The young are leaving their churches

[Proclaimer]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704111704575355311122648100.html

Quote from the above page is in blue below.

'How can we stop the oil gusher?” may have been the question of the summer for most Americans. Yet for many evangelical pastors and leaders, the leaking well is nothing compared to the threat posed by an ongoing gusher of a different sort: Young people pouring out of their churches, never to return.

As a 27-year-old evangelical myself, I understand the concern. My peers, many of whom grew up in the church, are losing interest in the Christian establishment.

Recent statistics have shown an increasing exodus of young people from churches, especially after they leave home and live on their own. In a 2007 study, Lifeway Research determined that 70% of young Protestant adults between 18-22 stop attending church regularly.

Statistics like these have created something of a mania in recent years, as baby-boomer evangelical leaders frantically assess what they have done wrong (why didn't megachurches work to attract youth in the long term?) and scramble to figure out a plan to keep young members engaged in the life of the church.

I myself don't necessarily see this as a bad thing.

The old denominational system isn't really working and I see them as divisions more so than local communities.

The Church needs to realise what the Church really is i.e., the Body of Christ, and the sooner believers realise that they are the Church where ever they are, the better we can come under the head, Jesus Christ, rather than a CEO of a denomination.

What happens when you put new wine into old wine skins?

[chosenone]

Hi t8.
You have touched on a really interesting topic. You are correct when you say “The Church needs to realise what the Church really is i.e., the Body of Christ”. I myself, realised that the so-called churches are just groups that have a common belief in what “must be done” to be saved. We, my wife and I, attended many different denomenations trying to find one we felt preached “the word of God” in truth. What we found, and this was of God, not of ourselves, that there was nothing we could do to earn our salvation, there was no church that preached this truth. It was revealed to us by the “Holy Spirit of God”, that there is nothing we can do to earn our salvation, that “all is of God, all is by Him, through Him, and for Him”. (Ro.11:36)
I realise that few believe the same as we do, but God is “in Him in Whom our lot was cast also, being designated beforehand according to the purpose of the One Who is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will, (Eph.1:11).
We do not choose God, He chooses us, in His time. Eventually He will be “All in all”, as in 1Cor.15: 28… Now, whenever all may be subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also shall be subjected to Him Who subjects all to Him, that God may be All in all.)
This is how I see it, scripture says so.

God Bless, Jerry.

[GeneBalthrop]

Jerry…………I see it that way to brother.

peace and love to you and yours……………………….gene

[terraricca]

Quote (chosenone @ Aug. 18 2010,21:25)

Hi t8.   You have touched on a really interesting topic.  You are correct when you say “The Church needs to realise what the Church really is i.e., the Body of Christ”.  I myself, realised that the so-called churches are just groups that have a common belief in what “must be done” to be saved.  We, my wife and I, attended many different denomenations trying to find one we felt preached “the word of God” in truth.  What we found, and this was of God, not of ourselves, that there was nothing we could do to earn our salvation, there was no church that preached this truth.  It was revealed to us by the “Holy Spirit of God”, that there is nothing we can do to earn our salvation, that “all is of God, all is by Him, through Him, and for Him”. (Ro.11:36)     I realise that few believe the same as we do, but God is “in Him in Whom our lot was cast also, being designated beforehand according to the purpose of the One Who is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will, (Eph.1:11).   We do not choose God, He chooses us, in His time.  Eventually He will be “All in all”, as in 1Cor.15: 28… Now, whenever all may be subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also shall be subjected to Him Who subjects all to Him, that God may be All in all.)   This is how I see it, scripture says so. God Bless,  Jerry.

CO

your believe annulled the very words of Christ the Son of God,

Mt 12:37 For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.”

Mk 8:38 If anyone is ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his Father’s glory with the holy angels.”

Lk 6:47 I will show you what he is like who comes to me and hears my words and puts them into practice.
Lk 6:49 But the one who hears my words and does not put them into practice is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation. The moment the torrent struck that house, it collapsed and its destruction was complete

Jn 12:48 There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day.

Jn 14:24 He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also.
Jn 17:8 For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me

SO IF YOU CAN NOT DO ANYTHING THEN HOW CAN YOU BE JUDGED;??
HOW CAN YOU ACT ON SOMETHING WERE YOU HAVE NO SAYING??

HOW CAN YOU REJECT THE WORD OF GOD IF YOU HAVE NO PART IN IT??

WHY WOULD JESUS SHOW THE APOSTLES ;LUKE 6-47 IF WE HAVE NO RESPONSABILITY OF OUR ACTIONS ??

MEGA CHURCHES ARE MEN MADE ORGANISATION TO PLUNDER THE WEALTH OF THE WORLD,AND SO ARE PAID FOR SERVICES RENDERED TO GOD.(THE SPRAITING OF GOD WORD THE BIBLE)NOT THERE PHYLOSOPHY.

Pierre

[chosenone]

Pierre.
The words of Jesus in the four gospels were for Israel, and them alone, (Matt.15:24) while still under the “old covenant” and “the law”. You must try and understand that in that era, the “nations” had no part with God. (Eph.2:11-12)
You misunderstand scripture if you do not 'correctly cut the word of truth' (2Ti.2:15)

God Bless, Jerry.

[Baker]

Quote (chosenone @ Aug. 19 2010,13:51)

Pierre.   The words of Jesus in the four gospels were for Israel, and them alone, (Matt.15:24) while still under the “old covenant” and “the law”.  You must try and understand that in that era, the “nations” had no part with God. (Eph.2:11-12)     You misunderstand scripture if you do not 'correctly cut the word of truth' (2Ti.2:15) God Bless,  Jerry.

Jerry! Even though the Old Testament Law always was for the Children of Israel, we have the New Covenant in Luke 22:20 … This cup is the new covenant in My Blood, which has been shed for you. And in Math. 22:37-40 He gave us the Great Commandment….Sin is not imputed to us however. That gives us no license to sin though. Jesus also magnified the Law on the Sermon on the Mount and made it spiritual…As far as the young leaving the Churches, I go along with t8, we are the body the Church and it is not in a building made with hands…..
Peace Irene

[terraricca]

Quote (chosenone @ Aug. 19 2010,20:51)

Pierre.   The words of Jesus in the four gospels were for Israel, and them alone, (Matt.15:24) while still under the “old covenant” and “the law”.  You must try and understand that in that era, the “nations” had no part with God. (Eph.2:11-12)     You misunderstand scripture if you do not 'correctly cut the word of truth' (2Ti.2:15) God Bless,  Jerry.

CO

you must be half Jew and half something else,because you flip flop from one to the other,

you try to confuse me ,i may not be fluent in written english but i am very fluent in scriptures,and i know my GOD ,

you still looking for yours i guess?
because you do not believe a word that Christ has said.

Pierre

[chosenone]

Hi Pierre.
I do believe every word Jesus ha said, unlike you. Jesus said in Matt.15:24 …”I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” You obviously do not believe in what He said, you seem to think that His message was to you. Do you not understand what He said? Are you blind to scripture?
You accuse me by saying…

Quote

you must be half Jew and half something else,because you flip flop from one to the other,

You say you are “a Christian”, but you treat me poorly in your posts. I sure don't feel any love from you, just false accusations that you won't explain, such as this… “,because you flip flop from one to the other”. Please show me where I have “flip floped”, I'll not hold my breath.

Blessings, Jerry.

[terraricca]

Quote (chosenone @ Aug. 20 2010,17:18)

Hi Pierre.   I do believe every word Jesus ha said, unlike you.  Jesus said in Matt.15:24   …”I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”   You obviously do not believe in what He said, you seem to think that His message was to you.  Do you not understand what He said? Are you blind to scripture?    You accuse me by saying… Quote you must be half Jew and half something else,because you flip flop from one to the other,   You say you are “a Christian”, but you treat me poorly in your posts.  I sure don't feel any love from you, just false accusations that you won't explain, such as this… “,because you flip flop from one to the other”.   Please show me where I have “flip floped”, I'll not hold my breath. Blessings,  Jerry.

CO

you right wen you say you not feel much christian love from me,

i do give my love all day long to strangers,people i do not know,
but you CO i know and we have discuss many subject in scriptures,and i have not find one reason to support lies and twisted meanings.

as for your coment;Jn 10:14 “I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me—
Jn 10:15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep.
Jn 10:16 I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd.

so there is more and all things apply to all;forever.
and i lessen to Christ word all the time

Pierre

[chosenone]

Hi Pierre.
I cannot compete with one so perfect like you. You have the “truth” and according to you I have no understanding of scripture. If you would like to show me examples of what you say…

Quote

but you CO i know and we have discuss many subject in scriptures,and i have not find one reason to support lies and twisted meanings.

Please do quote some of my posts as an example, it may give some credability to your accusations.

Jerry.

[terraricca]

CO

Group: Mods
Posts: 2155
Joined: Dec. 2009 Posted: July 12 2010,18:55

——————————————————————————–
Jerry,

What Karmarie wrote is correct.

Beware how you belittle the words of those who speak truth – I have warned you before on this and others also.

How many times are you going to post this nonesense? What is it you fear – that you can do what you like and still be saved.

I am getting a feeling that I know what your problem is.

You have done something AWFUL in the past…

Jerry, talking yourself into believing that even the wicked will be saved is not the way to gain salvation. Pray to God through Jesus and beg for his forgiveness – repent of your sin(s), confess your new loyalty and commitment to follow Jesus and ask for the guidance of God's Holy Spirit.

Even Saul/Paul who helped murder the early Jewish Christians was 'forgiven' – you can too, if you truly confess. We cannot and don't judge – for your sin is greater than that which can be judged by man (That is, IMPARTIALLY).

Seek the least, seek life in Christ on Paradise Earth.
But first:
confess your sins;
repress your fleshly desires;
profess your belief in God, and in Christ;

Edited by JustAskin on July 12 2010,18:56

[terraricca]

CO here is one more;chosenone

Group: Members
Posts: 2451
Joined: Mar. 2007 Posted: Aug. 01 2010,13:39

——————————————————————————–
Hi Gene.
Thanks for your support, much appreciated. Yes, though we must be patient to those not yet being called. Scripture says in Ro.11:32 … For God locks up all together in stubbornness, that He should be merciful to all.
Thank God He is in “COMPLETE CONTROL”, All is of God, who is the saviour of all mankind. (1Tim.4:9-11)

God Bless, Jerry.

and CO wen you comment on a forum it is open to all ,and i never claimed to be perfect.

you have been trained to act and speak in a way to convince people ,i notice that ,but mainly to people who do not have understanding in scripture,so you need to work like group therapy.

Pierre

[chosenone]

Pierre.
Thanks for the insults,

Quote

you must be half Jew and half something else,because you flip flop from one to the other,

Quote

you still looking for yours i guess? because you do not believe a word that Christ has said.

Quote

CO i know and we have discuss many subject in scriptures,and i have not find one reason to support lies and twisted meanings.

Quote

I am getting a feeling that I know what your problem is. You have done something AWFUL in the past…

Quote

you have been trained to act and speak in a way to convince people ,i notice that ,but mainly to people who do not have understanding in scripture,so you need to work like group therapy.

All the above nonsense that you accuse me of is a figment of your imaginations. None are even close to what you imagine, it is an insult for you to even think of me in this light. I feel to comminicate with you is like blowing into the wind, you are full of yourself, and can't even reason inteligently. You have no understanding of what scripture is about, you are like the blind leading the blind.
This will be my last post to you, God Bless.

Jerry.

[GeneBalthrop]

Chosenone……….Terricca fulfill a role here as the accuser of the brethren , so in a sense he exercises our ability to endure and stay stead fast to the word of GOD.

peace and love to you and yours brother…………………………………gene

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (t8 @ Aug. 16 2010,05:15)

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704111704575355311122648100.html Quote from the above page is in blue below. 'How can we stop the oil gusher?” may have been the question of the summer for most Americans. Yet for many evangelical pastors and leaders, the leaking well is nothing compared to the threat posed by an ongoing gusher of a different sort: Young people pouring out of their churches, never to return. As a 27-year-old evangelical myself, I understand the concern. My peers, many of whom grew up in the church, are losing interest in the Christian establishment. Recent statistics have shown an increasing exodus of young people from churches, especially after they leave home and live on their own. In a 2007 study, Lifeway Research determined that 70% of young Protestant adults between 18-22 stop attending church regularly. Statistics like these have created something of a mania in recent years, as baby-boomer evangelical leaders frantically assess what they have done wrong (why didn't megachurches work to attract youth in the long term?) and scramble to figure out a plan to keep young members engaged in the life of the church. I myself don't necessarily see this as a bad thing. The old denominational system isn't really working and I see them as divisions more so than local communities. The Church needs to realise what the Church really is i.e., the Body of Christ, and the sooner believers realise that they are the Church where ever they are, the better we can come under the head, Jesus Christ, rather than a CEO of a denomination. What happens when you put new wine into old wine skins?

im glad

[terraricca]

Quote (chosenone @ Aug. 21 2010,17:34)

Pierre.   Thanks for the insults, Quote you must be half Jew and half something else,because you flip flop from one to the other, Quote you still looking for yours i guess? because you do not believe a word that Christ has said. Quote CO i know and we have discuss many subject in scriptures,and i have not find one reason to support lies and twisted meanings. Quote I am getting a feeling that I know what your problem is. You have done something AWFUL in the past… Quote you have been trained to act and speak in a way to convince people ,i notice that ,but mainly to people who do not have understanding in scripture,so you need to work like group therapy. All the above nonsense that you accuse me of is a figment of your imaginations.  None are even close to what you imagine, it is an insult for you to even think of me in this light.  I feel to comminicate with you is like blowing into the wind, you are full of yourself, and can't even reason inteligently.  You have no understanding of what scripture is about, you are like the blind leading the blind.  This will be my last post to you, God Bless. Jerry.

hi CO

yes you always will take advantage to what you regard as the more beneficial to you,

you know at the time of Christ;there where two groups who add similar believes except that one believed in the resurrection and the other one not,

i find strange that i have no knowledge that their was one apostle who was Sadducee,

they stayed away of Christ ,or to try to mock him with there questions.

I am a believer in the preexistence of Christ;because ;Jn 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Jn 1:15 John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’

and this;Jn 3:13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man

and this one;Jn 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

Jn 14:23 Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
Jn 14:24 He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

THOSE WORDS ARE CHRIST WORDS NOT MINE,IF YOU DO NOT BELIEVE CHRIST THEN YOU DO NOT BELIEVE HIS FATHER ,GOD ,but i do and that s why oppose you.

you as well believe in predetermination ,i do not because i am not a robot,AND I CHOOSE TO SERVE MY GOD,WITH ALL MY HEART ,and you do not; this is why i oppose you.

Pierre

[Baker]

Quote (t8 @ Aug. 16 2010,11:15)

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704111704575355311122648100.html Quote from the above page is in blue below. 'How can we stop the oil gusher?” may have been the question of the summer for most Americans. Yet for many evangelical pastors and leaders, the leaking well is nothing compared to the threat posed by an ongoing gusher of a different sort: Young people pouring out of their churches, never to return. As a 27-year-old evangelical myself, I understand the concern. My peers, many of whom grew up in the church, are losing interest in the Christian establishment. Recent statistics have shown an increasing exodus of young people from churches, especially after they leave home and live on their own. In a 2007 study, Lifeway Research determined that 70% of young Protestant adults between 18-22 stop attending church regularly. Statistics like these have created something of a mania in recent years, as baby-boomer evangelical leaders frantically assess what they have done wrong (why didn't megachurches work to attract youth in the long term?) and scramble to figure out a plan to keep young members engaged in the life of the church. I myself don't necessarily see this as a bad thing. The old denominational system isn't really working and I see them as divisions more so than local communities. The Church needs to realise what the Church really is i.e., the Body of Christ, and the sooner believers realise that they are the Church where ever they are, the better we can come under the head, Jesus Christ, rather than a CEO of a denomination. What happens when you put new wine into old wine skins?

t8

Younger generation, teenager and young adults, see the hypocrisy, not only in their own parents, but in the many different denominations. Every minister claims to have the truth, but none really line up with each other. The only thing they have in common is the rapture, and I think, young people begin to doubt that too.
Just look at this forum, is this not a reflection of the many churches we have? no one agrees, but all claim they have the truth. I'm not surprised at all.

Georg

[chosenone]

Georg.

Quote

Younger generation, teenager and young adults, see the hypocrisy, not only in their own parents, but in the many different denominations. Every minister claims to have the truth, but none really line up with each other. The only thing they have in common is the rapture, and I think, young people begin to doubt that too. Just look at this forum, is this not a reflection of the many churches we have? no one agrees, but all claim they have the truth. I'm not surprised at all. Georg

There is some truth to what you post, I'll have to agree.

God Bless, Jerry.

[Proclaimer]

It is clear that the wicked shall perish/ be destroyed.
Even the most quoted verse of the bible agrees. (John 3:16).
Rather than expand this topic, (as this one is about the Church), here is a study on this subject:
https://heavennet.net/answers/answer26.htm

[chosenone]

Quote (t8 @ Aug. 23 2010,11:12)

It is clear that the wicked shall perish/ be destroyed. Even the most quoted verse of the bible agrees. (John 3:16). Rather than expand this topic, (as this one is about the Church), here is a study on this subject: https://heavennet.net/answers/answer26.htm

Hi t8.
I will have to disagree with your statement…”It is clear that the wicked shall perish/ be destroyed”.
Seeing that this is not the topic of this thread, I'll post a reply to this statement in a new topic in “Truth or tradition”.
It is titled “Gods Great Love”, hope you will read it.

God Bless, Jerry

[Author]

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