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Quote (Gene @ July 29 2009,03:03) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 28 2009,03:52) Quote (Cindy @ July 26 2009,18:39) It is so easy to understand when you can see that the Word God is a tittle. God the Father who is above had another name Jehovah God. And of course Jesus who was the Word who became flesh. When you see it that way, there is no trinity. Scripture teaches us so, that the Father is greater then the Son. Jesus own word. Remember that God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. I say that because some might say that after He died for us, He became equal to the Father.
Not according to the Bible.
Peace and Love Irene
IreneScriptures teach there is only “One True God” therfore all others are false.
So is Jesus a “false god” or is he “True God”?
WJ
WJ…………Good question , lets see what Jesus says, “FOR THOU ART THE (ONLY) TRUE GOD”. Bingo, there is your answer.
Now TRINITARIANS need to figure what (THOU) and (ONLY) means, WITHOUT TWISTING THIS PLANE STATEMENT BY JESUS.peace and love……………..gene
Gene,
And 1 John 5:20 says that Jesus Christ is the “true God and eternal life. Bingo! Anti-Christians need to figure what this means WITHOUT TWISTING THIS PLAIN STATEMENT BY JOHN. Trinitarians do not deny what Jesus said. But anti-Christians deny what John said.Trinitarians believe ALL the scriptures. Anti-Christians pick and choose the scriptures they like and don't like.
thinker
Quote (Gene @ July 29 2009,03:03) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 28 2009,03:52) Quote (Cindy @ July 26 2009,18:39) It is so easy to understand when you can see that the Word God is a tittle. God the Father who is above had another name Jehovah God. And of course Jesus who was the Word who became flesh. When you see it that way, there is no trinity. Scripture teaches us so, that the Father is greater then the Son. Jesus own word. Remember that God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. I say that because some might say that after He died for us, He became equal to the Father.
Not according to the Bible.
Peace and Love Irene
IreneScriptures teach there is only “One True God” therfore all others are false.
So is Jesus a “false god” or is he “True God”?
WJ
WJ…………Good question , lets see what Jesus says, “FOR THOU ART THE (ONLY) TRUE GOD”. Bingo, there is your answer.
Now TRINITARIANS need to figure what (THOU) and (ONLY) means, WITHOUT TWISTING THIS PLANE STATEMENT BY JESUS.peace and love……………..gene
So Jesus is a false god? thinker
Quote (Gene @ July 28 2009,11:03) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 28 2009,03:52) Quote (Cindy @ July 26 2009,18:39) It is so easy to understand when you can see that the Word God is a tittle. God the Father who is above had another name Jehovah God. And of course Jesus who was the Word who became flesh. When you see it that way, there is no trinity. Scripture teaches us so, that the Father is greater then the Son. Jesus own word. Remember that God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. I say that because some might say that after He died for us, He became equal to the Father.
Not according to the Bible.
Peace and Love Irene
IreneScriptures teach there is only “One True God” therfore all others are false.
So is Jesus a “false god” or is he “True God”?
WJ
WJ…………Good question , lets see what Jesus says, “FOR THOU ART THE (ONLY) TRUE GOD”. Bingo, there is your answer.
Now TRINITARIANS need to figure what (THOU) and (ONLY) means, WITHOUT TWISTING THIS PLANE STATEMENT BY JESUS.peace and love……………..gene
Hi Genewhile we wait for the blessed hope–”the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, Titus 2:13
Bingo! So Jesus is our great God and Savior like Thomas and John and Peter confessed!
So now is Jesus True God or false?
Get your white out for this one. I accept all the scriptures how about you?
WJ
Hi Guys,
So with these two scriptures you plan to prove that Jesus is not who he said he is, the Son of God?
What are your chances?Hi all,
There is one true always existing God (the Father) and one true begotten God (the Son). The begotten God says that He has a God more than once and even after His exaltation.Here it is before His exaltation:
Joh 20:17
Jesus said to her, “Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, `I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.' ”Here it is after His exaltation:
Re 3:12
He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name.God's love,
KathiQuote (Lightenup @ July 29 2009,01:07) Hi all,
There is one true always existing God (the Father) and one true begotten God (the Son). The begotten God says that He has a God more than once and even after His exaltation.Here it is before His exaltation:
Joh 20:17
Jesus said to her, “Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, `I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.' ”Here it is after His exaltation:
Re 3:12
He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name.God's love,
Kathi
KathiSo what does that prove? That we have a big God and a little god.
Jesus calls the Father God because of his manhood!
That simple. Jesus Spiritual nature is no less than the Father and to see him as such is idolatry.
Now maybe you can show us a scripture where Jesus called the Father God before he came in the flesh!
You cannot have two masters or lords or gods!
Again, your lonely NASB Translation is a poor translation of John 1:18, the only place in the NT that is translated that way.
Paul, John, Thomas, Luke and Peter nowhere calls Jesus a begotten god!
WJ
Lightenup said:
Quote There is one true always existing God (the Father) and one true begotten God (the Son). The begotten God says that He has a God more than once and even after His exaltation. To All,
Kathi is unconsciously substituting the word “Lord” for “God” in her mind. Jesus never said “My Lord” when He referred to the Father. He said that “My God.” This simply means that He has a covenantal relationship with the Father. Jesus NEVER called the Father His “Lord.”For instance, Jehovah was Lord over Ishmael but not his God because he did not have a covenantal relationship with Jehovah.
thinker
Hi TT,
So Jesus had a covenatal relationship with God?
So he was never that God.Where is this covenant written with God, his Father?
Are you a son of God too?
Nick,
On another thread you said:Quote Hi TT,
LORD means GOD?
You have lost touch with sound scriptural understanding. (July 26: 08:44)You meant that Lord does not mean God. Therefore, when Jesus said of the Father “My God” He did NOT mean “My Lord.”
Btw, God indeed made a covenant with Christ (Galatians 3:17).
thinker
Hi TT,
When were you given permission to add to scripture?
I guess when you adopted a false trinity theology as your basis you felt free to do whatever you like?Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 29 2009,20:41) Hi TT,
When were you given permission to add to scripture?
I guess when you adopted a false trinity theology as your basis you felt free to do whatever you like?
Nick,
You said that “Lord” does not mean “God.” Did you not say this? So when Jesus said of the Father “My God” He did not mean “My Sovereign.” You said that “Lord” does not mean “God.”God was Christ's Father and NOT His Lord just as you are your son's father and NOT his sovereign. Jesus has been exalted as King of kings and Lord of lords. Therefore, He has no sovereign over Him.
thinker
To ALL……….Anyone who has more then (ONE) TRUE GOD, is an IDOLATER PERIOD. And no IDOLATER has the SPIRIT of GOD in them. Jesus Had a GOD and said 'FOR THOU ART THE (ONLY) TRUE GOD” , even if there were no other scriptures to support this, it would be enough for those who have the spirit of GOD in them, but there are Hundreds of place that show there is only (ONE) GOD and we even Have GOD (OWN) Words that tell us that. 'YOU SHALL HAVE (NO) OTHER GOD BESIDES ME” , But these abrasion Trinitarian teachings whose teachings stem from gnostic and Pagan practices of many GOD'S have created an Apostate Religion. They are bold and argue against the words of God himself, because GOD has sent to them a (deluding) Spirit enabling them to believe the LIE. Turning Jesus int a GOD is only turning Him into THE MAN OF SIN, which he will abolish completely by his own mouth when he return. 2 Ths 2, Show us this false teaching clearly , for those who have eves to see and ears to hear. IMO
peace and lov eto you all………………………….gene
Gene said:
Quote To ALL……….Anyone who has more then (ONE) TRUE GOD, is an IDOLATER PERIOD. And no IDOLATER has the SPIRIT of GOD in them.
Then the apostle John was an idolater and did not have the Spirit in him. He said that Jesus Christ is the “True God and eternal life” (1 John 5:20). Jesus called the Father His God but not His Lord. Jesus is King of kings and Lord of lords. He has a God. But He has no sovereign over Him. Anti-trinitarians say that Lord does not mean God. Therefore, when Jesus said “My God” He did NOT mean “My Lord.”If anti-trinitarians insist that Lord does not mean God then they should live with the implications.
thinker
Gene and thinker! I am so amazed that some just don't want to understand no matter what you put in front of them. God, LORD, Almighty God, Almighty Father, Heavenly Father. All tittles. So Jesus the Word, Jesus the Lord, and Son of God. That is why Jehovah God is called Heavenly Father, and we are His adopted Sons of our Heavenly Father. Why do we call our Fathers, Father? Is it not because you had something to do with that? Jesus came forth from the Father or Jehovah God.
Notice that there is LORD and Lord. The difference is LORD is the Father God and Lord is the Son of God. When you understand all of that, you will not have any problems. Also let us not forget who is greater, the Son or the Father? In Jesus own words He said that ” My Father is greater then I.”
John 14:28
Why would John said that if it was not so. And I believe that is why you have the difference ways of saying Lord and LORD, and Father and Son God. The Son is a begotten Sob of God and we need to realize that there is a difference. Who do we pray to? Is it not God the Father through Jesus Christ our Mediator? When we understand all of that, we also know that there is no trinity.
I used to believe in the trinity and changing is not easy, I do understand that. And I used to pray and I sometimes still do to give me wisdom to understand the truth.
Peace and Love IreneQuote (Cindy @ July 30 2009,03:56) Gene and thinker! I am so amazed that some just don't want to understand no matter what you put in front of them. God, LORD, Almighty God, Almighty Father, Heavenly Father. All tittles. So Jesus the Word, Jesus the Lord, and Son of God. That is why Jehovah God is called Heavenly Father, and we are His adopted Sons of our Heavenly Father. Why do we call our Fathers, Father? Is it not because you had something to do with that? Jesus came forth from the Father or Jehovah God.
Notice that there is LORD and Lord. The difference is LORD is the Father God and Lord is the Son of God. When you understand all of that, you will not have any problems.
Peace and Love Irene
Irene,
Jesus' Father is never called His King or Lord. My father is not my king or lord.thinker
Quote (thethinker @ July 30 2009,04:20) Quote (Cindy @ July 30 2009,03:56) Gene and thinker! I am so amazed that some just don't want to understand no matter what you put in front of them. God, LORD, Almighty God, Almighty Father, Heavenly Father. All tittles. So Jesus the Word, Jesus the Lord, and Son of God. That is why Jehovah God is called Heavenly Father, and we are His adopted Sons of our Heavenly Father. Why do we call our Fathers, Father? Is it not because you had something to do with that? Jesus came forth from the Father or Jehovah God.
Notice that there is LORD and Lord. The difference is LORD is the Father God and Lord is the Son of God. When you understand all of that, you will not have any problems.
Peace and Love Irene
Irene,
Jesus' Father is never called His King or Lord. My father is not my king or lord.thinker
thinker I just read my Post again and I did not say that the Father is King of Kings andLord of Lords. I said that the Father is LORD in capital Letters and Lord is Jesus. The Father is not called the King of Kings.
Read it again.
IreneQuote (Cindy @ July 29 2009,08:57) Quote (thethinker @ July 30 2009,04:20) Quote (Cindy @ July 30 2009,03:56) Gene and thinker! I am so amazed that some just don't want to understand no matter what you put in front of them. God, LORD, Almighty God, Almighty Father, Heavenly Father. All tittles. So Jesus the Word, Jesus the Lord, and Son of God. That is why Jehovah God is called Heavenly Father, and we are His adopted Sons of our Heavenly Father. Why do we call our Fathers, Father? Is it not because you had something to do with that? Jesus came forth from the Father or Jehovah God.
Notice that there is LORD and Lord. The difference is LORD is the Father God and Lord is the Son of God. When you understand all of that, you will not have any problems.
Peace and Love Irene
Irene,
Jesus' Father is never called His King or Lord. My father is not my king or lord.thinker
thinker I just read my Post again and I did not say that the Father is King of Kings andLord of Lords. I said that the Father is LORD in capital Letters and Lord is Jesus. The Father is not called the King of Kings.
Read it again.
Irene
Irene,Do you really think that capital letters make a difference? Has it ever occured to you that the LORD capitalized in the Old Testament was referring to translation differences? In Hebrew, YAHWEH was the word for God. In the Old Testament, every time you see the word “LORD” in all caps it is a translation directly for YAHWEH. Now, history must be taken into account when we look at the New Testament where Jesus is called “Lord.” At that time in history, the name YAHWEH was too sacred to say aloud, at least according to the Jews. So they substituted the YAHWEH for Adonai. Adonai means Lord.
Dictionary.com:
Quote A⋅do⋅nai /Seph. ˌɑdɔˈnaɪ; Ashk. ˌɑdoʊˈnɔɪ/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [Seph. ah-daw-nahy; Ashk. ah-doh-noi] Show IPA Use Adonai in a Sentence
–noun Hebrew. a title of reverence for God, serving also as a substitute pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton.Also, A⋅do⋅noy /ˌɑdoʊˈnɔɪ/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ah-doh-noi] Show IPA .
——————————————————————————–
Origin:
lit., my Lord; spoken in place of the ineffable name Yahwehn. Lord. Used in Judaism as a spoken substitute for the ineffable name of God.
[Hebrew 'ādônāy, my lord : 'ādôn, lord; see d in Semitic roots + -ay, my.]
So the fact that Jesus was called Lord by the Jews proves that he was God because they could not speak YAHWEH since it was too sacred to speak. So they substituted it for Adonai, which is Hebrew for Lord. So in the Old Testament, LORD is capitalized to represent a translation of YAHWEH, and in the New Testament, Lord is used to represent a translation of Adonai.
Irene, you only hurt yourself by bringing up the topic of capitalization, because that does not hurt the trinitarian belief at all.
Here is a site to check out.
http://www.studychurchhistory.com/Tetragrammaton.htm
Quote Let’s say that you are reading the Old Testament and come to Psalms 95:1: “Come, let us sing for joy to the LORD; let us shout aloud to the Rock of our salvation.” Notice anything odd about that verse? The word “LORD” is in all capitals. In fact, “LORD” in all capital letters appears more than 6000 times in the Old Testament. But why? To find the beginning of the answer we have to travel back to Moses and the Burning Bush. (Exodus 3:1-4:17) Moses sees a light on the side of a mountain and goes to investigate. Once there, God speaks to Moses. God tells Moses he is to lead the Israelites out of Egypt. Then—and this is the key to knowing about LORD—Moses asks God for God’s name: God says his name is “I am.” In Hebrew this is “Yahweh.”
Now, I have long thought that this was one of the funniest verses in the Bible. Think about Moses’ view. The Israelites have been worshipping God for 500 years (since Abraham) and the whole time that they have been slaves (400 of those years) without knowing God’s name. Finally one of them, Moses, gets to ask God His name. And what does He say? “I am.” Moses was probably thinking, “I am what?” Moses might have been waiting on God to finish the sentence. He might have thought, “Is that the best God can do? I am? What kind of name is that?” But what was God trying to show with that name? Try this: make a sentence with action without using the verb “to be.” Examples: I am running, we are eating, they are reading. The verb “to be” is foundational to language. What God was showing was that He is foundational to existence. God is not a name, He Is and that is all. Nothing else needs to be added.
Now, we have the name of God and we understand its significance. Fast forward to Jesus’ time. By then, the Jews had developed the idea that God’s name was so holy that it could not be uttered. When Jews read from the Tanak (which Christians call the Old Testament) and got to the name of God, “Yahweh,” they would not pronounce “Yahweh” but would instead say “Adonai,” which means (you guessed it) “Lord.”
When the Old Testament was translated into English, the translators continued to signify the holiness of God’s name. So, when they got to Yahweh in the Old Testament, they wrote LORD instead. If you look through the Old Testament you will see lots of LORDs, over 6000. In each case, the original Hebrew says “Yahweh” but it is translated “LORD.”
You can actually write Yahweh in Hebrew by using your Bible. Psalm 119 is the longest chapter in the Bible, and it is also divided into sections of eight verses per section. And each section begins with a letter of the Hebrew alphabet. [Not every Bible is divided in this way. If yours is not, check a different translation. The NIV and King James are divided this way.] I can spell out the name of God in Hebrew, “Yahweh,” using Psalm 119. This is how it works. I will give the verse and you can look right above that verse and see a letter of the Hebrew alphabet. Before we get started let me say these two things: In Hebrew, “Yahweh” only uses four letters, and Hebrew is written from right-to-left (English is from left-to-right). Here we go: look above verse 73 and you will see a Yodh, look over verse 33 and you will see a He, look over verse 41 and you will see a Waw, look over verse 33 again and see the He. So from right-to-left write those letters: Yodh, He, Waw, He. That is Yahweh in Hebrew.
TC27
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