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Quote 1 Samuel 10:1
Then Samuel took a flask of oil and poured it on Saul’s head and kissed him, saying, “Has not the LORD anointed you leader over his inheritance?
Think, Kathi, think! Must I list all the other scriptures that speak of all the others JEHOVAH anointed? Do you agree that it was JEHOVAH who anointed Saul? Or do you think that by pouring the oil on his head and making the anointing MANIFEST to the others, that Samuel himself was the one who anointed Saul as King of Israel?But thank you for at least admitting the sender is greater than the one sent.
So it doesn't really matter if you claim the Father is only greater “because He's the Father”, or if you claim the Father is greater because He is the One who wears the blue pajamas. The fact of the matter is that the Father IS the GREATER of the two.
So much for your two EQUAL “mighty Gods” who form into One ALMIGHTY GOD. Because if the fact that the Father is GREATER than the Son shows the very premise of your theory to be flawed, the rest of that theory must also be discarded.
And now that two of your “YES” answers are actually “YES”, and you've stopped playing games, maybe you could address my post again with the accurate answers. If you do that at the same time you leave out ANYTHING at all that has to do with your imagination instead of scriptural teaching, you'd be stopped in your tracks.
But you won't. Your answer will remain that Paul was calling them both “deity”, even though that isn't said or even implied in the scripture. And if you are going to be like Keith and be willing to just claim things off the top of your wish-list, whether they are in the scriptures or not, then why should I bother?
Mike,
It is absolutely significant what greater and lessor means. I think they merely mean one is greater in His position in the relationship as Father, not greater in regards to nature. Therefore both are equally mighty God in nature. The Son is not equally the begetter, nor is He equally the Father and the Father is not equally the begotten nor is He equally the Son. But they are both equal in nature.Let's look at the 1 Cor 8 passage and see what Paul is talking about.
1Now concerning things sacrificed to idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge makes arrogant, but love edifies. 2If anyone supposes that he knows anything, he has not yet known as he ought to know; 3but if anyone loves God, he is known by Him.
4Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that there is no such thing as an idol in the world, and that there is no God but one. 5For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, 6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.
We can see that the chapter is talking about idols…idols are objects of worship as deity, correct? He goes on to say that there are so-called gods…many gods and many lords in heaven or on earth. Then Paul talks about who our objects of worship as deity are…one God the Father and one Lord, Jesus Christ.
Now you want to point out that is says that we have one God and that is the Father. Well, if that is meant to eliminate Jesus as our God also then calling Jesus our ONE Lord would eliminate the Father as our Lord also. That would mean that Jesus was the Lord of lords. Let's see what the Bible has to say about the Lord of lords:
Deut 10:17 For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible , which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward: 18 He doth execute the judgment of the fatherless and widow, and loveth the stranger, in giving him food and raiment. 19 Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt. 20 Thou shalt fear the LORD thy God; him shalt thou serve , and to him shalt thou cleave , and swear by his name. 21 He is thy praise, and he is thy God, that hath done for thee these great and terrible things , which thine eyes have seen . 22 Thy fathers went down into Egypt with threescore and ten persons; and now the LORD thy God hath made thee as the stars of heaven for multitude.
According to 1 Cor 8:5 and Deut 10:17, Jehovah is the Father and the Son, if the Father is the one God and the Son is the one Lord. Jehovah is the God of gods (the Father according to 1 Cor 8:5) and the Lord of lords (Jesus Christ according to 1 Cor 8:5).
Actually, I agree that Jehovah is the name for both but that is not my point here.
Psalm 136:1 O give thanks unto the LORD; for he is good: for his mercy endureth for ever. 2 O give thanks unto the God of gods: for his mercy endureth for ever. 3 O give thanks to the Lord of lords: for his mercy endureth for ever. 4 To him who alone doeth great wonders : for his mercy endureth for ever. 5 To him that by wisdom made the heavens: for his mercy endureth for ever. 6 To him that stretched out the earth above the waters: for his mercy endureth for ever. 7 To him that made great lights: for his mercy endureth for ever: 8 The sun to rule by day: for his mercy endureth for ever: 9 The moon and stars to rule by night: for his mercy endureth for ever. 10 To him that smote Egypt in their firstborn: for his mercy endureth for ever: 11 And brought out Israel from among them: for his mercy endureth for ever: 12 With a strong hand, and with a stretched out arm: for his mercy endureth for ever. 13 To him which divided the Red sea into parts: for his mercy endureth for ever: 14 And made Israel to pass through the midst of it: for his mercy endureth for ever: 15 But overthrew Pharaoh and his host in the Red sea: for his mercy endureth for ever. 16 To him which led his people through the wilderness: for his mercy endureth for ever. 17 To him which smote great kings: for his mercy endureth for ever: 18 And slew famous kings: for his mercy endureth for ever: 19 Sihon king of the Amorites: for his mercy endureth for ever: 20 And Og the king of Bashan: for his mercy endureth for ever: 21 And gave their land for an heritage: for his mercy endureth for ever: 22 Even an heritage unto Israel his servant: for his mercy endureth for ever. 23 Who remembered us in our low estate: for his mercy endureth for ever: 24 And hath redeemed us from our enemies: for his mercy endureth for ever. 25 Who giveth food to all flesh: for his mercy endureth for ever. 26 O give thanks unto the God of heaven: for his mercy endureth for ever.
Here again Jehovah is the name of the Father and the Son according to who is the one God and the one Lord in 1 Cor 8:5. Btw, look at all that is credited to the Jehovah that is both God of gods and Lord of lords.
1 Tim 6:14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: 15 Which in his times he shall shew , who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings , and Lord of lords ; 16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen , nor can see : to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
Now, according to 1 Cor 8:5…this Lord of lords would be no other than Jesus Christ our ONE Lord.
Rev 17:14
These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.That must be talking about Jesus Christ also, which it clearly is.
Revelation 19:16
And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written , KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.So, you can see that by claiming that Jesus is our ONE Lord, He is definitely considered Lord of lords and in the OT we see the the Lord of lords and the God of gods make up the Jehovah God. That would be the Father and the Son making up the Jehovah our God.
That should show you that Jesus is deity with the Father and the one Lord, Jesus Christ is nothing less than the one with the God of gods to be Jehovah our God.
Kathi
Kathi
Keep up the good fight for the Deity of Jesus. He truely is the “God and Savior” of all true believers!
WJ
Quote (Lightenup @ June 30 2011,01:44) Now, according to 1 Cor 8:5…this Lord of lords would be no other than Jesus Christ our ONE Lord. Rev 17:14
These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.That must be talking about Jesus Christ also, which it clearly is.
Revelation 19:16
And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written , KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.So, you can see that by claiming that Jesus is our ONE Lord, He is definitely considered Lord of lords and in the OT we see the the Lord of lords and the God of gods make up the Jehovah God. That would be the Father and the Son making up the Jehovah our God.
That should show you that Jesus is deity with the Father and the one Lord, Jesus Christ is nothing less than the one with the God of gods to be Jehovah our God.
Kathi
Hi KathiExcellent! The term “King of kings and Lord of lords” applied to Jesus is a divine title reserved for YHVH only.
The fact that Jesus is supreme ruler and sovereign over all the creation and that all things are in his hands and that he is the source of all things to the creation is all the proof any one should need to prove he is God!
The confession of every true believer should be Jesus is “My Lord and My God”. Jesus is “God with us”.
WJ
Quote (t8 @ June 29 2011,17:49) Quote (Lightenup @ June 30 2011,08:15) family man = man + his wife + their child
No time for a lengthy post now, but I will throw this in for now given that it will take a minute.Family is a unit/organisation made up of persons.
A family is not a HIM, but THEY.So like WJ, you need to address God as THEY to be consistent with your doctrine.
Yet in scripture we are told that there is one true God who is the Father and he is referred to as HE/HIM and not THEY/THEM and when you put yours or WJ idea of God into to the word God in scripture, it breaks it.
Be honest t8, because when you say “God is my Savior” then you should say “They are my Savior” since you can’t have a “Savior” without the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit.
But then of course you cannot say “God is my Savior” because you have many Saviors though the scriptures tell us we only have One Savior.
Again, be honest when you say “The Lord did this and that” you should say “They did this or that since the Father does nothing without the Son or the Holy Spirit.
Quote (t8 @ June 29 2011,17:49) e.g.,
Scripture:
For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son…T8:
For The Father so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son…
Once again be honest for you should say “For the Father so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son (theos/god) since you say…Quote (t8 @ June 14 2011,17:49) Actually I believe that Jesus is theos/god.
So that means that you believe and serve “the theos/god who sent “a theos/god” who by proxy is “a savior” to us, meaning you bow down to and serve more than “one theos/god” and “one savior”. That is totally unscriptural!
Look and see…
Thou shalt have “no other gods” (elohiym) before me. Exod 20:3
And…
“But I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt. “You shall acknowledge no God ('elohiym) but me, no Savior except me”. Hosea 13:4
And…
…and that “there is none other God (theos) but one“. 1 Cor 8:4
Your theology places another god (theos) before YHWH. You can’t say this is not true because you have admitted you cannot have YHWH without Jesus.
Quote (t8 @ June 29 2011,17:49)
WJ:
For The Father Son and Holy Spirit so loved the world that THEY gave THEIR only begotten son…
No! The Word that was with God and was God came in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin condemned sin in the flesh and is “The God and Savior” of all mankind since all things are in his hands and he is the source of all things to the creation!That is scriptural and not the many gods and saviors that you believe in and teach.
Quote (t8 @ June 29 2011,17:49) NOTE: this is true with the vast majority of scripture except where another God is mentioned such as the God of this world, or when theos is used in a qualitative sense.
You mean when you choose that theos/god is qualitative according to your theology and not according to its context.WJ
Thank you Keith!
I think the bulk of the problem on here is the inability of seeing the Almighty God as the Father who is with His Son and their Spirit. They think the Almighty God is the Father apart from His Son.
The equation that I have been using to write this is:
Almighty God our Father = The Father who is a mighty God + the Son who is a mighty God + their Spirit
On the left side of the equation we see one person who is the sum of the Father, Son and their Spirit…not as the three equal one person but the three make the one person who He is…the Almighty God our Father.
As an example, like I told Irene and Mike and what t8 commented on but totally missed:
a family man = a man + his wife + their child
On the left side of the equation we have one person summed up by the three on the right side, not because the wife and child are the family man but their existence with the man makes the man the family man.Almighty God = a Father + his Son + their Spirit
I think that when we are showing one savior the equation can be shown this way:
Almighty God our Savior = the Father who gave His Son + His Son who paid the price for our sins + their Spirit which seals the promise of redemption in us.
One is summed up in the existence of the three.
You keep up the good work too!
It's a jungle our there…
KathiQuote (Ed J @ June 28 2011,17:02) Hi WJ, Since “God The Father”(117) raised Jesus back to life (Gal.1:1), would that not make Him “The Savior”(117)? <–Please answer.
God The Father, who raised Jesus from the dead. (Gal.1:1)
Hi EdIt is laughable that you think that because Jesus died and rose from the dead that he is not “The Savior” since it is “through his death” that he saved us.
But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, ”who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel”: 2 Tim 1:10
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage”. Heb 2:14, 15
In the above scriptures Jesus “abolished death” and “destroyed him” who had the power of death and ”hath brought life and immortality” to his people.
This means Jesus is “The Savior” and not “a savior” by proxy!
Your point that because the Father raised Jesus from the dead means he is not “The Savior” is moot and brings up another one of those “Jesus is not God fallacies” that claims because Jesus died he cannot be God.
So to address that point soon I will be posting it in the “Anti-Jesus is God fallacies” thread!
WJ
Quote (Lightenup @ June 30 2011,11:45) You keep up the good work too! It's a jungle our there…
KathiTo say the least. It is Bizzaro world!
WJ
Quote (t8 @ June 30 2011,09:51) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 30 2011,09:10) Hi David, Ed and Irene. You have brought up another one of the Anti-Jesus is God fallacies which I will address tomorrow, until then goodnight and cudos. WJ
Before you do that, why not be honest and admit that you have 3 saviours. The Father, Son, and Spirit.Can you admit that you have 3 saviours?
No! You're the one who has three saviors. We have one Savior in three persons.The U.S. has one federal government in three branches which are the executive, legislative and the judicial. Our constitution does not say “three governments of the people by the people and for the people….”
Think plural unity for EVERYTHING is a plural unity.
KJ
Kathi wrote:
Quote Almighty God our Savior = the Father who gave His Son + His Son who paid the price for our sins + their Spirit which seals the promise of redemption in us. One is summed up in the existence of the three.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 01 2011,05:33) Quote (Ed J @ June 28 2011,17:02) Hi WJ, Since “God The Father”(117) raised Jesus back to life (Gal.1:1), would that not make Him “The Savior”(117)? <–Please answer.
God The Father, who raised Jesus from the dead. (Gal.1:1)
Hi EdIt is laughable that you think that because Jesus died and rose from the dead that he is not “The Savior” since it is “through his death” that he saved us.
But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, ”who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel”: 2 Tim 1:10
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage”. Heb 2:14, 15
In the above scriptures Jesus “abolished death” and “destroyed him” who had the power of death and ”hath brought life and immortality” to his people.
This means Jesus is “The Savior” and not “a savior” by proxy!
Your point that because the Father raised Jesus from the dead means he is not “The Savior” is moot and brings up another one of those “Jesus is not God fallacies” that claims because Jesus died he cannot be God.
So to address that point soon I will be posting it in the “Anti-Jesus is God fallacies” thread!
WJ
Hi WJ,“YHVH is GOD”=117 (Isaiah 45:5-6) and “The Savior”=117 (Isaiah 43:11)
Isaiah 43:11 I, even I, The LORD(YHVH); and beside me there is no savior.
Isaiah 45:5-6 I The LORD(YHVH), and there is none else, there is no God beside me:
I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: That they may know
from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me.
, and there is none else.For God(YHVH) so loved the world, that he(YHVH) gave his only begotten Son(Jesus),
that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. ~ John 3:16To wit, that God(YHVH) was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself,
not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed
unto us “The Word”(HolySpirit) of reconciliation.“YHVH is GOD”=117
PSALM 117 is [The Bible's Center Chapter], and
the [smallest chapter] of the [LARGEST BOOK]!Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH! (Psalm 45:17)
117=יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org …(Eccl.9:12-16)Ed
But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel”: 2 Tim 1:10
It is real simple, is Jesus your Savior or not?
WJ
Kathi wrote:
Quote It is absolutely significant what greater and lessor means. I think they merely mean one is greater in His position in the relationship as Father, not greater in regards to nature. Yes and even the lesser postion Chist had was the result of His own volition (Phil. 2). He did not have to LOWER HIMSELF.
KJ
Quote (Lightenup @ June 30 2011,00:44)
I think they merely mean one is greater in His position in the relationship as Father, not greater in regards to nature.
It doesn't really matter though, does it? If the Father is greater than Jesus in ANY RESPECT AT ALL, then you no longer have two EQUAL mighty gods who form one Almighty God. Do you not know what the word “EQUAL” means, Kathi?Take a human General and a foot soldier who is that General's SERVANT. Even though they are equally human, adding a SERVANT to the General doesn't change him from a “mighty General” to an “Almighty General”. The whole thought is absurd nonsense.
And you can't even RIGHTLY claim “equal in regards to nature”, for we are comparing One who is from eternity and unbegotten to one who had a beginning and was begotten. We are comparing one over whom death has never held power to one who died. We are comparing one who created all things to one who was the first OF that creation.
Quote (Lightenup @ June 30 2011,00:44)
He goes on to say that there are so-called gods…
No! Paul says no such thing. The phrases “so-called gods” and “false gods” do not exist in the scriptures. These phrases are the additions of later translators.What Paul says is that among the MANY gods IN HEAVEN and on earth, there is only ONE God for us – THE FATHER.
And of the MANY, MANY lords IN HEAVEN and on earth, our only Lord is the one that our only God exalted and placed as our Lord.
Kathi and Keith, WHY CAN'T YOU GUYS UNDERSTAND THAT OUR ONE GOD IS THE ONE WHO MADE JESUS OUR LORD?
That in itself sets “GOD” higher than “Lord” in this situation. Our one Lord has been GRANTED to sit at the right hand of our one God. What does that tell you? As far as “King of kings and Lord of lords”, both Nebuchadnezzar and Artaxerxes were also called “The King of kings”. Are they also deity? This is nothing but the “Same Name Game” that I've outlined in the Bizzaro thread.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 30 2011,08:56) The fact that Jesus is supreme ruler and sovereign over all the creation and that all things are in his hands and that he is the source of all things to the creation is all the proof any one should need to prove he is God!
Hi Keith,1. WHOSE creation does it say that Jesus rules over?
2. What scripture tell us that Jesus is “the source of all things”?
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 01 2011,10:52) Ed But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel”: 2 Tim 1:10
It is real simple, is Jesus your Savior or not?
WJ
Hi WJ,Of course! …what a great salvation our savior Jesus Christ has wrought for us!
Jesus’ authentic Name [יהשוע] YÄ-shü-ă has a direct connection to GOD’s name [יה]
in that YÄ is the first part of Jesus’ “REAL” name. GOD’s name (YÄ) is not vocalized in
the English translation of the name Jesus and therefore misses the precise exactness
and direct authentic connection to God’s Hebrew name [יה] YÄ. Jesus’ Name in Hebrew
יהשוע means: (“YÄ is salvation” [יה]+[ישע]=[יהשוע]) the salvation of [GOD the Father=117].
[יהשוע] “Jesus” REAL name authentically establishes [יהוה] “JEHOVAH” as the highest Name. (Psalm 83:18)(Phil. 2:9,11: Wherefore [Holy Spirit] has highly exalted [Jesus] giving Him a name which
is above every name, to the glory of [GOD The Father=117].) Neither is there salvation
in any other name: for there is no other name given among men (יהשוע), whereby we must
be saved. (Acts 4:12) People speaking fluent Hebrew know that in essence, [יהשוע] YÄ-shü-ă
means: “YÄ is Savior”. The Name of [GOD=26] is [יהוה=26] spoken as [YÄ=26]; and “YÄ-hä-vā”!“The Savior”=117 is “GOD The Father”=117, (117=”יהוה האלהים” YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL- ō-Hêêm)!
And He is “The Savior” to all who walk the ground! “JEHOVAH GOD”; and there is ‘NO’ other! (Isaiah 43:11)Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgHi WJ,
God has encoded his signature into the “AKJV Bible”. … (Link)
God's Signature
The Bible(63) → AKJV Bible(74)יהוה=26 (God's Name: YHVH pronounced YÄ-hä-vā)
YHVH=63 (God's Name יהוה translated into English)
Jesus=74 (God's Son's name in English is: “Joshua”)
HolySpirit=151 (“FATHER: The Word”: in all believers)
God The Father=117 (Representing “GOD”: יהוה האלהיםWitnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH! (Psalm 45:17)
117=יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org …(Eccl.9:12-16)Quote (Lightenup @ June 30 2011,10:45)
I think the bulk of the problem on here is the inability of seeing the Almighty God as the Father who is with His Son and their Spirit.
So are you now a Trinitarian, Kathi? Well, the road is wide enough for all of you.Quote (Lightenup @ June 30 2011,10:45)
They think the Almighty God is the Father apart from His Son.
Now what ever gave us that idea?1 Chronicles 17
7 “Now then, tell my servant David, ‘This is what the LORD Almighty says…………..11 When your days are over and you go to be with your fathers, I will raise up your offspring to succeed you, one of your own sons, and I will establish his kingdom.
13 I will be his father, and he will be my son.
14 I will set him over my house and my kingdom forever; his throne will be established forever.’”
The latter part of this passage is universally accepted as a Messianic prophecy. So, according to the new doctrine that you have fabricated, shouldn't the speaker be “YHWH mighty” instead of “YHWH Almighty“? Because it is clear that the One referred to as “Almighty” is the Father OF the one who will rule from David's throne forever, right? And since Jesus is not his own Son, there is no chance that the One who calls Himself “YHWH Almighty” is your combo God made up of the Father AND the Son, right?
Hmmm………….seems to me like the Father is Almighty all by Himself.
Kathi, this is just one of many scriptures that distinguish “God Almighty” or “Jehovah Almighty” as someone OTHER THAN Jesus.
Your theory is flawed. Please come out of her.
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 30 2011,17:57) Kathi wrote: Quote It is absolutely significant what greater and lessor means. I think they merely mean one is greater in His position in the relationship as Father, not greater in regards to nature. Yes and even the lesser postion Chist had was the result of His own volition (Phil. 2). He did not have to LOWER HIMSELF.
KJ
You're right. That COMMAND he received from his God.Dear Hopeless
you said:
Quote It doesn't really matter though, does it? If the Father is greater than Jesus in ANY RESPECT AT ALL, then you no longer have two EQUAL mighty gods who form one Almighty God. Do you not know what the word “EQUAL” means, Kathi? Which one was the greater Son Mike, or the greater servant, or the greater mediator, or the greater High Priest, or the greater Messiah, or who will be the greater judge of the whole world? Oh, the Father was never a Son or those other things, so that would be His Son was the greater son and those other things. So if the Son is greater in any way then they couldn't be equally a mighty God…c'mon Mike. It is their shared nature that make them a mighty God. Nothing is said that the Father is greater in nature does it? In fact it says that the Son is the EXACT representation of the nature of God. They are equal in nature. The word 'equal' is a math term used when you see the word 'is' in the word problem and the word 'and' means there is a + sign.
Deut 10:17 For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords
The LORD (Jehovah) your God = God of gods + Lord of lords
The LORD (Jehovah) your God = the Father + the Son according to Paul who tells us who our one God is and our one Lord is. Our one God is the Father and our one Lord is Jesus Christ. You can see that way back in Deuteronomy the Son was Lord and even Lord of lords.Also, it was the Son according to the flesh that was exalted to be Lord, the Son according to His divinity was always the Lord of lords.
6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.
Look to see more about that LORD (Jehovah) our God…
Deut 10:17 For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible , which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward: 18 He doth execute the judgment of the fatherless and widow, and loveth the stranger, in giving him food and raiment. 19 Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt. 20 Thou shalt fear the LORD thy God; him shalt thou serve , and to him shalt thou cleave , and swear by his name. 21 He is thy praise, and he is thy God, that hath done for thee these great and terrible things , which thine eyes have seen. 22 Thy fathers went down into Egypt with threescore and ten persons; and now the LORD thy God hath made thee as the stars of heaven for multitude.So the LORD our God who is the Father and the Son…is thy God to fear, serve, cleave, and swear by His name.
The LORD our God who is the Father and the Son…is also thy praise and thy God.Quote So are you now a Trinitarian, Kathi? Well, the road is wide enough for all of you.
I am a Christian. You don't know what a trinitarian is Mike for you to say that.Quote Now what ever gave us that idea? 1 Chronicles 17
7 “Now then, tell my servant David, ‘This is what the LORD Almighty says…………..11 When your days are over and you go to be with your fathers, I will raise up your offspring to succeed you, one of your own sons, and I will establish his kingdom.
13 I will be his father, and he will be my son.
14 I will set him over my house and my kingdom forever; his throne will be established forever.’”
This is about the offspring of David, not the 'root' of David. You must feel like you are sinking to even try that, Mike. It is the Son of God that was the 'root' of David who was begotten before the ages.
The LORD (Jehovah) Almighty that is mentioned in 1 Chronicles 17 is the Father with His Son who existed with His Father in the beginning. He did not come into existence as the Son of God in Mary. He was pre-existent, even eternally existent. The LORD was therefore always ALMIGHTY who is the Father with His Son.
Look at your pre-existent database for a refresher course. It seems like that info was forgotten by you. Are you not the same person who started that thread? Are you not the same person that argues the pre-existence of Christ in the pre-existence thread…and regularly? What makes you think you are going to get away with that. What do you believe, was the Son pre-existent to the Messiah, the offspring of David or not? I'm sure Gene could tell me what your answer would be, in fact probably any member here that has been a regular could tell me what you believe on that issue. Are you just wanting to waste our time?
Kathi
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