Titus 2:13, 14 Proof that Jesus is The Saviour&#33;

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 25 2011,22:40)

Quote (Lightenup @ July 24 2011,21:31)

I have already been through this with you. A compound unity is expressed with singular pronouns and therefore, that would also mean that a compound unity is expressed in singular nouns.

Really?

Quote (Lightenup @ July 24 2011,21:31)

The American Army is made up of countless soldiers but they, collectively as a compound unity, are the savior. They are not the saviors.

Then why are you saying “THEY” instead of “HE”? Are “compound unities” referred to with SINGULAR pronouns only when it is convenient for your doctrine? You claim that it makes perfect sense that Jesus AND the Father are together called a “HE”. But in your own explanation about the American Army, your common sense kicked in without you thinking about it, and you NATURALLY referred to MORE THAN ONE soldier as a “THEY”, and NOT a “HE”.

Kathi, you're not fooling anyone here but yourself.

Mike,
You don't understand what a compound unity is for you to say what you did. A compound unity is made up of more than one. One one hand, the members are one as a compound unity and another they are more than one as distinct persons. It depends on which side of the equation you are referring to as to whether it is referred to as one or more than one.

The members of the church are gathering together so they can have a Bible study.

The church is the bride of Christ and although she is made of many members, she is referred to as 'her' and 'she' as singular pronouns.

25Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her, 26so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, 27that He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless.

Why do you act like you can't get this, Mike?

Kathi

July 27, 2011 at 3:43 am#253917

Participant

Mike,
you said:

Quote

Then take it seriously, Kathi. I don't say it lightly. You are encouraging people to worship the creation. Blasphemy! You are teaching that our God NEEDS one of His creations in order to be Almighty. Blasphemy! You are teaching that our God was helpless to save us if not for a being He Himself created. Blasphemy! You teach that a created being is EQUAL to our God, when He asks, “WHO is my equal?” Blasphemy!

Mike do you realize that 'if' and I say 'if' for you, not because that is what I believe, if Christ was not created but always existed in some manner, then you are the one speaking blasphemy? Did that thought ever occur to you?

July 27, 2011 at 3:47 am#253919

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 25 2011,23:37)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 05 2011,14:55)

“But I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt. “You shall acknowledge no God ('elohiym) but me, no Savior except me”. Hosea 13:4

Hi Keith, Jack and Kathi:

Nehemiah 9:27
Therefore thou deliveredst them into the hand of their enemies, who vexed them: and in the time of their trouble, when they cried unto thee, thou heardest them from heaven; and according to thy manifold mercies thou gavest them saviours, who saved them out of the hand of their enemies.
How is this scripture true if your scripture is literal? Who are the “saviours” that are mentioned?

Isaiah 19:20
It will be a sign and witness to the LORD Almighty in the land of Egypt. When they cry out to the LORD because of their oppressors, he will send them a savior and defender, and he will rescue them.
How about this one? And who is the savior this one speaks of?

peace,
mike

The 'one' savior is according to the ultimate savior, not just someone that helps rescue someone. The ultimate savior gives eternal life, an ultimate salvation from sin.

Kathi

July 27, 2011 at 3:53 am#253920

Blocked

Quote (Lightenup @ July 26 2011,21:47)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 25 2011,23:37)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 05 2011,14:55)

“But I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt. “You shall acknowledge no God ('elohiym) but me, no Savior except me”. Hosea 13:4

Hi Keith, Jack and Kathi:

peace,
mike

The 'one' savior is according to the ultimate savior, not just someone that helps rescue someone. The ultimate savior gives eternal life, an ultimate salvation from sin.

Kathi

Please give me NAMES of who you think these people are. I'm undecided about Isaiah, as there are many thoughts on the matter as you can see in Biblos.com.

But I'm pretty sure Nehemiah is talking about Samson and the other judges – and possibly even some of the kings of Israel. Do you agree Kathi?

July 27, 2011 at 3:56 am#253922

Blocked

Quote (Lightenup @ July 26 2011,21:43)

Mike,
you said:

Quote

Luke 12:10
And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.

I think I'll be okay. But what if YOU'RE wrong? (And I say “if” only for YOUR benefit.)

July 27, 2011 at 3:59 am#253923

Blocked

Quote (Lightenup @ July 26 2011,21:40)

Why do you act like you can't get this, Mike?

Your own words showed me that you yourself know we don't call a “THEY” a “HE” Kathi. There is no more discussion needed.

July 27, 2011 at 4:02 am#253925

Participant

Mike,
A compound unity is in some contexts a singular pronoun and in other contexts a plural pronoun, read what I just gave you as an example of this.

Kathi

July 27, 2011 at 4:05 am#253926

Participant

Mike,
Can you say 'Jesus is Lord' as in the Lord of lords of Deut 10:17?

Yes or no?
Kathi

July 27, 2011 at 4:16 am#253928

Blocked

Deut 10:17 is about Jehovah. But yes, Jesus is also called the Lord of lords and he is my Lord.

Kathi, please address Nehemiah.

July 27, 2011 at 4:48 am#253934

Ed J

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ July 27 2011,03:26)

edj

Quote

Mike,
The Father and the Son together acted in unity as the one savior. Salvation belongs to both and they are one.

God the ruler over all,Christ his son ,100000000 angels the Army,human believers and prophets #? (are the earthly active members)

all are part of God will and so participant in being the saviors of creation,(some bigger parts than others)All guided by the WILL of God (holy spirit )

SO THERE IS ONLY ONE SAVIOR “GOD”

Pierre

Hi Pierre,

Read Isaiah 43:11 and Isaiah 45:21 and get back to me.

God bless
eD j (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

July 27, 2011 at 4:53 am#253936

Ed J

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 27 2011,12:34)

Quote (Ed J @ July 25 2011,23:58)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 26 2011,15:37)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 05 2011,14:55)

“But I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt. “You shall acknowledge no God ('elohiym) but me, no Savior except me”. Hosea 13:4

Hi Keith, Jack and Kathi:

peace,
mike

Quote

(55)Satan = “No God”(55)

I the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, thou shalt
know no god(ĔL-ō-Hêêm=63) but me(YHVH=63):
for there is no savior beside me. (Hosea 13:4)

Hi Mike,

This “Kinda” shoots down your,
Jesus is (according to Mike) a god, theory; right?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Pay attention, sonny.

If I can ever get any of these three, OR EVEN YOU, to answer the post of mine that you quoted, you'll begin to learn some things.

Perhaps YOU can tell me who these “saviors” were in these two scriptures, Ed?

Can you?

mike

Hi Mike,

That wasn't my question. …and I think you kinda know that.

Your friend
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

July 27, 2011 at 1:40 pm#253963

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 26 2011,22:53)

Quote (Lightenup @ July 26 2011,21:47)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 25 2011,23:37)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 05 2011,14:55)

“But I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt. “You shall acknowledge no God ('elohiym) but me, no Savior except me”. Hosea 13:4

Hi Keith, Jack and Kathi:

peace,
mike

The 'one' savior is according to the ultimate savior, not just someone that helps rescue someone. The ultimate savior gives eternal life, an ultimate salvation from sin.

Kathi

Please give me NAMES of who you think these people are. I'm undecided about Isaiah, as there are many thoughts on the matter as you can see in Biblos.com.

But I'm pretty sure Nehemiah is talking about Samson and the other judges – and possibly even some of the kings of Israel. Do you agree Kathi?

Mike,
I haven't researched these passages but this is what Gill says about each:

Re: Nehemiah 9:27
Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
Therefore thou deliveredst them into the hand of their enemies, who vexed them,…. As the kings of Mesopotamia, Moab, Canaan, and others:

and in the time of their trouble, when they cried unto thee; as they usually did, Judges 3:9,

thou heardest them from heaven; and according to thy manifold mercies thou gavest them saviours, who saved them out of the hands of their enemies; such were judges, Othniel, Ehud, Barak, Gideon, &c. and this was, done for them, not on account of their merits, but the abundant unmerited mercy of the Lord towards them.
http://bible.cc/nehemiah/9-27.htm

Re: Isaiah 19:20
Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
And it shall be for a sign and for a witness unto the Lord of hosts in the land of Egypt,…. This refers either to what goes before, that the altar and pillar were signs and witnesses that the Lord was believed in, professed, and worshipped there; or to what follows after, that the Lord's hearing the cries of men, and answering them, by sending a great Saviour to them, is a token and testimony for him of his great love unto them:

for they shall cry unto the Lord because of the oppressors; as men awakened and convinced do, feeling the oppressions of a guilty conscience, and a tempting devil, and an ensnaring wicked world:

and he shall send them a Saviour, and a great one, and he shall deliver them; this is Christ, whom God sent in the fulness of time to be the Saviour of lost sinners; and he is a “great” one indeed, the great God, and our Saviour, Titus 2:13 who is the Son of God, the true God, and eternal life, who has all the perfections of deity in him; the Creator and Upholder of all things; and must have therefore great and sufficient abilities to save sinners to the uttermost; and those that come to God by him he does save and deliver from all their sins, and out of the hands of all their enemies, and from wrath, ruin, and destruction. Abarbinel (e) owns that the Messiah is here meant, as undoubtedly he is; and not the angel that destroyed Sennacherib's army, as Kimchi; for the text speaks not of the Jews, but of the Egyptians. Vitringa thinks that either Alexander, called the Great, or else Ptolemy the son of Lagus, who had the same epithet, and who was also called “Soter”, the saviour, is here meant
http://bible.cc/isaiah/19-20.htm

I do not want to take the time to research this at this point. I hope these commentaries help you.
Kathi

July 27, 2011 at 1:52 pm#253964

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 26 2011,20:37)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 26 2011,11:58)

Mike

Yes there are two persons who are our “One Savior”.

Keith, why won't you answer my post about Nehemiah and Isaiah? Because you know where it will lead?

BUSTED! :laugh:

Please answer it.

mike

Mike

Not at all! You don't control me or my post. I am letting you simmer!

Come on Mike surely by now you know I am not “AFRAID” of you and your faliled doctrine which cannot stand up to the light of scriptures!

Stop beating your chest Mike!

July 27, 2011 at 2:07 pm#253967

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 26 2011,20:37)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 26 2011,11:58)

Mike

Yes there are two persons who are our “One Savior”.

Keith and Mike are MEMBERS of HN, not MEMBER of HN. Get it? TWO persons cannot be ONE savior in the real world. This can only happen in Bizzaro World, where YOU dwell.

Ha Ha Mike

Even your own example is twisted! There are “many members” of HN, but it is still HN! Not HNs! Get it?

There is the Father and the Son that are our Savior, not “Saviors”. Get it?

There are many members of the Body of Christ but there is only “One Bride”, get it?

Is the Bride a “She” or not Mike?

There is a husband and a wife that are “One Flesh” not “two flesh”, get it?

When your eyes have been opened to see the plural unity of God then you will truly know who and what God is!

Mike you still have not produced a NT verse or quote from a valid source that we have “two saviors”, have you?

Mike, can the Father be your “Savior” without Jesus?

Is Jesus your “Savior” or not?

They are simple yes or no questions. Lets see how honest you will be in your answer!

July 27, 2011 at 2:11 pm#253968

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ July 26 2011,20:42)

see I am part of your savior by helping you to see the truth but do you wanted it seems not,does it

so we see if you can find one other than God the father

Pierre

Hi All

Now Peirre is saying “he is part of my savior”.

Does this mean you are my “savior” Peirre?

Thanks again for not answering the quesitons.

Mike and t8 should he get a tile?

July 27, 2011 at 2:43 pm#253971

Ed J

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 28 2011,01:11)

Quote (terraricca @ July 26 2011,20:42)

see I am part of your savior by helping you to see the truth but do you wanted it seems not,does it

so we see if you can find one other than God the father

Pierre

Hi All

Now Peirre is saying “he is part of my savior”.

Does this mean you are my “savior” Peirre?

Thanks again for not answering the quesitons.

Mike and t8 should he get a tile?

Hi WJ,

It does seem a little odd what Pierre just said, but
doctrinal issues hardly seems a tile-able offense.

Just weighing in,
your brother
in Christ,
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

July 27, 2011 at 2:51 pm#253973

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ July 27 2011,09:43)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 28 2011,01:11)

Quote (terraricca @ July 26 2011,20:42)

see I am part of your savior by helping you to see the truth but do you wanted it seems not,does it

so we see if you can find one other than God the father

Pierre

Hi All

Now Peirre is saying “he is part of my savior”.

Does this mean you are my “savior” Peirre?

Thanks again for not answering the quesitons.

Mike and t8 should he get a tile?

Hi WJ,

It does seem a little odd what Pierre just said, but
doctrinal issues hardly seems a tile-able offense.

Just weighing in,
your brother
in Christ,
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

It is not a matter of doctrine, it is a matter of anwering simple questions.

I agree with you that he should not get a tile for not answering but I only bring it up because this was what t8 and Mike was pushing that if you didn't answer a question you should get a warning and then a tile.

July 27, 2011 at 3:00 pm#253975

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ July 24 2011,22:17)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 24 2011,12:17)

Bump for all the “anti-Jesus is God and Savior” crowd.

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 27 2011,13:13)

Can you show me where the scriptures teach there is more than “ONE Savior”? Did the Apostles ever say “OUR Saviors”?

Well is there more than “One Savior” mentioned in the NT scriptures?

no there is only ONE and that is God the father and creator of all

Pierre

So then Jesus is “not your Savior”? Then you deny these scriptures…?

while we wait for the blessed hope—the glorious appearing of “our great God and Savior”, Jesus Christ, “WHO GAVE HIMSELF“ for us, that ”that HE might redeem us” from all iniquity, and ”purify UNTO HIMSELF a peculiar people, zealous of good works”. Tit 2:13, 14

Today in the town of David ”a Savior has been born to you; he is Christ” the Lord. Luke 2:11

They said to the woman, “We no longer believe just because of what you said; now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man really is ”the Savior of the world”.” John 4:42

For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and ”he is the Saviour of the body”. Eph 5:23

For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for ”the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ”: Who (Jesus) shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, ”according to the working whereby “HE” (Jesus) is able even to subdue all things unto himself”. Phil 3:20, 21

July 27, 2011 at 3:06 pm#253977