.
God sent him to his chosen people.
Those beautiful words continue to bless men all over the world.942767…..So all the little children in Sodom are burned up for ever and then When Jesus said it would be more tolerable for Sodom in the day of Judgment he did not really mean it then right. So if God had blinded the minds of Israel and they sinned till they died they will be thrown into a literal lake of fire right, and every man, even though he did not even know Jesus or have Gods Spirit but did evil will be thrown into the literal lake of fire and be burned up screaming out into all eternity for mercy from the pain and agony they are suffering from the lake of fire burning them right. Is this your and Nicks religion and actually believe it's the preaching of Jesus Christ? Because in you thinking you don't believe God can “take out the heart of stone and give a person a heart of flesh (soft heart) and the GRACE of GOd means nothing Right, It's just up to you or you get burned up correct is the you religion also like Nicks.
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