The word and the flesh

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 26 2007,15:58)

Hi not3,
Why should the tent in which Christ lived alter him?
He is the same yesterday, today and forever-and he no longer is flesh.

You say Jesus is no longer flesh….

But after the resurrection he was flesh and bones. He even had a digestive system – he ate with the boys!

When he was taken up to heaven and placed at the Father's right hand…….did he give up his flesh? I've wondered about this. Won't we *eat* in Paradise at the great dinner? Won't Jesus partake of wine again? It says he will!

June 26, 2007 at 5:50 am#56592

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 26 2007,16:18)

Hi not3,
Why?
Did God share the glory of his begettal with man?

I'm not sure what you mean, Nick?

June 26, 2007 at 5:56 am#56594

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 26 2007,16:30)

not3in1 .> what i believe, is Jesus never preexisted as a life form before him beining born as a flesh and blood human. i know there are scriptures that can be taken that way but to me he was in the plan of God before the foundations of the world. Peter seams to put it that way when he said that christ was (ordained) from the foundation of the world (BUT) was manifested in our time. God ordained cyrus, Jeremiah, David, and even Jesus told God the deciples were his in the beginning.

I believe Jesus was 100% like we are with no advantage other than God was with Him, it was a man that died on that cross or tree not a God.

thats just my take onthe subject. peace to all seekers of truth you will find it. Gene.

I agree with most of what you are sharing.

However, I do believe that Jesus was/is a divine man. He is the “real” Son of God, and as such, he inherited *part* of God's essence. Just like earthly Father's pass on their DNA to their children.

Jesus was made like his brothers in that he had flesh and blood. We have flesh and blood and so Jesus also had these things. However, he was conceived of the holy Spirit of God and that of a virgin! Something was different about him, wouldn't you agree?

I believe that Jesus is the firstfruits. He is a divine man. We can also be born again of imperishable seed and partake of the divine nature. We will follow him in death and resurrection. We will be adopted into the family that he already enjoys.

June 26, 2007 at 2:50 pm#56635

Participant

not3in1..> Jesus was different but only in this he was born with holy spirit presence and was keep from his iniquity just as it say's he has keep me from my iniquity, God can bless and keep us just like it say's but when someone called him (good) his answer was why do you call (me) good their is (ONLY) one who is good, and that is GOD.

the idea of devine is about nature and there is only one that is truly devine and that is God, all who are partakers of holy spirit have this devine nature in them and this is call the seed of God which was in Jesus and all who have recieved that devine seed or (nature) are divine in that sense, the difference is Jesus had it at birth and we recieved it later in our lives.

it was this devine nature or seed that enabled Jesus to do what he did or he could have never seceeded in his mission, just as he said the Father who was in him (HE) doth the works. so it was
God the Father who brought all this about and he was in Jesus.

Jesus indeed was uniquely born in this sense, God was with him at birth.
but God being with the person does not make that person God, as those decieved trianitarians say.

Jesus was adopted as a son of God just like we are, because it is imposible For God to recreate Himself because he it is that composes all life He another words can and is in all and through all things,and He was certanly in our Lord Jesus by the Chrestos or holy spirit which is the Anointing.

this whole idea of making Jesus a devine person take focuse off the Father who is truly the ONLY devine person.

i do agree with most of what you are saying, hang on to what you have because the time is short and you will truly recieve you crown..peace to you with love.

you brother inservice with our brother the King…Gene

June 26, 2007 at 3:08 pm#56636

Participant

not3in1 > Jesus is no different then us just as it say's until we come to the (FULL) measure of Christ. and again let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus our Lord and if it does it (this mind) will quicken (bring to life) our mortal bodies also, another word's just like it did his.

it's important to see Jesus exactly like ourselves with no other advantage, why, so we can understand what Our Father did for Jesus He can do for us also. make no distinction between Jesus and yourself.

it will incourage you and strenthen you, grace and peace to you. Gene

June 26, 2007 at 5:39 pm#56641

Participant

Quote (Not3in1 @ June 26 2007,17:50)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 26 2007,16:18)

Hi not3,
Why?
Did God share the glory of his begettal with man?

I'm not sure what you mean, Nick?

Hi not3,
If the term Son of God refers to the physical conception of Jesus then it is not a pure term. In that situation he can be said to be Son of God and Mary rather than Son of God alone, which I believe is the meaning of monogenes.

June 26, 2007 at 6:21 pm#56642

Participant

Quote (Not3in1 @ June 26 2007,17:49)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 26 2007,15:58)

Hi not3,
Why should the tent in which Christ lived alter him?
He is the same yesterday, today and forever-and he no longer is flesh.

You say Jesus is no longer flesh….

But after the resurrection he was flesh and bones. He even had a digestive system – he ate with the boys!

Hi Not3,
Yes.
Indeed he was raised perishable flesh and bones as he demonstrated to Thomas and the disciples, but scripture says flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom.[1Cor15]. It must be lost and if men are not to be found naked it must covered by the heavenly body.
Fast forward to his return and we too are to be transformed to have a new imperishable body like to the man returning from heaven.[1Cor15]
So as in Dan 7 where he is seen in heaven with his new body then as he was taken up so he was changed. Not surprisingly scripture says we are to be transformed instantly to be like to him as we are taken up to be with him in the clouds.
Angels are said to have food-manna. There is no suggestion that during the 1000 year reign on earth the sons of God will not eat or drink.

June 26, 2007 at 6:28 pm#56643

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 26 2007,16:49)

Nick…> i certanly can grasp that what it means to eat the flesh and drink the blood of Jesus. it means the same thing we do when we eat or drink anything, we take it to ourselves. so let me ask you a question .

what are we eating and drinking is it Jesus Christ”s sacurfice or is it the Lamb that GOD sacrificed for our sin's. Jesus is God the Father's sacrifice for our sin's it was God's justice that was being demonstrated. His requirement for our sin's that was being paid for.

your focusing on Jesus instead of the Father God who Jesus focesed on.
Jesus was God's plan not his own plan. Just as it (BECAUSE) he poured out his soul unto death God his God and our God put him above every name in heaven and earth. not because he preexisted.

Hi Gene,
To eat the flesh of the Son of Man is to devour his teachings with the knowledge that God Himself spoke these words through him and every one of them is essential to our life in the Spirit.
The origins of Jesus are essentially a side issue. They are important in recognising the glorious nature of this being and the huge sacrifice made by him for our sakes but his origins have no impact on our future hopes.

June 26, 2007 at 8:00 pm#56656

Participant

Nick > you are right about eating his word.s but we must also drink or take to ourselves the sacerfice God required for our forgiveness . you might take to yourself (eat) his word's but not take to yourself (drink) his blood. his life poured out for our sins. or why do we partake of the passover if not for sin thats what the passover is about and because God passed over our sins, he adopts us as His Child and because we are his Child He gives us His nature (holy spirit ) which begins to work in us Just like it workes in Jesus.

always remember the word's Jesus spoke were not His they were the Fathers and we must take them to ourselves (eat) we must not deal the Father out of the deck like trenitarians do, praiseing the son and neglecting the Father, we need to worship and praise who Jesus worshiped and praised.

bless you and all truth seekers, you will find. … gene

June 26, 2007 at 8:18 pm#56659

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 27 2007,05:39)

If the term Son of God refers to the physical conception of Jesus then it is not a pure term.

I agree. However, Jesus is not *just* a son of God (like many others are); Jesus is the only begotten Son of God.

No other “son” of God is begotten! Right?

June 26, 2007 at 8:20 pm#56660

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 27 2007,06:21)

Quote (Not3in1 @ June 26 2007,17:49)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 26 2007,15:58)

Hi not3,
Why should the tent in which Christ lived alter him?
He is the same yesterday, today and forever-and he no longer is flesh.

You say Jesus is no longer flesh….

But after the resurrection he was flesh and bones. He even had a digestive system – he ate with the boys!

Hmmmmmmmmmm

I haven't given this much thought (obviously). Hm. This is so interesting to me because I have been naive in thinking that Jesus still had a *body* in heaven. OK, readjustment time Mandy!

I'm glad we get to eat in heaven…..I love nachos! I wonder if there will be nachos in Paradise?
:laugh:

June 26, 2007 at 8:23 pm#56661

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 27 2007,02:50)

WE are awaiting our adoption – Jesus is not.

Can you show me where you get this idea that Jesus is adopted in scripture?

Also, God is the Father of Jesus. It's not just a title, right? After all, his holy Spirit overshadowed Mary and she conceived. What does this mean to you? Thanks.

June 26, 2007 at 8:23 pm#56662

Participant

Hi Gene,
You do not put new wine in old winecasks.
Men prefer old wine, the old testament of works.
New wine is the blood of Christ and the life is in the blood.

Life is faith.
Life is the Spirit of life.
We must be reborn from above.
We must also be led by the Spirit of God.
If we do not have the Spirit of Christ we are not of him.

June 26, 2007 at 8:25 pm#56663

Participant

Quote (Not3in1 @ June 27 2007,08:20)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 27 2007,06:21)

Quote (Not3in1 @ June 26 2007,17:49)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 26 2007,15:58)

Hi not3,
Why should the tent in which Christ lived alter him?
He is the same yesterday, today and forever-and he no longer is flesh.

You say Jesus is no longer flesh….

But after the resurrection he was flesh and bones. He even had a digestive system – he ate with the boys!

Hmmmmmmmmmm

I haven't given this much thought (obviously). Hm. This is so interesting to me because I have been naive in thinking that Jesus still had a *body* in heaven. OK, readjustment time Mandy!

I'm glad we get to eat in heaven…..I love nachos! I wonder if there will be nachos in Paradise?
:laugh:

Hi not3,
The man from heaven still has a body, an imperishable heavenly one. We also will we be clothed.

June 26, 2007 at 8:46 pm#56666

942767

Participant

Hi All:

Jesus by virture of the following scripture had flesh after his resurrection but no blood as that had been shed for us, but whether or not his body has changed since his ascension to the right hand of the Father, I don't know. I believe we will still be able to recongize his by his nail scarred hands and the the scar where the sword pierced his side just as Thomas did.

Luke 24:37
But they were terrified and affrighted *, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
24:38
And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled ? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
24:39
Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
24:40
And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.

20:25
The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe .
John 20:26
And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
20:27
Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

God Bless

June 26, 2007 at 9:11 pm#56668

Participant

Hi 94,
Yes the disciples saw his old perishable fleshly body that had been raised.
But Flesh and Bones, as Christ had when raised, cannot enter the kingdom of heaven.
Will we be different to him in our new heavenly bodies if he does not have one when he returns?
Scripture says we shall be like to the man from heaven.
Our bodies will be in his image.
Imperishable.

June 26, 2007 at 9:47 pm#56673

TimothyVI

Participant

Quote (Not3in1 @ June 27 2007,08:20)

I'm glad we get to eat in heaven…..I love nachos! I wonder if there will be nachos in Paradise?
:laugh:

Hi not3in1,

Nope, just angelfood cake.

Tim

June 26, 2007 at 10:10 pm#56680

942767

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 27 2007,09:11)

Hi Nick:

Is this the following scripture to which you refer?

1Co 15:50
Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot * inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

If so it says flesh and blood, Jesus had flesh but no blood, but then there is the following scripture:

1 John 3
3:1
Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
3:2
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

God Bless

June 26, 2007 at 10:21 pm#56681

Participant

Hi 94,
Exactly.
1Cor 15
” 36Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

37And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

38But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

39All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

40There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

41There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

42So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

43It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

45And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

46Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

47The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

48As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

49And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

55O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? “

June 27, 2007 at 12:49 am#56713