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Taken from:
http://examiningthetrinity.blogspot.com/2009….ck.html
Is. 43:11 – “I, even I, am Jehovah; and besides me there is no saviour.” – ASV.
Luke 2:11 – “for there is born to you this day in the city of David a Saviour, who is Christ the Lord.” – ASV.
Some trinitarians will quote the two scriptures above as “proof” that Jesus is Jehovah. After all, not only do both Jesus and Jehovah have the title “Saviour,” but Jehovah says he is the only saviour!
But is “saviour” (yasha in Hebrew, soter in NT Greek) really an exclusive title for Jehovah, or can it properly be applied to other individuals?
If Jehovah is insisting that no one but himself is ever to be called “saviour,” then He and His inspired Bible writers would never call anyone else by that exclusive title.
So, when we read that Othniel (Judges 3:9) and Ehud (Judges 3:15) are both called “saviour” (same Hebrew word translated “saviour” at Is. 43:11 is translated “deliverer” in KJV – compare ASV), should we really believe they are both Jehovah because “besides [Jehovah] there is no saviour”? If so, we have a new “trinity”: The Father, Ehud, and Othniel!!
“Mystery” religionists and “plural-oneness God” devotees should be interested in Obadiah 21 also. There they can “prove” that all those saviours are Jehovah. Furthermore, they might “prove” that those saviours are Christians who, therefore, will all be Jehovah! For example, if Jehovah alone is saviour, and Jesus is saviour because he saves (Greek: sosei – Matt. 1:21 and soso – John 12:47) men, then Jesus “must” be God. By this same reasoning, since some followers of Jesus also save (Greek: sosei – James 5:20; 1 Tim. 4:16 and soso – 1 Cor. 9:22) men, then they (the saviours of Obadiah 21?) too, must be God!
(This is very similar to the “Forgiveness” silliness that is sometimes used to “prove” the trinity. – “Only God can forgive sins,” say certain trinitarians, “and Jesus forgave sin, Mark 2:7. Therefore, Jesus must be God!” So, John 20:20-23 “proves” that the disciples also must be God, right?)
We realize that Jehovah, as the only Almighty and Most High God, is the ultimate Saviour and the only origin of salvation, and, in that sense, and by comparison, there are no others.
However, it is obvious that other individuals can be, and are, saviours in a subordinate sense, if Jehovah so wills it. That means, then, that Jehovah is the only ultimate saviour (or the only ultimate source of salvation), and, in the cases of Ehud and Othniel, for example, Jehovah was saviour through them.
So when we see statements like: “…. Jesus is the savior (gospel), it says that there is no savior other than Jehovah which ties in with Peter saying in Acts 4:10-12 that there is no savior but Jesus”, we know what is intended:
There have been many saviors or deliverers (yasha – Hebrew, and soter – NT Greek) found in scripture who saved others through appointment by or commandment of God. But there is only one most high source of salvation (or only one savior or deliverer [yasha / soter] in the highest sense of the word) – Jehovah, the Father.
Acts 4:10-12 actually says about Jesus, “whom God raised from the dead”: (12) “There is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among mortals by [or `through'] which we may be saved.”
“For of all names in the world given to men, this is the only one by which we can be saved.” – JB & NJB.
“There is salvation in no one else! Under all heaven there is no other name for men to call upon to save them.” – LB.
Yes Jesus is our savior and king, but he is our only savior in the sense of being the only one (excluding God in heaven the source of that salvation who sent him for this purpose) who gave us the opportunity for eternal salvation. This is explained in John 3:17: “Indeed, God did not send the Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.” – NRSV. God is the source of salvation, Jesus was the instrument.
(It's like scripture telling us that Jehovah gave the Israelites the Law and then also saying Moses gave the Israelites the law. They were both the Lawgiver, but in different senses: Jehovah was the source, and Moses was the instrument. Jehovah gave the law to Israel through Moses.
New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology also tells us: “Because God is the initiator [source] of salvation, both he and Christ are called soter, saviour …” – p. 78, Vol. 2, Zondervan, 1986.
The
Notice what the very trinitarian NIVSB has to say in its introduction to the book of Judges:
“Title – The title [Judges] describes the leaders Israel had from the time of the elders who outlived Joshua until the time of the monarchy. Their principal purpose is best expressed in 2:16: `Then the LORD [Jehovah] raised up judges who saved them out of the hands of … raiders.' Since it was God who permitted the oppression and raised up deliverers [saviors], he himself was Israel's ultimate Judge and Deliverer [Savior].”[1]
This is well-illustrated at Judges 6:14 where Jehovah commands Gideon to save Israel. But later, the saviour, Gideon, says it is Jehovah who is saving Israel (Judges 6:37).
Those who look for great “mysteries” in every Bible statement and those who look for revelations of a multiple-persons-in-one God could well take these scriptures to “prove” Gideon is Jehovah. But it should be obvious to any objective student that Jehovah saved Israel through Gideon! (See discussion of “through” in the study paper on “Beginning, Wisdom, and Firstborn.”)
With that understanding in mind look at Jude 25. (Unfortunately this verse is one of the thousands which were rendered incorrectly by the King James translators in 1611.) Modern translators correctly render this verse:
“To the only God, our Savior through Jesus Christ [compare John 3:17]” – RSV. Also see The Jerusalem Bible.
(Notice the careful distinction at Jude 25 between “the only God” and “Jesus Christ our Lord” – compare John 17:1, 3.) It might be worthwhile to examine Heb. 5:7 also – “Jesus offered up prayers … unto Him that was able to save him.”
It is clear that, as Ehud, Othniel, and Gideon were saviors because Jehovah was providing salvation through them, so Jesus, in a much larger sense, is also savior because Jehovah (“the only God”) has provided salvation through him! – Compare 1 Thess. 5:9; 1 Peter 2:2 (modern translations); Rev. 7:10.
New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology also tells us: “Because God is the initiator [source] of salvation, both he and Christ are called soter, saviour …” – p. 78, Vol. 2, Zondervan, 1986.
The
It might also be interesting to examine the meaning of Jesus' personal name. Like the names “Joshua” and “Isaiah,” Jesus' name literally means “Jehovah is salvation”!Quote David,
. . . .And show how Jesus could be the “Savior” without being God. And explain how you can have two Saviors.This is the chief problem with anti-trinitarianism. It is not consistent. If Jesus is excluded as “God” in this verse then God is excluded as “Savior.” Yet anti-trinitarians say that God alone is Savior right?
You're too much David. Too much.
thinker
–tt, “Sharp's made up Rule, thread”
TT, you want me to show you how Jesus could be “Savior” without being God.
You seem to think that attaching the word “savior” to someone equals them being God.
Well if that's the case, why do you worship so many gods? Because many in the Bible are called “savior.” See post above.
Titus 1:3, 4 speaks of “God our Savior,” and then of both “God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior.”
So, both persons are saviors.
Jude 25 shows the relationship, saying: “God, our Savior through Jesus Christ our Lord.” (See also Acts 13:23.)
At Judges 3:9, the same Hebrew word (moh·shi′a‛, rendered “savior” or “deliverer”) that is used at Isaiah 43:11 is applied to Othniel, a judge in Israel, but that certainly did not make Othniel Jehovah, did it?
TT, show me how Othniel or Ehud could be saviors and not be God? (This is your reasoning, not mine.)
david
Quote (david @ Dec. 21 2009,13:40) Taken from: http://examiningthetrinity.blogspot.com/2009….ck.html
Is. 43:11 – “I, even I, am Jehovah; and besides me there is no saviour.” – ASV.
Luke 2:11 – “for there is born to you this day in the city of David a Saviour, who is Christ the Lord.” – ASV.
Some trinitarians will quote the two scriptures above as “proof” that Jesus is Jehovah. After all, not only do both Jesus and Jehovah have the title “Saviour,” but Jehovah says he is the only saviour!
But is “saviour” (yasha in Hebrew, soter in NT Greek) really an exclusive title for Jehovah, or can it properly be applied to other individuals?
If Jehovah is insisting that no one but himself is ever to be called “saviour,” then He and His inspired Bible writers would never call anyone else by that exclusive title.
So, when we read that Othniel (Judges 3:9) and Ehud (Judges 3:15) are both called “saviour” (same Hebrew word translated “saviour” at Is. 43:11 is translated “deliverer” in KJV – compare ASV), should we really believe they are both Jehovah because “besides [Jehovah] there is no saviour”? If so, we have a new “trinity”: The Father, Ehud, and Othniel!!
“Mystery” religionists and “plural-oneness God” devotees should be interested in Obadiah 21 also. There they can “prove” that all those saviours are Jehovah. Furthermore, they might “prove” that those saviours are Christians who, therefore, will all be Jehovah! For example, if Jehovah alone is saviour, and Jesus is saviour because he saves (Greek: sosei – Matt. 1:21 and soso – John 12:47) men, then Jesus “must” be God. By this same reasoning, since some followers of Jesus also save (Greek: sosei – James 5:20; 1 Tim. 4:16 and soso – 1 Cor. 9:22) men, then they (the saviours of Obadiah 21?) too, must be God!
(This is very similar to the “Forgiveness” silliness that is sometimes used to “prove” the trinity. – “Only God can forgive sins,” say certain trinitarians, “and Jesus forgave sin, Mark 2:7. Therefore, Jesus must be God!” So, John 20:20-23 “proves” that the disciples also must be God, right?)
We realize that Jehovah, as the only Almighty and Most High God, is the ultimate Saviour and the only origin of salvation, and, in that sense, and by comparison, there are no others.
However, it is obvious that other individuals can be, and are, saviours in a subordinate sense, if Jehovah so wills it. That means, then, that Jehovah is the only ultimate saviour (or the only ultimate source of salvation), and, in the cases of Ehud and Othniel, for example, Jehovah was saviour through them.
So when we see statements like: “…. Jesus is the savior (gospel), it says that there is no savior other than Jehovah which ties in with Peter saying in Acts 4:10-12 that there is no savior but Jesus”, we know what is intended:
There have been many saviors or deliverers (yasha – Hebrew, and soter – NT Greek) found in scripture who saved others through appointment by or commandment of God. But there is only one most high source of salvation (or only one savior or deliverer [yasha / soter] in the highest sense of the word) – Jehovah, the Father.
Acts 4:10-12 actually says about Jesus, “whom God raised from the dead”: (12) “There is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among mortals by [or `through'] which we may be saved.”
“For of all names in the world given to men, this is the only one by which we can be saved.” – JB & NJB.
“There is salvation in no one else! Under all heaven there is no other name for men to call upon to save them.” – LB.
Yes Jesus is our savior and king, but he is our only savior in the sense of being the only one (excluding God in heaven the source of that salvation who sent him for this purpose) who gave us the opportunity for eternal salvation. This is explained in John 3:17: “Indeed, God did not send the Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.” – NRSV. God is the source of salvation, Jesus was the instrument.
(It's like scripture telling us that Jehovah gave the Israelites the Law and then also saying Moses gave the Israelites the law. They were both the Lawgiver, but in different senses: Jehovah was the source, and Moses was the instrument. Jehovah gave the law to Israel through Moses.
New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology also tells us: “Because God is the initiator [source] of salvation, both he and Christ are called soter, saviour …” – p. 78, Vol. 2, Zondervan, 1986.
The
Notice what the very trinitarian NIVSB has to say in its introduction to the book of Judges:
“Title – The title [Judges] describes the leaders Israel had from the time of the elders who outlived Joshua until the time of the monarchy. Their principal purpose is best expressed in 2:16: `Then the LORD [Jehovah] raised up judges who saved them out of the hands of … raiders.' Since it was God who permitted the oppression and raised up deliverers [saviors], he himself was Israel's ultimate Judge and Deliverer [Savior].”[1]
This is well-illustrated at Judges 6:14 where Jehovah commands Gideon to save Israel. But later, the saviour, Gideon, says it is Jehovah who is saving Israel (Judges 6:37).
Those who look for great “mysteries” in every Bible statement and those who look for revelations of a multiple-persons-in-one God could well take these scriptures to “prove” Gideon is Jehovah. But it should be obvious to any objective student that Jehovah saved Israel through Gideon! (See discussion of “through” in the study paper on “Beginning, Wisdom, and Firstborn.”)
With that understanding in mind look at Jude 25. (Unfortunately this verse is one of the thousands which were rendered incorrectly by the King James translators in 1611.) Modern translators correctly render this verse:
“To the only God, our Savior through Jesus Christ [compare John 3:17]” – RSV. Also see The Jerusalem Bible.
(Notice the careful distinction at Jude 25 between “the only God” and “Jesus Christ our Lord” – compare John 17:1, 3.) It might be worthwhile to examine Heb. 5:7 also – “Jesus offered up prayers … unto Him that was able to save him.”
It is clear that, as Ehud, Othniel, and Gideon were saviors because Jehovah was providing salvation through them, so Jesus, in a much larger sense, is also savior because Jehovah (“the only God”) has provided salvation through him! – Compare 1 Thess. 5:9; 1 Peter 2:2 (modern translations); Rev. 7:10.
New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology also tells us: “Because God is the initiator [source] of salvation, both he and Christ are called soter, saviour …” – p. 78, Vol. 2, Zondervan, 1986.
The
It might also be interesting to examine the meaning of Jesus' personal name. Like the names “Joshua” and “Isaiah,” Jesus' name literally means “Jehovah is salvation”!
David…….this is a good post to clarify the term savior, Good Job.gene
i have been thinking about a lot of our chats here – tit for tat on certain issues and reflected in my heart that some of these things are very trivial and are not even important as to the fact we need to focus on what is needed for our salvation.
jesus paved way for christianity and he once had said that it didn't matter where one worshipped at. i feel that if you follow christ(christianity) and use that as your lifes guide then you are making them happy.
if one only worships and gives praise to God almighty and has faith in jesus as our savior and our way to evelasting life and that our life is driven by that and not overcome or filled with wanting wealth,greed,power,material things and following the cycle of the worlds system of things then your on the right track.
we need to listen to what jesus taught. he said that what was needed now was to worship in spirit and in truth.
thats what matters.
if each of use loves God as the almighty God the only true god and that we love his son and have faith in him and accept that his ransom has cleansed us.
he taught that we need to preach the good news of gods kingdom and to follow gods laws, even the smallest infraction of each law is to be avoided.
by us worshipping in faith and love(spiritual) things that god requires it will then grow that seed that we have sown with that which leads to the truth part
worship in truth is our lifes actions and words that others see us doing. we are in truth with that spiritual worship if we show it by our lifestyle.
thats the main thing everyone needs to focus on.
all this trivial stuff within the christian sects is pointless really.
why try to argue little things that don't really matter to god for our way to worship him. if one thinks that jesus was in heaven before being put into the womb makes no difference. it will not change the fact that if you are sincere yuo will both still love god as the almighy god and love jesus for being our savior and way to everlasting life.
i think that some sects within christianity may be more strict than another but that does not mean they are right and your wrong or vise versa. hold on to the simple fact that have God and jesus your focal point and try to show that with how you life yuor life and spread that love to others.
hi david i have read a lot of your posts and its is impressive that you have tons of scriptual knowledge. my parents are JW's and i went in my youth to appease them but never took it into my heart for myself.
i have just started to gather knowledge from all points . purchased numerous bibles to have a openmind. growing up we never celebrated christmas. i wast told that it originated for pagan worship and that was that.
however i had read and seen historical facts that state that indeed it was a roman worship on the 25th to the sun god, for they were in hard dark times and used it to celebrate and time for celebration to shed light upon such drearty times. the christian chruch or christianity congregation at that time already was holding a time for jesus's death and was acknowldged by the romans also.they wanted to convert over those not fully worshipping god and his son so they used that date also to honor christs birth and made the transition for them very easy to do. the christian group did not mind them having a good time as long as they honored and worshipped christ.
that is not the same as what i was taught. that is not the same as the pagan worship of the sun being transfered over to christian faith at all.
it was a coverting tool used and does not represent sun worship at all. there are no scritures that say it is wrong to honor christs birth so if one puts up strict laws regarding this does not make it right. also it does not make it wrong to do.
such as the puritans used strict views becasue they wanted to try to safeguard there life, but that doesn't mean it is scriptually forbidden or wrong.
hi peace2all
like a bridge type ,christians now deciding how to let people in God kingdom not Christ,this is now a major change ,we now be thanking men for our lives is that right?? not so never this is abomination to me,Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 23 2009,09:16) hi peace2all
like a bridge type ,christians now deciding how to let people in God kingdom not Christ,this is now a major change ,we now be thanking men for our lives is that right?? not so never this is abomination to me,
i have no idea what you just posted means?hi p2
it was a coverting tool used and does not represent sun worship at all. there are no scritures that say it is wrong to honor christs birth so if one puts up strict laws regarding this does not make it right. also it does not make it wrong to do.such as the puritans used strict views becasue they wanted to try to safeguard there life, but that doesn't mean it is scriptually forbidden or wrong.
your post was in broken sentences, didn't understandf what your point is.
what is it you are saying? im didn't understand it . thanks
Quote however i had read and seen historical facts that state that indeed it was a roman worship on the 25th to the sun god, for they were in hard dark times and used it to celebrate and time for celebration to shed light upon such drearty times. the christian chruch or christianity congregation at that time already was holding a time for jesus's death and was acknowldged by the romans also.they wanted to convert over those not fully worshipping god and his son so they used that date also to honor christs birth and made the transition for them very easy to do. the christian group did not mind them having a good time as long as they honored and worshipped christ. that is not the same as what i was taught. that is not the same as the pagan worship of the sun being transfered over to christian faith at all.
it was a coverting tool used and does not represent sun worship at all. there are no scritures that say it is wrong to honor christs birth so if one puts up strict laws regarding this does not make it right. also it does not make it wrong to do.
Hi Peace2all. While I'd love to talk about Christmas. (I have like hundreds of pages of research on it), I really really really want this thread to be about both Jesus and God being called “savior.” It seems that whenever I start a thread, it is hi-jacked in about 5 minutes and ends up turning into a trinity debate. Well this thread actually has to do with the trinity, so, I thought I would be safe. Alas, I was wrong. I'll go find a Christmas thread and bring it to the top.
Peace2all, and Terrarrica, What do you think about Jesus and God both being called “Savior.” Would you consider this proof of anything?
Quote (david @ Dec. 23 2009,10:11) Quote however i had read and seen historical facts that state that indeed it was a roman worship on the 25th to the sun god, for they were in hard dark times and used it to celebrate and time for celebration to shed light upon such drearty times. the christian chruch or christianity congregation at that time already was holding a time for jesus's death and was acknowldged by the romans also.they wanted to convert over those not fully worshipping god and his son so they used that date also to honor christs birth and made the transition for them very easy to do. the christian group did not mind them having a good time as long as they honored and worshipped christ. that is not the same as what i was taught. that is not the same as the pagan worship of the sun being transfered over to christian faith at all.
it was a coverting tool used and does not represent sun worship at all. there are no scritures that say it is wrong to honor christs birth so if one puts up strict laws regarding this does not make it right. also it does not make it wrong to do.
Hi Peace2all. While I'd love to talk about Christmas. (I have like hundreds of pages of research on it), I really really really want this thread to be about both Jesus and God being called “savior.” It seems that whenever I start a thread, it is hi-jacked in about 5 minutes and ends up turning into a trinity debate. Well this thread actually has to do with the trinity, so, I thought I would be safe. Alas, I was wrong. I'll go find a Christmas thread and bring it to the top.
Peace2all, and Terrarrica, What do you think about Jesus and God both being called “Savior.” Would you consider this proof of anything?
sorry David, first time i saw a recent post from you and wanted to talk at ya is all.anyways as far as the whole trinity thing is.
if both yourself and one who believes in the trinity both hold jesus and god the same why such as Jehovah is the only true god and jesus is our savior and to follow his teachings then squabbling over small things that are not something god really cares about or not a vital issue to serve and worship him. it has no effect on you if you live life for god and his son and then try to show your spiritual faith by the actions in your life.
Quote if both yourself and one who believes in the trinity both hold jesus and god the same why such as Jehovah is the only true god and jesus is our savior –peace
But that's the thing. We don't hold Jesus and Jehovah the same. You said “Jehovah is the only true god and jesus is our savior.”
But WJ for instance, believes that Jesus, Jehovah and the holy spirit, are a trinity, all equally god. The Bible does not hold this out.
Quote then squabbling over small things that are not something god really cares about or not a vital issue to serve and worship him. Yes, but the problem is, WJ (Worshiping Jesus) …worships Jesus. And the holy spirit too, I imagine.
Since Jesus directed worship only to his Father, and since we are to imitate Jesus, I wonder how this would make Jehovah feel? All honor and glory to Jesus, and to his Father, but worship belongs only to the Father.For it is written, ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’” –Jesus.
i'm reading the greatest man who ever lived right now, and what rings out is that he said for those needed to have faith in him and worship in spirit and truth.
that if you worship and praise god almighty as the only true god and walk in life trying to follow his laws and that you have faith in him (christ jesus) and live your life in reflection to what you worship to god in spirit and spread the news of gods kingdom, is what is need for salvation, to be included in gods kingdom on earth.
when i grew up with my parents going to KH i went from age 4-17. 1970's and 1980's. i was taught different than what they say now. not trying to bash you at all i have great respect for you, but my point is that no one is going to be 100% correct. that trying to put up a front that one is more knowledgable or rightous than another or correct is very judgmental and thats excatley how i was brought up within the JW. JW is right everyone else is wrong if your not a JW then you going to be cast away with satan.
i was taught that jesus was god's son – now they say he was a god also but not THE GOD. that he created all by means of GOD. i was taught that god created all only. then they only mentioned that there was one god jehovah and that those back then worshiped false gods, god's that are man made not real gods. now they say there are many gods but only one true god. thts not the same as what they implied.
i have noticed that they have become a little less strict than when i grew up, point is i think christianity is the way but you need to have it your driving goal in life and all other things will come to you to be able to live a nice life. trying to show oneself as being more strict or trying harder to look as if there flesh actions are more pure or rightous means nothing.
maybe others don't go door to door to prach maybe they d oit on the internet or with friends or in suttle ways, thats just as good as knocking on a door.
theres seems to be too much arguements and trying to say one is better or right than the other when that maters not.
god and christ your guide in life, love others as yourself and preach the good news you have is what matters only.
i do not go to any church right now and am trying to not be one sided as i was growing up in a religion. i want to learn and except it for myself. my fiancee is a luthern, i told her i was taught not to believe the trinity, she said whats that , i said thats what lutherns believe. what do you mean what is that i said to her, that they are all one being one person, she told me that she wasn't taught that, that they taught jesus was god's son. so i'm not sure if all teachings of trinity are the same then.
Quote (peace2all @ Dec. 23 2009,10:52) i'm reading the greatest man who ever lived right now, and what rings out is that he said for those needed to have faith in him and worship in spirit and truth. that if you worship and praise god almighty as the only true god and walk in life trying to follow his laws and that you have faith in him (christ jesus) and live your life in reflection to what you worship to god in spirit and spread the news of gods kingdom, is what is need for salvation, to be included in gods kingdom on earth.
when i grew up with my parents going to KH i went from age 4-17. 1970's and 1980's. i was taught different than what they say now. not trying to bash you at all i have great respect for you, but my point is that no one is going to be 100% correct. that trying to put up a front that one is more knowledgable or rightous than another or correct is very judgmental and thats excatley how i was brought up within the JW. JW is right everyone else is wrong if your not a JW then you going to be cast away with satan.
i was taught that jesus was god's son – now they say he was a god also but not THE GOD. that he created all by means of GOD. i was taught that god created all only. then they only mentioned that there was one god jehovah and that those back then worshiped false gods, god's that are man made not real gods. now they say there are many gods but only one true god. thts not the same as what they implied.
i have noticed that they have become a little less strict than when i grew up, point is i think christianity is the way but you need to have it your driving goal in life and all other things will come to you to be able to live a nice life. trying to show oneself as being more strict or trying harder to look as if there flesh actions are more pure or rightous means nothing.
maybe others don't go door to door to prach maybe they d oit on the internet or with friends or in suttle ways, thats just as good as knocking on a door.
theres seems to be too much arguements and trying to say one is better or right than the other when that maters not.
god and christ your guide in life, love others as yourself and preach the good news you have is what matters only.
maybe even though he claims they are one still upholds god as the only one to worship and that jesus still is his savior no matter if he's a extention of god or part of god.he'd still be only praising the one true god and holding jesus as his savior
hi david
it is so simple it made me smile when i seen your question,so this is the way i understand it ;first God is the only God everything comes from him he is the source of all things,Christ is the first born of creation ,the only begoten son of God ,everything els has been made through him,this by it self will answer your question,;So nothing being done without gods permition and having Christ to do all what the Father ask this make God the only savior but sinse it was all done through Christ so he became also a savior for is part in the plan of God.Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 23 2009,11:24) hi david
it is so simple it made me smile when i seen your question,so this is the way i understand it ;first God is the only God everything comes from him he is the source of all things,Christ is the first born of creation ,the only begoten son of God ,everything els has been made through him,this by it self will answer your question,;So nothing being done without gods permition and having Christ to do all what the Father ask this make God the only savior but sinse it was all done through Christ so he became also a savior for is part in the plan of God.
yup, ultimatley its been god's plan from the start, jesus does only the will of his father. we all need to do his will only that has been the message from the start.
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