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Mike
church mean congregation meeting , assembly,a temple is were the assembly is taken place, so in the new heaven and new earth
we will be night and day living in the assembly before God and his son (temple)
Pierre
Okay Pierre.
Was there a post of mine you were responding to? Or were you just making a general statement of knowlege? Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 08 2011,20:27) Okay Pierre. Was there a post of mine you were responding to? Or were you just making a general statement of knowlege?
Mikesorry to have created a confusion;
it was in response to what Kathi said to you;
Mike,
The Messiah (the Lamb) according to the human nature would be who the song is 'of.' The Lord God Almighty would be the ONE Jehovah our God who is both God of gods (the Father) and Lord of lords (the Son).Without the work of the Lamb there would be no need of a temple. The Lord God Almighty and the existence of and victory of the Lamb, is what allows us to worship and our worship is in the Lord God Almighty, (the Father and the Son) and the Lamb, (the human nature of the Son).
————–
“For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”
So…Lightenupsometimes I forget to add things ,
Pierre
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 08 2011,21:04) Sometimes I forget to subtract things. Hey, together we could make up one almost normal person! 
a minus and a plus =0 Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 07 2011,22:04) Sometimes I forget to subtract things. Hey, together we could make up one almost normal person!
Like…together, the Father and the Son with their Spirit, make the Father one Almighty God.Quote (Lightenup @ July 10 2011,20:57) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 07 2011,22:04) Sometimes I forget to subtract things. Hey, together we could make up one almost normal person!
Like…together, the Father and the Son with their Spirit, make the Father one Almighty God.
Kathiit does not work like that with God,with men it does also with ans how more you have how stronger they are,
if all of creation got together with there power they still would not improve Gods power
for God does not depend on his creation,
you can drop this one as well.
Pierre
Pierre, Jehovah our God is the God of gods (the Father) and the Lord of lords (the Son).
psalm 136:1 Give thanks to Jehovah, for He is good, For His lovingkindness is everlasting. 2 Give thanks to the God of gods, For His lovingkindness is everlasting. 3 [/B]Give thanks to the Lord of lords, For His lovingkindness is everlasting.[/B] 4 To Him who alone does great wonders, For His lovingkindness is everlasting ; 5 To Him who made the heavens with skill, For His lovingkindness is everlasting ; 6 To Him who spread out the earth above the waters, For His lovingkindness is everlasting ; 7 To Him who made the great lights, For His lovingkindness is everlasting : 8 The sun to rule by day, For His lovingkindness is everlasting, 9 The moon and stars to rule by night, For His lovingkindness is everlasting. 10 To Him who smote the Egyptians in their firstborn, For His lovingkindness is everlasting, 11 And brought Israel out from their midst, For His lovingkindness is everlasting, 12 With a strong hand and an outstretched arm, For His lovingkindness is everlasting. 13 To Him who divided the Red Sea asunder, For His lovingkindness is everlasting, 14 And made Israel pass through the midst of it, For His lovingkindness is everlasting ; 15 But He overthrew Pharaoh and his army in the Red Sea, For His lovingkindness is everlasting. 16 To Him who led His people through the wilderness, For His lovingkindness is everlasting ; 17 To Him who smote great kings, For His lovingkindness is everlasting, 18 And slew mighty kings, For His lovingkindness is everlasting : 19 Sihon, king of the Amorites, For His lovingkindness is everlasting, 20 And Og, king of Bashan, For His lovingkindness is everlasting, 21 And gave their land as a heritage, For His lovingkindness is everlasting, 22 Even a heritage to Israel His servant, For His lovingkindness is everlasting. 23 Who remembered us in our low estate, For His lovingkindness is everlasting, 24 And has rescued us from our adversaries, For His lovingkindness is everlasting ; 25 Who gives food to all flesh, For His lovingkindness is everlasting. 26 Give thanks to the God of heaven, For His lovingkindness is everlasting.
Deut 10:12 “Now, Israel, what does Jehovah your God require from you, but to fear Jehovah your God, to walk in all His ways and love Him, and to serve Jehovah your God with all your heart and with all your soul, 13 and to keep Jehovah's commandments and His statutes which I am commanding you today for your good ? 14 “Behold, to Jehovah your God belong heaven and the highest heavens, the earth and all that is in it. 15 “Yet on your fathers did Jehovah set His affection to love them, and He chose their descendants after them, even you above all peoples, as it is this day. 16 “So circumcise your heart, and stiffen your neck no longer. 17 “For Jehovah your God is the God of gods and the Lord of lords, the great, the mighty, and the awesome God who does not show partiality nor take a bribe. 18
Jesus is the one Lord…He is the Lord of lords. See in the above verses that creation is credited to the Jehovah our God who IS God of gods (the Father) and the Lord of lords (the Son).
Rev 17:14
“These will wage war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, because He is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those who are with Him are the called and chosen and faithful.”Rev 19:16
And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written, “KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.”Blessings,
KathiQuote (mikeboll64 @ July 06 2011,22:58) So not only do we have TWO Gods, but also TWO Jesus's? We have a HUMAN Jesus AND a GOD Jesus? Kathi, our ONE Jesus is the one who sang the song TO God Almighty. The word “AND” is clear enough for anyone who is not deliberately trying to exchange clear words for nonsense.
What you imply is that Jesus, who is a part of God Almighty, deemed himself worthy to take the scroll from his own hand.
And our temple will be the Father, the Son, AND “human Jesus”? So now our salvation comes through THREE? God the Father, God the Son, AND Christ the Son?
Kathi, I'm begging you to come out of her. You have gone so far off the rail that I'm sincerely worried for your sanity.
peace,
mike
Mike,
No, that is not what I said.Jesus is not two persons but one person with two natures, both divinity and humanity.
Quote What you imply is that Jesus, who is a part of God Almighty, deemed himself worthy to take the scroll from his own hand. Wrong assumption…the Lamb took the scroll from the Father as God Almighty who is the Father with His Son and their Spirit. Here the Father is distinct from the Son but not separated from Him as the Almighty.
Quote And our temple will be the Father, the Son, AND “human Jesus”? So now our salvation comes through THREE? God the Father, God the Son, AND Christ the Son? As I said, Jesus is one person, two natures. He is both the Lamb according to His humanity and one with the Father according to His divinity…making up the One Jehovah our God.
Read the above post that I wrote to Pierre for scriptures.
Sincerely,
KathiQuote (Lightenup @ July 10 2011,22:14) Pierre, Jehovah our God is the God of gods (the Father) and the Lord of lords (the Son). psalm 136:1 Give thanks to Jehovah, for He is good, For His lovingkindness is everlasting. 2 Give thanks to the God of gods, For His lovingkindness is everlasting. 3 [/B]Give thanks to the Lord of lords, For His lovingkindness is everlasting.[/B] 4 To Him who alone does great wonders, For His lovingkindness is everlasting ; 5 To Him who made the heavens with skill, For His lovingkindness is everlasting ; 6 To Him who spread out the earth above the waters, For His lovingkindness is everlasting ; 7 To Him who made the great lights, For His lovingkindness is everlasting : 8 The sun to rule by day, For His lovingkindness is everlasting, 9 The moon and stars to rule by night, For His lovingkindness is everlasting. 10 To Him who smote the Egyptians in their firstborn, For His lovingkindness is everlasting, 11 And brought Israel out from their midst, For His lovingkindness is everlasting, 12 With a strong hand and an outstretched arm, For His lovingkindness is everlasting. 13 To Him who divided the Red Sea asunder, For His lovingkindness is everlasting, 14 And made Israel pass through the midst of it, For His lovingkindness is everlasting ; 15 But He overthrew Pharaoh and his army in the Red Sea, For His lovingkindness is everlasting. 16 To Him who led His people through the wilderness, For His lovingkindness is everlasting ; 17 To Him who smote great kings, For His lovingkindness is everlasting, 18 And slew mighty kings, For His lovingkindness is everlasting : 19 Sihon, king of the Amorites, For His lovingkindness is everlasting, 20 And Og, king of Bashan, For His lovingkindness is everlasting, 21 And gave their land as a heritage, For His lovingkindness is everlasting, 22 Even a heritage to Israel His servant, For His lovingkindness is everlasting. 23 Who remembered us in our low estate, For His lovingkindness is everlasting, 24 And has rescued us from our adversaries, For His lovingkindness is everlasting ; 25 Who gives food to all flesh, For His lovingkindness is everlasting. 26 Give thanks to the God of heaven, For His lovingkindness is everlasting.
Deut 10:12 “Now, Israel, what does Jehovah your God require from you, but to fear Jehovah your God, to walk in all His ways and love Him, and to serve Jehovah your God with all your heart and with all your soul, 13 and to keep Jehovah's commandments and His statutes which I am commanding you today for your good ? 14 “Behold, to Jehovah your God belong heaven and the highest heavens, the earth and all that is in it. 15 “Yet on your fathers did Jehovah set His affection to love them, and He chose their descendants after them, even you above all peoples, as it is this day. 16 “So circumcise your heart, and stiffen your neck no longer. 17 “For Jehovah your God is the God of gods and the Lord of lords, the great, the mighty, and the awesome God who does not show partiality nor take a bribe. 18
Jesus is the one Lord…He is the Lord of lords. See in the above verses that creation is credited to the Jehovah our God who IS God of gods (the Father) and the Lord of lords (the Son).
Rev 17:14
“These will wage war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, because He is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those who are with Him are the called and chosen and faithful.”Rev 19:16
And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written, “KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.”Blessings,
Kathi
Kathiand now you drop all scriptures that says he is the son and not the father ? so now it is God who died on the cross?
is that what you try to say ?
Pierre
Pierre,
Quote and now you drop all scriptures that says he is the son and not the father ? so now it is God who died on the cross? is that what you try to say ?
No, I wrote that Jehovah our God is the unity of the God of gods who is the Father and the Lord of lords who is the Son. The person who died on the cross is the Son…His human flesh died, not His divine Spirit but three days later His divine Spirit was once again united with His body of flesh which was glorified. The one called 'God of gods' did not come in the flesh it was the one called 'Lord of lords.'
Good night Pierre…sweet dreams,
KathiQuote (Lightenup @ July 09 2011,22:28)
Jesus is not two persons but one person with two natures, both divinity and humanity.
So it was the human NATURE of Jesus that sang to the divine NATURE of Jesus? Can a “nature” sing a song to someone?Quote (Lightenup @ July 09 2011,22:28)
the Lamb took the scroll from the Father as God Almighty who is the Father with His Son and their Spirit.
Okay, let's play this out. There was God Almighty sitting on a throne. So the Father, AND the Son were BOTH sitting on the throne as some “combo God”, right? Then this Lamb came and took a scroll from God Almighty, right? Okay, WHO is the Lamb that took the scroll FROM God Almighty? Was the Lamb the human NATURE of Jesus that took the scroll from the divine NATURE of Jesus?How does this work out in your account? Can a “nature” take something from a different “nature” of the same being?
Quote (Lightenup @ July 09 2011,22:28)
As I said, Jesus is one person, two natures. He is both the Lamb according to His humanity and one with the Father according to His divinity…making up the One Jehovah our God.
Yes Kathi, we're all aware that you keep SAYING it. I'm waiting for you to show some proof to support it. And for you to address the scriptures in Rev that refute it.Quote (Lightenup @ July 09 2011,22:28)
Read the above post that I wrote to Pierre for scriptures.
Look at the sixth word of your scripture. It says “HE is good”. A combo God made up of the Father and the Son would require a plural pronoun, and the scripture would say “THEY” are good.So as is usually the case when people try to invent their own doctrines, the scriptures they use as support end up discrediting their doctrine instead.
There is nothing in the scripture you posted, nor in any other scripture, that teaches we have TWO “mighty gods” who join forces like the Power Rangers and become one “Almighty God”.
peace,
mikeMike,
First of all the 'song of the Lamb' is not referring to a song that the Lamb sang. It is a song about the Lamb as the deliverer. See here:Rev 5:9
8When He had taken the book, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each one holding a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.
9And they sang a new song, saying,
“Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation.
10“You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth.”The song of Moses is regarding how God delivered the Israelites from the Egyptians, sung by Moses and the Israelites:
Exodus 15
The Song of Moses and Israel
1Then Moses and the sons of Israel sang this song to the LORD, and said,
“I will sing to the LORD, for He is highly exalted;
The horse and its rider He has hurled into the sea.2“The LORD is my strength and song,
And He has become my salvation;
This is my God, and I will praise Him;
My father’s God, and I will extol Him.3“The LORD is a warrior;
The LORD is His name.4“Pharaoh’s chariots and his army He has cast into the sea;
And the choicest of his officers are drowned in the Red Sea.5“The deeps cover them;
They went down into the depths like a stone.6“Your right hand, O LORD, is majestic in power,
Your right hand, O LORD, shatters the enemy.7“And in the greatness of Your excellence You overthrow those who rise up against You;
You send forth Your burning anger, and it consumes them as chaff.8“At the blast of Your nostrils the waters were piled up,
The flowing waters stood up like a heap;
The deeps were congealed in the heart of the sea.9“The enemy said, ‘I will pursue, I will overtake, I will divide the spoil;
My desire shall be gratified against them;
I will draw out my sword, my hand will destroy them.’10“You blew with Your wind, the sea covered them;
They sank like lead in the mighty waters.11“Who is like You among the gods, O LORD?
Who is like You, majestic in holiness,
Awesome in praises, working wonders?12“You stretched out Your right hand,
The earth swallowed them.13“In Your lovingkindness You have led the people whom You have redeemed;
In Your strength You have guided them to Your holy habitation.14“The peoples have heard, they tremble;
Anguish has gripped the inhabitants of Philistia.15“Then the chiefs of Edom were dismayed;
The leaders of Moab, trembling grips them;
All the inhabitants of Canaan have melted away.16“Terror and dread fall upon them;
By the greatness of Your arm they are motionless as stone;
Until Your people pass over, O LORD,
Until the people pass over whom You have purchased.17“You will bring them and plant them in the mountain of Your inheritance,
The place, O LORD, which You have made for Your dwelling,
The sanctuary, O Lord, which Your hands have established.18“The LORD shall reign forever and ever.”
19For the horses of Pharaoh with his chariots and his horsemen went into the sea, and the LORD brought back the waters of the sea on them, but the sons of Israel walked on dry land through the midst of the sea.
20Miriam the prophetess, Aaron’s sister, took the timbrel in her hand, and all the women went out after her with timbrels and with dancing.
21Miriam answered them,
“Sing to the LORD, for He is highly exalted;
The horse and his rider He has hurled into the sea.”Both songs are about the deliverence of God from the enemies of God, through Moses and then through the Lamb.
Rev 15:3And they sang the song of Moses, the bond-servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying,
“Great and marvelous are Your works,
O Lord God, the Almighty;
Righteous and true are Your ways,
King of the nations!
4“Who will not fear, O Lord, and glorify Your name?
For You alone are holy;
For ALL THE NATIONS WILL COME AND WORSHIP BEFORE YOU,
FOR YOUR RIGHTEOUS ACTS HAVE BEEN REVEALED.”The Lord God Almighty is who the Father is as a Father with His Son and their Spirit. In my opinion, when we see the 'Lord God, Almighty' we recognize a unity of Father and Son and their Spirit even if we are speaking to the Father or about the Father.
Quote Was the Lamb the human NATURE of Jesus that took the scroll from the divine NATURE of Jesus? The Lamb was Jesus who was dual natured but the human nature is the part that died. The Lamb took the scroll from His Father. And His Father is is the Lord God Almighty as a Father in union with His Son and of course their Spirit. That doesn't mean that the Son is the one sitting on the throne in this verse but the Son is certainly united as deity with the one sitting on the throne.
Quote Look at the sixth word of your scripture. It says “HE is good”. A combo God made up of the Father and the Son would require a plural pronoun, and the scripture would say “THEY” are good. The “He” is the unity of the two persons. This passage emphasizes their unity and that is why the singular pronoun is used, imo. Sometimes the singular pronoun is referring to the Father who is the Father in unity with the Son and of course their Spirit. Sometimes the singular pronoun is emphasizing the unity.
Quote There is nothing in the scripture you posted, nor in any other scripture, that teaches we have TWO “mighty gods” who join forces like the Power Rangers and become one “Almighty God”. 1 Cor 8:6
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.Deut 10:12 “Now, Israel, what does Jehovah your God require from you, but to fear Jehovah your God, to walk in all His ways and love Him, and to serve Jehovah your God with all your heart and with all your soul, 13 and to keep Jehovah's commandments and His statutes which I am commanding you today for your good ? 14 “Behold, to Jehovah your God belong heaven and the highest heavens, the earth and all that is in it. 15 “Yet on your fathers did Jehovah set His affection to love them, and He chose their descendants after them, even you above all peoples, as it is this day. 16 “So circumcise your heart, and stiffen your neck no longer. 17 “For Jehovah your God is the God of gods and the Lord of lords, the great, the mighty, and the awesome God who does not show partiality nor take a bribe. 18
Open your eyes, Mike.
Also look at this thread: https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….;t=3890
Have a good day,
KathiQuote (Lightenup @ July 11 2011,13:16) Mike,
First of all the 'song of the Lamb' is not referring to a song that the Lamb sang. It is a song about the Lamb as the deliverer. See here:Rev 5:9
8When He had taken the book, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each one holding a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.
9And they sang a new song, saying,
“Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation.
10“You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth.”The song of Moses is regarding how God delivered the Israelites from the Egyptians, sung by Moses and the Israelites:
Exodus 15
The Song of Moses and Israel
1Then Moses and the sons of Israel sang this song to the LORD, and said,
“I will sing to the LORD, for He is highly exalted;
The horse and its rider He has hurled into the sea.2“The LORD is my strength and song,
And He has become my salvation;
This is my God, and I will praise Him;
My father’s God, and I will extol Him.3“The LORD is a warrior;
The LORD is His name.4“Pharaoh’s chariots and his army He has cast into the sea;
And the choicest of his officers are drowned in the Red Sea.5“The deeps cover them;
They went down into the depths like a stone.6“Your right hand, O LORD, is majestic in power,
Your right hand, O LORD, shatters the enemy.7“And in the greatness of Your excellence You overthrow those who rise up against You;
You send forth Your burning anger, and it consumes them as chaff.8“At the blast of Your nostrils the waters were piled up,
The flowing waters stood up like a heap;
The deeps were congealed in the heart of the sea.9“The enemy said, ‘I will pursue, I will overtake, I will divide the spoil;
My desire shall be gratified against them;
I will draw out my sword, my hand will destroy them.’10“You blew with Your wind, the sea covered them;
They sank like lead in the mighty waters.11“Who is like You among the gods, O LORD?
Who is like You, majestic in holiness,
Awesome in praises, working wonders?12“You stretched out Your right hand,
The earth swallowed them.13“In Your lovingkindness You have led the people whom You have redeemed;
In Your strength You have guided them to Your holy habitation.14“The peoples have heard, they tremble;
Anguish has gripped the inhabitants of Philistia.15“Then the chiefs of Edom were dismayed;
The leaders of Moab, trembling grips them;
All the inhabitants of Canaan have melted away.16“Terror and dread fall upon them;
By the greatness of Your arm they are motionless as stone;
Until Your people pass over, O LORD,
Until the people pass over whom You have purchased.17“You will bring them and plant them in the mountain of Your inheritance,
The place, O LORD, which You have made for Your dwelling,
The sanctuary, O Lord, which Your hands have established.18“The LORD shall reign forever and ever.”
19For the horses of Pharaoh with his chariots and his horsemen went into the sea, and the LORD brought back the waters of the sea on them, but the sons of Israel walked on dry land through the midst of the sea.
20Miriam the prophetess, Aaron’s sister, took the timbrel in her hand, and all the women went out after her with timbrels and with dancing.
21Miriam answered them,
“Sing to the LORD, for He is highly exalted;
The horse and his rider He has hurled into the sea.”Both songs are about the deliverence of God from the enemies of God, through Moses and then through the Lamb.
Rev 15:3And they sang the song of Moses, the bond-servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying,
“Great and marvelous are Your works,
O Lord God, the Almighty;
Righteous and true are Your ways,
King of the nations!
4“Who will not fear, O Lord, and glorify Your name?
For You alone are holy;
For ALL THE NATIONS WILL COME AND WORSHIP BEFORE YOU,
FOR YOUR RIGHTEOUS ACTS HAVE BEEN REVEALED.”The Lord God Almighty is who the Father is as a Father with His Son and their Spirit. In my opinion, when we see the 'Lord God, Almighty' we recognize a unity of Father and Son and their Spirit even if we are speaking to the Father or about the Father.
Quote Was the Lamb the human NATURE of Jesus that took the scroll from the divine NATURE of Jesus? The Lamb was Jesus who was dual natured but the human nature is the part that died. The Lamb took the scroll from His Father. And His Father is is the Lord God Almighty as a Father in union with His Son and of course their Spirit. That doesn't mean that the Son is the one sitting on the throne in this verse but the Son is certainly united as deity with the one sitting on the throne.
Quote Look at the sixth word of your scripture. It says “HE is good”. A combo God made up of the Father and the Son would require a plural pronoun, and the scripture would say “THEY” are good. The “He” is the unity of the two persons. This passage emphasizes their unity and that is why the singular pronoun is used, imo. Sometimes the singular pronoun is referring to the Father who is the Father in unity with the Son and of course their Spirit. Sometimes the singular pronoun is emphasizing the unity.
Quote There is nothing in the scripture you posted, nor in any other scripture, that teaches we have TWO “mighty gods” who join forces like the Power Rangers and become one “Almighty God”. 1 Cor 8:6
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.Deut 10:12 “Now, Israel, what does Jehovah your God require from you, but to fear Jehovah your God, to walk in all His ways and love Him, and to serve Jehovah your God with all your heart and with all your soul, 13 and to keep Jehovah's commandments and His statutes which I am commanding you today for your good ? 14 “Behold, to Jehovah your God belong heaven and the highest heavens, the earth and all that is in it. 15 “Yet on your fathers did Jehovah set His affection to love them, and He chose their descendants after them, even you above all peoples, as it is this day. 16 “So circumcise your heart, and stiffen your neck no longer. 17 “F
or Jehovah your God is the God of gods and the Lord of lords, the great, the mighty, and the awesome God who does not show partiality nor take a bribe. 18Open your eyes, Mike.
Also look at this thread: https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….;t=3890
Have a good day,
Kathi
Kathiwhy you think it was a new song??
Pierre
Quote (Lightenup @ July 10 2011,13:16)
In my opinion, when we see the 'Lord God, Almighty' we recognize a unity of Father and Son and their Spirit even if we are speaking to the Father or about the Father.
Why? When I speak to my own father, I don't imagine that I'm talking to him AND my brother at the same time.
Quote (Lightenup @ July 10 2011,13:16)
The Lamb took the scroll from His Father. And His Father is is the Lord God Almighty as a Father in union with His Son and of course their Spirit.
That means the Lamb took the scroll from the union of the Father and himself.Quote (Lightenup @ July 10 2011,13:16)
That doesn't mean that the Son is the one sitting on the throne in this verse but the Son is certainly united as deity with the one sitting on the throne.
The Lamb IS the Son, right? So then the One sitting on the throne was not the Lord God Almighty, because the Son was not there with Him at the time, right? Apparently, the Lamb is one of our TWO mighty Gods, who took the scroll from the hand of the other of our TWO mighty Gods.Yet I could have sworn that the One sitting on the throne was the Lord God Almighty. And it was from the hand of the Lord God Almighty that our other mighty God took the scroll.
Quote (Lightenup @ July 10 2011,13:16)
The “He” is the unity of the two persons.
The unity of more than one person would never be a “HE”, Kathi. It could be a “THEY”, or an “IT”, as in a government. But never are TWO ever referred to as a “HE”.I said:
Quote There is nothing in the scripture you posted, nor in any other scripture, that teaches we have TWO “mighty gods” who join forces like the Power Rangers and become one “Almighty God”. You quoted:
Quote 1 Cor 8:6
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.
I don't get it. This scripture very clearly tells everyone who exactly our one God is. And it tells us who our one Lord is. Tell me Kathi, WHO MADE Jesus our Lord?In your other scripture, you seem to be claiming that Jehovah is the combination of “God of gods” (the Father) and “Lord of lords” (the Son), right? Hmmmm………….why then do the next two words call Jehovah only “mighty” instead of “Almighty”? Doesn't this work against your “mighty + mighty= Almighty” theory? For here THEY are both listed together, yet HE
is not called “Almighty”, but only “mighty”.Back to the drawing board. Making up a new doctrine is hard work, huh?
Pierre,
It was a new song because it was about a new deliverance from the deliverance in the song of Moses. Here is some more about that:Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
And they sung a new song,…. Upon a new occasion and subject, redemption by the blood of the Lamb, and his worthiness to open the sealed book; and in distinction from the old song of Moses and the children of Israel at the Red sea; and this was a most famous and excellent song, an unheard of one, and which none could learn, or sing, but the redeemed of the Lamb:saying, thou art worthy to take the book, and open the seals thereof. The Arabic version reads, “thou, O Lamb”; the reasons why they ascribe such fitness, ability, and dignity to him, are as follow:
for thou wast slain: by men, and for the sins of men; whereby, as he became worthy in his priestly office to take away the sins of his people, and to have all the glory of their salvation, and, in his kingly office, to have all power and authority, and to be exalted above every name, so, in his prophetic office, to have perfect knowledge, as man and Mediator, of all the future events that were to befall his church and people, and to make them known, and fulfil them:
and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood, out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; this shows, that as the four living creatures, and four and twenty elders, were not angels, so they were not representatives of the Jewish church; or the patriarchs and prophets of the Old Testament; not even the apostles of the New; for they were all Jews, and could not be said to be redeemed out of every tongue, nation, and people; and also that not the Jews only were redeemed by Christ, but the Gentiles also, and not all mankind, or every individual of human nature, but some out of all the nations of the earth; for God hath chosen some, both of Jews and Gentiles, and these Christ has redeemed and therefore the Gospel is sent unto all nations, that these among them may be called and saved. The redemption of them supposes them to have been in a state of slavery and bondage, as they are by nature, to sin, Satan, and the law; and signifies a deliverance from such a state, which Christ has obtained, not barely by power, but by price, as the word here used signifies, and may be rendered, “and hast bought us” and the price with which he has bought them in his own “blood”, and which is of full and sufficient value, it being not only the blood of a man, of an innocent man, but of one that is God as well as man: and this price was paid “to God”, and to his justice, against whom men have sinned, whose law they have broken, and whose justice they have injured and affronted, that he might reconcile them to God, bring them near to him, and that they might serve him in righteousness and true holiness.
from here: http://bible.cc/revelation/5-9.htm
Kathi
Oh Mike,
You are trying so hard to make this more difficult than it needs to be.you said:
Quote Why? When I speak to my own father, I don't imagine that I'm talking to him AND my brother at the same time. You wouldn't be speaking to your father if he never had children would you
You would not even be speaking to your father without the recognition that you are his child unless you were senile (which is possible, I suppose). The two go hand in hand. He wouldn't be your father unless you were his son. That is plain. We are to recognize the Father as one united to the Son and never without His Son. That is the primary reason He is the heavenly Father. The Father is Almighty because of the Son being the mighty God always with Him. The Father is a He, not a them. Remember my definition of a 'family man.'
A family man = a man + his wife + their child
Almighty God, our Father = The Father who is a mighty God + His Son, who is also a mighty God + their Spirit.
Almighty God, our Father had the scroll and the Lamb took it from Him.
It is sorta like in the instance of the family man, the wife taking the family man's checkbook. She is not the family man but a part of what defines him as a family man. It could have even been a joint checkbook but it was the man who kept it till she needed it. Again, that would be two persons, one who took the checkbook from the other.Quote The Lamb IS the Son, right? So then the One sitting on the throne was not the Lord God Almighty, because the Son was not there with Him at the time, right? Apparently, the Lamb is one of our TWO mighty Gods, who took the scroll from the hand of the other of our TWO mighty Gods.
The wife doesn't need to be sitting next to the man for him to be the family man, she just needs to be his wife. The Son doesn't need to be sitting next to the Father for the Father to be the Almighty God, the Son just needs to be His Son for the Father to be the Almighty God. The Son is a mighty God because He is the Son of God the Father. The mighty God who is the Son, with the mighty God who is the Father makes the Father Almighty.Quote I don't get it. This scripture very clearly tells everyone who exactly our one God is. And it tells us who our one Lord is. Tell me Kathi, WHO MADE Jesus our Lord? 1 Cor 8:6
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.The Son through whom all things came always was our one Lord. According to the humanity of Jesus, God made Him Lord and Christ but according to His divinity through whom all things came, He always was our one Lord.
Quote n your other scripture, you seem to be claiming that Jehovah is the combination of “God of gods” (the Father) and “Lord of lords” (the Son), right? Hmmmm………….why then do the next two words call Jehovah only “mighty” instead of “Almighty”? Doesn't this work against your “mighty + mighty= Almighty” theory? For here THEY are both listed together, yet HE is not called “Almighty”, but only “mighty”. Mike if someone was almighty would he not also be mighty? Geesh! If someone was a billionaire would he not also be a millionaire? If someone were a grandparent, wouldn't they also be a parent? You are too funny! Use common sense. To think that the Almighty could not be called mighty is just nonsense, sorry.
Try again…
Kathi
Quote (Lightenup @ July 11 2011,20:46) Pierre,
It was a new song because it was about a new deliverance from the deliverance in the song of Moses. Here is some more about that:Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
And they sung a new song,…. Upon a new occasion and subject, redemption by the blood of the Lamb, and his worthiness to open the sealed book; and in distinction from the old song of Moses and the children of Israel at the Red sea; and this was a most famous and excellent song, an unheard of one, and which none could learn, or sing, but the redeemed of the Lamb:saying, thou art worthy to take the book, and open the seals thereof. The Arabic version reads, “thou, O Lamb”; the reasons why they ascribe such fitness, ability, and dignity to him, are as follow:
for thou wast slain: by men, and for the sins of men; whereby, as he became worthy in his priestly office to take away the sins of his people, and to have all the glory of their salvation, and, in his kingly office, to have all power and authority, and to be exalted above every name, so, in his prophetic office, to have perfect knowledge, as man and Mediator, of all the future events that were to befall his church and people, and to make them known, and fulfil them:
and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood, out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; this shows, that as the four living creatures, and four and twenty elders, were not angels, so they were not representatives of the Jewish church; or the patriarchs and prophets of the Old Testament; not even the apostles of the New; for they were all Jews, and could not be said to be redeemed out of every tongue, nation, and people; and also that not the Jews only were redeemed by Christ, but the Gentiles also, and not all mankind, or every individual of human nature, but some out of all the nations of the earth; for God hath chosen some, both of Jews and Gentiles, and these Christ has redeemed and therefore the Gospel is sent unto all nations, that these among them may be called and saved. The redemption of them supposes them to have been in a state of slavery and bondage, as they are by nature, to sin, Satan, and the law; and signifies a deliverance from such a state, which Christ has obtained, not barely by power, but by price, as the word here used signifies, and may be rendered, “and hast bought us” and the price with which he has bought them in his own “blood”, and which is of full and sufficient value, it being not only the blood of a man, of an innocent man, but of one that is God as well as man: and this price was paid “to God”, and to his justice, against whom men have sinned, whose law they have broken, and whose justice they have injured and affronted, that he might reconcile them to God, bring them near to him, and that they might serve him in righteousness and true holiness.
from here: http://bible.cc/revelation/5-9.htm
Kathi
Kathiwhen do you think that song will be or is sang?
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