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“False Dilemma
Definition:
A limited number of options (usually two) is given, while in reality there are more options. A false dilemma is an illegitimate use of the “or” operator.
Putting issues or opinions into “black or white” terms is a common instance of this fallacy.
Examples:
1. Either you're for me or against me.
2. America: love it or leave it.
3. Either support Meech Lake or Quebec will separate.
4. Every person is either wholly good or wholly evil.Proof:
Identify the options given and show (with an example) that there is an additional option.
References
Cedarblom and Paulsen: 136″ (http://www.onegoodmove.org/fallacy/fd.htm)
The title of this section of the Forum is a bit misleading and violates this informal rule in logic, it is not necessarily the case that Tradition is specifically contrary to Scripture. Of course tradition CAN be contrary to Scripture…. BUT…. it does not NECESSARILY HAVE TO BE…… and that's what the title of this section of the forum certainly implies, that Scripture and Tradition are necessarily mutually exclusive of one another, and plainly, simply, this is not the case.
This false dichotomy is also, I believe, an example of the version of the ad hominem argument, Poisoning the Well http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_the_well. This is because the way the section of the Forum puts it, as if something is EITHER Scripture or Tradition, that if it is Tradition, it can't be Scriptural. This is Poisoning the Well, making people … a priori…. think that if something is “Tradition” it can't be Scriptural as well.
Just thought it was important to point this out.
blessings,
KenHi E,
Matthew 12:30
He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.Jesus did not teach trinity.
Should we?Irrelevant N. For the purposes of this thread, it matters not one whit whether you believe the Trinity is true OR false. The point is that the way this section of the Forum is set up, it pits tradition against scripture AS IF THEY MUST BE CONTRARY TO ONE ANOTHER. Capiche? Tradition CAN Be in conformity with the Scriptures, according to the Scriptures themselves. 2 Thessalonians 3:6 (ESV) Now we command you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is walking in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us.” Traditions can be a good thing, that is all I am trying to say. However this site both “poisons the well” and commits the logical fallacy of a false dichotomy when it sets up a false/faulty dilemma by insinuating that tradition MUST be contrary to Scripture. Tradition CAN be contrary to Scripture, but it is not NECESSARILY contrary to Scripture.
blessings,
KenHi E,
You say as if such a choice is invalid
“1. Either you're for me or against me.”But Jesus says
“He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.”He made the choice of him and his teachings to be necessarily exclusive of other men and their teachings, such as Tertullian and his trinity.
Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 01 2008,05:52) http://www.truthortradition.com 
that entire site is based on the same fallacy….…. some traditions are bad, no question about it…. good or bad, traditions should NEVER be elevated in their level of authority to the same level of authority as the Scripture, period. But, again, traditions are not NECESSARILY bad. Is this concept that difficult to comprehend? I don't think so….
blessings,
KenQuote Tradition CAN be contrary to Scripture, but it is not NECESSARILY contrary to Scripture. This is a very good point.
Quote (david @ Sep. 10 2008,18:45) Quote Tradition CAN be contrary to Scripture, but it is not NECESSARILY contrary to Scripture. This is a very good point.
ty
blessings,
kenE, think of it as Traditions of men versus the truth. 'Truth or Tradition' is a small title and 'Truth of God and Traditions of Men' is too big.
So the Trinity is either a truth or not. Let your yes be yes and your no be no. That is what this category is about, i.e, discovering if things are from men or God.
It could easily be called from man or God.
Quote (t8 @ Dec. 20 2008,11:03) E, think of it as Traditions of men versus the truth. 'Truth or Tradition' is a small title and 'Truth of God and Traditions of Men' is too big. So the Trinity is either a truth or not. Let your yes be yes and your no be no. That is what this category is about, i.e, discovering if things are from men or God.
It could easily be called from man or God.
Then the thread title should be expanded…. because as it stands it commits an obvious logical fallacy. I have managed web sites like this and anyone can easily see that there would be room to change the title in such a way as to not be obviously faulty, as it begs the question that a tradition MUST be false.You continue to reveal this false disjunction when you say
Quote E, think of it as Traditions of men versus the truth. that is exactly the point at hand…. traditions do not NECESSARILY have to be “versus the truth”…. as if a tradition must necessarily be contrary to the truth,thus you are just repeating the error.
Suppose someone has a “tradition” that says there are exactly 66 books in their bible, no more, and no less. Now manifestly no one can find a scripture that says something like “thus says the Lord God Almighty, there will be 66 books in the Christian canon of Scriptures, no more and no less.” Since no such scripture exists, then manifestly it is a tradition which says that special revelation, the Christian Scriptures, will have 66 books, no more and no less.
That is the point.
blessings,
kenQuote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 01 2008,10:00) Hi E,
You say as if such a choice is invalid
“1. Either you're for me or against me.”But Jesus says
“He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.”He made the choice of him and his teachings to be necessarily exclusive of other men and their teachings, such as Tertullian and his trinity.
Nick,
Non-trinitarians hate it when others say that one must be a trinitarian in order to be saved. You are doing the same thing. You are saying one must be a non-trinitarian in order to be for Christ and that a trinitarian is necessarily against Christ.thinker
epistemaniac wrote:
Quote Every person is either wholly good or wholly evil.
According to God that is a true dilemma since if you break the royal law just in one area you have broken it all. Mankind is by nature evil but each of us can by calling be good because God is doing His good deeds through us using our faith in Jesus as King.
thinker……..Something to consider, we are commanded by the LORD GOD, “YOU SHALL HAVE (NO) OTHER GOD'S BESIDES ME.” and Jesus quoted scripture and said HEAR O ISRAEL THE LORD OUR GOD IS (ONE) LORD, not two or three triune anythings, and when he said (OUR) that included him. and again Jesus said He was going to His GOD and OUR GOD, His Father and OUR FATHER. Now with that in mind read Second Theologians verse two, about the man of SIN who is displayed as Sitting in heaven at the side of GOD and being displayed as A GOD. Now who do you know that Fits that. It can be ONLY JESUS , who will abolish this LIE by the words of His own mouth when He comes. This LIE about HIM has spread through out all Christendom . The trinity is dangerous water my friend. IMO
love and peace to you and yours……………………………gene
Quote (thethinker @ April 18 2009,19:13) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 01 2008,10:00) Hi E,
You say as if such a choice is invalid
“1. Either you're for me or against me.”But Jesus says
“He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.”He made the choice of him and his teachings to be necessarily exclusive of other men and their teachings, such as Tertullian and his trinity.
Nick,
Non-trinitarians hate it when others say that one must be a trinitarian in order to be saved. You are doing the same thing. You are saying one must be a non-trinitarian in order to be for Christ and that a trinitarian is necessarily against Christ.thinker
Good point.Quote (epistemaniac @ Sep. 01 2008,03:23) The title of this section of the Forum is a bit misleading and violates this informal rule in logic, it is not necessarily the case that Tradition is specifically contrary to Scripture. Of course tradition CAN be contrary to Scripture…. BUT…. it does not NECESSARILY HAVE TO BE…… and that's what the title of this section of the forum certainly implies, that Scripture and Tradition are necessarily mutually exclusive of one another, and plainly, simply, this is not the case.
Matthew 5:37
Simply let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and your 'No,' 'No'; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.Quote (Gene @ April 19 2009,04:04) thinker……..Something to concider, we are comamded by the LORD GOD, “YOU SHALL HAVE (NO) OTHER GOD'S BESIDES ME.” and Jesus quoted scripture and said HEAR O ISRAEL THE LORD OUR GOD IS (ONE) LORD, not two or three triune anythings, and when he said (OUR) that included him. and again Jesus said He was going to His GOD and OUR GOD, His Father and OUR FATHER. Now with that in mind read Second Theologians verse two, about the man of SIN who is displayed as Sitting in heaven at the side of GOD and being displayed as A GOD. Now who do you know that Fits that. It can be ONLY JESUS , who will abolish this LIE by the words of His own mouth when He comes. This LIE about HIM has spread through out all Christendom . IMO love and peace to you and yours……………………………gene
Gene,
The Scripture says also YHWH was Israel's one and only Lord. Yet God has made Jesus “Lord.” By your logic God breaks His own commandment.thinker
Quote (thethinker @ April 20 2009,02:42) Quote (Gene @ April 19 2009,04:04) thinker……..Something to concider, we are comamded by the LORD GOD, “YOU SHALL HAVE (NO) OTHER GOD'S BESIDES ME.” and Jesus quoted scripture and said HEAR O ISRAEL THE LORD OUR GOD IS (ONE) LORD, not two or three triune anythings, and when he said (OUR) that included him. and again Jesus said He was going to His GOD and OUR GOD, His Father and OUR FATHER. Now with that in mind read Second Theologians verse two, about the man of SIN who is displayed as Sitting in heaven at the side of GOD and being displayed as A GOD. Now who do you know that Fits that. It can be ONLY JESUS , who will abolish this LIE by the words of His own mouth when He comes. This LIE about HIM has spread through out all Christendom . IMO love and peace to you and yours……………………………gene
Gene,
The Scripture says also YHWH was Israel's one and only Lord. Yet God has made Jesus “Lord.” By your logic God breaks His own commandment.thinker
Are you saying you believe God made(appointed) Jesus the one Deity of Israel?
Quote (kerwin @ April 20 2009,09:48) Quote (thethinker @ April 20 2009,02:42) Quote (Gene @ April 19 2009,04:04) thinker……..Something to concider, we are comamded by the LORD GOD, “YOU SHALL HAVE (NO) OTHER GOD'S BESIDES ME.” and Jesus quoted scripture and said HEAR O ISRAEL THE LORD OUR GOD IS (ONE) LORD, not two or three triune anythings, and when he said (OUR) that included him. and again Jesus said He was going to His GOD and OUR GOD, His Father and OUR FATHER. Now with that in mind read Second Theologians verse two, about the man of SIN who is displayed as Sitting in heaven at the side of GOD and being displayed as A GOD. Now who do you know that Fits that. It can be ONLY JESUS , who will abolish this LIE by the words of His own mouth when He comes. This LIE about HIM has spread through out all Christendom . IMO love and peace to you and yours……………………………gene
Gene,
The Scripture says also YHWH was Israel's one and only Lord. Yet God has made Jesus “Lord.” By your logic God breaks His own commandment.thinker
Are you saying you believe God made(appointed) Jesus the one Deity of Israel?
Yeap! Please explain your problem with it.thanks,
thinkerQuote (thethinker @ April 20 2009,07:42) Quote (Gene @ April 19 2009,04:04) thinker……..Something to concider, we are comamded by the LORD GOD, “YOU SHALL HAVE (NO) OTHER GOD'S BESIDES ME.” and Jesus quoted scripture and said HEAR O ISRAEL THE LORD OUR GOD IS (ONE) LORD, not two or three triune anythings, and when he said (OUR) that included him. and again Jesus said He was going to His GOD and OUR GOD, His Father and OUR FATHER. Now with that in mind read Second Theologians verse two, about the man of SIN who is displayed as Sitting in heaven at the side of GOD and being displayed as A GOD. Now who do you know that Fits that. It can be ONLY JESUS , who will abolish this LIE by the words of His own mouth when He comes. This LIE about HIM has spread through out all Christendom . IMO love and peace to you and yours……………………………gene
Gene,
The Scripture says also YHWH was Israel's one and only Lord. Yet God has made Jesus “Lord.” By your logic God breaks His own commandment.thinker
Hi brother,
So what?
Do you mean “Lord” means God in that case?
If so you make two Gods in your Bible; One Father and other Jesus.
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