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How about you, Berean? Does the God you worship and serve as the Creator of heaven, earth, sea, and everything in them have a son and servant named Jesus Christ?
Mike
Jésus IS THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD. (John3:16)
BEGOTTEN, NOT CREATED…
HE IS BEFORE ALL THINGS(created)
AND BY HIM ALL THINGS CONSIST.(Col.1:17)
AMEN! 😐
Hi Berean. Please just directly answer my question as I asked it. Does the God you worship as the Creator of heaven, earth, sea, and all that in them is have a son and servant named Jesus Christ? Yes or No?
Mike,
You said:
But you’ll have to concede that every single one of those things that “existed” before they passed through the birth canal DIDN’T exist before their pre-birth “existence”.
Did the Son exist before Mary conceived? You claim that the Son existed at the beginning of creation before Mary ever conceived. So, there is that…also this:
Hebrews 7:9And so to speak, Levi, who collects the tenth, paid the tenth through Abraham. 10For when Melchizedek met Abraham, Levi was still in the loin of his ancestor.
And this…the LORD speaking to Jeremiah:
Jeremiah 1:4Now the word of the LORD came to me, saying,
5“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,
And before you were born I consecrated you;
I have appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”
So, the Son existed before He was conceived in Mary and Levi existed before his parents, Jacob and Leah knew each other and Jeremiah was known before being formed in the womb as a future prophet to the nations. There are three examples of ones in existence in some manner before they were ever conceived.
The Son was the eternal life that was with the Father from the beginning 1 John 1.
According to you, Mike, the Son was not the eternal life that was with the Father from the beginning.
Mike,
You asked about John 10:33 and that it should be translated as “a god.” My answer is no, it is translated as “God” and not “a god” as it should be because of what it says in this verse:
John 5:18
For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/5-18.htm
There is the article “the” in front of each mention of “God” there if you look at the interlinear for that verse. It is not ambiguious. Also note that Jesus called God “His OWN” Father. The Greek word for “own” is in the emphatic form just as the verse Berean wrote where Jesus is God’s OWN Son. That also is the emphatic form. BTW, here is another example of “His OWN”:
John 1: 9There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man. 10He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. 12But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
Check out the several verses with that same Greek word for “own” here:
https://biblehub.com/greek/strongs_2398.htm
Mike,
You said:
Christ himself blinds their minds so they can’t see the light that displays his own glory? Does that really make any sense to you?
John 12:40“HE HAS BLINDED THEIR EYES AND HE HARDENED THEIR HEART, SO THAT THEY WOULD NOT SEE WITH THEIR EYES AND PERCEIVE WITH THEIR HEART, AND BE CONVERTED AND I HEAL THEM.”
According to you, Mike, that “he” that “has blinded” so they would not be converted and healed should be satan and not the LORD but you would be wrong.
John 12:40 is about Isaiah 6:
8Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying: “Whom shall I send? Who will go for Us?” And I said: “Here am I. Send me!” 9And He replied: “Go and tell this people, ‘Be ever hearing, but never understanding; be ever seeing, but never perceiving.’ 10Make the hearts of this people calloused; deafen their ears and close their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and turn and be healed.”…Berean Study Bible · Download
Deut 29: 4“Yet to this day the LORD has not given you a heart to know, nor eyes to see, nor ears to hear.
The God of this age is Jesus. He has all authority in heaven and on earth, not satan.
Hi Berean,
You said this:
AND WHAT A SON AND SERVANT!
That “servant” you write of is called Yahweh at times and served with creating the universe, is that what you believe?
Blessings, LU
Berean,
Regarding my question to you here:
That “servant” you write of is called Yahweh at times and served with creating the universe, is that what you believe?
You said: My answer is a BIG YES!
Amen!
Now, please confirm that you believe the Father is called Yahweh and His own Son is called Yahweh and both are involved in bringing about creation and they are one in unity…correct?
Hi LU
THE FATHER AND SON HAVE THE SAME FAMILY’S DIVINE NAME :YAHWEH
JESUS or Yeshua is the name OF the Son as man in the flesh.
They worked together in the work of creation and went on together for the work of re-creation (redemption) of mankind.
They are ONE IN SPIRIT (MIND), IN HEARTH,
IN GOAL, BUT NOT IN PERSON(they are two divines distinct persons)
Amen!
God bless us.
Mike: Hi Berean…
Does the God you worship as the Creator of heaven, earth, sea, and all that in them is have a son and servant named Jesus Christ? Yes or No?
Berean: THE ANSWER IS YES .
Your turn, Kathi. Same question. What is your direct answer? Yes or No, please.
Mike: But you’ll have to concede that every single one of those things that “existed” before they passed through the birth canal DIDN’T exist before their pre-birth “existence”.
LU: Did the Son exist before Mary conceived?
Hmm… Many will be resurrected from the dead to live again. They will also have existed before being begotten by God. Of course you know that’s not the point I’m making, don’t you?
LU: Hebrews 7:9… For when Melchizedek met Abraham, Levi was still in the loin of his ancestor.
And do you understand that to mean that Levi literally existed as a living, thinking, sentient being while in the loins of his ancestor?
LU: “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”
Same question. Does God saying He knew Jeremiah before he was formed mean Jeremiah existed as a sentient being and knew God before he was formed?
LU: There are three examples of ones in existence in some manner before they were ever conceived.
I saw one example that we all already knew about. It is clear from scripture that Jesus existed in a spirit state before God sent him to be born of a woman and exist in a flesh state. Then he existed in a death state. And then again in his former spirit state.
Your other two examples don’t involve people who literally existed as sentient beings before they were passed through the birth canal, and therefore don’t apply to my point.
LU: The Son was the eternal life that was with the Father from the beginning 1 John 1.
According to you, Mike, the Son was not the eternal life that was with the Father from the beginning.
God has no beginning and no end, right? But many scriptures about Jesus include a beginning…
“In the beginning, the Word was with THE God…” (John 1:1)
“That which was from the beginning…” (1 John 1:1)
“Out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times.” (Micah 5:2)
“Yahweh created me as the beginning of his works…” (Proverbs 8:22)
“These things say the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God…” (Rev 3:14)
“Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature…” (Col 1:15)
Look at all of those BEGINNINGS, Kathi. Remember that, “In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth” too. The word “beginning”, in and of itself, means that the heaven and earth did not exist from eternity like God did. That same word means the same thing when it comes to Jesus.
As far as “the eternal life” in 1 John 1:2, that is true. Jesus has been granted eternal life by his and our God, and has even been granted authority by his and our God to give eternal life to others.
But I think you misunderstand the word “eternal” there. You seem to think it means “FROM eternity”. It does not. It means “TO eternity”. Here’s the same word…
Matthew 19:29… And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life.
None of those who will inherit eternal life are “FROM eternity”, Kathi. Neither does 1 John 1:2 imply that Jesus is “FROM eternity”. And all of the “beginning” verses about Jesus make it abundantly clear that he is not. Only his and our God, Yahweh, is FROM eternity.
LU: You asked about John 10:33 and that it should be translated as “a god.” My answer is no, it is translated as “God” and not “a god” as it should be because of what it says in this verse:
John 5:18
For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.
As for John 5:18, just one question to start it off: Do you think Jesus is literally equal to the Father in every single way, and that this is what the Jews meant by their statement?
As for John 10:33…
Do you believe that the Jews thought that Jesus was making himself out to be the Most High God that no man has ever seen? As if Jesus was literally trying to convince people that he was the very God who dwells in unapproachable light – whom no man can see and live?
That should get us going. I’m not too interested in 5:18, but I REALLY want to delve into 10:33.
LU: The God of this age is Jesus. He has all authority in heaven and on earth, not satan.
You are wrong, but it doesn’t matter. I just remembered why we even started talking about 2 Cor 4:4. You asked for an example of Satan being called a god in scripture. 2 Cor 4:4 was one of the examples I gave you.
If you don’t understand that verse as virtually every Bible translator (Bible Hub lists only ONE translation that caps the “G” in “god” in 4:4… https://biblehub.com/2_corinthians/4-4.htm) and commentator in history has, it’s okay by me. There are still other verses that make it clear that Satan is a god – just like Jesus, Baal, Michael, Dagon, Gabriel, and Ashteroth are.
The story of the Bible isn’t literally one god, Kathi. The story of the Bible is a ton of different gods, and one Most High God of all the other gods.
Yahweh is that Most High God of gods. Jesus is one of the other gods of whom Yahweh is God. It remains the same today, even after Jesus’ God granted him full authority over heaven and earth…
Revelation 3:12… The one who is victorious I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will they leave it. I will write on them the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on them my new name.
That is Jesus talking. He had already been exalted to the right hand of God at this time, and had already been given all authority over heaven and earth (for a while). Yet here he is, still exalting his own God (who he himself explicitly told us is also OUR God).
Kathi and Berean: Is the God you worship and serve as Creator of heaven, earth, sea, and everything in them also Jesus’ God – like Jesus told you He was? (“I go now to my Father and your Father, my God and your God.”) Yes or No, please.
Kathi, I also just noticed something in Rev 3:12 that might be huge. Notice that Jesus is going to write on them (1) the name of his God, (2) the name of the city of his God, ie: New Jerusalem, and (3) his own new name.
What the freak? Is that Jesus telling us point blank that “Yahweh Our Righteousness” IS the name of New Jerusalem, Jesus, and Jesus’ own God Yahweh?
What do you guys think?
LU: Berean…
Now, please confirm that you believe the Father is called Yahweh and His own Son is called Yahweh and both are involved in bringing about creation and they are one in unity…correct?
Kathi, now please confirm that the God you worship and serve as the Creator of heaven and earth has a Son named Jesus.
Also please confirm that the God you worship and serve as the Creator of heaven and earth is the One that Jesus himself told us was his and our God.
Thanks.
Berean: They are ONE IN SPIRIT (MIND), IN HEARTH,
IN GOAL, BUT NOT IN PERSON(they are two divines distinct persons)
Hi Berean. Two points…
1. Luke 22:42… “Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.”
This verse makes it clear that Jesus has his own will that is different from the will of his Father and God, Yahweh. Jesus was such a good servant because he aligned his own differing will TO the will of his God, and did the will of his and our God despite it not being what he himself willed.
2. They are not only two distinct persons, as you pointed out. They are also two distinct gods. One is the unbegotten Most High God of all other gods. The other one is one of those other gods that the Most High God is the God of.
I learned these things directly from the scriptures. Do you agree with these scriptural teachings?
Hi Mike
They are not only two distinct persons, as you pointed out. They are also two distinct gods.
Me
Show me the apostles of Christ speaking this way, please.
Mike,
The God that I worship as the creator is Yahweh who is both the Father and the Son together, two distinct persons who created the world in unity. So, your answer is “NO,” the Father and the Son together as the creator do not have a son named Jesus, the Son who created with the Father as Yahweh, is Jesus.
Let US make man… The “US” do not have a son named Jesus. Jesus is part of the “US.”
Mike,
You asked:
Kathi, I also just noticed something in Rev 3:12 that might be huge. Notice that Jesus is going to write on them (1) the name of his God, (2) the name of the city of his God, ie: New Jerusalem, and (3) his own new name.
What the freak? Is that Jesus telling us point blank that “Yahweh Our Righteousness” IS the name of New Jerusalem, Jesus, and Jesus’ own God Yahweh?
I have wondered that same thing. Is this you finally admitting that Jesus will be named “Yahweh our Righteousness?”
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