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Hi WJ,
Since “God The Father”(117) raised Jesus back to life (Gal.1:1), would that not make Him “The Savior”(117)? <–Please answer.
God The Father, who raised Jesus from the dead. (Gal.1:1)
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Pastry @ June 29 2011,08:00) Jesus is our Savior. But who is it that raised Him from the death? Peace Irene
Hi Irene,Will WJ answer this? …we will see.
Your brother
in Christ, Jesus!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgGood question Ed
And if jesus raised himself from the dead, was he really truly dead? No, God raised Jesus to life.
WJ
Quote Absolutely YES! And since nothing came into being without Jesus and by him all things consist then that means he is our creator! WJ
sinse when the ;Pr 8:30 Then I (Christ)was the craftsman at his side. becomes God the father
Quote (david @ June 28 2011,17:34) “There is actually to us one God the Father,” and “there is one Lord, Jesus Christ.”—1 Corinthians 8:5, 6. Despite being told there is 'one lord' we know that both God and Jesus are referred tp as Lord, as are many others in the Bible, to whom the word applies.
Can both be Lords?
Can both be saviors?Well, the Bible says there is only one lord. (It also calls many other's Lord–“Lord” is just a word that means “master.”)
A savior is someone who saved in some way. Jehovah saved Israel. Jehovah saved mankind THROUGH JESUS. Jesus saved mankind by ransoming his life. And others in the Bible saved others, and are called “saviors.”
Words have meaning. They aren't always titles. Words can be applied to more than one individual despite for example the Bible saying there is “one Lord.”
Wu has made a point to continually ask people how many saviors they have. Well how many lords do you have?Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 29 2011,01:49) Quote (t8 @ June 27 2011,17:35) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 28 2011,05:12) How many Saviors do you have ED? WJ
You have three.The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
How many do you have EdJ?
Can you beat WJ?
t8That is a lie! My God and Savior are One. Because the truth of the scriptures are “They are our Savior and our “theos/god”, and not our saviors or gods because you cannot have one without the other.
It is you that claims the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are not One God or One Savior.
WJ
WJ, you do not understand your own doctrine.Let me spell it out for you.
The Trinity God is a substance made up of three persons.
So if the substance (singular) is the saviour (singular), then that means that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit ARE the SAVIOURS.
Why? Because the word saviour is applied to persons, not to nature or substance.See that WJ. The Trinity is what it is.
Accept it or reject it, but since you teach it, I think you need to accept it.
You have 3 persons that are saviours.
Do I really need to spell out your own doctrine for you because if that is the case, then I understand your doctrine more than yourself. This then leads to what I have repeated a number of times, that is, you shouldn't be teaching this stuff because you lack understanding in this whole area and this will lead to a harsher judgement given that teachers are judged all the more.
I will now add this to Bizzaro World Doctrines.
Quote (Pastry @ June 28 2011,16:00) Kathy! And Keith for that matter! Jesus is our Savior. But who is it that raised Him from the death? Tts 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
These Scripture speaks of both God AND our Savior Jesus Christ. They are not the same….
1Cr 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God.
Peace Irene
Hi Irene,
Nice to see you posting. How are you doing? Here are some verses about who raised Jesus from the dead:Acts 2:24
Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.Acts 2:32
This Jesus hath God raised up….Acts 4:10
Jesus Christ … whom God raised from the dead….Acts 13:30
But God raised him from the dead.Galatians 1:1
Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)Colossians 2:12
Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.1 Thessalonians 1:10
… his Son … whom he raised from the dead.you said:
Quote Tts 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; These Scripture speaks of both God AND our Savior Jesus Christ. They are not the same….
New International Version (©1984)
while we wait for the blessed hope–the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,New Living Translation (©2007)
while we look forward with hope to that wonderful day when the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, will be revealed.English Standard Version (©2001)
waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,New American Standard Bible (©1995)
looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,International Standard Version (©2008)
as we wait for the blessed hope and glorious appearance of our great God and Savior, Jesus the Messiah.GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
At the same time we can expect what we hope for-the appearance of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.That verse is translated more accurately in the above translations.
BTW, that verse doesn't mean that Jesus is God the Father but instead Jesus is God as the Son…the mighty God.
I have a way of showing how God can be said to be one person and also two different persons:
The Almighty God, our Father = the Father who is a mighty God + the Son who is a mighty God + their Spirit.
On the left hand side of the equation you see one person who is the sum of the two persons and their spirit on the right side of the equation. This example may help you see that better:
The definition of a family man in an equation form:
family man = man + his wife + their child
Do you see how on the left hand side of the equation you see one person and on the right hand side of the equation you see more than one person. The right side of the equation is = to the left side of the equation. On the right side of the equation, each part is equally a person…this is not to say that I believe the Spirit is a person, I have not received that understanding from God's word. However, the Spirit may be thought of being the inner person of the Father and the Son, in unity.
For more verses on the deity of Christ, see here:
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….;t=3890Love to you,
KathiQuote (t8 @ June 28 2011,19:05) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 29 2011,01:49) Quote (t8 @ June 27 2011,17:35) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 28 2011,05:12) How many Saviors do you have ED? WJ
You have three.The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
How many do you have EdJ?
Can you beat WJ?
t8That is a lie! My God and Savior are One. Because the truth of the scriptures is “They are our Savior and our “theos/god”, and not our saviors or gods because you cannot have one without the other.
It is you that claims the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are not One God or One Savior.
WJ
WJ, you do not understand your own doctrine.
Ha Ha! If you had eyes to see and ears to hear you would see the truth.It is your doctrine that is convoluted and full of gaping holes and contradictions. You say things like…
Quote (t8 @ June 14 2011,17:49) Actually I believe that Jesus is theos/god.
And then you say you only have “one theos\god”It is your doctrine that teaches men to believe in and serve more than one theos/god!
It is your doctrine that teaches Jesus is not “The Saviour” but is “a savior” by proxy!
It is your doctrine that teaches men that they have many saviors and not one!
So how do these scriptures fit into your theology…?
Thou shalt have “no other gods” (elohiym) before me. Exod 20:3
And…
“But I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt. “You shall acknowledge no God ('elohiym) but me, no Savior except me”. Hosea 13:4
And…
…and that “there is none other God (theos) but one“. 1 Cor 8:4
Your theology places another god (theos) before YHWH. You can’t say this is not true because you have admitted you cannot have YHWH without Jesus. Your own words are deceiving when you say things like…
Quote (t8 @ June 14 2011,17:49) Actually I believe that Jesus is theos/god.
You can use the God/god argument all you want but as you know in Hebrew and Greek there are no “caps” or distinction in the words and that the context distinguishes between the “one true theos/god” and all others who are not the “one true theos/god”.So based on your statement above, how many theos/gods do you have?
Since you say…
Quote (t8 @ June 14 2011,17:49) Actually I believe that Jesus is theos/god.
Is Jesus “your” god/theos?It is a serious thing to teach men that Jesus is less than “the visible image of God” for to have an image of Jesus that is less than God is to create a false image of God and that is idolatry! You are teaching men that they are to believe in some sort of demi-god or half breed since to you he is neither fully God nor fully man.
You are teaching men to believe in and serve more than “one theos\god” and that is scripturally defined as Henotheism, Polytheism and idolatry!
WJ
Quote (t8 @ June 28 2011,19:05)
Let me spell it out for you.The Trinity God is a substance made up of three persons.
So if the substance (singular) is the saviour (singular), then that means that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit ARE the SAVIOURS.
Wrong! Because the Eternal “substance” of God cannot be divided, and since you cannot have one without the other that means that “they are our Savior and they are our God.Quote (t8 @ June 28 2011,19:05) Why? Because the word saviour is applied to persons, not to nature or substance.
Is there a scripture that says you can separate the nature or substance of God from the person. Where is the scripture that says we have more than “One Savior” or “One Theos\God?Quote (t8 @ June 28 2011,19:05) See that WJ. The Trinity is what it is.
Obviously I see it and you don’t.Quote (t8 @ June 28 2011,19:05) Accept it or reject it, but since you teach it, I think you need to accept it. You have 3 persons that are saviours.
No I have 3 persons that are “The God and Savior” since you cannot have the one without the other.Quote (t8 @ June 28 2011,19:05) Do I really need to spell out your own doctrine for you because if that is the case, then I understand your doctrine more than yourself.
Obviously you do not understand anything about the truth of the scriptures and their claim to “only one theos\god” and “one savior”, that is what I believe and you believe in many theos\gods and many “saviors”.Quote (t8 @ June 28 2011,19:05) This then leads to what I have repeated a number of times, that is, you shouldn't be teaching this stuff because you lack understanding in this whole area and this will lead to a harsher judgement given that teachers are judged all the more.
You must be looking into a mirror!WJ
Hi David, Ed and Irene. You have brought up another one of the Anti-Jesus is God fallacies which I will address tomorrow, until then goodnight and cudos.
WJ
Quote (Lightenup @ June 30 2011,08:15) family man = man + his wife + their child
No time for a lengthy post now, but I will throw this in for now given that it will take a minute.Family is a unit/organisation made up of persons.
A family is not a HIM, but THEY.So like WJ, you need to address God as THEY to be consistent with your doctrine.
Yet in scripture we are told that there is one true God who is the Father and he is referred to as HE/HIM and not THEY/THEM and when you put yours or WJ idea of God into to the word God in scripture, it breaks it.
e.g.,
Scripture:
For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son…T8:
For The Father so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son…WJ:
For The Father Son and Holy Spirit so loved the world that THEY gave THEIR only begotten son…LU:
For The Father and Son so loved the world that THEY gave THEIR only begotten son…If I had to choose one, I take the first one which I believe is the Father. He is the one true God and the source of his son.
NOTE: this is true with the vast majority of scripture except where another God is mentioned such as the God of this world, or when theos is used in a qualitative sense.
The son is not the one true God, he is lord because God made him lord and Christ.
The true confession of a believer is that the Father is the one true God and Jesus is the lord, Christ, and son of that God.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 30 2011,09:10) Hi David, Ed and Irene. You have brought up another one of the Anti-Jesus is God fallacies which I will address tomorrow, until then goodnight and cudos. WJ
Before you do that, why not be honest and admit that you have 3 saviours. The Father, Son, and Spirit.Can you admit that you have 3 saviours?
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 30 2011,09:10) Hi David, Ed and Irene. You have brought up another one of the Anti-Jesus is God fallacies which I will address tomorrow, until then goodnight and cudos. WJ
Hi WJ,Glad to see that the questions I ask you cause you to think about what you choose to believe as “Truth”!
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (WorshippingJesus @ June 28 2011,10:55) Does everything come to you from Jesus own hands or not?
No. All things are FROM God and THROUGH Jesus. So things come to me THROUGH the “hands” of Jesus, if you want to word it that way. Never FROM the hands of Jesus. For anything and everything Jesus has first came to him FROM his own God.So if a nice steak comes my way, the steak came FROM my God, who sent it THROUGH, or VIA Jesus in one way or another.
Now as for the “purified a people for HIMSELF” scripture you're clammoring about, I have but one question:
Did these people ALWAYS belong to Jesus? If they did, what did Jesus mean by telling his God that he didn't lose any of those GIVEN TO HIM except for Judas?
Quote (Lightenup @ June 28 2011,11:26) Acts 20:28 Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood. 1 Cor 6:20 For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body.
God=Jesus in these verses, not God the Father.
You've got to be kidding me!
Kathi,
I started to answer your response to my post point by point, but then got so frustrated I deleted it. Frankly, it's not worth my time.
You made a joke about sending your husband to the store, because to answer the question truthfully, you would have to admit that he who sends is greater than he who is sent. Jesus himself tells us this, in so many words.
You seem to think that Samuel is the one who anointed David as king over HIS OWN nation. (The oil was the REPRESENTATION of the anointing that came FROM GOD.)
And you filled the rest of your post with mind-numbing, unscriptural fluff that is not even worthy of any more of my time. Kathi, what you now preach is nothing short of blasphemy and heresy.
t8,
Quote Family is a unit/organisation made up of persons.
A family is not a HIM, but THEY.But that has nothing to do with my example. My example wasn't defining a family but a 'family man' who is a 'him' and not a they. t8, I have noticed time and time again how you are misreading nearly every post I write. I know how distracting kids can be and maybe that is your situation. The kids come first though, don't they family man
Try again…
KathiQuote (mikeboll64 @ June 29 2011,19:15) Quote (Lightenup @ June 28 2011,11:26) Acts 20:28 Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood. 1 Cor 6:20 For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body.
God=Jesus in these verses, not God the Father.
You've got to be kidding me!
Mike,
At least you are consistently blind
Now are you saying that the Father shed His blood and not the Son?Kathi
Mike,
Quote You seem to think that Samuel is the one who anointed David as king over HIS OWN nation. 1 Samuel 16:13
Then Samuel took the horn of oil and anointed him in the midst of his brothers; and the Spirit of the LORD came mightily upon David from that day forward. And Samuel arose and went to Ramah.1Then it came about afterwards that David inquired of the LORD, saying, “Shall I go up to one of the cities of Judah?” And the LORD said to him, “Go up.” So David said, “Where shall I go up?” And He said, “To Hebron.” 2So David went up there, and his two wives also, Ahinoam the Jezreelitess and Abigail the widow of Nabal the Carmelite. 3And David brought up his men who were with him, each with his household; and they lived in the cities of Hebron. 4Then the men of Judah came and there anointed David king over the house of Judah.
And they told David, saying, “It was the men of Jabesh-gilead who buried Saul.” 5David sent messengers to the men of Jabesh-gilead, and said to them, “May you be blessed of the LORD because you have shown this kindness to Saul your lord, and have buried him. 6“Now may the LORD show lovingkindness and truth to you; and I also will show this goodness to you, because you have done this thing. 7“Now therefore, let your hands be strong and be valiant; for Saul your lord is dead, and also the house of Judah has anointed me king over them.”2 Samuel 5:3
So all the elders of Israel came to the king at Hebron, and King David made a covenant with them before the LORD at Hebron; then they anointed David king over Israel.There you go Mike…right before your eyes. Samuel anointed David and the house of Judah anointed David as king OVER them. So was David necessarily the lessor just because he was anointed? He was made to be OVER them through that anointing.
As far as the one sent is lessor than the one sending, it is true that Jesus said that His Father was greater than Him and that the greater one sends the lessor one. But as I said, He is greater becauses He is the Father and not the Son.
I believe you would understand these things if you weren't under the influence of the lie that the Son was created. Do you cringe when you read the deity of Christ database…that would be your first clue that you are being influenced by the wrong spirit.
I know you are frustrated…I don't mean to frustrate you. lighten up
Your friend,
Kathi
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