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Chosenone ….. I agree that God will ultimately save all His creation. By His power to be in all things. And salvation is not a matter of Mans so called (free will) it”s a matter of God's WILL. I think the biggest problem is that Man does not see the the absolute Sovereignty of God and there in lies the Problem. Man wants to think his salvation if up to Himself by His own choices.
good post……….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 15 2008,13:05) Chosenone ….. I agree that God will ultimately save all His creation. By His power to be in all things. And salvation is not a matter of Mans so called (free will) it”s a matter of God's WILL. I think the biggest problem is that Man does not see the the absolute Sovereignty of God and there in lies the Problem. Man wants to think his salvation if up to Himself by His own choices. good post……….gene
Hi GB,
I wondered if your reliance on opinion would DRAG you to such conclusions.Hi,
This is an unusual false doctrine that claims all are saved by the work of Christ.
It attracts little interest except by it's exceptional peculiarity.
Another heresy for the museum.Hi Nick.
False doctrine? Heresy? No! Just scripture. (1Cor.15:22-28)22 For even as, in Adam, all are dying, thus also, in Christ, shall all be vivified.
23 Yet each in his own class: the Firstfruit, Christ; thereupon those who are Christ's in His presence;
24 thereafter the consummation, whenever He may be giving up the kingdom to His God and Father, whenever He should be nullifying all sovereignty and all authority and power.
25 For He must be reigning until He should be placing all His enemies under His feet.
26 The last enemy is being abolished: death.
27 For He subjects all under His feet. Now whenever He may be saying that all is subject, it is evident that it is outside of Him Who subjects all to Him.
28 Now, whenever all may be subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also shall be subjected to Him Who subjects all to Him, that God may be All in all.)Blessings.
Hi CO,
Speaking of context to whom was Paul directing this message?
Do you think he related it to all men who had ever been born or just the saints?Quote (chosenone @ June 17 2008,14:08) Hi Nick.
False doctrine? Heresy? No! Just scripture. (1Cor.15:22-28)22 For even as, in Adam, all are dying, thus also, in Christ, shall all be vivified.
23 Yet each in his own class: the Firstfruit, Christ; thereupon those who are Christ's in His presence;
24 thereafter the consummation, whenever He may be giving up the kingdom to His God and Father, whenever He should be nullifying all sovereignty and all authority and power.
25 For He must be reigning until He should be placing all His enemies under His feet.
26 The last enemy is being abolished: death.
27 For He subjects all under His feet. Now whenever He may be saying that all is subject, it is evident that it is outside of Him Who subjects all to Him.
28 Now, whenever all may be subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also shall be subjected to Him Who subjects all to Him, that God may be All in all.)Blessings.
Hi Jerry,
No problem in this post. There is no heresy in that.Hi GM,
From wikipedia.
“Universalism is a religion and theology that generally holds all persons and creatures are related to God or the divine and will be reconciled to God. A church that calls itself Universalist may emphasize the universal principles of most religions and accept other religions in an inclusive manner, believing in a universal reconciliation between humanity and the divine. Other religions may have Universalist theology as one of their tenets and principles, including Christianity, Hinduism, and some of the New Age religions. Universalist beliefs exist within many faiths, and many Universalists practice in a variety of traditions, drawing upon the same universal principles.The most common principle drawn upon is love. (Sai Baba/Baba Speech): “The spirit present in all of the beings is varily seen as that of mind. They are all full of the essential love. Without love, it is all just a pun, without love you can not be happy !”
Truth is also an important principle to be drawn upon. The living truth is more far-reaching than national, cultural, even faith boundaries.”
Do you think we should accept a doctrine that denies the need for individuals to respond to God's offer of salvation in Jesus? That believes all has been done for all and we all just sit tight with Adolf and Saddam to enjoy the rewards?
Acts 17
24God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;25Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
26And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
27That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
28For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
30And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
31Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
Hi Nick, wonderful you heard about Sai Baba? He is from our State in India. Yes he and many other spiritual leaders preach such dogma only. They attract people with their smooth words and with gracious faces. All these are common in India they preach universal religion saying “All roads lead to Rome therefore all religions lead to the same God who is the Almighty”
But don't misunderstand our brother Chosenone's interpretation he is nowhere near such false beliefs.
Take care
AdamHi Nick.
In Acts 17, Paul was still preaching “repentance” to the Jews, before he was called to preach “grace”. See Acts 20:24-25, where he has changed to preaching “grace of God” to all and telling the Jews “they will see his face no longer”.24 But of nothing have I a word, nor yet am I making my soul precious to myself, till I should be perfecting my career and the dispensation which I got from the Lord Jesus, to certify the evangel of the grace of God.
25 “And now, lo! I am aware that you all, among whom I passed through heralding the kingdom, shall be seeing my face no longer.This corresponds closely with the change which his ministry was undergoing. The kingdom and physical blessings were fast receding and spiritual gratuities were taking their place. Henceforth Paul's physical environment is expressive of the truth which he ministers.
And now see verse 32.
32 And now I am committing you to God and to the word of His grace, which is able to edify and give the enjoyment of an allotment among all who have been hallowed.
“God and the word of His grace” means much more to us than it possibly could have meant to the Ephesian elders at Miletus.
The richest storehouse of His grace had not yet been opened. The epistle to the Ephesians had not yet been penned. Yet Paul doubtless referred to these later unfoldings and committed them to that further revelation which it was not yet lawful for him to utter (2Co.12:4). God and the word of His grace are our only, yet sufficient, recourse in the present apostasy.You need to read all of Pauls epistles, and his change of preaching that the Jews were to enter the “kingdom” through repentance and “works”, which they could not, and did not do. We are now under “Grace”, not the “law” that was given to the Jews.
Blessings.
Hi CO,
So in context it seems the audience was rather more greek than Jewish.All men must repent not just Jews.
acts 17
17Therefore disputed he in the synagogue with the Jews, and with the devout persons, and in the market daily with them that met with him.18Then certain philosophers of the Epicureans, and of the Stoicks, encountered him. And some said, What will this babbler say? other some, He seemeth to be a setter forth of strange gods: because he preached unto them Jesus, and the resurrection.
19And they took him, and brought him unto Areopagus, saying, May we know what this new doctrine, whereof thou speakest, is?
20For thou bringest certain strange things to our ears: we would know therefore what these things mean.
21(For all the Athenians and strangers which were there spent their time in nothing else, but either to tell, or to hear some new thing.)
22Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious.
23For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.
24God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
25Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
26And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
27That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
28For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
30And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
31Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
32And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked: and others said, We will hear thee again of this matter.
33So Paul departed from among them.
34Howbeit certain men clave unto him, and believed: among the which was Dionysius the Areopagite, and a woman named Damaris, and others with them.
Hi CO,
Are ALL men under grace?
Grace comes THROUGH Jesus Christ.
Most men do not know him and are not known by him.Hi Nick.
You obviously have not read what was posted about Pauls change from 'Repentance' to 'Grace'. you just repeated yourself with
Acts 17. Pauls epistles are for us in this era, Jesus' for the Jews in “that” era. You just don't believe scripture, do You?Blessings.
Nick, All scripture is FOR us, but not all scripture is ABOUT us. I believe what Jesus said in Matt. 15:24. It seems you are the one who doesn't believe His words.
Blessings.
Hi CO,
So you decide by the audience that he spoke to and those words are not everlasting truth?
Paul spoke to the gentiles in Athens so those words are for your ears.Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 18 2008,16:44) Hi CO,
So you decide by the audience that he spoke to and those words are not everlasting truth?
Paul spoke to the gentiles in Athens so those words are for your ears.
Hi Nick. You say “I decided by the audience”? Where did you see that in any of my posts? Again you accuse me of something I never said. Please stick to the facts, you shouldn't have to make up things I supposedly said. Do not bear false witness.Blessings.
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