- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 19 2014,20:27) Hi MB,
Who is the LORD and the LORD OF HOSTS in the oT?
A bad translation of “YHWH”. But those terms refer to the Most High God, Jehovah.He saw the glory of Jehovah, the throne, the seraphim, etc.
Why are you still talking about Is 6?
John quoted 6 for the people who were hearing Jesus, but not understanding.
And John was talking about 53 when he said Isaiah had spoken about Jesus, and saw his glory.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 20 2014,08:24) Hi MB,
Good. They should not have ADDED Jesus to jn 12
NickThey did not add they make it more clear HE = Jesus
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 19 2014,21:10) So MB,
The glory quoted by Jn 12 as being seen was that of the Lord of Hosts?
No. The future glory of Jesus.Nick, did Isaiah ever speak about Jesus? (Is 53)
Was Isaiah given a vision of the glory Jesus would have? (Is 9:6, 53:1, 10, 11, 12)
The answer to both is “YES”. Therefore, like John said, Isaiah “spoke about him” and “saw his glory”.
Come on Nick. The passage in John 12 is NOT about people failing to believe in “God”, or in “the Holy Spirit”. It is about them failing to believe in “JESUS”.
So why would John abruptly start speaking about Isaiah seeing “GOD'S” glory, when the entire passage is about scripture being fulfilled due to them not believing in JESUS?
Hi MB,
Here is Is 53
53 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed?2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.
11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
Not a lot of glory seen here is there?
Certainly the WORDS do not appear as they do in Is 6Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 21 2014,08:42) Hi MB,
Which exact words are from Is 53?
Nickcan you not understand those scriptures
then the spirit of Christ is not in you ;because it is so obvious that a child could understand it ,by knowing only the gospels ,Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 20 2014,20:56) Hi MB,
Which exact words are from Is 53?Here is Is 53……..
53 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed?
John 12:38
This was to fulfill the word of Isaiah the prophet:“Lord, who has believed our message, and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?”
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 20 2014,20:56) 10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand. 11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
Not a lot of glory seen here is there?
Certainly the WORDS do not appear as they do in Is 6
Even without verses 10-12, which definitely speak of the great glory this sacrificial lamb will eventually have, verse 1, where Jesus is “the arm of Jehovah”, is glory enough for John to say what he did.No scriptural link?
Isaiah 53:1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed?
John 12:38
This was to fulfill the word of Isaiah the prophet:“Lord, who has believed our message, and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?”
Are you able to see that John quoted words from Isaiah 53:1?
No, but Isaiah was given foreknowledge of the eventual glorious state of the Messiah. In that sense, Isaiah not only spoke about Jesus, but was also shown the glory he would have.
And that means John could honestly say that Isaiah “saw his glory, and spoke about him”.
Hi MB,
Hmmm.
So contrary to scripture Isaiah did not see any glory but was imaging it in the future?Or so you imagine
Seems weak to meQuote So contrary to scripture Isaiah did not see any glory but was imaging it in the future?
Did John see the future glory of the Word of God riding the white horse?Likewise, Isaiah saw the future glory of the Messiah who was the arm of Jehovah (a glorious position in and of itself), and who would prosper, prolong his life, justify many, and receive a portion among the great.
Read Isaiah 45:1-13, Nick. You can see from that passage that Isaiah also spoke about Cyrus, and saw his glory. (Coincidentally, Cyrus was also called “the arm of Jehovah”.)
Face it, your idea that Isaiah saw and spoke about the glory of “the Holy Spirit” will never fit the context of John 12 – which was scriptures being fulfilled because the people refused to believe in JESUS CHRIST.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
