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t8….> where isa1:18…uses the text that say's Christ is all and in all. That was the Spirit that made Christ the Christ it is that Spirit that was in him and is in all. This scripture was showing the Spirit not Jesus the man. It was God in Jesus working through him and through all who have His Spirit. Jesus is a prototype of what God wants all to be.
What he used dosn't change one thing you said. Hold to the truth you are right on this.
All your posts on the subject of the False teachings of the trinity are good and right brother……geneQuote (Mr. Steve @ Aug. 15 2007,12:10) CB; Who did the soldiers that crucified Christ say he was?
If Christ is God Almighty, who died on the cross and who was raised from the dead?
Mr. Steve
Mr Steve. It was Jehovah (Jesus) The First and The Last.Look at the scriptures.
Rev 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: Rev 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore,, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
This is obviously Jesus speaking. Jesus (Jehovah); The First and Last. Jesus is the one “that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore”. No amount of your “twisting scriptures” can deny this fact.
Isa 44:6 So says Jehovah, the King of Israel, and His redeemer Jehovah of Hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and besides Me there is no God.
Furthermore, Jesus is the Almighty God.
Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
2Pe 3:16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable pervert, as also they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction).
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 15 2007,14:36) t8….> where isa1:18…uses the text that say's Christ is all and in all. That was the Spirit that made Christ the Christ it is that Spirit that was in him and is in all. This scripture was showing the Spirit not Jesus the man. It was God in Jesus working through him and through all who have His Spirit. Jesus is a prototype of what God wants all to be. What he used dosn't change one thing you said. Hold to the truth you are right on this.
All your posts on the subject of the False teachings of the trinity are good and right brother……gene
Thank you my friend.
Quote (Mr. Steve @ Aug. 16 2007,10:42) CB; If Christ is Jehovah, who sent him?
Steven
Jehovah.Unfortunately for you Mr Steve, your masonic doctrine cannot explain the Bible truth that there are three who are called Jehovah.
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%2….m
Isa 9:6 For to us a Child is born, to us a Son is given; and the government shall be on His shoulder; and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,JOHN 5:17-18 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. (18) Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
MATTHEW 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Compare
Psa 45:6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre
With
Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever:a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.Compare
Psa 41:13 Blessed be the LORD (Jehovah) God of Israel from everlasting, and to everlasting. Amen, and Amen.
With
MICAH 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, {though} thou be little among the thousands of Judah, {yet} out of thee shall he come forth unto me {that is} to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth {have been} from of old, from everlasting.JOHN 5:23 That all {men} should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father.
JOHN 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am
Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.Compare
1 CHRONICLES 28:9 . . . the Lord searcheth all hearts, and understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts:
With
MATTHEW 9:4 And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts?
MATTHEW 12:25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, . . .
REVELATION 2:23 . . . I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: . . .Compare
DANIEL 9:9 To the Lord our God {belong} mercies and forgivenesses, though we have rebelled against him;
LUKE 5:21 And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?
With
LUKE 5:20 And when he saw their faith, he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee.
MARK 2:5-10 When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee. (6) But there were certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts, (7) Why doth this {man} thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?Compare
Isa 40:3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.
With
Mat 3:3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.Compare
1Sa 2:2 There is none holy as the LORD (Jehovah): for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God.
Psa 78:35 And they remembered that God was their rock, and the high God their redeemer.
With
1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD (yhovah), I change not;
Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.PSALM 148:1-2 Praise ye the Lord. Praise ye the Lord from the heavens: praise him in the heights. (2) Praise ye him, all his angels : praise ye him, all his hosts.
HEBREWS 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.DEUTERONOMY 10:17 For the Lord your God {is} God of Gods, and Lord of Lords, a great God, . . . {cf. Ps 136:2-3, 1 Tim 6:15}
REVELATION 17:14 . . . the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: . . .{cf. Rev 19:16}PSALM 62:12 . . . unto thee, O Lord, {belongeth} mercy: for thou renderest to every man according to his work. {cf. Is 40:10}
MATTHEW 16:27 For the Son of man shall . . . reward every man according to his works.ROMANS 7:22 . . . the law of God . . . {cf. Ps 19:7}
GALATIANS 6:2 . . . fulfil the law of Christ.ROMANS 8:9 . . . the Spirit of God. . .
+ROMANS 8:9 . . . the Spirit of Christ, .. .*TITUS 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
+ACTS 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.*ISAIAH 43:11 I, {even} I, {am} the Lord (Jehovah); and beside me {there is} no saviour.
*LUKE 1:47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.
+LUKE 2:11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.
2 PETER 1:1 . . . God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
Mat 1:21 And she shall bear a son, and you shall call His name JESUS: for He shall save His people from their sins*ISAIAH 40:10 Behold, the Lord God will come with strong {hand}, and his arm shall rule for him: behold, his reward {is} with him, and his work before him.
2 THESSALONIANS 1:7-8 . . . the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, (8) In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:Psa 50:6 And the heavens shall declare his righteousness; For God is judge himself. Selah
Psa 7:8 The LORD (Jehovah) shall judge the people: judge me, O LORD, according to my righteousness, and according to mine integrity that is in me.
ECCLESIASTES 12:14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether {it be} good or whether {it be} evil.
JOHN 5:22,27 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son . . . (27) And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.Act 7:59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
Act 7:60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep. (Stephen kneeling and praying to Jesus)Phi 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Phi 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Phi 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.Joh 7:42 Hath not
the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was?
2Ti 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:
Jer 23:5-6 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch (Jesus), and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD (Jehovah)OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.COLOSSIANS 2:9-10 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Col 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:TITUS 2:13 awaiting our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ
2Pe 3:16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable pervert, as also they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction).
Unfortunately for you CultB, you are in the mother cult.
First come out of the Babylonian cult and then you might see clearly to point out related things to others.Mr Steve. There are not seven Jehovahs in scripture. Revelation says that they are the seven spirits of God.
Who do you say they are?
Quote (t8 @ Aug. 23 2007,15:24) Unfortunately for you CultB, you are in the mother cult.
First come out of the Babylonian cult and then you might see clearly to point out related things to others.t8. Is that the best that you can do? I hoped that you would provide an intelligent response from scripture. Seeing that you won't, then I shall.
TITUS 2:13 awaiting our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ
Isn't that a wonderful verse t8? Don't you think so?
2Pe 3:16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable pervert, as also they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction).
CB;
The scripture says that it pleased the Father that in him (Christ) should dwell all the fullness of God. Christ is the express image of God the Father. The Father has given all things into the hand of his Son including many of the names which are only attributed to the Father. This is because he represents the Father to the fullest degree because in Christ dwells the fullness of the Father. He “gave” not the spirit by measure unto him. Christ is the tabernacle in the wilderness by whom God Almighty dwells among us. This was the intent of God when he said let them make a tabernacle that I may dwell among them. Until you understand that you will dwell in confusion because you have God in Isaiah saying he is the first and last and Jesus in Revelation making the same statement. In Revelation the work of God in Christ is fulfilled. Christ is the forerunner and God has predestined that many will be conformed to the image of Christ. Romans 8:29 This is why it is so important to understand the Father's work in Christ so we can understand his work in us, too.
Take Care
Steven
Quote (Cult Buster @ Aug. 26 2007,22:07) Quote (t8 @ Aug. 23 2007,15:24) Unfortunately for you CultB, you are in the mother cult.
First come out of the Babylonian cult and then you might see clearly to point out related things to others.t8. Is that the best that you can do? I hoped that you would provide an intelligent response from scripture. Seeing that you won't, then I shall.
TITUS 2:13 awaiting our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ
Isn't that a wonderful verse t8? Don't you think so?
2Pe 3:16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable pervert, as also they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction).
Hi CultB.I am not insulting you, rather just saying it as it is, but intelligent responses to you are met with a robotic response with a picking from the usual group of scriptures that you favour. So such responses are wasted on you, and only have a benefit for others who read.
The problem is that you ignore all the other scriptures and your bias is so strong that you cannot read the Great God and saviour Jesus with what Paul says, regarding One God the Father and one Lord Jesus.
You merge them into the same entity and then see scripture as pointing to your predefined beliefs. Yet for us (believers) there is one God the Father, and one Lord, the Lord Jesus Christ.
If you cannot see your chosen few scriptures in light of other scriptures, then you are fulfilling that which was written regarding only hearing what your itching ears want to hear.
Quote (t8 @ Sep. 18 2007,12:28) Quote (Cult Buster @ Aug. 26 2007,22:07) Quote (t8 @ Aug. 23 2007,15:24) Unfortunately for you CultB, you are in the mother cult.
First come out of the Babylonian cult and then you might see clearly to point out related things to others.t8. Is that the best that you can do? I hoped that you would provide an intelligent response from scripture. Seeing that you won't, then I shall.
TITUS 2:13 awaiting our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ
Isn't that a wonderful verse t8? Don't you think so?
2Pe 3:16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable pervert, as also they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction).
Hi CultB.I am not insulting you, rather just saying it as it is, but intelligent responses to you are met with a robotic response with a picking from the usual group of scriptures that you favour. So such responses are wasted on you, and only have a benefit for others who read.
The problem is that you ignore all the other scriptures and your bias is so strong that you cannot read the Great God and saviour Jesus with what Paul says, regarding One God the Father and one Lord Jesus.
You merge them into the same entity and then see scripture as pointing to your predefined beliefs. Yet for us (believers) there is one God the Father, and one Lord, the Lord Jesus Christ.
If you cannot see your chosen few scriptures in light of other scriptures, then you are fulfilling that which was written regarding only hearing what your itching ears want to hear.
t8You say…
Quote
You merge them into the same entity and then see scripture as pointing to your predefined beliefs. Yet for us (believers) there is one God the Father, and one Lord, the Lord Jesus Christ.You say to you there is “One Lord”, the Lord Jesus Christ.
Did Paul get it wrong?
Jesus said…
Mk12:29
And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:How do you explain this?
WJ,
I just had to reply to this one because it is so obvious: Mat 12:29 is quoted from the Septuagint, which came to replace YHWH or YHVH with “kyrios”. You know that the original Hebrew phrase was “YHWH our God is one YHWH”.
Quote (kejonn @ Oct. 02 2007,00:26) WJ, I just had to reply to this one because it is so obvious: Mat 12:29 is quoted from the Septuagint, which came to replace YHWH or YHVH with “kyrios”. You know that the original Hebrew phrase was “YHWH our God is one YHWH”.
kejonnExactly my point.
Who can prove that “Kyrios” in refering to the “Lord” Jesus Christ is not YHWH?
For example…
Is 45:21
Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD (YHWH)? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.
22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
24 Surely, shall one say, in the LORD (YHWH) have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.
25 In the LORD (YHWH) shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.Look very close at these scriptures. who is our righteousness?
Who is it that men come for strength or salvation? (“Look unto me and be ye saved vrs 22”) Who is it that men shall be ashamed for rejecting?And who is it that every knee shall bow?
Why would Paul draw upon this scripture and apply it to Yeshua?
And if yoiu think he didnt mean YHWH then he must not have known these scriptures, But I doubt that. There would be no reason for Paul to ascribe such scriptures that belong only to YHWH, to Yeshua.
Rom 14:11
For it is written, [As] I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.Phil 2:10
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.While you may recite that The Father made Yeshua “Lord”, that is a post ressurection scripture of Yeshau after he recieved back “All Power and authority” and the Glory that he had shared with the Father as YHWH, when he left his place of Glory according to Phil 2:6-8 and Jn 17:5.
Isnt it amazing in the same chapter of Phil 2 where Paul says he was equal with God that he then ascribes 2:10,11 calling on Is 45:23 to Yeshua?
The kicker is…
Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.Did YHWH lie? For he says there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me there is none else.
Do you think Paul had read these words being a Hebrew of the Hebrews?
t8 You say that “theos” can apply to Yeshua as “a god” rather than “God”…
Is 43:10
Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD (YHWH), and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.Is 44:6
Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.YHWH hasnt changed his mind and made an image of himself that we are to bow down to!!!
before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
WJ,
And your point is fairly valid in that the Septuagint translators eventually eliminated YHWH from the manuscripts. There is much evidence that the earliest copies still had the Tetragrammaton when Greek writing Jews were the scribes. However, as time passed and the Septuagint fell out of favor with Jews, Christians who did not realize the value of YHWH replaced it with “kyrios”. Thus, we started having ambiguity of the OT and NT terms. I wonder how much would be cleared up for us had the Tetragrammaton remained “as is”?
There is no record of the use of the Tetragrammaton in any NT manuscripts, although supposedly there were some according to the Babylonian Talmud.
Quote (Mr. Steve @ Oct. 02 2007,06:31) WJ; Does Jesus have a God?
Steven
mr steveYes! Jesus was also a man.
Jesus calls the Father God. and the Father calls Jesus God!
Heb 1:8
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.The writer of the book of Hebrews by the spirit elevated this scripture taken from Pss 45:6,7 as prophetic of the Father speaking to the Son.
And then confirms who this “God” is in verse 10 of Hebrew 1 quoting Pss 102…
Pss 102:10
Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.
11 But thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end.Heb 1:10
And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;The context of Pss 102 is speaking of YHWH, yet again we see the writter of the book of Hebrews elevating and ascribing yet another scrpture about YHWH to Yeshua.
And yet we read…
Isa 44:24
Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; *that stretcheth forth the heavens alone*; that spreadeth abroad the earth *by myself*;How would you explain this?
Isa 1:18 also has some good stuff on this one.
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….;t=1278Blessings!
Quote (kejonn @ Oct. 02 2007,07:02) WJ, And your point is fairly valid in that the Septuagint translators eventually eliminated YHWH from the manuscripts. There is much evidence that the earliest copies still had the Tetragrammaton when Greek writing Jews were the scribes. However, as time passed and the Septuagint fell out of favor with Jews, Christians who did not realize the value of YHWH replaced it with “kyrios”. Thus, we started having ambiguity of the OT and NT terms. I wonder how much would be cleared up for us had the Tetragrammaton remained “as is”?
There is no record of the use of the Tetragrammaton in any NT manuscripts, although supposedly there were some according to the Babylonian Talmud.
kejonnWow! That was easy.
I give you credit for giving me this Info.
You brought it up originally and I started looking into it.
Thanks for your info.
Blessings Keith
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