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Quote (Mr. Steve @ Aug. 16 2007,11:14) CB; You believe that Father is Jehovah. You believe Christ is Jehovah? Is Christ divided? Is God somehow divided? Please correct me if I've misrepresented you, but are not you stating that both the Father and the Son are Jehovah? I'm going to need some clarification if you want me to know what you believe.
Steven
Mr Steve. It is hard for you to understand because of your arian indoctrination.JESUS IS JEHOVAH
THE FATHER IS JEHOVAH
THE HOLY SPIRIT IS JEHOVAH.Why do you find this so difficult? There are three divine Beings in the Godhead. Each is called Jehovah in the Bible. It is so easy to understand.
2Pe 3:16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable pervert, as also they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction).
1. Jehovah the Father.
2. Christ is Jehovah.
Jer 23:5-6 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD (Jehovah)OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.3. Jehovah the Holy Spirit.
Compare
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD(JEHOVAH) I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD (JEHOVAH): for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD (JEHOVAH): for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.With
Heb 10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Conclusion. The Holy Ghost = Jehovah
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
2Pe 3:16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable pervert, as also they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.
Quote (Cult Buster @ Aug. 27 2007,01:33) Quote (Mr. Steve @ Aug. 16 2007,11:14) CB; You believe that Father is Jehovah. You believe Christ is Jehovah? Is Christ divided? Is God somehow divided? Please correct me if I've misrepresented you, but are not you stating that both the Father and the Son are Jehovah? I'm going to need some clarification if you want me to know what you believe.
Steven
Mr Steve. It is hard for you to understand because of your arian indoctrination.JESUS IS JEHOVAH
THE FATHER IS JEHOVAH
THE HOLY SPIRIT IS JEHOVAH.Why do you find this so difficult? There are three divine Beings in the Godhead. Each is called Jehovah in the Bible. It is so easy to understand.
2Pe 3:16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable pervert, as also they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction).
Cult buster…..> why doesn't the bible just say Jesus is Almighty God and if it does like you lying trinitarians say we come back to the simple statement of Jesus himeself, “FOR THOU ART THE (ONLY) TRUE GOD. And while you critizise others of their language problems, what part of (THOU) don't you understand and what part of (ONLY) don't you understand. Seams to me you lack basic English Skills yourself. And when Jesus was Praying and saying (THY) kingdom come (THY) WILL be done. Who was the (THY) he was talking about, in you confusion you think he was talking to himself, right?. And you say is Jesus devided, well you must think so, because Jesus Said He came (NOT) to do his (WILL) but the (WILL) of Him who sent him. Again why are there two (WILL”S) mentioned then. And doesn't it say God does all things after the council of His (OWN WILL), my you have a delima then, go figure that out before you come here and accuse of twisting scriptures to there own destruction when it obivious to anyone who has the Spirit of God in them who is twisting the scriptures to their own descruction. And another thing if you look up the “I Am That I AM” you will find it means ( I AM What I AM) another words God will be whatever He will be. Because He (ALONE) is GOD. And Jesus Said quoted the old testement ” hear O Isreal the LORD our GOD is one Lord. not two or three triune God's as you lying trinitarians are saying. Again you trinitarians are like Jesus said ” you strain out a gnat and swallow a camel. You are so confused you ignore the obivious. Do you even know that a Son cant be a Father or is your thinking so screw up you cant even figure that out either. You have been feed a LIE and believe it. Thank's be to God that He has at least Shown and preserved a few through the Truth……….geneCB;
OK so all three are Jehovah. Do you believe that Jehovah means Lord? If you do I can see your reasoning. Do you believe that Jehovah Son worships Jehovah Father? Do you believe that Jehovah the Father sent Jehovah the Son? Do you believe that Jehovah Father is the God of Jehovah the Son?
Steven
There has on this forum been much confusion between Christ’s mission or “office” as Messiah and that of His substance which is The Eternal God. Some myopically focus on Christ's incarnation as a man, yet they ignore the overwhelming evidence of His deity. When confronted with these truths they then try to “dance around” them.
When Christ was to leave heaven and was to take the form of a man He did not cease to be God. He simply put aside His own divine power and was dependent on God for power. This makes Him our example to follow because we too are to depend totally on God.
Some on this forum just want to look at Bible verses that are in the context of Christ mission as Messiah but don't like when shown the multitude of scripture identifying Him as the divine Jehovah God. They wish that He will stay eternally incarnate. For some, this is willful blindness which is sin.
Jesus Christ is the creator, not a creature and will always be equal to the Father in this sense. Jn 1:1 says, “and the word was God”.
However, before the incarnation, Jesus made a choice to submit to the Father as His head. He had to live in His humanity as a man depending on God for power. Jesus did not give up being God, He was subject to and obeying the Father while living as a man or within the context of He being Messiah and High Priest which is still continuing
Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
He had to overcome Satan while living as a man. Christ did not come to earth to show what a God can do, but what man can do when he depends on God for power. He succeeded where Adam failed.
Heb 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
Heb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
Heb 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
A human body was fashioned for Christ. A body which had sinful propensities just like ours. A body less than what Adam had, weakened by the curse of sin.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Christ condemned sin in the flesh. He resisted sin. Don’t forget that He laid aside His divine power and did not use it for His own benefit, overcoming temptation relying on God for power. We too can resist temptation if we rely on God for power. Christ was our example.
Phi 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Phi 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Phi 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Phi 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.Heb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
Heb 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.Luk 4:2 (Jesus) Being forty days tempted of the devil.
Luk 4:12 And Jesus answering said unto him, It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.Who was being tempted here? Jesus; The Lord thy God
1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Mat 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among usThere are some instances in the scripture where Jesus calls the Father..His God and says the Father is greater than I.
In these instances Jesus was encumbered with humanity or within the context of Him being the Messiah. Don’t forget that Christ is still ministering for us right now as our High Priest in the heavenly sanctuary. So His mission as Messiah and High Priest is not yet over.
Even within the Godhead each Divine Person recognise and have reverence for the other as God.
Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
The phrase “O God” is a worshipful phrase indicating the reverence each Person of the Godhead have one for another. Each recognises the other as their God. Each are willing to submit one to the other.
Within the Godhead a plan was made for the salvation of man. It is evident that each divine Person within the Godhead takes on a different office or role. It is a pity that we too cannot learn the character and humility of God.
Jesus said.
Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.
Joh 10:31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God
The Pharisees understood that Jesus was claiming deity and equality with God, that is why they tried to stone Him.
Jesus could have told them that they misunderstood Him, but He didn't. Jesus knew that the Pharisees understood His assertion of deity and did not correct them.
Jesus could have said “Listen fellas, you misunderstood me. I was not blaspheming by claiming to be God.” But Jesus did not correct them, thus confirming His deity to them.
It seems that the Pharisees had better understanding of Jesus' words than many on this forum.
Jn 1:1 says, “and the word was God”, referring to Jesus.
However, before the incarnation, Jesus made a choice to submit to the Father as His head. He had to live in His humanity as a man depending on God for power. Jesus did not give up being God, He was subject to and obeying the Father while living as a man.
The Father would maintain the head position and He would become the central One to pray to. He does not minister to us in the direct way of the Son and Holy Spirit. He would not have the central focus to save mankind and to eventually be as highly exalted as the Saviour. He is self effacing in this respect.
Each member of the Godhead took on a position that was selfless to the extreme and thus revealing the character of God.
Jesus said
Luk 22:69 Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God.
The right hand of power is metaphor meaning that all authority belongs to Christ. That is all authority. Can you imagine the Godhead relinquishing all their authority to a created being? Of course not! Jesus is Jehovah God.
We can see how self effaci
ng each Person of the Godhead is to be willing to submit one to the other.We can now understand better Christ’s statement
Mat 23:11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
We can stand in awe of the great love, humility and even servanthood of the Godhead.
The apostle Paul understood just who Jesus was when he wrote the following
1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
Paul had studied the scriptures that testified of Christ.
Deu 32:3 Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God.
Deu 32:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.
1Sa 2:2 There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God.
1Sa 2:2 There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God.
Psa 78:35 And they remembered that God was their rock, and the high God their redeemer.That is why Paul said
1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
We sometimes see statements like
1 Pet. 1:3, RS: “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ!”
John 5:26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself,
This is also in the context of Christ mission as Messiah.
In these instances Jesus was either encumbered with humanity or within the context of Him being the Messiah. Don’t forget that Christ is still ministering for us right now as our High Priest in the heavenly sanctuary. So His mission as Messiah and High Priest is still continuing.1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
These verses and others have been utilized historically by the Arians (of whom Jehovah's Witnesses are a revival), to try to “prove” that Jesus is lesser than the Father and therefore not God in the flesh.
Upon closer inspection, however, a clearer picture emerges.
See the following.In 1 Cor 15:28, the subjection spoken of is that of the Son as incarnate, not the Son as Son in essence. While this verse tells us that God will be “all in all,”
Colossians 3:11 tells us that “. . . Christ {is} all, and in all.”
Col 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
Consider the verse
“it pleased the Father that in him should all fullness dwell” (Col. 1:19)
In the KJV the words “the Father” are in italics which means that they were provided by the translators. There is no evidence that they belong there at all. There are no Strongs number because the words do not exist.
See the Literal Translation Bible
Col 1:19 because all the fullness was pleased to dwell in Him,MICAH 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, {though} thou be little among the thousands of Judah, {yet} out of thee shall he come forth unto me {that is} to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth {have been} from of old, from everlasting.
JOHN 5:23 That all {men} should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father.
JOHN 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
*TITUS 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
+ACTS 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.*ISAIAH 43:11 I, {even} I, {am} the Lord(Jehovah); and beside me {there is} no saviour.
Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.PHILIPPIANS 2:5-6 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
2Pe 3:16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable pervert, as also they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.
CB;
Who does Christ worship? You say that there is reference within the Godhead for each other as God. Where in scripture does the Father worship the Son?
You let the cat out of the bag when you said that many times when Christ spoke he did so in the context of Messiab or as incarnated. That right there is your error. Go through the scriptures and highlight all the scriptures you have to tweak with this reasoning to fit the trinity doctrine.
Take Care
Steve
Mr Steve…….> cultbuster has been feed lies so long he is indoctrinated with them and so he has to “twist” scripture to give himself some kind of understanding, in order to justify His false position. He simply does not answer simple logical questions put to him, he just ignores then. Doesn't it say in 2Thes2 that because they don't love the truth (GOD) will send them a strong delusion in order for them to believe THE LIE (the trinity doctrine), so if God deludes them only GOD can undelude them. We can only lay out the simple truth thats all. peace to you brother and don't get discouraged by these decieved brain washed trinitarians………..gene
Gene;
Thanks for the encouragement. I believe all of us need the correction and instruction in righteousness that only comes from the Word. But CB is constantly accusing others of twisting the word of God without stating how. All I ask is if you disagree with me tell me why. We're all adults here. Again, thank you for your word to me and may God continue to enlighten you and cause you to grow in him.
Steven
Quote (Mr. Steve @ Aug. 29 2007,08:41) CB; Who does Christ worship? You say that there is reference within the Godhead for each other as God. Where in scripture does the Father worship the Son?
You let the cat out of the bag when you said that many times when Christ spoke he did so in the context of Messiab or as incarnated. That right there is your error. Go through the scriptures and highlight all the scriptures you have to tweak with this reasoning to fit the trinity doctrine.
Take Care
Steve
Mr Steve. If you deny the incarnation, then you deny the gospel.If the Father refers to the Son as God, then I would rather listen to the Father than folk like Gene under the strong delusion of 2Thes2.
Heb 1:8 But to the Son He says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever. A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
2 Thessalonians 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
.
TITUS 2:13 awaiting our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ
Amen and Amen!
2Pe 3:16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable pervert, as also they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.
cultbuster …..> For the hundreth time why can't you answer some simple questions. Let me restate them again.
Who was Jesus talking to when he Said “For thou art the (ONLY) ture God?> or was he lying? What does (thou) MEAN and What does (ONLY) MEAN?
And is Jesus the (WORD) as you lying trintarians say when He plainly said the words he spoke were (NOT) his.
And what did He MEAN when He said (OUR) Father who art in heven Hollowed be (THY) name (THY) kingdom come (THY) WILL be done.
And what did He mean when he said ” How can you believe seeking glory from one another and don't seek the Glory fron the (ONLY) GOD.
AND what did He mean when he said not my (WILL) be done
but thy (WILL) be done?And what does it mean when it says God does (ALL THINGS) after the council of His (OWN WILL).
and what does it mean where it is says,” it is written in the volume of the books (I) come to do (THY WILL) O GOD.
and what does it mean , the son of man can do (NOTHING) of himself, after according to you he is GOD, but according to him he could do nothing by His self, and doesn't it say God does all things after the council of his (OWN WILL).
I could go on and on but whats the point, once God deludes a person it impossible to undelude him, that would take God himself.
But know this you are not going to change anyones mind here because Greater is He that is in them ,then whats in you. And be carefull remember it says ” it only just that God aflect those who aflect His Childern.”. ……gene
Gene Balthrop
Quote Who was Jesus talking to when he Said “For thou art the (ONLY) ture God?> or was he lying? What does (thou) MEAN and What does (ONLY) MEAN? Since the one true God exists as a Godhead this means that the three Persons can be addressed as the only true God both individually and collectively. Putting it another way:
·The Godhead is the only true God.
·Each specific member of the Godhead is the only true God.
·Therefore, the members of the Godhead are the only true God, whether individually or collectively.This is why Jesus can speak of one member of the Godhead as the only true God without this implying that the other members are not God. To make this point more clear, notice what the inspired book of Hebrews says:
“But about the Son he says, Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:1
2Pe 3:16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable pervert, as also they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.
.
Compare
1Sa 2:2 There is none holy as the LORD (Jehovah): for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God.
Psa 78:35 And they remembered that God was their rock, and the high God their redeemer.With
1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.Arianism is not a Christian doctrine. It comes from the Jehovah's Witnesses sect. LOOK!
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%2….m
2Pe 3:16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable pervert, as also they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.
What did you think when they showed you a picture of Jesus
And explained that this is God?
And God had to die to open the prison doors of hell; and in the end OF THIS STORY Lucifer; PREVAILS AND makes the earth BECOME A desolate WILDERNESS after cutting Gods Life of on earth;
Also God will prolong his days; when his soul is made and offering; but thats only;that he shall justify ManyYou are putting way too much on the shoulders of The Son of Man CB
cultbuster…..where did Jesus ever say the Godhead was three or far as that go where is it ever stated in the bible. Thats you twisted up trinitarian brain wash job talking it certainly isn”t found in (ANY) scriptures I have read. And what do you do with the word (THOU) which means (NO) the person talking.
And 1cor10:4 the word Christ is not talking about Jesus the person but the Christos or (the Annointing ) OR God's Spirit that was following them in the wilderness, not Jesus the person. Your fellow trinitarian translators forced the text to try to make it apear as that way just like Captializing the word (WORD) in John 1:1 to try to make it apear that thw word was a person instead of an atribute of God Himself.
Even your own “great trinitarian scholars” themselfs admit they doin't know how the trinity works and say it all a Mystery as i have quoted on here before. The reason its a mystery is because it is a LIE, one that in your blind state you can't see.
You need to heed 2Peter 3:16 yourself, you are the one twisting and perverting scriptures not us.
Gene. This is where your doctrine with all its twist and perversion comes from. Behold your mother church!
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%2….m
2Pe 3:16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable pervert, as also they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.
.
TITUS 2:13 awaiting our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ
Amen and Amen!
CB I too am awaiting my Savior Jesus Christ. King of King and Lord of Lords.
Peace and Love Mrs.
I did not like that tape tho its like seeing something about the Catholic Church. And all other Churches that came out of Her and believe in the trinity. Like the tape that Ken had. It all uses scare tactics and that is not right. I came out of the Catholic Church because I learned from the Bible that what I believed for so long was wrong. That is were we should stick our noses in. Just how I see it.
No offence Brother.:D
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