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Isnt it true that the sons of God (including angels and those who are reconciled) is something entirely different from “the son of God, the Son of Man”
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Aug. 13 2011,12:24) Isnt it true that the sons of God (including angels and those who are reconciled) is something entirely different from “the son of God, the Son of Man”
Hi DTrue except angels are never called “sons” neither are they heirs to salvation or heirs of Christ!
WJ
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 13 2011,09:33)
Mike,
We are to worship Jehovah. Luke 4:8 does not specify the Father. Jehovah is both the Father and the Son.
Actually, Luke 4:8 doesn't say “YHWH” – it says “Kurios”. And if you think Jesus was including himself in the “Lord” who alone is to be worshipped and served, then you are simply pretending to have the comprehension skills of a one year old. Because in that story of Jesus in the wilderness with Satan, it is clear that Jesus is the SON OF the “Lord” who alone is to be worshipped.I mean, really? Are you suggesting that Satan is asking his own God and Creator to do an act of worship to him?
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 13 2011,09:33)
Do you think that Rev 21:22 is Adonai God Almighty or Jehovah God Almighty, Jehovah God is a common name of Jehovah in the OT, so I would say that 'Lord God Almighty' would apply to the unity of the Father and the Son.
Of course you would say that – it is the only understanding that would fit into your new doctrine. But the word there is “kurios”, not “YHWH”.Oh………….and you didn't answer to who the Lamb was if the Lord God Almighty was the unity of Jesus AND Jehovah.
mike
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 13 2011,11:26) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Aug. 13 2011,12:24) Isnt it true that the sons of God (including angels and those who are reconciled) is something entirely different from “the son of God, the Son of Man”
Hi DTrue except angels are never called “sons” neither are they heirs to salvation or heirs of Christ!
WJ
You are correct Dennison. Jesus is something different and better than the OTHER sons of God.Keith, who are the sons of God who shouted for joy when God laid the foundations of the earth?
mike
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 13 2011,10:42) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 13 2011,10:06) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 13 2011,08:56) “To which of the angels did “HE EVER SAY“, 'You are my Son'…?” The scripture doesn't say “To which of the angels did he ever say you are my Begotten son”, does it Mike?
Actually it does, Keith.The WHOLE thought is: Hebrews 1:5
For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son; today I have begotten you” ?And the scripture doesn't mean that God never called any angel his son. It means that of all of the spirit sons He has, He has only BEGOTTEN one of them.
Then why don't you give us a scripture where God calls an angelic being “Son”.Why don't you answer questions anymore Mike?
I don't answer your trival diversion questions anymore, Keith.Look at the point I made about “begotten”, and how you just sidestep that whole point by diverting away from it with your questions.
The answers to any of those questions have nothing to do with the “begotten” point I made, do they? So, when YOU are willing to start ACKNOWLEDGING what I'VE said, then I will answer A question of yours also.
So, do you ACKNOWLEDGE that it is the begetting that distinguishes Jesus from the other spirit sons of God?
mike
WJ and KJ
I only have to say this;Ecc 7:12 Wisdom is a shelter
as money is a shelter,
but the advantage of knowledge is this:
that wisdom preserves the life of its possessor.Pr 22:12 The eyes of the LORD keep watch over knowledge,
but he frustrates the words of the unfaithful.Pr 19:2 It is not good to have zeal without knowledge,
nor to be hasty and miss the way.Pr 11:9 With his mouth the godless destroys his neighbor,
but through knowledge the righteous escape.Pierre
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 13 2011,12:41) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 13 2011,11:26) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Aug. 13 2011,12:24) Isnt it true that the sons of God (including angels and those who are reconciled) is something entirely different from “the son of God, the Son of Man”
Hi DTrue except angels are never called “sons” neither are they heirs to salvation or heirs of Christ!
WJ
You are correct Dennison. Jesus is something different and better than the OTHER sons of God.Keith, who are the sons of God who shouted for joy when God laid the foundations of the earth?
mike
Does it say the Angels? Ambiguous at best!WJ
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 13 2011,12:44) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 13 2011,10:42) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 13 2011,10:06) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 13 2011,08:56) “To which of the angels did “HE EVER SAY“, 'You are my Son'…?” The scripture doesn't say “To which of the angels did he ever say you are my Begotten son”, does it Mike?
Actually it does, Keith.The WHOLE thought is: Hebrews 1:5
For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son; today I have begotten you” ?And the scripture doesn't mean that God never called any angel his son. It means that of all of the spirit sons He has, He has only BEGOTTEN one of them.
Then why don't you give us a scripture where God calls an angelic being “Son”.Why don't you answer questions anymore Mike?
I don't answer your trival diversion questions anymore, Keith.
MikeOh I see, you want others to answer your questions while you refuse to answer any? Aren't you supposed to get a tile for that?
OK, fair enough then do not ever insist that anyone should answer yours anymore!Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 13 2011,12:44) Look at the point I made about “begotten”, and how you just sidestep that whole point by diverting away from it with your questions.
And what is your point? You do not even understand the principle of like begetting like. Begotten (Monogenes) means only of its kind. Therefore Jesus cannot be of the angelic kind or that means the Father also has to be an angelic being!So simple yet you cannot grasp it or it is more like you would rather hold onto your damnable heresy that Jesus is of the created order or an angelic being!
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 13 2011,12:12) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 13 2011,12:41) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 13 2011,11:26) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Aug. 13 2011,12:24) Isnt it true that the sons of God (including angels and those who are reconciled) is something entirely different from “the son of God, the Son of Man”
Hi DTrue except angels are never called “sons” neither are they heirs to salvation or heirs of Christ!
WJ
You are correct Dennison. Jesus is something different and better than the OTHER sons of God.Keith, who are the sons of God who shouted for joy when God laid the foundations of the earth?
mike
Does it say the Angels? Ambiguous at best!WJ
What OTHER “sons of God” would have been present when He laid the foundations of the earth?And why do you think the LXX has translated it as “angels”?
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 13 2011,12:18) And what is your point? You do not even understand the principle of like begetting like. Begotten (Monogenes) means only of its kind. Therefore Jesus cannot be of the angelic kind or that means the Father also has to be an angelic being!
Again with MORE diversions, Keith?This is the point:
Jesus is the only son of God who was BEGOTTEN, and THAT is what separates him from the many other sons of God. DO YOU AGREE OR NOT?
And you are right that like begets like. Tell me, is God a SPIRIT BEING Keith? If so, then He would have begotten a son who was also a SPIRIT BEING, right?
So what does that have to do with “angels”? An angel is a SPIRIT BEING who is a messenger of his God. God is nobody's messenger, and therefore not an “angel”. But Jesus, on the other hand, is the FOREMOST messenger of his God, isn't he?
After two years of chasing your “sidetracks”, I have come to know how you do things, Keith. So, NO, I won't go chasing your diversion questions any more. You only post them to DIVERT AWAY FROM the point in question anyway. And I have come to understand this finally.
Answer the “begotten” point please.
mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 13 2011,13:56) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 13 2011,12:18) And what is your point? You do not even understand the principle of like begetting like. Begotten (Monogenes) means only of its kind. Therefore Jesus cannot be of the angelic kind or that means the Father also has to be an angelic being!
Again with MORE diversions, Keith?This is the point:
Jesus is the only son of God who was BEGOTTEN, and THAT is what separates him from the many other sons of God. DO YOU AGREE OR NOT?
And you are right that like begets like. Tell me, is God a SPIRIT BEING Keith? If so, then He would have begotten a son who was also a SPIRIT BEING, right?
MikeOk then that means every spirit being is a “son of God” or “begotten after his kind”, right?
No that is not what “Like begets Like” means. For if it does then all spirit beings are “sons of God” and all flesh beings are sons of man.
Tell us Mike…
Are demons and satan who are spirit beings, “sons of God”?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 13 2011,13:56) After two years of chasing your “sidetracks”, I have come to know how you do things, Keith.
Yes of course, I answer your questions but you can't answer mine. So who is sidetracking!WJ
Keith,
Mike seems to like to ignore that there are different kinds of spirit beings…there is the God kind and there is the angelic kind. If we clarify the spirit beings as the God spirit being kind and the angelic spirit being kind then he would have a more difficult time pushing his ideas, imo.Kathi
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 14 2011,22:11) Keith,
Mike seems to like to ignore that there are different kinds of spirit beings…there is the God kind and there is the angelic kind. If we clarify the spirit beings as the God spirit being kind and the angelic spirit being kind then he would have a more difficult time pushing his ideas, imo.Kathi
yeah and their is Kathy's spirit to deal withPierre
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 14 2011,04:26) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Aug. 13 2011,12:24) Isnt it true that the sons of God (including angels and those who are reconciled) is something entirely different from “the son of God, the Son of Man”
Hi DTrue except angels are never called “sons” neither are they heirs to salvation or heirs of Christ!
WJ
Angels are called “ministering spirits” to the heirs of salvation (Heb. 1) God NEVER addressed an angel calling it “son.”Jack
Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Aug. 14 2011,21:28) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 14 2011,04:26) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Aug. 13 2011,12:24) Isnt it true that the sons of God (including angels and those who are reconciled) is something entirely different from “the son of God, the Son of Man”
Hi DTrue except angels are never called “sons” neither are they heirs to salvation or heirs of Christ!
WJ
Angels are called “ministering spirits” to the heirs of salvation (Heb. 1) God NEVER addressed an angel calling it “son.”Jack
Jack!
Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?This was written before the Holy Spirit was pored out on man kind, so these Angels who are called the Sons of God shouted for joy…
This is talking about when God created the earth and all, then the Sons of God who are the Angels shouted for joy. We also have to remember that only The Word of God and the Angels were present and nothing else….
Peace IreneQuote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 13 2011,13:13) Tell us Mike… Are demons and satan who are spirit beings, “sons of God”?
Absolutely Keith.Just as the Israelites didn't stop being sons of God when they turned against Him. If your own son messes up, does he cease to be your son?
Keith, were you going to answer these questions – which ARE on the topic?
What OTHER “sons of God” would have been present when God laid the foundations of the earth?
And why do you think the LXX has translated “sons of God” as “angels” in Job 38:7?
mike
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 13 2011,22:11) Keith,
Mike seems to like to ignore that there are different kinds of spirit beings…there is the God kind and there is the angelic kind. If we clarify the spirit beings as the God spirit being kind and the angelic spirit being kind then he would have a more difficult time pushing his ideas, imo.Kathi
And Kathi likes to ignore the fact that if there were more than one “God kind” of spirit being, then we would have more than one God.I don't think Keith is willing to be as brave as you, Kathi. You are okay with openly declaring your worship of TWO different Gods. Keith is still in the closet about this. While he actually DOES worship more than one different God, he is still too ashamed to admit that, and so will continue on with his pretense that ALL of his Gods are somehow the SAME God.
Kathi, what are your thoughts about the “sons of God” mentioned in Job 1:6, 2:1, 38:7, and Gen 6:4? Do YOU think they are angels?
mike
Mike,
You ought to read what you wrote in this quote:Quote And Kathi likes to ignore the fact that if there were more than one “God kind” of spirit being, then we would have more than one God. I don't think Keith is willing to be as brave as you, Kathi. You are okay with openly declaring your worship of TWO different Gods.
In one sentence you say I ignore the fact and in the next you say I openly declare it.
Now, if any reader is not confused from what you said about what I declare, let me clarify…
I believe that the two Gods are united as one supreme deity who made heaven and earth and who eternally saved the children of God. I think this unity is named Jehovah, made up of one true God, the Father and one true Lord, Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father.
Kathi
Mike,
Quote Kathi, what are your thoughts about the “sons of God” mentioned in Job 1:6, 2:1, 38:7, and Gen 6:4? Do YOU think they are angels? Well, I believe they were heavenly created beings who do not call God their 'Father.'
Kathi
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 14 2011,11:56) I believe that the two Gods……………
Need I say more?When Keith admits what you do – that you have TWO Gods – then you will both be playing for the same team. As of yet, he has not been as brave as you. He continues to hide the fact that he truly DOES believe in and worship TWO Gods behind the comically flawed, man-made doctrine of the Trinity – which illogically teaches that one being can consist of three persons.
Smacks of paganism, eh?
mike
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