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Hi,
Acts 20.29
“I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock;and FROM AMONG YOUR OWN SELVES men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. Therefore be on the alert..”
1Jn 2.19
” They went out from us, but they were not really of us;for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out in order that it might be shown that they are not of us”Hi,
The arrival of trinity theory coincided with the merging of the young church with the world, under Constantine's evil interfering influence and it led to apostasy and the establishment of the false church. It was Satan's greatest triumph and it has warped understanding since then of the things of God.Hi,
Some have questioned the baptismal basis of Acts in comparison with Matt 28.19. There is some info here and also if you do a search on this verse on the web there is more.Nick,
Where can I read about Constantine? When was Trinity formed and developed? Why people believe in the Trinity? Why did Jesus say I will be with you till the end of ages.. and that when 2 or 3 are gathered He will be there?Quote (pris @ Dec. 03 2005,15:08) Nick,
Where can I read about Constantine? When was Trinity formed and developed? Why people believe in the Trinity? Why did Jesus say I will be with you till the end of ages.. and that when 2 or 3 are gathered He will be there?
Hi and welcome pris,
If you do internet word searches on Constantine, Arius, Athanasius and Trinity you will find plenty to work with.Jesus indeed with be with his people till the end and whenever two or three are gathered in his name he will be with them.These promises are made to those who are in him and not the world.
But who are the members of the body of Christ?
How does one join the body of Christ?The answers to these questions are in the discussion between Jesus and Nicodemus and John 10. The are in the words of Peter to the assembled crowds at Pentecost and shown throughout the book of Acts.
Wolves have come among the sheep and confused and devoured them. Men no longer fear God and do not respect the Word. They have devised ways that seem right in their eyes and now they are not even being saved, which was the first reason for the gospel being given to us.
False teachers have led men from the safe path into pits of folly. False religion thrives but faith and true knowledge is cast aside. Dangerous and foolish speculations have become orthodoxy and now true searchers are condemned as heretics.
“Seek ye first the kingdom of God and everything else will be added to you.”
I hope the first post on trinitarism is reread by newcomers. Also I hope that this information has been helpful to Christians seeking answers.
Quote (liljon @ Dec. 05 2005,21:13) there are many false things on the internet so be careful in researching info
Hi liljon,
There are far greater dangers among those who claim to speak for Christ.
They lie and want to rob you of salvation.Don't fear the truth-it will set you free.
How can a person come to know the truth when they dont know the difference between an opinion or fact. Many times I have given the facts about different subjects, and still people say that is your opinion. Unless a person says to themselves, I want to know what the truth is even if it displeases me; only then can a person come to know the truth. Our own bibles say that the word of God would be tampered with. Those prophecies have been fulfilled.
Quote (MichaelTheeArchAngel @ Dec. 09 2005,18:53) How can a person come to know the truth when they dont know the difference between an opinion or fact. Many times I have given the facts about different subjects, and still people say that is your opinion. Unless a person says to themselves, I want to know what the truth is even if it displeases me; only then can a person come to know the truth. Our own bibles say that the word of God would be tampered with. Those prophecies have been fulfilled.
What scripture is that, and Jesus said,”Heaven and earth would pass away, but His Word abides for ever. Man may tamper with translations of God's Word.Hisultan,
Such as the appalling New World Translation. It even suggests death saves us through automatic forgiveness for all! What evil doctrine.I know some feel that there are additions and alterations to what has come to be known as the word of God. Personally I don't feel Matt 28:19 supports the Trinity doctrine any more that Jh1:1 or the verses in Genesis that say “let us make man in our own image…” It is matter of interpretation.
Matt 28:19 says in the name not names.
The name is Jesus Christ or Lord Jesus. or Lord Jesus Christ.
Father is not a name. is is a title that denotes a role.
Son likewise is not a name. Neither is Holy Spirt.
Father and Holy Spirit are evidently the same person or Jesus has 2 Fathers.
Son is evidently not the same person as Father.
The next question is how can they both have the same name.
Jesus himself said He came in His Father's name.
Can a son bear the same name as his fathere? sure – I know of plenty of instances of this.
Does it make the son the same person?Hi Malcolm,
Good points.
No matter what trinity skulduggery and sleight of hand tries to reveal it cannot let the Son be a true Son of God.
If so he would have his own being and that would deny he shared the being of a Godly trinity.
A being has life in himself.
What does scripture say about the Son?
Is he a being with life in himself or is “Son” only a label to distinguish him as God on earth?Jn 5.26
“For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son to have life in himself”Choose this day whom you will follow. The teachings of God or foolish men.
Quote (Sultan @ Dec. 10 2005,23:44) Quote (MichaelTheeArchAngel @ Dec. 09 2005,18:53) How can a person come to know the truth when they dont know the difference between an opinion or fact. Many times I have given the facts about different subjects, and still people say that is your opinion. Unless a person says to themselves, I want to know what the truth is even if it displeases me; only then can a person come to know the truth. Our own bibles say that the word of God would be tampered with. Those prophecies have been fulfilled.
What scripture is that, and Jesus said,”Heaven and earth would pass away, but His Word abides for ever. Man may tamper with translations of God's Word.
Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.
Obviously God considered man capable of “changing things,” including the Biblical text. Not to mention the Roman Church has a rather extensive history of “rewriting/altering” the texts to suit themselves.
Also regarding the “trinity,” let us not forget that Jesus DIED, and it was GOD who resurrected him……I don't think this makes them “equal!!” Never mind all the verses where Christ himself stated very clearly that the Father was GREATER than he.
Roman 10:9 That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
John 14:28 “You heard that I said to you, ‘I go away, and I will come to you.’ If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced, because I go to the Father; for the Father is greater than I,'”
Amen truebelief4u,
When the leaders ascribed truth only to themselves and the rest were called 'laity' men stopped following Jesus. When man's need to be in control stopped the works of power of the Spirit among christians God took His leave. What was left of the body had no head, was according to the minds of natural men, took on pious religious directions that no longer had any relevance, and was thus rebellious and dead.I am doing some study on the early church and the differences that Christianity had with the Jews. In their arguements I find that there is no mention of a Trinity at all. Maybe this was because there was no TRINITY at this point.
Can anyone tell me if the Jews and early Christian (Jews)* in Jerusalem who worshipped in the synagogues, read the Torah, kept the Jewish customs and feasts ever fought about JESUS being God.
*(Jews who had accepted Christ as Messiah, that is what they were – not a new movement or religion but Jews who believed that they had found the Messiah, the fullfilment of the Law and Prophets… Acts 2.
After the Temple was destroyed – The destruction of the temple in AD 70, brought an end to Jewish Christianity with its base in Jerusalem and it moved to Rome, as well as Antioch and other Roman centres. Changes in doctrine and simple truth began to slowly creep in… It is interesting to note that many of the Roman god's had “come down and taken on human form”. A number of religions in that time held that of a Triad of Gods, not the one God in three person or three in One God the Christians developed over time and now worship. I find it interesting: both the differences and yet similarities and why Jesus as Lord became Jesus as God – in a time where Three God's were worshipped. Sounds like a compromise between the culture of the day and the original religion set up by the Lord.
I can see that the Jews fought over doctrines of law and religious rites, over Jewish Orthodoxy but never over the Deity of Christ or the fact that he was God incarnate nor the One True God… that was to happen later – According to WHC Frend. – He writes: Jesus was Lord (Maran). He was not worshiped as God as he would be in the Hellenistic churches in the next Century).
Does anyone know of any writings where the Apostles and the Jews during this time actually debated a Trinity, the Incarnation of the God Man, eternal Son taking on human from or even the Virgin Birth etc and actually spoke of it in this manner. I can see it begins to surface later on in Church history along with many other thoughts and adaptions into Greek thinking, human ideologies and both Roman and Greek mythology… but some may know of other sources I do not know to show that this is not so.
There seems to be nothing NEW in Christianity in its early conception apart from the addition of the Messiah and his message. ie: Phillip went about preaching the gospel of the Kingdom and the Name of the Lord. Acts 8, Peters address does not mention any difference in religion, apart from calling the Jews accept Jesus as their Messiah. God was still God, Jesus the Man appointed by God, at his ressurection became Lord and Christ but was never God. Acts 2
Anyway… I found it interesting that the discussion of God being Three in One was not brought up or debated by the Jews and the Christians – seeing as the Jews are strictly Monotheistic. I am sure they would be at odds over it and would have brought this up in debate or accusation somewhere.
Quote (Artizan007 @ May 26 2006,13:58) Does anyone know of any writings where the Apostles and the Jews during this time actually debated a Trinity, the Incarnation of the God Man, eternal Son taking on human from or even the Virgin Birth etc and actually spoke of it in this manner. I can see it begins to surface later on in Church history along with many other thoughts and adaptions into Greek thinking, human ideologies and both Roman and Greek mythology… but some may know of other sources I do not know to show that this is not so.
Very good point (virigin birth is legit though)Quote (Artizan007 @ May 26 2006,13:58) There seems to be nothing NEW in Christianity in its early conception apart from the addition of the Messiah and his message. ie: Phillip went about preaching the gospel of the Kingdom and the Name of the Lord. Acts 8, Peters address does not mention any difference in religion, apart from calling the Jews accept Jesus as their Messiah. God was still God, Jesus the Man appointed by God, at his ressurection became Lord and Christ but was never God. Acts 2
Yup, it was the exact same gospel that had been preached to Abraham (Gal 3:8); everything traces back to the promises to Abraham.HI A7,
The apostles, including Paul, manifested only the Spirit of Christ fully among them and their teaching was as his. Thus no suggestion of new doctrine emerges . Only when the yeast of the Pharisees and other yeasts enteres the bread did such evil arise. They should have known that the teaching of Christ was, in all it's biblical fulness, the end of doctrine and not gone onto new and false trails. In so doing they made themselves, in their intellectual vanity, greater than Christ and set themselves against God Himself.
Yes Mary was a virgin. It is nesessary for it to be so and to challenge that teaching is to cast doubt on scripture itself and the Spirit who wrote it through men. Some do and would cast aside John's books, and lacerate scripture by removing or allegorising what is inconvenient.
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