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the word became flesh and dewelt among us. my question is how can a word become flesh, a word can come to be in flesh but could never become flesh, so my contention is that there must have been an interpetation error here and I believe should say came to be (in) flesh not came to (be) flesh because Jesus spoke God's words to but at the same time said the words he was speaking warn't his words but the words of the one who sent him. I think the trinity confusion was partly caused by this misunderstanding. would like to know your thoughts on this.
thanksHi GB,
KJV
14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
YLT
14And the Word became flesh, and did tabernacle among us, and we beheld his glory, glory as of an only begotten of a father, full of grace and truth
NIV
14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only,[a] who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
[a] or ONLY BEGOTTEN
NASB
14And (A)the Word (B)became flesh, and Âdwelt among us, and (D)we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of (E)grace and (F)truth.
ESV
'14And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.Christ was the Word with God. He came in the flesh.
HI NICK Hassan my question is how could a word litterly become flesh. Jesus said God was a spirit and while a person can have spirit within his flesh, his flesh can never be spirit. a word is a intellegent uterance a sound made by wind moving across our vocial cord deriving it origin from our intellect and is not flesh at all, I know what the text say's but i believe there was somthing lost in translations what do you think.
thanks for you input.Hi GB,
What did God mean when he spoke of Christ through the prophets as the WORD?
Perhaps we should not too soon ascribe human traits to this?Is 46
” 9Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,10Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
11Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.
12Hearken unto me, ye stouthearted, that are far from righteousness:
13I bring near my righteousness; it shall not be far off, and my salvation shall not tarry: and I will place salvation in Zion for Israel my glory.”
Is 48
“16Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me. “Is 49
” 1Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The LORD hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name.2And he hath made my mouth like a sharp sword; in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me, and made me a polished shaft; in his quiver hath he hid me;”
God is a spirit being of soul and spirit.
Is 42
” 1Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. “He is ever in heaven but He mainfests through His spirit throughout creation.
Ps 139
“7Where shall I go from your Spirit?
Or where shall I flee from your presence?
8If I ascend to heaven, you are there!
If I make my bed in Sheol, you are there! “Hi GB,
Man is an intergrated composite being of body, soul and spirit.
But God speaks of man as flesh.
Gen 3
“19In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return. “So too how Christ described himself in Lk 24
“39Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. “But he too was soul\spirit, like unto God, the monogenes son, who was with God, came in the flesh, partook of flesh and dwelled in Flesh.
Hi Nick Hassan >.. i want to ask you a question you seem to be very scriptual in you responces and bibicaly knowledgeble my question is if we take the meaning of (word) by it self what would be our answer to its meaning, in my opinion it would mean intellegenct utterance because that is what a word is, so then if we say God was the word, we would be saying He was intellengent uterance and intellengent uterance became the light of all men entering the world in other words mans entellegence come from God Himself this is the spirit in man given to us by God the seperation of God from the word dosen't work but we know Jesus was not God Himself. like to know your thoughs on this.??? thanks for the input
Hi GB,
The definition of a word is very complex but we should stick to the obvious.You say
“in my opinion it would mean intellegenct utterance because that is what a word is”So an utterance has been spoken. It does not exist just as a thought or a plan now though it would have started as such. It exists. Like an arrow it has been sent from the bow. Like a letter it has been written.
Of course a word cannot speak itself. It cannot bring itself into existence. It has to be spoken into existence by an already existing intelligent being. It is utterly reliant on being spoken by another to exist.
So the Word cannot also be the being Who spoke it into existence. Whatever God chooses to call it or however God chooses to define it that is what it is. So God is not the Word but the Word can be God if God chooses.
The Spirit is not the Word. The Spirit is an aspect of God Himself. The spirit of man derives from the breath of God, not the Spirit of God, blown into the dust of earth. That spirit too belongs to God and returns to God at death. By that lent spirit God knows the heart of every man.
God is the Father of lights. He designated His monogenes Son to be for us the source of that light in the world. That light was seen on earth but men prefer darkness and ignorance. We must come to Christ to receive the light that shows us all truth. Until we are reborn from above we cannot see the kingdom and remain in the kingdom of darkness.
Nick Hassan thank you for your reply but i think you might mistaken me or i maight not have been clear enough. ill tell you what i saying. first of all i believe Jesus was not the word spoken of in 1John brcause i think John was describing who and what God was in the very benning af all things period. let me give you my take on what John was saying, inthe beginning God existed and intelegent uterance was with God and intellengent utterance was God. this ithe way God expressed Himself through all creation He spoke things into existence remember in geneis 1 and God said or spoke words that brought forth his creation and even man himself,and this intellegence was emparted to man because only man speaks words and this God given intellengence was the light of man but man perfered unintellegence be cause his deads were evil and wihile Jesus spoke God's words he never claimed to be (the) word infact he denied it by saying the words i have spoken are not mine but the words of him who sent me. i believe triantians have forced the meanning of the text to apear that way and i believe where it say's and the word became flesh means it came to exist in flesh or Jesus Christ not that Jesus was the but through God's spirit came to be in him and he spoke God's words to us. The difference in this take is to concider Jesus as a created being, remember Peter said that Jesus was ordained be for the Foundations of the Earth, but was manifested in our that time, i believe he was saying God had the forknowledge of Jesus before He ever stated the creation of the earth he know what he was going to do then and brought Jesus forth at the right time and i think that when Jesus said he was before Abraham he meant He existed in the mind and plan of God, God the Father know what he was going to do at the very start of the creation. thanks for your replies.
Hi GB,
So to you word means intelligent utterance?
Utterances have been expressed and are not thoughts or plans.
God indeed spoke the WORD into being and that Word was with God.Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 16 2007,20:00) God indeed spoke the WORD into being and that Word was with God.
No. That is incorrect. No where in scripture is it recorded that “God spoke the Word into being”.Not explicit. Not implicit. Not biblical.
Hi Is 1.18,
Isaiah 45:23
I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
Isaiah 55:11
So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.Can you prove these do not refer to the Word of God?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 16 2007,21:50) Hi Is 1.18,
Isaiah 45:23
I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
Isaiah 55:11
So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.Can you prove these do not refer to the Word of God?
Do these texts record that the Logos (the One that was “with God”) was spoken “into being“? No. You should choose your words more carefully.Nick Hassan > no Nick what i am saying is all words are (expressed) intellegence or they simply arn't words any sound that dosen't make sense is not a word because words have to originate from intellegence. therefore all intellegence originated from God the Father for He was in the beginning and He was God even the intellegence of man,or angles,or demons and Jesus also . when men are connected to the Father via holy spirit their minds recieve Godly intellengence which empowers them to become childern of God Just as Jesus is. John was simply saying who and what God is by basicly saying God was the source of all (expressed) intellegence and this expressed intelengence was the light that elluminates every man comming into the world. the reason this is not better understood is because leaving that part of John statement out of the dialoge and jumping all the way down to where it say's and the word became flesh and dwelt among us God's words were certinly in Jesus but how, because He was the word, no but because God indwelt Him through holy spirit that was in him remember he had the spirit without measure but Jesus said the words he spoke were not his words so he could not himself been the word he was repersenting God the Father to us but he never robbed God by acrediting God's word to himself. Remember when Jesus said destroy this temple and in three day's i shall rase it up, that wasen't Jesus speaking that was the father speaking through him because God the Father conceders us temples He can indewll and does so by His Spirit. remember where it say's in Hebrews that God spoke to us in times past through the prophets but has in these latter days spoken to us through a son, so who spoke? was it God or the prophet or the son it say's God spoke. and if God were to speak through you would that make you God, no it would not nor did it make Jesus God when God spoke through him. Jesus spoke the Fathers words to us not his therefore i contend that the words Jesus spoke were not his as he said and therefore he could not be the word but relayed God's words to us.
i hope this gave a little more clearity thank you for commenting.Quote (Is 1:18 @ June 16 2007,21:40) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 16 2007,20:00) God indeed spoke the WORD into being and that Word was with God.
No. That is incorrect. No where in scripture is it recorded that “God spoke the Word into being”.Not explicit. Not implicit. Not biblical.
Hi Isaiah:I agree with your statement. However, God did speak prophetically and symbolically from Genesis and throughout the Old Testament regarding the coming of his Son, and so the prophetic Word of God became flesh or a reality.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 17 2007,02:43) Nick Hassan > no Nick what i am saying is all words are (expressed) intellegence or they simply arn't words any sound that dosen't make sense is not a word because words have to originate from intellegence. therefore all intellegence originated from God the Father for He was in the beginning and He was God even the intellegence of man,or angles,or demons and Jesus also . when men are connected to the Father via holy spirit their minds recieve Godly intellengence which empowers them to become childern of God Just as Jesus is. John was simply saying who and what God is by basicly saying God was the source of all (expressed) intellegence and this expressed intelengence was the light that elluminates every man comming into the world. the reason this is not better understood is because leaving that part of John statement out of the dialoge and jumping all the way down to where it say's and the word became flesh and dwelt among us God's words were certinly in Jesus but how, because He was the word, no but because God indwelt Him through holy spirit that was in him remember he had the spirit without measure but Jesus said the words he spoke were not his words so he could not himself been the word he was repersenting God the Father to us but he never robbed God by acrediting God's word to himself. Remember when Jesus said destroy this temple and in three day's i shall rase it up, that wasen't Jesus speaking that was the father speaking through him because God the Father conceders us temples He can indewll and does so by His Spirit. remember where it say's in Hebrews that God spoke to us in times past through the prophets but has in these latter days spoken to us through a son, so who spoke? was it God or the prophet or the son it say's God spoke. and if God were to speak through you would that make you God, no it would not nor did it make Jesus God when God spoke through him. Jesus spoke the Fathers words to us not his therefore i contend that the words Jesus spoke were not his as he said and therefore he could not be the word but relayed God's words to us. i hope this gave a little more clearity thank you for commenting.
Hi GB,
I agree that the Word was from God.
Father God is ultimately the Source of all.
Christ proceeded forth, and came from God.
Jn 8
” 42Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. “The Spirit of God, however, has not proceeded but ever proceeds from God.
Jn 15
“26But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: “The Word whom John saw and who dwelled among us and who is truth spoke the words of truth from God
nick> if you hold to the word as being a person and not simple an expression of an atribute then you must also conclude that the Word as a person is God because it say's the word was God a trinitarian concept. the problem comes with captialization of words because doing that can through the meanings of sentences of for instance there are many places where the word christ is captialized where it is speeking about Jesus the person and not spicificly about the simple meaning of the word itself which is referencing the anoiting or spirit of . this was done by translators who were under tranintarying idologies, and was easly done because all orininal Greek writings are in capital letters and when being translated can very easly be interputed as a person when the text simply was meaning what the basic word used meant, this has caused a lot of confusion in our bibles. i believe the word, (word) was not suposed to be translated english with captial letters it through the meanning off. hope this helped to show may position. i enjoy everyones responces God bless you all.:)
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 16 2007,21:50) Hi Is 1.18,
Isaiah 45:23
I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
Isaiah 55:11
So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.Can you prove these do not refer to the Word of God?
NHYou say…
Quote Can you prove these do not refer to the Word of God? Can you prove that those scriptures do refer to Jesus.
Your inference again?
You say Jesus was “Spoken into Being”!
You contradict John 1:3
All things were made *by him*; and *without him* was not any thing made that was made.
Since we know that he did not create himself then Jesus is not included in the “All things” and “Anything catagory”.
Which means he is the creator.
Creator and created. There is nothing else!
Isa 45:18
For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.
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