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Hi MB,
None of the saved inherit heaven.
All the saved are the elect, chosen and enabled by the grace of God.
Heavenly bodies enable access to heaven, as we see with Jesus Christ, but the future home of the elect is on earth.The pay is the same for all
Mt 20
20 For the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which went out early in the morning to hire labourers into his vineyard.2 And when he had agreed with the labourers for a penny a day, he sent them into his vineyard.
3 And he went out about the third hour, and saw others standing idle in the marketplace,
4 And said unto them; Go ye also into the vineyard, and whatsoever is right I will give you. And they went their way.
5 Again he went out about the sixth and ninth hour, and did likewise.
6 And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle, and saith unto them, Why stand ye here all the day idle?
7 They say unto him, Because no man hath hired us. He saith unto them, Go ye also into the vineyard; and whatsoever is right, that shall ye receive.
8 So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them their hire, beginning from the last unto the first.
9 And when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny.
10 But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny.
11 And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house,
12 Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day.
13 But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny?
14 Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee.
15 Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?
16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 12 2014,15:08) Heavenly bodies enable access to heaven, as we see with Jesus Christ, but the future home of the elect is on earth.
Okay Nick,But how often has Jesus come back to earth with his new heavenly body? That is my point. Given the choice of hanging out with God in the heavenly realms, or living on the natural planet of earth – which choice would you make as a heavenly being with a heavenly body?
My point is: What USE is the natural earth to spirit beings who can go anywhere? It would almost seem like a punishment for God to “banish” heavenly spirit beings to an earthly existence – when there is so much more out there for them.
Which is probably why Jesus hasn't returned in almost 2000 years. What would a spirit being need with earth? To smell flowers? I'm sure there are much better smells up there. To see waterfalls? I'm sure the sights are a zillion times better up there.
Are you seeing my point? Why would a spirit being in a heavenly body need earth for anything at all?
Hi MB,
Whta God has planned for us seems pretty good.
But heaven is His throne and not our home.Did Jesus Christ meet Paul enroute to Damascus or was that his Spirit?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 13 2014,07:02) Hi MB,
God will also be dwelling on the new earth.Rev22
But also be in Heaven
NGod will through his son dwell on earth for ever
Quote Isn't God his Father, according to scripture? And isn't a Father a parent?
Hi MikeGod created Adam out of the dust of the ground, in his image.
“Created”Adam was born by the will of God, but not born “of God”.
God was Adam's Father yes, just like he was a father to the angels he created, but none of them “came out of God”.
Just made with God's wisdom.Quote Isn't God his Father, according to scripture? And isn't a Father a parent?
Yes. He says don't touch this, or don't touch that. He instructs just like a Father.
He invented “fatherhood”
before his creation, there's no “fathers” in existence.Quote But okay, let's talk Eve then. Eve was made from a combination of human flesh and the power of God. Jehovah was her only father, but she was also made from the body of a flesh being………. just like Jesus.
No, not the same.
Eve was not formed in her mothers womb was she?
Eve was not the Word of God before she was made flesh, was she?
Eve did not go through a “changing process”
She was made out of Adam's rib.
and God spoke her into existence.
She was made out of Adam.Quote Was Eve half God/half mankind?
No. Pure flesh.
Was never in heaven,
never came out of God,
but came out of Adam.Hi j42
Lk3
38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.mikeboll64,April wrote:[/quote]
Quote And how about the second resurrection? Will there be human husbands, wives, and newborn children on the new earth?
Hi Mike Revelation 20:11Revelation 20:11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.Mike
You are asking a good question.Here is my answer.
The first resurrection consists of all those “in Christ”. only.
Then we have the 1000 years, where the Jews are brought into the kingdom, in the flesh.
They are multiplying and having children for a thousand years.
There are people living outside the kingdom area also, the gentiles.
They are also multiplying for a thousand years.
Then after Gog and Magog, we have the 2nd Resurrection, which is the Great Judgement.
This is a different judgement.
This judgement consists of;
1. those who turned to Christ during the thousand years,
2. those who did not make it into the first resurrection
3. all the dead who ever lived and did not know God or Christ.All those rejected get thrown into the lake of fire. Immediately done away with. Their deeds are bad, they cannot be salvaged.
All those who get spared have their names already written in “the book of life”
Whether they learn't Christ during the thousand years, or whether they were hindu's or moslems, or whatever, they are spared, because God looked into their hearts, and their hearts were good. They can be salvaged. They have what it takes, and they have something that God loves in them.
They must of produced good deeds, and loved their neighbours and their enemies.
They must of not been selfish people, or full of hate and envy, but humble. (proud people can't love unconditionally)
and the bible says that LOVE covers a multitude of sins.
The only thing I can see is that they had this naturally in them.
And another thing is that maybe they missed out on all the good things during their lives. They may of been oppressed, or sick, or poor, or killed, or died at birth, or young, or suffered from abnormalties in their bodies and not blamed God etc.They will be raised to spirit.
There will be no more flesh ever again.
They will be made perfect, and given the full truth at their resurrection.
There will be no more babies being born.
The earth has been populated well enough,
and judged.These are my own words, but we must use reasoning.
To produce good works, one must have love, which God admires in a person, and this in turn produces good works, but babies and young children who get taken young have not lived long enough to fill themselves with evil, so die innocent.Hi j42,
Rom2
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
Conscience, the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, is still a useful guide to the natural man.
Hi MB,
In the kingdom those who serve God have to follow God's commands and are not free to do as they please.
They will only want to do that anyway.The Spirit of God will lead and enable God's servants to do God's will.
Hi journey,
Thanks for your well-thought-out and easy-to-read explanation.
Your final conclusion is the same as Nick's – which is “No More Flesh”.
I don't quite believe that yet, and will be on the lookout as I go through my current reading of the scriptures.
I also don't know why you are separating Jews from Gentiles, when Paul said there is no more Jew or Gentile.
But thanks for your input and insight.
Quote (journey42 @ April 12 2014,22:50) Adam was born by the will of God, but not born “of God”.
God was Adam's Father yes, just like he was a father to the angels he created, but none of them “came out of God”.
Then of what were they created, journey?This is the point I'm making to Daniel in another thread. If at first there was ONLY God, then it is clear that the Word of God (Jesus) was made of “God-stuff” – since there wasn't yet anything else for him to be made of.
But then what about that first angel? What was he made out of – since there was still nothing there except for God Himself, and another being who was previously made from “God-stuff”?
See? If the ONLY things in existence at that time were things made of “God-stuff”, then that first angel was also made of “God-stuff” – just like the Word was.
Then what about the cosmos? Of what were its elements made? If there only existed things made of “God-stuff”, then oxygen and argon and carbon and plutonium were also originally made of “God-stuff”. The only other option is that these elements have also existed from eternity, and God just grabbed some of them up and made other things out of them.
In the end, EVERYTHING originally came from “God-stuff”, journey.
Also, if at first there was only God, but then later there was another living being next to God, that second living being either always existed along with God – or God CREATED/MADE/FORMED that second living being.
It doesn't matter much if you say this second being was “of God”, or was a literal word from God's mouth, or whatever.
Because the fact will remain that at first there was only ONE living being, but then God MADE another one. And making a living being is “CREATING” – no matter how you personally choose to word it.
This understanding aligns PERFECTLY with the fact that Jesus was the “firstborn of every creature”, and the “beginning of the creation by God”.
Nick, journey, and Wakeup,
My mom has brought up a couple of points for you guys:
1. What was God's original intention for the earth? Wasn't it to fill the earth with FLESH beings, humans included?
2. The earth surely wasn't created for spirit beings, since those angels who left their lofty abode to come to earth were dealt with harshly by God.
3. So what has now changed? Has God given up on His original purpose of having an earth filled with wonderful flesh and blood creatures?
4. If that was the case, why not deal with the current situation like He dealt with Enoch and Elijah? If it was just a matter of saving “good souls”, why not just judge and bring the “good souls” to the heavenly realms – and let all the others be destroyed? Why is earth needed at all for spirit beings like angels? Do the faithful angels of God dwell on earth now?
There are many other questions I have, but these should give you guys something to ponder.
Like I said, I will pay special attention to this issue as I'm reading the Bible this time through.
Mike,
Quote 1. What was God's original intention for the earth? Wasn't it to fill the earth with FLESH beings, humans included? You should know my answer to this one already. I am convinced this is so. God declared human beings were a very good creation so I do not see him changing his mind though I believe he would have liked things to go in a less sorrowful direction than than man has chosen for them to go. The new earth will be a physical place and man will be physical as well. It will not know death and so the flesh of the new earth will be undying in nature. It will not be like the flesh that we, or the beasts, bear now.
Hi MB,
The purposes of God are beyond us.Except we know he wants order and complete unity with Him.
He tests all things in His crucible of fire so that only what is pure survives.
We also know that earth was stolen and under Satan before flesh was created here.
Even some angels had failed to remain true and flesh is to be an example to them and humble them.
Heaven is first cleansed before the kingdom is fully established on earth so that all will be one and in submission to Him.Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
God wants more than just His will done eventually- a spring clean
If the evil forces had known the plan of God they would not have crucified the lord of Glory..
Our opportunity has risen out of God wanting a weak instrument to do His wondrous work of complete restorationheb 1-2. jn 14-17 mt 5
Hi,
1.1 Corinthians 2:8
Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.Not the human princes but those seen in Daniel
Nick,
I tend to believe it is the human princess as if they had known they would have honored Jesus as the Christ and not crucified him.
Quote (kerwin @ April 14 2014,06:10) Nick, I tend to believe it is the human princess as if they had known they would have honored Jesus as the Christ and not crucified him.
Kwhat about make it THE LEADERS
Hi KW,
Which human princes?
Was there a human conspiracy?The work of men always seem to feature in your posts
Quote (kerwin @ April 13 2014,12:40) Mike, Quote 1. What was God's original intention for the earth? Wasn't it to fill the earth with FLESH beings, humans included? You should know my answer to this one already. I am convinced this is so. God declared human beings were a very good creation so I do not see him changing his mind though I believe he would have liked things to go in a less sorrowful direction than than man has chosen for them to go. The new earth will be a physical place and man will be physical as well. It will not know death and so the flesh of the new earth will be undying in nature. It will not be like the flesh that we, or the beasts, bear now.
Agreed, Kerwin.
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