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Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 09 2007,05:00) This is unambiguous. Many wish that John 1:1 and 20:28 were just not there, in fact many wish that Johns writtings were not in the Cannon period.
Give me 10 names then.
Quote (t8 @ Nov. 09 2007,07:54) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 09 2007,05:00) This is unambiguous. Many wish that John 1:1 and 20:28 were just not there, in fact many wish that Johns writtings were not in the Cannon period.
Give me 10 names then.
t8Its one of those things where the secrets of mens hearts is revealed by their rejection of the text and the way the translators translated it or interpreted it!
Assumption then.
A person who wishes that certain scriptures were not mentioned is not being true. He is trying to avoid something because it is conflict with his belief. Rather we shouldn't be afraid of any scripture. Instead they should sharpen us and we should love to embrace them.
I wonder however if you are happy about these scriptures?
1 Timothy 6:15-16
15 which God will bring about in his own time, God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords,
16 who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen.John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.Ephesians 4:4-6
4 there is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called
5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.If you are happy with them and accept their challenge to your doctrine, then that is good. But if you ignore them because they are difficult, then who are you trying to kid? Yourself?
The main difference with the above scriptures and Thomas saying “my lord and theos” is that the above are clear teachings and “my lord and theos” is something that Thomas said.
Now a clear teaching is what it is and words uttered by a person are not necessarily clear teachings. They could be, and at worse they could also be error. Historical accounts can also record spoken error, if it is true that it was mentioned.
The gospels as eye witness accounts, say that Thomas said “my lord and theos”, but as we all know, he could have easily been referring to Jesus and God (as does scripture in hundreds of places), he could have been referring exclusively to Jesus, as theos, but not as the Most High Theos, or he could have even been in error and actually meant what you teach. Surely recording what a man said is also not an endorsement or clear teaching. It may be and may not be.
When it comes to clear teaching versus something someone said in scripture that could contradict if viewed in a certain way, well clear teaching should win hands down. After all, we do not know the context and complete meaning of what Thomas was meaning because it is not fully explained and we are left to imagine. However there are ways to look at what he said without contradiction too.
But clear teaching is indisputable and there are hundreds of witness scriptures that show Jesus and God to be different persons or identities. So widespread are the scriptures that speak of them as different identities that it is really impossible to say that they are the same God without having serious issues with the New Testament.
the word God itself is inconceivable …. how can something before anything create everything out of nothing, including himself? you see its all imaginary and really universal knowledge from such places as atlantis or who ever was around before the egyptians. Jesus is not god no where in john 1;1 or anywhere else does it say make me a new religion and worship me my birth and my death these are mythical stories of the sun proven so is jesus real or not all sun gods are born live and die and promise to come back horus hasnt returned mithras tammuz or jesus hasnt returned either. unless u understand the light of the world and our risen savior returns everyday. the jewish god and four letter word is an expression of a big bang an explosion of energy like an eruption like sexual act and like a volcano thats why it was a jew that came up with big bang theory because thats what “yhwh” stands for the release of a build up of energy thts why u have moses at mount sinai a volcano where he speaks to the volcano thunder god and comes back glowing ,i bet, and hair white some ufoligist say aliens and radiation id say ash?!?! and then u have their temple original designs show masons reinacting the sexual act of the head of penis entering the vagina the creation the big bang?!?
Hi apophis.
I can see you are not a believer.
That said, you are not suppose to be posting in this forum.
There are other forums within this BBS where you are free to express such things.
I say this because this BBS is moderated and posts should keep to the subject of the discussion of which your post does not.
Try this category, it might be more appropriate:
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….=SC;c=3Quote (t8 @ Nov. 09 2007,10:31) Assumption then. A person who wishes that certain scriptures were not mentioned is not being true. He is trying to avoid something because it is conflict with his belief. Rather we shouldn't be afraid of any scripture. Instead they should sharpen us and we should love to embrace them.
I wonder however if you are happy about these scriptures?
1 Timothy 6:15-16
15 which God will bring about in his own time, God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords,
16 who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen.John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.Ephesians 4:4-6
4 there is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called
5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.If you are happy with them and accept their challenge to your doctrine, then that is good. But if you ignore them because they are difficult, then who are you trying to kid? Yourself?
The main difference with the above scriptures and Thomas saying “my lord and theos” is that the above are clear teachings and “my lord and theos” is something that Thomas said.
Now a clear teaching is what it is and words uttered by a person are not necessarily clear teachings. They could be, and at worse they could also be error. Historical accounts can also record spoken error, if it is true that it was mentioned.
The gospels as eye witness accounts, say that Thomas said “my lord and theos”, but as we all know, he could have easily been referring to Jesus and God (as does scripture in hundreds of places), he could have been referring exclusively to Jesus, as theos, but not as the Most High Theos, or he could have even been in error and actually meant what you teach. Surely recording what a man said is also not an endorsement or clear teaching. It may be and may not be.
When it comes to clear teaching versus something someone said in scripture that could contradict if viewed in a certain way, well clear teaching should win hands down. After all, we do not know the context and complete meaning of what Thomas was meaning because it is not fully explained and we are left to imagine. However there are ways to look at what he said without contradiction too.
But clear teaching is indisputable and there are hundreds of witness scriptures that show Jesus and God to be different persons or identities. So widespread are the scriptures that speak of them as different identities that it is really impossible to say that they are the same God without having serious issues with the New Testament.
None of these Scripture you posted are contrary to TRUE DOCTRINE.Good Luck trying to understand spiritual things with the fleshy mind. You will do it in vain.
Laurel
Quote (apophis @ Jan. 02 2008,20:48) the word God itself is inconceivable …. how can something before anything create everything out of nothing, including himself? you see its all imaginary and really universal knowledge from such places as atlantis or who ever was around before the egyptians. Jesus is not god no where in john 1;1 or anywhere else does it say make me a new religion and worship me my birth and my death these are mythical stories of the sun proven so is jesus real or not all sun gods are born live and die and promise to come back horus hasnt returned mithras tammuz or jesus hasnt returned either. unless u understand the light of the world and our risen savior returns everyday. the jewish god and four letter word is an expression of a big bang an explosion of energy like an eruption like sexual act and like a volcano thats why it was a jew that came up with big bang theory because thats what “yhwh” stands for the release of a build up of energy thts why u have moses at mount sinai a volcano where he speaks to the volcano thunder god and comes back glowing ,i bet, and hair white some ufoligist say aliens and radiation id say ash?!?! and then u have their temple original designs show masons reinacting the sexual act of the head of penis entering the vagina the creation the big bang?!?
Now you can see why man has taken YHWH's creation and His Set-apart things and has made them into his own image. Because YHWH in His infinite wisdom has created all things to show the fleshy mind Himself as the fleshy mind is simple compared to His complexity.So man to his own destruction has twisted the good things He has made, so that even His elect might be deceived if they do not hold fast to His Word, His Spirit, His Truth, and His Son.
Do not trust in men. Trust in YHWH, or you will end up being decived. Believe His Word. His Word is truth.
Unbelief can not undo reality, it only confirms ignorance and the selfish desire of the evil in them.
Laurel
As for physical oneness between a man and a woman which was created to be beautiful, man has once again twisted the beauty of His physical expression of oneness between two, and have perverted it into a physical pleasure only, causing in effect disease, hatred, abortion, sodomy etc.
Those who practice sin will never be allowed to feel and see and have that Set-apart oneness that He offers to all those who follow Him. Death is their ultimate reward, and they deserve it.
Laurel
Laurel I do not think that you have the right to judge who goes to the lake of fire or not, that is Jesus Job. If you think that you are without sin then the truth is not in you, scripture says in John. All I can tell out of your post is, that you are angry, and not loving, that will get you nowhere. So be careful who you judge you might be judging Angels. We all are sinners and fall short of the glory of God. But because we have a Savior Jesus Christ we are under His Blood, and we have been forgiven of our Sins.
Love is the greatest Commandments of all.Quote (apophis @ Jan. 02 2008,20:48) the word God itself is inconceivable …. how can something before anything create everything out of nothing, including himself? you see its all imaginary and really universal knowledge from such places as atlantis or who ever was around before the egyptians. Jesus is not god no where in john 1;1 or anywhere else does it say make me a new religion and worship me my birth and my death these are mythical stories of the sun proven so is jesus real or not all sun gods are born live and die and promise to come back horus hasnt returned mithras tammuz or jesus hasnt returned either. unless u understand the light of the world and our risen savior returns everyday. the jewish god and four letter word is an expression of a big bang an explosion of energy like an eruption like sexual act and like a volcano thats why it was a jew that came up with big bang theory because thats what “yhwh” stands for the release of a build up of energy thts why u have moses at mount sinai a volcano where he speaks to the volcano thunder god and comes back glowing ,i bet, and hair white some ufoligist say aliens and radiation id say ash?!?! and then u have their temple original designs show masons reinacting the sexual act of the head of penis entering the vagina the creation the big bang?!?
The answer to your question is easy…( GOD IS )
IAM that IAM
El Shaddai
El GeborQuote (theodorej @ Mar. 01 2008,01:01) Quote (apophis @ Jan. 02 2008,20:48) the word God itself is inconceivable …. how can something before anything create everything out of nothing, including himself? you see its all imaginary and really universal knowledge from such places as atlantis or who ever was around before the egyptians. Jesus is not god no where in john 1;1 or anywhere else does it say make me a new religion and worship me my birth and my death these are mythical stories of the sun proven so is jesus real or not all sun gods are born live and die and promise to come back horus hasnt returned mithras tammuz or jesus hasnt returned either. unless u understand the light of the world and our risen savior returns everyday. the jewish god and four letter word is an expression of a big bang an explosion of energy like an eruption like sexual act and like a volcano thats why it was a jew that came up with big bang theory because thats what “yhwh” stands for the release of a build up of energy thts why u have moses at mount sinai a volcano where he speaks to the volcano thunder god and comes back glowing ,i bet, and hair white some ufoligist say aliens and radiation id say ash?!?! and then u have their temple original designs show masons reinacting the sexual act of the head of penis entering the vagina the creation the big bang?!?
The answer to your question is easy…( GOD IS )
IAM that IAM
El Shaddai
El Gebor
Greetings…..In addition I might add that,the big bang theory
is just that,and a seriously flawed one at that.
If we can agree that ,there is order in the universe (eg. night to day…season to season…etc.)
Assuming we agree that there is order in the universe then how can any enlighned educated person derive order from an explosion.
The very nature of an explosion is chaos and a total lack of order.Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 03 2009,18:01) hi
georg
do you say that you cannot juge wicket pratice?because it is not love?
This seems to be off subject terraricca.“my lord and my God” has caused me a great deal of thought, also. And it's too bad not much more is in scripture about Thomas. But I agree that either:(a) Thomas was talking to both Jesus and Jehovah;(b) Thomas was calling Jesus a god; or  Thomas actually thought that Jesus was God. None of the choices prove a trinity.
If you think it was (a), there is no debate.
If you think it was (b), consider this: The Contemporary English Version adds a footnote below Judges 13:22 “Manoah said, 'We have seen an angel.'” (Footnote:angel-The Hebrew text has “god”, which can be used of God or of other supernatural beings). Webster's defines god as any number of beings thought to have supernatural powers…and it seems that was the definition in Hebrew times, and we can assume from 2 Corinthians 4:4, “the god of this age” that it was the same definition in Paul's day. So why is it that we can understand that the angel spoken of in Judges, and Satan, the god spoken of in 2 Corinthians are not God, but when Jesus is spoken of as a god, it automatically means God Almighty?
If you think it was Â, consider this: In Revelation, John bowed down to worship an angel not once, but twice. All men are imperfect and have been since Adam. I wonder if Jesus had told Thomas what the angel in Revelation told John, would it be enough to end the belief in the trinity?
One more question: Do trinitarians still believe that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are co-equal and co-eternal? I thought someone on this site was inferring that was a modolar belief. I don't even know what modolar is.
According to KJ, if there are 2 definite articles it is 2 people.
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ May 04 2009,10:26) Brother Seeking,
I would like to submit for your consideration the following Greek grammar:
Special use of the Greek article:1. With the conjunction kai
When two nouns are joined by the conjunction kai:
a. If both nouns have the definite article they refer to different persons (or things). THE apostle and (kai) THE disciple.
These are two different people.b. If the first of the two nouns has the article and the second does not, the two are one person (or thing). THE apostle and (kai) disciple. This is one person, (Essentials of New testament Greek, Ray Summers, Broadman Press, p. 130).
Therefore, Titus 2:13 declares Jesus is God
This means that John 20:28, is Thomas talking to Jesus and to another called God who must be the Father according to KJ's rule.
John 20:28 literally says “THE lord of me and THE god [theos] of me”.
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Mar. 25 2011,16:14) Where is the “kai” in the sentence? 
Quote According to KJ, if there are 2 definite articles it is 2 people. Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ May 04 2009,10:26) Brother Seeking,
I would like to submit for your consideration the following Greek grammar:
Special use of the Greek article:1. With the conjunction kai
When two nouns are joined by the conjunction kai:
a. If both nouns have the definite article they refer to different persons (or things). THE apostle and (kai) THE disciple.
These are two different people.b. If the first of the two nouns has the article and the second does not, the two are one person (or thing). THE apostle and (kai) disciple. This is one person, (Essentials of New testament Greek, Ray Summers, Broadman Press, p. 130).
Therefore, Titus 2:13 declares Jesus is God
This means that John 20:28, is Thomas talking to Jesus and to another called God who must be the Father according to KJ's rule.
John 20:28 literally says “THE lord of me and THE god [theos] of me”.
.
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