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Dear Sirs!
My name is Andrey Kostyuk.
It is writen in the Book of Life
at least since 26.05.2002.
I've been minisrting in our worship team
more then 3 years, as a bass guitarist and drummer.Here are some truths that I've got.
Everithing in them is glorifing God.
In our fellowship I'll be very glad,
If you thoroughly inspect … all of that.I'm trying to fit in this message all
my apology about spirits, hierarchy and
Trinity doctrine.
If you will find something interesting
here, please contact me before any kind of
usage of material below.My spare e-mail is [email protected].
With love in Him, our Precious Jesus,
Andrey Kostyuk,
Sevastopol,
Ukraine.About the spirit
Blessed is the One, coming in the name of the Lord! Baruh aba be shem Adonay!
Glory be to You, our Father, praise be to You, Lord Jesus, honor be to You, Holy Spirit!
God, who had loved us in Christ, endowed us in Him with a true knowledge and revelation of Himself to us, His very children. Who may know Father better, then His children? To whom He will eager to disclose Himself most of all?
We are created and called by God in His Holy fellowship, to mutual relations based on righteousness from faith in Blood of Jesus Christ.
Relationship of Father and child implies and supposes the certain level of openness, sincere and pure depth of heart, corresponding to the title in the spiritual world – God’s child. In the whole universe by position any personality neither –angels, nor people of this world – has no right to get to know God as closely as we do – His chosen children.
That is why Father gives us knowledge about Himself according to the volume of our vessels, their purity and time, which is in His will. We are called to the fellowship with God – this is our privilege, right and duty by position and predisposition of heart.
Prayer is an exercise in our heart’s expression to God and acceptance of His heart’s expression to us, i.e. God’s hearing.
Prayer – fellowship with God – this is our permanent state, mode, rhythm and mover of life inside of us.
The first part of prayer – to speak – is easy at any spiritual age. It is heart’s pouring out (Luke 6:45). The things, which to the moment were sowed, planted, born fruits, the same are spoken.
The second part of prayer – to listen – appears to be a labour of learning of God and His Holy will for the Holy Ghost’s direction and performing of one’s predestination, i.e. spiritual growth.
In order to hear it’s necessary to know the One, Who you are going to hear, it’s an essential thing to understand the essence of God, as a base, as a nature of His communication. God is the spirit, angels are auxiliary spirits, human being is the spirit and demons are spirits of evil firmament. So what the “spirit” is?
When ancient people defined “spirit”, they, possibly, gave a definition: spirit is like an air, which is invisible, but it appears to be and present everywhere, it is like a breath, giving birth to words and filling them with a sense, it is like a wind, is invisible, but acts powerfully, crashing strong rocks (1King19:11,12).
Spirit is an idea, sense, gist, notion, concept, pure information without a bearer (“vessel”), God’s plan about…, predestination, aggregate way in space and time…
The nature (mechanism, material) of spirit is the idea, information. The content of spirit is the God’s plan, predestination. The spirit’s function is the eternal life.
Father of spirits, the Holy Ghost, contents in Himself a definition of spirit.
For example, a spoon – it’s a substance, form, weight etc. It has its own spirit – the idea of what the spoon is, its functions and designation, i.e. all aggregate information on it. Even if all spoons on the earth are destroyed, no one thinks of it, than the spirit-idea of spoon, being once created by God, can not be destroyed. The spirit of created, having the beginning, is eternal. But, for example, idols have not their own spirit (they implies fallen spirits (angels), lost the God’s plan on them, i.e. contents, but not the material – information, Jer10:14, 51:17, Heb4:12), because God did not devise that someone worshipped not to Him, i.e. the initial content of any spirit is the God’s plan, His truth, verity about a created being or thing.
The human being got used to perceive spirits, expressed by means of spiritual vessels. It’s a novel and even hard or impossible thing for man to abstract himself, in order to perceive an idea, information, which is not contained in that vessel and which is not expressed by means of it.
Vessels of spirit are following: a word, a human being, a number or a figure, music, an image, a symbol, a doing, a sign, a situation, a picture and another…
Try to imagine a “bear” idea of a number three without any vessel. You will represent some three objects, so the man is arranged. The maximal abstracting may give you out some three vague spots in conscious, but they are vessels also. I don’t mention spiritual gifts, e.g. the word of knowledge let our spirit perceive “bear” information, a spirit, which is not expressed by means of any vessel. But we perceive in the other way at our daily state.
The most perfect vessel of spirit is word. The Word of God contains in Himself the Idea of God, the one about what the Holy Spirit is. The Word is spirit and life. The spirit (“pneuma”), just like a breath, coming out with air, gives birth to a word.
Spirit exists in three aspects: content (plan, idea), vessel (word, symbol) and dynamics of their mutual action (result, creation, substance (fine or coarse) or its movement (energy)).
Gen1:1-3 “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.” As apologists say (with my addition), the possible understanding of this poetic description is following: “Having the beginning of time dimension being established, God spread the space and created shapeless substance (the prime dust of the Universe (Prov8:26)). The God’s project, information, pre-eternal plan began to realize by means of the Word by introducing energy into the darkness of the world – even the light.” (Job12:10)
In Gen1:26 the human being – the image and likeness of God, i.e. a vessel, designed for the Holy Spirit. God is eager to show, to disclose Himself to all the creation by means of mankind. The way, mean of expression of God with a human being, perfected and performed in space and time – the same is a human being’s spirit, his predestination, aggregate information, conceived by God, about a life way of personality, God’s plan of man – this is the human being’s spirit.
The human being’s spirit is written in his gene (substantial info bearer). This is information about one’s body, soul, personality and his way and destination in God. It is confirmed by presence of generic blessings and curses in mankind (Exodus20:5-6). The way, in which God sees a man at each point of space and time, in what quality He wants to see him – it’s man’s spirit. A spiritual age of person is how deeply he has fulfilled his God’s plan, his mutual relations with God, degree of his ability to be led by the Holyghost. God speaks to man in many ways and many times, i.e. through divers channels of getting information and by means of numerous vessels of spirit. Young in God people, inexperienced ones in a sophisticated spiritual world, which is an ocean of information, have reliable access to God by faith in Christ, trusting Bible. As the man grows he masters new channels of communication wit
h God, by other vessels – images of visions, dreams, symbols in Scriptures and everyday life, situations, expressing ideas, words and deeds of people and another inspired from God.The language, in which God speaks, is multiform. It’s important, apprehending the surrounding world spiritually (in ideas), to see in everything vessels of spirit, associatively connect these vessels by relationship after revelation of the Holy Spirit, according to expression of one idea-spirit. Afterwards, when the spirit is perceived, it is vitally important to discern it. Spiritual hearing (sight) is an understanding of the language of spiritual world; this is interpretation of vessels of spirits. But hearing of spiritual world and hearing of God, these are not the same. We, being imbued with the Word of God, learn to distinguish evil things from good ones by experience.
The most anti-interference channel of communication with God, “reliable access by faith in Him”, is in His presence. Here is the easiest thing to get God’s reply; hereby the mistake is almost impossible. His presence implies and contains state of love, peace and calm, may be, tears of purification, consecration and anointing, absence of strange thoughts in mind, concentration on God. Such a conscious is a blank page, sanctified for accepting God’s words to you. Here the qualitative fellowship with God may occur, hearing of Him.
Honor, glory and praise be to The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit. Grace is with all of us. Amen.
About hierarchy
Praise be to Jesus Christ – The Highest King of kings! Hallelujah! Holy is our
God! Even so, amen.
God is the God of order and arrangement. And if we see and know that external, temporary set-up and system exist then we know that God arranges even internal, invisible, eternal things. (Heb11:3)
Spirit, word and substance-energy (E=mc2) – this is an organization of the Universe, perfected by God.
Hierarchy (arrangement, order, principle of authority) – these are levels of de-merger and generalization of concepts (spirits, ideas, words-“vessels”) by (according to) one key core sign-principle.
E.g., word (idea) “flower” is a generalizing word (concept) for word “tulip”, “rose”, “hyacinth”. And for words “flower”, “grass”, “tree” there is a generalizing word – “plant”.
So, a principle of levels is presented, according to which, moving in any sphere, one can distinguish spirits (words, ideas) of different range, establishing correlation of hierarchy between them.
Spirit (idea), expressed by word is a unique being, both without a beginning and endless. If one tries to disclose a sense (spirit) of any word with a determinate cognitive definition, than a row of secondary, tertiary etc. definitions rises.
E.g., “an engine – it is a device for coming smth into operation”. Let us imagine an asking child, and then his following question is to be: “What is a “device”, “coming” and “operation”? Giving definitions of these concepts by other words, introducing new terms, new waves of questions and definitions are born. By the man’s mind this process doesn’t converge to some several “basic words-axioms”, which could determine everything. But all the words appear to be expressed by means of each other, because they form just a finite number.
The word is a self-being, alive and perfect expression of corresponding spirit-idea.
Within this coherence of words, mutually expressing themselves, a full God’s arrangement-principle reigns, though it is hard for man to seize all the majesty of these internal relations, mutually fastening the Word (spirit-idea of word).
Catch here an analogy with the Church. The Church in spiritual world is a cognitive definition of Jesus Christ. i.e. God. We, ones, who believe in Christ, proclaiming truth with our lives and mouths, are God’s definition and expression.
1Jn2:23-25
Whosoever denies the Son, the same hath not the Father: but he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.
Ze12:8
In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.
So what is on the top of all the levels of generalization, of all the concepts-ideas-spirits? What sign (mark) may be common for all the objects, beings, all possible things, which are so various?
There are three main “ideas-axioms”, “concepts”, “categories”, among which one may reckon everything in the universe.
The first one is endless, eternal, without a beginning, infinite fullness, absolute everything – this is the Father God.
The second one is finite, limited, having the beginning and end alpha and omega – this is the Son of God.
The third one is emptiness, zero, absence, absolute point, nothing – this is the Holy Spirit.
Here is God, Existing above everything. God is both the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. 1Jn5:20, Rev1:8, 2Cor6:18.
This is Core, Center and Head. For a carnal man it is impossible to explain something, operating with just these three concepts. But to those, who are to inherit a salvation, the Holy Ghost and holy angels serve, translating and transferring to a man those Words, spoken by the Trinity.
…”The core of Trinity doctrine is the reality of triune Godhead – God lives in fellowship and relationship with Himself” (Unknown author).
“ This Divine and endless Entity contents three personalities: the Father, the Word (or Son) and the Holy Spirit. They are one in their essence, power and eternity, and Each has the fullness of divine essence, however, this essence is indivisible: the Father is born by no one and doesn’t proceed from someone, the Son is eternally born from the Father, The Holy spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son; all Three are endless and limitless, they have not any beginning and, thus, are one God, Which cannot be divided by the substance and being, but they are distinguishable by their special comparative qualities and personal relationships; this Trinity doctrine is the base of all our communication with God and our dependence on Him, giving us rest and comfort.” BAPTISTS’ CLAIM OS FAITH (1689).
About the Trinity
Honor be to You, Holy Lord, Your mercy abides forever! We rejoice of You, Happy Bridegroom! We love You, God of abundance! Your fear keeps us safe in the way, the jealous God! Your goodness in to our salvation! Hallelujah!
FIRST OF ALL, the one God, Which is the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit, they are three divine PERSONALITIES. Further, here is just a mechanism, arrangement. This is not the main thing, but an important one. The main thing is that God is love.
God revealed Himself to the whole creation in three different personalities: The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. The nature of all of Three is One, but personalities are different, with different characters, will, thoughts, emotions.
“… God is both one God and three Personalities, having one essence and three Personalities” CONTEMPORARY INTERPRETATION OF THE BAPTISTS’ CLAIM OF FAITH OF 1689
Let us analyze it with an example of human being, which is an image and likeness of God. All the people has the same nature – a man, it’s unchangeable. But how many clearly distinguishable personalities are among them? All they are. The man’s personality is contained in his spirit; it is expressed in his soul and body. Man’s self-actualization de
finitely correlates one’s ego with the body’s appearance in mirror, what feelings and memories the soul has, and what the relationships with God in spirit are. If just one of three components is substantially changed or is exposed to a great influence, then all the man’s personality changes.All three parts of man are in an uninterruptible connection, forming the personality. Depending on which abilities, talents, qualities are engendered by God and are developed by man, a person is formed.
So and these Three bring testimony about one essence of God (1Jn5:8) through three Personality, being in mysterious, but understandable by revelation from above, unity. Depending on the aim and destination one may bring you some water either in a basin to wash the feet, or in a cup to drink, or in a pot to prepare a meal. So God represents Himself in these three personalities, depending on the aim of this presentation of Him to us. One divine nature is shown by means of infinite, finite and zero forms and corresponding personalities.
Tertullian (early 200's)
That this rule of faith has come down to us from the beginning of the
gospel…. All are of One, by unity of substance, while the mystery of the dispensation is still kept,
which distributes the unity into a trinity, placing in their order the three persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit: three, however, not in condition, but in degree, not in substance, but in form, not in power, but in aspect, yet of one substance, and of one condition, and of one power, inasmuch as He is one God, from whom these degrees and forms and aspects are reckoned, under the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. (Against Praxeas, 2).
Tertullian explained, “We define that there are two, the Father and the Son, and three with the Holy Spirit, and this number is made by the pattern of salvation… They are three, not in dignity, but in degree, not in substance but in form, not in power but in kind. They are of one substance and power, because there is one God from whom these degrees, forms and kinds devolve in the name of Father, Son and Holy Spirit.” (Adv. Prax. 23; PL 2.156-7).
To simplify the presentation of Trinity one may use symbols of dimensions and numerations: absolute point, zero – the Holy Spirit, closed interval, finite – Jesus, the Son of God, straight line, infinity – the Father God. The same technique is applicable to any number of dimensions of space and time, e.g., point, circle, plane. Further is a spirit’s (idea’s) presentation “S” and interpretation “P”.
S: A closed interval – is a line’s part.
P: Son is in Father.
An interval is an image and likeness of line, giving full representation of the line, its qualities and properties. As well, we, drawing the interval, when picturing a line, presume it’s prolongation to the infinity, the same way, when combining in ourselves The Son and the Spirit, we come to the Father.
At the same moment the interval is not a line itself, i.e. The Son, in the present aspect, is an image and likeness of God and He (interval) is less then the Father (line). The Son (interval) consists of the same composing points (the Holy Spirit) as the Father does (line), that’s why the Son can in absolutely right way and adequately present the Father. At the same time the Son is limited in a factual knowledge, i.e. He contains a limited volume of information, though potentially He knows everything, because He has the right of access to any information in the universe according to the Father’s will, but He accepts and reveals just that information, which is needed to Him for the Father’s plans performance. This is a gift of knowledge. This gift is not necessary for the Allmighty and Omniknowing Father, because He simultaneously keeps all the volume of information. If one turns to two dimensions: plane, circle and point – than where is a centre of an endless plane? It’s everywhere. So, God is not the God of disorder. He chose and assigned the centre of the earth in Jerusalem; in heavens He had established the throne as the centre. The same way, within Himself, prior to any creation, He appointed as the centre a Finite area (e.g. circle) among all possible variants. So He gave birth to the Son, put in Him His utter Wisdom and Glory, had predestinated for Him to reign above all the creation. The center of Christ and God is one – the Holy Ghost. All further finite creation was made by the Father by means of the Son, by the Endless by means of the Limited. Creating the substantial world after spiritual one, God limited it with a circle line, showing by this a submission of this world and its ownership to the Son (Para8:22-31). Howbeit, even spiritual world is submitted to Him, being also a finite one (Col1:16), thus, heavens of heavens don’t content the Endless, consequently, the heavens of heavens are finite (2Chron2:6). The Son is Allmighty and Omniknowing, The Highest and Omnipresent God in a potential aspect. The Father is in a real (both potential and kinetic, simultaneously) aspect, permanent one. The Holy Spirit is in an instant kinetic aspect. The Holy Spirit is proclaimed to be a Spirit of both God and Christ, and it is true, and is evident from above. The Father and the Son have one heart, core, center, which is the Holy Spirit, living in us, those, who are redeemed. What an honor and joy!!! (Ze2:8)
S: If one looks at this line (with an interval within it) from the side, then one sees a point. I.e. an orthogonal plane projection of the line and the interval are equal and are a point. The interval consists of infinite quantity of points, and the line consists of infinite quantity of points.
P: In the Holy Spirit the Son and the Father are one (by quality and quantity of content).
“I and my Father are one” (Jn10:30)
«For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace» (Isaiah 9:6).
Athenagoras (ca. 175 A.D)
And, the Son being in the Father and the Father in the Son, in oneness and power of Spirit, the knowledge and Word of the Father is the Son of God.
Tertullian (early 200's)
We have been taught that he proceeds forth from God, and in that procession he is generated
[ begotten], so that he is the Son of God, and is called “God” from unity of substance with God. For God, too,is Spirit. Even when the ray is shot from the sun, it is still part of the parent mass, the sun will still be in the ray, because it is a ray of the sun–there is no division of substance, but merely an extension. Thus Christ is spirit of the Spirit, and god of the God, as light of Light is kindled. The material matrix remains entire and unimpaired, though you derive from it any number of shoots possessed of its qualities; so, too, that which has come forth out of God is at once “God” and the Son of God, and the two are one. In this way also, as he is Spirit of the Spirit and God of the God, He is made second in manner of existence, in position, not in nature, and He did not withdraw from the original source, but went forth.
S: The infinite in the interval is represented by the quantity of points.
P: The Father is in the Son. Jesus is filled with the Holy Spirit (Col2:9)
S: The line is greater than the interval.
P: The Father is greater than the Son.
Tertullian (early 200's)
For the Father is the entire substance, but the Son is a derivation and portion of the whole, as he himself
confesses, “My Father is greater than I.” In the Psalm his inferiority is described as being “a little lower than the angels.” Thus the Father is distinct from the Son, being greater than the Son, inasmuch as He who begets is one, and he who is begotten is another. He, too, wh
o sends is one, and he who is sent is another, and He, again, who makes is one, and he through whom the thing is made is another. (Against Praxeas, 9).The interval is a sample (probe) of the line, its image.
S: Finite number divided into infinite number equates zero. The ratio of finite to infinite is zero.
P: 1)The Father of spirits (points, as it is any spirit) created everything by Christ (Jn1:3, Col1:16, Heb1:1,2, Prov8:22-30).
Hermas (ca. 100 A.D)
Hermas acknowledged one God who created all things by his powerful word and great wisdom.
“First, believe that there is one God who created and framed all things, and made all things out of
nothing. (Commands, 1)./) The God of powers, who by his invisible mighty power and great wisdom has created the world, and by His
glorious counsel has beautified his creation, and by his powerful word has fixed the heavens and laid the
foundations of the earth upon the waters. (Visions, 1, 3)”
Tertullian (early 200's)
The object of our worship is the One God, He who by His commanding Word, His arranging Wisdom,
His Mighty Power, brought forth out of nothing the entire substance of our world, with all its array of elements, bodies, spirits, for the glory of His majesty, whence also the Greeks have given it the name of kosmos. (Apology, 17).
2) When Jesus had arisen in front of the Father with His redeeming sacrifice for us in the heavenly temple, then the Holy Spirit was poured out into us, those who had believed.
Act.2:32 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
3) The Church is a definition of Jesus Christ, pronounced by the Father God, i.e. the Holy Spirit is into the Church, the Bride, than she is identified with the Holy Spirit, i.e. her symbol is “zero”.
4) Relation of the Son to the Father is a respect to the uttermost self-humiliation, self-nullifying (Phil2:8-11).
S: Zero, multiplied by infinity, equates to finite.
P: 1) The God Father and the Holy Ghost gave birth to Christ (and us in Him) before any creature (Col1:15)
2) Jesus is paternal fullness of the Holy Spirit.
3) Christ is fullness of the One, filling all in all.
S: The finite, divided by zero, equates to infinity.
P: 1) The marriage of the Lamb and the Bride will produce eternal expression of the Father God.
2) The Son of God, which is in the bosom (The Holy Ghost, centre) of the Father, he has declared Father.
3) The Holy Spirit leads us by the Way, Truth and Life – Christ to the Father in heaven.
4) Christ through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God (Heb9:14)
5) Oh, how endless and full of love relationships of Christ and His Church are!
S: Infinite, divided by finite, equates to infinity.
P: 1) Father is God for the Son – Jesus.
2) God is even God for Himself and He can not break His Word (Heb6:13)
S: Infinite is greater then finite and zero.
P: Subordination by essence: they are First – the Father, Second – the Son, and Third – the Holy Spirit – Personalities of Trinity.
S: Finite, divided by (infinite, multiplied by zero) equates to one.
P: Trinity dwells in the deepest and most perfect oneness of hearts and accord.
Let’s think about what is the distance between two nearest absolute point? Response – it is one and the same point, otherwise there is no uninterruptible state. The finite interval of the least length, consisting of infinity of points, is the point.
One point contains in itself the endlessness of points. God is all in all. In order to create substantial thing, it is necessary to release (by means of the Word of God’s faith) the infinity of points (definition, line or interval), which is contained in one point (spirit, idea). This is a movement within Trinity. These are transitions of God’s self-consciousness between his own expressions – hypostasis, experiencing of one, two or three states simultaneously.
If one looks at finite from the endlessness, then it is zero. The Spirit breaths wherever He wants. What obstacle one can settle for a moving point?
The Holy Spirit abides in permanent movement with a limitless speed, renewing and maintaining the entire universe by His Word of power each moment, He is now and here. The Son is free. The Father is unchanging, He fills everything, He is everywhere and always (Jer23:24).
Thus, let’s praise even Him and let’s obey to the Lord, Who is the Legislator of Love and the Judge of Freedom. Amen.
Hi and welcome,
You say:
“FIRST OF ALL, the one God, Which is the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit, they are three divine PERSONALITIES. Further, here is just a mechanism, arrangement. This is not the main thing, but an important one. The main thing is that God is love.
God revealed Himself to the whole creation in three different personalities: The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. The nature of all of Three is One, but personalities are different, with different characters, will, thoughts, emotions.
Here is God, Existing above everything. God is both the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. 1Jn5:20, Rev1:8, 2Cor6:18.”
This is Core, Center and Head. For a carnal man it is impossible to explain something, operating with just these three concepts. But to those, who are to inherit a salvation, the Holy Ghost and holy angels serve, translating and transferring to a man those Words, spoken by the Trinity.
This is a movement within Trinity. These are transitions of God’s self-consciousness between his own expressions – hypostasis, experiencing of one, two or three states simultaneously
…”The core of Trinity doctrine is the reality of triune Godhead – God lives in fellowship and relationship with Himself” (Unknown author).
“ This Divine and endless Entity contents three personalities: the Father, the Word (or Son) and the Holy Spirit. They are one in their essence, power and eternity, and Each has the fullness of divine essence, however, this essence is indivisible: the Father is born by no one and doesn’t proceed from someone, the Son is eternally born from the Father, The Holy spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son; all Three are endless and limitless, they have not any beginning and, thus, are one God, Which cannot be divided by the substance and being, but they are distinguishable by their special comparative qualities and personal relationships; this Trinity doctrine is the base of all our communication with God and our dependence on Him, giving us rest and comfort.” BAPTISTS’ CLAIM OS FAITH (1689).”
“… God is both one God and three Personalities, having one essence and three Personalities” CONTEMPORARY INTERPRETATION OF THE BAPTISTS’ CLAIM OF FAITH OF 1689″We say:
Pretty words but from the puny mind of men.God is ONE
God has a SON
God sends His Spirit to fill the Son and all in the Son that they may be one in Him.These things can be shown from scripture without addition to what is written
Hi K,
You have shown us evidence of the great apostasy. Tertullian was one of the architects of trinity. He and others decided revelation was not complete at the death of the apostles and decided new teachings that go beyond that of Christ were OK.He promulgated the theory from Satan that tore the major part body of Christ from the head leaving only a remnant few to hold fast to the truth of the Word of God.
Here man begins to say that Jesus is not really the Son of God but only “an extension of God”. God said he was His Son and I prefer that evidence and also that of the apostles and prophets that he really IS the SON of God.
Your quote:
“Tertullian (early 200's)We have been taught that he proceeds forth from God, and in that procession he is generated
[ begotten], so that he is the Son of God, and is called “God” from unity of substance with God. For God, too,is Spirit. Even when the ray is shot from the sun, it is still part of the parent mass, the sun will still be in the ray, because it is a ray of the sun–there is no division of substance, but merely an extension. Thus Christ is spirit of the Spirit, and god of the God, as light of Light is kindled. The material matrix remains entire and unimpaired, though you derive from it any number of shoots possessed of its qualities; so, too, that which has come forth out of God is at once “God” and the Son of God, and the two are one. In this way also, as he is Spirit of the Spirit and God of the God, He is made second in manner of existence, in position, not in nature, and He did not withdraw from the original source, but went forth.”
This is from Tertullian too showing his double tongued confusion:
Tertullian (early 200's)
“For the Father is the entire substance, but the Son is a derivation and portion of the whole, as he himself
confesses, “My Father is greater than I.” In the Psalm his inferiority is described as being “a little lower than the angels.” Thus the Father is distinct from the Son, being greater than the Son, inasmuch as He who begets is one, and he who is begotten is another. He, too, who sends is one, and he who is sent is another, and He, again, who makes is one, and he through whom the thing is made is another. (Against Praxeas, 9).”Hi K,
Your words;
“Vessels of spirit are following: a word, a human being, a number or a figure, music, an image, a symbol, a doing, a sign, a situation, a picture and another…”
The most perfect vessel of spirit is word. The Word of God contains in Himself the Idea of God, the one about what the Holy Spirit is. The Word is spirit and life. The spirit (“pneuma”), just like a breath, coming out with air, gives birth to a word.”Do not forget the vessel we follow, that of Christ. He was for us the example of a vessel for the Spirit of God and that velssel was broken for us that we might live[Ps 31.12]
2Cor.5
” God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself”We too “have this treasure in earthen vessels”.
Hi K,
Your words:
“Let us analyze it with an example of human being, which is an image and likeness of God. All the people has the same nature – a man, it’s unchangeable. But how many clearly distinguishable personalities are among them? All they are. The man’s personality is contained in his spirit; it is expressed in his soul and body. Man’s self-actualization definitely correlates one’s ego with the body’s appearance in mirror, what feelings and memories the soul has, and what the relationships with God in spirit are. If just one of three components is substantially changed or is exposed to a great influence, then all the man’s personality changes.All three parts of man are in an uninterruptible connection, forming the personality. Depending on which abilities, talents, qualities are engendered by God and are developed by man, a person is formed.
So and these Three bring testimony about one essence of God (1Jn5:8) through three Personality, being in mysterious, but understandable by revelation from above, unity. Depending on the aim and destination one may bring you some water either in a basin to wash the feet, or in a cup to drink, or in a pot to prepare a meal. So God represents Himself in these three personalities, depending on the aim of this presentation of Him to us. One divine nature is shown by means of infinite, finite and zero forms and corresponding personalities.”My view:
A million, million personalities among men throughout history makes no sensible comparison with God and his Son and their sharing in the Spirit of God.God is spirit and His personality shown in His son never changes because God never changes. Jesus revealed the nature and power of God as God's Spirit living fully in him, to men in his submitted vessel.
That unity was by continual choice and Jesus never lost his own will as shown in the garden, and had his own life spirit which left him at death.
Quote (heaven @ June 13 2006,00:59) There are a lot of discussions on the topic of the Trinity doctrine in the 'Biblical Discussions' forum. Would it be a good idea to create a Trinity forum under SCRIPTURE & DOCTRINE category say between the 'Biblical Discussions' and 'Other Writings' forums. If most think that a seperate forum is in order, then I can move all existing discussions related to the Trinity doctrine to it.
Have your say.
Thx
Hi I am new here. Came looking for discussion on the subject of the Trinity. Took me awhile to find some of the many. Would be great if there was a separate section/category titled Trinity as you suggest, from my point of view anyway, for what it is worth. Elidad.Welcome and thanks for your feedback Elidad.
In the end the “Truth or Tradition?” forum was created instead of one dedicated entirely to the Trinity. Along with discussions on the Trinity, other popular doctrines that people think are inferred in scripture, like Oneness are included.
Thanks for your input.
HI t8.
I was wondering how hard it would be to make it so that instead of having to leaf through pages, you could have a box where we just type in a page number. I know this really only becomes an issue in the one large trinity thread, and probably isn't really an issue for most people. But as the threads grow, it may become more of an issue. If I happen to know that I want to read something on page 250 of the trinity thread, it would be easier just to type that number into a box. This really isn't a big thing and most probably don't care, but I”m wondering how hard it would be to add.david
It is all a matter of faith. No one has perfect knowledge. Trinity Doctrine as false? That is up to you. Pray about it to God. God has perfect knowledge.
Hi Jill,
Are we not blessed to have the bible as our resource for truth.But only men teach the trinity theory about God and it is not written in the bible.
So whom should we believe and follow?
Quote (Dunno @ June 26 2006,14:32) Quote (t8 @ June 26 2006,07:44) Thanks Nick. Hi dunno. Like the name
Hi! T8Ummm, first of all … the origin of my NickName was essentially a hurried one. I was asked to offer a UserName when Registering in these Forums and so I replied with the stammering way of saying, “Don't know” … thus, “Dunno”.
Thank you for your explanation with regards to the position of the 'Trinity Doctrine' in this Forum. Sad to say: the belief system(s) and thoughtworlds which have arisen in the Church by those who subscribe to the theories supporting the 'Trinity Doctrine' have proven to be a suffocating millstone around the necks of many sincere Christians. This false teaching has been responsible for untold millions of 'spiritual abortions' over the centuries because it succeeds in denying the ultimate purposes of God with man and abandons the intrinsic confession of God's intent of “bringing many sons unto glory”.
I must say that I greatly admire your courage to openly contend against the false teaching and in such a bold and unwavering manner too. I have also been much blessed to note that your discussions of the matter are gentle and patiently kind and this is a wonderful testimony to the godly posture of your heart and mind.
If you don't mind, I have yet another question:
I notice that there are numerous references in these Forums which use the terms, “Kingdom of Heaven” and “Kingdom of God”. This has given me much curiosity as to what your understanding of these terms might be.Thanks!
Hi,
Highlighting satan's greatest myth masquerading as truth and deceiving millions in every generation may help support it's vain basis but at least it brings the darkness to face light.Quote (david @ July 31 2006,08:27) HI t8.
I was wondering how hard it would be to make it so that instead of having to leaf through pages, you could have a box where we just type in a page number. I know this really only becomes an issue in the one large trinity thread, and probably isn't really an issue for most people. But as the threads grow, it may become more of an issue. If I happen to know that I want to read something on page 250 of the trinity thread, it would be easier just to type that number into a box. This really isn't a big thing and most probably don't care, but I”m wondering how hard it would be to add.david
Hi david.That would be a really useful feature but it would also be very difficult to implement.
At the moment the pages are dynamic and are created after 10 posts, a setting I chose but can change easily.
Affixing a page number would require a different philosophy in the code in that 10 posts would need to be fixed (not changeable) and other complex code implimented as well. It would also require a URL (address) that was logical (predictable) and then that would inadvertently allow spammers an easier way to automate spam to the board. When the URLs are unpredictable, they have to post the usual way because they cannot predict the URL required to make a post for example.The other reason for not doing it is that it would stop the database from working in other BB packages.
Currently the Board is using a package called Ikonboard, but I can input the database into other packages like Invision Board if I decide to upgrade later on.So if the code deviated too much, I would be stuck with it forever and would have to do my own upgrades which would be a good learning experience, but not really worth the effort.
Features that I can implement must already be a feature in the code that I can turn on or hack. But to create something from scratch is difficult as it can also have adverse affects on other code.
A good idea and something that may be available in the future in future compatible upgrades.
In saying that there may be a easy solution to implementing such a feature using a simpler language like JavaScript.
The BB is written in Pearl which is a language that is compatible with JavaScript. But at the moment I cannot see how I could do it that way.
I might figure it out further down the track though.
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