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Gene said:
Quote thinker……..again you misquote It does not say Jesus in all and through all it says (Christ) that is the anointing (which is from GOD the FATHER. It is the anointing of HOLY Spirit that makes us and Jesus in union with the FATHER. It is the same Spirit that was given Jesus, it is the Same Spirit given us also. “let this mind be in you that was (ALSO) in Christ Jesus our lord, and if this mind be in you (IT) shall (ALSO) quicken your Mortal bodies” . As (IT) did HIS thinker. Gene,
Tell us the difference between being “in all” and “all in all.”thinker
Thinker ………Big difference , One says ONE being is in all, while the others says all beings are in all. A confusing statement at best, if you understood that (ONLY ONE GOD) who IS SPIRIT can indwell ALL , but all can not indwell HIM , HOLY SPIRIT is the common denominator between GOD and US and JESUS. Jesus and all who have Holy Spirit are indwelt by GOD. But that does (NOT) Make them a GOD as the LYING Trinitarians say. My point had nothing to do with the word (in all), It had to do with the word CHRIST used in the Scripture and you changing it to read JESUS, which is not written in the text. You are probably one of those that Believe that where it says that “Christ was the Rock that was following Israel in the wilderness” ; that this is referencing Jesus when in fact it is not, it is referencing the (ANOINTING)or SPIRIT of GOD from the ONLY ROCK, GOD the FATHER. Thinker come out of those false teachings and everything will fall into place for you, the day star will rise in your heart brother, and you will delight yourself in the LORD GOD and the lord Jesus also. IMO
peace and love brother…………………….gene
Irene,
You were so adament about the fact that LORD in all caps in the Old Testament meant something. Then I come back with proof that your interpretations were false and you do not give me a counter response. I will assume that you have no argument on this issue, seeing as what I said makes more sense than you care to admit.
TC27
Quote (thethinker @ July 30 2009,20:42) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 30 2009,15:41) Hi all Shall I go a little further. Most of the feeding of the hungry, the healing of the sick, the feeding the sheep, the providing of shelters, the preaching of the word of God, providing clothing, the leading men to Christ, the taking care of the destitute, lonely, drug attics, alcaholics, sexually abused children, and on and on is done by Trinitarian works and not by those who have seprerated themselves from his people because they do no agree with the Trinity doctrine.
Just ask everyone on this sight if it was a Trinitarian ministry that lead them to Jesus and you will see what I mean.
Why is it that those who are led to Jesus leave that Jesus to accept another Jesus?
WJ
EXACTLY! And one of the reasons for this is that God showed Himself the example by coming down to our level and becoming one of us. He became immanent. The God of anti-trinitarians is not immanent.thinker
Hi thethinker:No, not true, but God's attributes are manifest through the the life of Jesus as he obeyed the Word of God.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (Gene @ July 31 2009,02:50) Thinker ………Big difference , One says ONE being is in all, while the others says all beings are in all. A confusing statement at best, if you understood that (ONLY ONE GOD) who IS SPIRIT can indwell ALL , but all can not indwell HIM , HOLY SPIRIT is the common denominator between GOD and US and JESUS. Jesus and all who have Holy Spirit are indwelt by GOD. But that does (NOT) Make them a GOD as the LYING Trinitarians say. My point had nothing to do with the word (in all), It had to do with the word CHRIST used in the Scripture and you changing it to read JESUS, which is not written in the text. You are probably one of those that Believe that where it says that “Christ was the Rock that was following Israel in the wilderness” ; that this is referencing Jesus when in fact it is not, it is referencing the (ANOINTING)or SPIRIT of GOD from the ONLY ROCK, GOD the FATHER. Thinker come out of those false teachings and everything will fall into place for you, the day star will rise in your heart brother, and you will delight yourself in the LORD GOD and the lord Jesus also. IMO peace and love brother…………………….gene
Gene,
The very end of your post betrays you and shows that you are not a Christian. You referred to Jesus as “lord” putting Him on the same level as other men. Anathema! Please do not refer to me as your “brother” again. Jesus is not “lord” as other men. He is the Lord and the King.Btw, Christ is “in all” too.
Quote Christ IN YOU the hope of glory (Colossians 1:27) We are NOT brothers!
thinker
Quote (942767 @ July 31 2009,09:39) Quote (thethinker @ July 30 2009,20:42) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 30 2009,15:41) Hi all Shall I go a little further. Most of the feeding of the hungry, the healing of the sick, the feeding the sheep, the providing of shelters, the preaching of the word of God, providing clothing, the leading men to Christ, the taking care of the destitute, lonely, drug attics, alcaholics, sexually abused children, and on and on is done by Trinitarian works and not by those who have seprerated themselves from his people because they do no agree with the Trinity doctrine.
Just ask everyone on this sight if it was a Trinitarian ministry that lead them to Jesus and you will see what I mean.
Why is it that those who are led to Jesus leave that Jesus to accept another Jesus?
WJ
EXACTLY! And one of the reasons for this is that God showed Himself the example by coming down to our level and becoming one of us. He became immanent. The God of anti-trinitarians is not immanent.thinker
Hi thethinker:No, not true, but God's attributes are manifest through the the life of Jesus as he obeyed the Word of God.
Love in Christ,
Marty
But Jesus was the one who was immanent and not God. You can't have it both ways. You can't say that God is immanent and at the same time deny that He can become flesh. The greatest strength of Trinitarianism is that it allows for God to be immanent. The god of anti-trinitarians cannot come down to us. This is pure Gnosticism.thinker
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 31 2009,10:03) Hi TT,
God has visited His people within the vessel of His Son.
That's not immanence Nick.thinker
Quote (Gene @ July 30 2009,10:50)
Thinker ………Big difference , One says ONE being is in all, while the others says all beings are in all. A confusing statement at best, if you understood that (ONLY ONE GOD) who IS SPIRIT can indwell ALL , but all can not indwell HIM , HOLY SPIRIT is the common denominator between GOD and US and JESUS. Jesus and all who have Holy Spirit are indwelt by GOD. But that does (NOT) Make them a GOD as the LYING Trinitarians say. My point had nothing to do with the word (in all), It had to do with the word CHRIST used in the Scripture and you changing it to read JESUS, which is not written in the text. You are probably one of those that Believe that where it says that “Christ was the Rock that was following Israel in the wilderness” ; that this is referencing Jesus when in fact it is not, it is referencing the (ANOINTING)or SPIRIT of GOD from the ONLY ROCK, GOD the FATHER. Thinker come out of those false teachings and everything will fall into place for you, the day star will rise in your heart brother, and you will delight yourself in the LORD GOD and the lord Jesus also. IMOpeace and love brother…………………….gene
Hi GeneQuote (Gene @ July 30 2009,10:50) It had to do with the word CHRIST used in the Scripture and you changing it to read JESUS, which is not written in the text. You are probably one of those that Believe that where it says that “Christ was the Rock that was following Israel in the wilderness” ; that this is referencing Jesus when in fact it is not, it is referencing the (ANOINTING)or SPIRIT of GOD from the ONLY ROCK, GOD the FATHER. OK Gene lets just check your facts out.
Strong's G5547 – Christos Which means;
Christ = “anointed”
1) Christ was the Messiah, the Son of God
2) anointed
So is the Holy Spirit anointed?
But if you cannot believe Strong that it means the Messiah who was annointed then lets look at the scriptures and see how the word “Christos” is used.
And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ. Matt 1:16
Here we see the Holy Spirit through Mattew calling Jesus the “Christos” anointed, or Messiah.
Now when John had heard in the prison the works of Christ, he sent two of his disciples, Matt 11:2
Here we see John the Baptist calling Jesus the “Christos”, anointed one or Messiah.
And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. Matt 16:16
Here we see the Father through Peter calling Jesus the “Christos” the anointed one, or Messiah!
Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, [The Son] of David. Matt 22:42
Here we see Jesus calling himself the “Christos” the anointed one, or Messiah.
For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. Luke 2:11
Here we see Luke by the Holy Spirit calling Jesus the “Christos”, the anointed one, Messiah!
He first findeth his own brother Simon, and saith unto him, We have found the Messias, which is, being interpreted, the Christ. John 1:41
Here we see Andrew the brother of Peter calling Jesus the Messiah which is being interpreted “Christos”.
But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. John 20:31
Here we see the Apostle John under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit calling Jesus the “Christos”.
Gene I could go on for 569 verses that refer to Jesus as The Christ” “Jesus Christ”, “Lord Christ”, “Christ Jesus” Or Just Christ and in every case they are refering to Jesus the anointed one, or Messiah.
Go ahead and type “Christ” in Strongs and check them out for yourself. I did, I went through all of them.
See if you can find once that “Christos” means Holy Spirit or see if you can find once that “Christos” is used in any other way except given to Jesus.
So who is “LYING” about the word “Christos” Gene?
Quote (Gene @ July 30 2009,10:50) Jesus and all who have Holy Spirit are indwelt by GOD. But that does (NOT) Make them a GOD as the LYING Trinitarians say.
And who is LYING here Gene? When has a Trinitarian claimed that because we have the Holy Spirit in us that makes us God?Then after calling Jack a Liar and bearing false witness against him you have the nerve to say…
Quote (Gene @ July 30 2009,10:50) peace and love brother…………………….gene
WJ
Quote (thethinker @ July 31 2009,10:00) Quote (942767 @ July 31 2009,09:39) Quote (thethinker @ July 30 2009,20:42) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 30 2009,15:41) Hi all Shall I go a little further. Most of the feeding of the hungry, the healing of the sick, the feeding the sheep, the providing of shelters, the preaching of the word of God, providing clothing, the leading men to Christ, the taking care of the destitute, lonely, drug attics, alcaholics, sexually abused children, and on and on is done by Trinitarian works and not by those who have seprerated themselves from his people because they do no agree with the Trinity doctrine.
Just ask everyone on this sight if it was a Trinitarian ministry that lead them to Jesus and you will see what I mean.
Why is it that those who are led to Jesus leave that Jesus to accept another Jesus?
WJ
EXACTLY! And one of the reasons for this is that God showed Himself the example by coming down to our level and becoming one of us. He became immanent. The God of anti-trinitarians is not immanent.thinker
Hi thethinker:No, not true, but God's attributes are manifest through the the life of Jesus as he obeyed the Word of God.
Love in Christ,
Marty
But Jesus was the one who was immanent and not God. You can't have it both ways. You can't say that God is immanent and at the same time deny that He can become flesh. The greatest strength of Trinitarianism is that it allows for God to be immanent. The god of anti-trinitarians cannot come down to us. This is pure Gnosticism.thinker
Hi thethinker:God is a Spirit.
Quote Jhn 4:24 God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth. God was in Christ:
Quote 2Cr 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. Jesus stated that we who have seen him have seen the Father:
Quote Jhn 14:7 ¶ If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Jhn 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Jhn 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the Father?
Jhn 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Jhn 14:11 Believe me that I [am] in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.God made man in his own image:
Quote Hbr 1:1 ¶ God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Hbr 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Hbr 1:3 Who being the brightness of [his] glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;Quote 1Cr 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit. I don't see how this can be any clearer.
Love in Christ,
MatyHi Marty
Quote (942767 @ July 30 2009,19:21)
Jesus stated that we who have seen him have seen the Father:And what does the word Father translate to you! God right?
So in other words Jesus is saying…
Jhn 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen God; and how sayest thou then, Shew us God?
WJ
Hi Marty
Quote (942767 @ July 30 2009,19:21) 1Cr 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit.
I don't see how this can be any clearer.Love in Christ,
MatyNotice the brackets [was made], that means it is not in the original text.
A better rendering of the verse is…
The Scriptures tell us, “The first man, Adam, became a living person.”* But the last Adam–that is, Christ–is a life-giving Spirit. NLT
Which confirms that Jesus was the way the Truth and the Life. Also he said that he was the resurrection and the life, not that he will be the resurection and the life!
John also says that he was the “Eternal Life” that was with the Father. 1 John 1:1-3
I realize this flies in the face of the Unitarians, but let the scriptures speak.
Blessings WJ
Quote (TrinitarianCalvinist27 @ July 31 2009,04:03) Irene, You were so adament about the fact that LORD in all caps in the Old Testament meant something. Then I come back with proof that your interpretations were false and you do not give me a counter response. I will assume that you have no argument on this issue, seeing as what I said makes more sense than you care to admit.
TC27
I do not come on here every fuve minutes and e if you would quote me, I would see where I said what I did and I would give you an answer.
IreneQuote (thethinker @ July 30 2009,11:36) Quote (Cindy @ July 30 2009,11:13) Quote (thethinker @ July 25 2009,20:29) Quote (Not3in1 @ July 25 2009,17:50) “Fully” God, “fully” man. Words have completely lost their meaning!
Jehovah said “I will become who I am becoming”, Exodus 3:14.http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/exo3.pdf
Jehovah had become a fire in the midst of a burning bush when He said this. If He can do this, then He may certainly become something made in His own image. He is immanent!
Anti-trinitarianism major flaw is that it holds that God is so transcendent that He cannot become immanent. God could not become a man so He had to send a man. This implies that God Himself cannot know first hand how we feel.
thinker
thinker God Himself never became a man. And yes Jesus became a man. But He was with the Father before His Birth as a Man.
He is the firstborn of all creation and was a Spirit Being until He was born a man. I know not all believe in the preexisting of Jesus. But that is according to Scripture in
Col 1:15, John 1:14, Rev. 3:14 and I might add that He created all.
Peace and Love Irene
Irene,
Your views are not Christian. When you disowned Catholicism you threw out the baby with the bathwater. The doctrines of the trinity and the incarnation are Christian doctrines. Therefore, anti-trinitarians and Gnostics who deny the incarnation of God are anti-Christian. I have been patient. Bodhitharta says i am going to hell. What nerve coming from a man who denies that jesus was crucified. Gene says I am an idolater and you have said that I am ungodly. So it's no more Mr. Nice Guy here. Your views are anti-Christian.thinker
And where did I say that you are Ungodly? That is not like me, to call a person a name. And if I did show me where and I will apologize! And do you then think I should have stayed in the Catholic Church, even though I don;t believe their teaching anymore. That to me would be Hypocritical.
Peace and Love IreneQuote (WorshippingJesus @ July 31 2009,11:33) Hi Marty Quote (942767 @ July 30 2009,19:21)
Jesus stated that we who have seen him have seen the Father:And what does the word Father translate to you! God right?
So in other words Jesus is saying…
Jhn 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen God; and how sayest thou then, Shew us God?
WJ
Hi Brother:Yes, brother we have seen God through the works of obedience that Jesus did in obedience to God our Father, and yes, Jesus is God in that he is the express image of God's person, but no, he is not God in the sence that the trinity teaches.
Quote Jhn 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. People should also be seeing God manifest in our lives through the works of obedience that we are doing also.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ July 30 2009,20:45) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 31 2009,11:33) Hi Marty Quote (942767 @ July 30 2009,19:21)
Jesus stated that we who have seen him have seen the Father:And what does the word Father translate to you! God right?
So in other words Jesus is saying…
Jhn 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen God; and how sayest thou then, Shew us God?
WJ
Hi Brother:Yes, brother we have seen God through the works of obedience that Jesus did in obedience to God our Father, and yes, Jesus is God in that he is the express image of God's person, but no, he is not God in the sence that the trinity teaches.
Quote Jhn 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. People should also be seeing God manifest in our lives through the works of obedience that we are doing also.
Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyDo you go around saying if you know me you know God and if you see me you see God?
Do you know of an Apostle or Prophet or Angel anywhere in the scritpures that made such a claim?
His words are very selective and not meant to be watered down as you just did
Jesus is the Image of the invisible God. In other words he is God made visible. We bear his Image, but he is the Image by which we bear.
We are a light, but he is the “True Light” that is in us!
We are new born Spirits, but he is the Spirit in us!
We preach the Gospel of God, But he is the one we preach!
We lay hands on the sick that they may be healed, but he is the Healer!
We have “eternal life” but he is the “Eternal Life”!
We have the baptism of the Spirit and fire, but he is the baptiser of the Spirit and fire!
We are to feed the flock of God, but he is the “Good Shepard”!
We are in Gods hands, but it is in Jesus hand that we are!
We lead others in the way, but he is the Way!
We teach others the truth, but he is the Truth!
We have recieved life, but he is the life!
We eat the bread of life (the Word), but he is the bread of life, (the Word)!
We shall be resurrected, but he is the resurrection, and shall raise all that hear his voice!
We have power with God, but he has all authority and power!
Can't you see that Jesus is the source of everything that you are and have?
“By him all things consist”!
Blessings WJ
Quote (thethinker @ July 30 2009,10:16) Quote (Lightenup @ July 30 2009,22:16) Quote (thethinker @ July 30 2009,04:39) Lightenup said to WJ: Quote Do you understand that many were in trinitarian churches when they realized that the doctrine wasn't what they felt as Biblical. Kathi,
I was led to Christ by two former JW's. It happens both ways. So let's just stick to Scripture.thinker
Ok Thinker…there ya go,
Let's just stick to scripture. Show me these terms in scripture:
trinity
triune
three-in-one
first person
second person
third person
co-eternal
co-equalThey are not to be found so now what? Do you want to now add extra-Biblical revelations and add words to the Bible? Because that is what you are doing ya know. like “covenental God” where do you find that term? You should really see what a person believes if they use merely the language of the Bible and become aware of the simple way God is explained by Jesus.
Kathi
Kathi,
Neither is it said that God “reproduced.” Yet you infer this. Right?thinker
Thinker,
But it DOES say that his origins are from ancient times and that He is the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON and that He is the same yesterday, today and forever. Reproduction brings sons to life. It is not hard. The Supernatural reproduces another supernatural. The most High designed reproduction and you think He couldn't reproduce? The natural man reproduces another natural man. Simple!Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 31 2009,11:43) Hi Marty Quote (942767 @ July 30 2009,19:21) 1Cr 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit.
I don't see how this can be any clearer.Love in Christ,
MatyNotice the brackets [was made], that means it is not in the original text.
A better rendering of the verse is…
The Scriptures tell us, “The first man, Adam, became a living person.”* But the last Adam–that is, Christ–is a life-giving Spirit. NLT
Which confirms that Jesus was the way the Truth and the Life. Also he said that he was the resurrection and the life, not that he will be the resurection and the life!
John also says that he was the “Eternal Life” that was with the Father. 1 John 1:1-3
I realize this flies in the face of the Unitarians, but let the scriptures speak.
Blessings WJ
Hi Brother:Obviously, those who translated the KJV thought that what they put in brackets added clarity to what was being said even though it is not in the original.
And I also believe that Jesus was made a life giving spirit as he learned to apply the Word of God in his daily life.
I believe that the following scripture would support this as well:
Quote Hbr 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
Hbr 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
Hbr 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;Love in Christ,
Marty
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