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Hi Shania,
You say
“You have a choice every moment of every day- who will you serve? Sin, or your Father? {nobody get confused here, I am not saying that you lose your salvation with every sin- but we work out our salvation with fear and trembling. Remember that the Isrealites were delivered from Egypt in a day but it took a long time for them to come out of their captivity} In order to understand His will, you have to put to death your flesh (sin) nature and let Him renew you. Take on His nature- (remember that His first desire for you was to be made in His image and likeness)”No man is naturally in the service of God.
All men are sinners and God does not abide sin.
You must be born again into His family.Hey nick!
Not sure I understand what you are getting at- once again, I agree with your statement but don't know if we are on the same page:
“No man is naturally in the service of God.—-absolutely not. It is impossible for a man in the natural [flesh] to please Elohim.
All men are sinners and God does not abide sin.——totally agree. That is why we have to die to that and come alive to Him.
You must be born again into His family. ” —You cannot do the above without this.I went back to Romans 7-8 to get the full context of what I was quoting. You wanna know what I found? Paul was talking about the law vs. the Spirit, and if you are walking in the law, you only have your own mind to reason with, hence these verses: (what I quoted)
Rom 7:21-25
21 So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God's law; 23 but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25 Thanks be to God — through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.
NIVHe's talking about how the law pointed out what sin was because his natural mind was sinful and did not know that sin was sin- it was just natural for him to sin. With the commandments, he learned that specific sins (ex:coveting) were wrong, which exposed all the (covetous) desires in him. So in his natural mind, he wanted to please God, but could not because he was a slave to sin… Practical application: you will not do the right thing just for the sake of doing the right thing. You are too evil for that. No, the only way that you can walk in righteousness is out of love. Our hearts are decietful and wicked and full of selfishness. The only way out is to let Him into your heart. You have to be born again. (from above)
I believe that I used this passage out of context- I apologize. Paul is talking about the predicament of living according to the law. However, the law can never save one's soul.
This is what he says later on:
No man is naturally in the service of God.
All men are sinners and God does not abide sin.
You must be born again into His family.Rom 8:1-17
8:1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, 4 in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.5 Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; 7 the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. 8 Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God.
[We live by the Spirit by submitting to Him- because we love Him. We have put our sinful nature to death.]
9 You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. [The spirit of messiah was always submitted to the spirit of God. “If you are in him, you must walk as Jesus did.” Jesus only did what he saw his Father doing…]
10 But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness. 11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you.[Our Father will raise us from the dead: as we put sin to death in us, we become alive to Him]
12 Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation — but it is not to the sinful nature, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live, 14 because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.” 16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children. 17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs — heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.
NIVIf we are truly His, them we go through the death process- but it is so we can come alive. This is being born again- born from above.
We don't have an excuse for our sins- we cannot say, “it is my sin nature.” “I was born a sinner- I have to sin”
This, I do know:
Heb 10:26-30
26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?
NIVPhil 2:12-13
12 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed — not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence — continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, 13 for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose.
NIV1 Cor 9:24-10:1
24 Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize. 25 Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last; but we do it to get a crown that will last forever. 26 Therefore I do not run like a man running aimlessly; I do not fight like a man beating the air. 27 No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.
NIV
2 Peter 2:19-20
for a man is a slave to whatever has mastered him.
NIVHi Shania,
You say
“If we are truly His, them we go through the death process- but it is so we can come alive. This is being born again- born from above.”I believe being born from above is an event, the putting on of Christ
Gal 3
26For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
but the birth of Christ into us is a painful process and of grace and eating the bread of life.
Gal4
19My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,20I desire to be present with you now, and to change my voice; for I stand in doubt of you.
God sees us as in His Son Christ from the event.
The tribunal of Christ will assess whether Christ has indeed been formed in us and we are useful branches on the vine.
Nick-
Totally agree with you…did not use as many words and I wasn't as clear. I believe that we are His when we accept Him, however converting to His ways is a process. That is why He gives us favor [grace.]. This is why we have to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. He has given us “everything we need for life and Godliness” His love and faithfulness is so incredible… He amazes me every day. He has asked for all of me- to give Him every part, every area of my heart. He has asked me to give up anything that stands between us, and it is up to me to make those decisions and walk with Him. However, He does not ask me to give anything that I cannot- which is so encouraging!!!! He has given me favor after favor- He has done that for all of us.
Do you know something? I love the way that He is. I love the way that He is not like me. I will spend the rest of my life learning this love… I love the way that He asks me to change. I love the way that He loves me the way that I am, but will not accept the way that I am. He is constantly developing me… He is so faithful. He is absolutely perfect, and He calls me to be like Him. What more pure, perfect love is there?
Hi,
We cannot discuss the will of man without knowing about the will of God.
And God is not rigid but His will is tolerant of our weakness.Romans 12:2
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.Quote (Shania @ Mar. 20 2008,16:50) However, He does not ask me to give anything that I cannot- which is so encouraging!!!! He has given me favor after favor- He has done that for all of us.
You “cannot” give up, or “will not” give up?Jesus gave his life for us, what could we possible not be able to give up?
Mark 8:35, 36
For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me and for the gospel will save it.
What good is it for a man to gain the whole world, yet forfeit his soul?
I guess our attitude should be that there is nothing we wouldn't lay down at his feet. I work on this all the time.
MandyHi Shania,
You better trained up through the topic 'Test posting here” in the HELP DESK.
You can easily learn to reply to the posts.
Take care Sis.
AdamMay I comment on the “Will of God”?
God is the captain of the ship of the universe; all His creatures are its passengers. He is guiding the vessel across the ocean of time from the port that is called “All in God” to the haven that is termed “God in all.”The passengers have wills of their own, but only as much freedom of choice as their Captain permits, which, in the absolute sense, is no freedom at all, since at all times he remains in full command. He may allow them to wander seemingly unhindered about the ship, but even so there are parts of the vessel where they are not allowed to go, and many things which they are not allowed to do. And all the time they are being carried along inevitably wherever the ship takes them—that is, wherever the Captain directs. When the ship goes wherever they want to go, they feel free, but the moment that it starts to move toward a place where they do not want to go, they know immediately that they are not free at all. But, since they are on the ship, they are under the absolute control of the Captain.
And so it is with creation. It had no choice even as to which ship it should join, or whereabouts on the ship it would find itself, nor has it any say in the direction the ship is taking. For much of its journey it is allowed to think that it is working out its own destiny, but sooner or later it is brought inexorably to the conclusion that God is in control and “is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will.” Thus it eventually grows into a “realization of God.” Blessed indeed are those who grow into this realization sooner rather than later.
“All is of God,” says Paul in Corinthians. “The One Who is operating all,” he says in Ephesians. If God is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will, can there be another free will in the universe? Can there be two Gods?
“Thou shalt have no other gods before Me,” wrote Moses at God’s dictation. “To us,” says Paul, “there is one God, the Father, out of Whom all is.”
When we have fully grasped the import of these great truths, we shall no longer say “I,” or “I and God,” or even “God and I,” but simply and solely, and majestically, “God.”
His deity will then be fully recognized and acknowledged.
Blessings.
chosenone ……….excellent post i do agree with what you said here.
God the Father is (SOVEREIGN) over all His creation, rather they like it or not. For God does all things after the council of His (OWN) WILL.
This is what man Hates, they want to think that they are the (CAPTAIN) of their own ship. Pure foolishness. Why do they think that way?, because the CARNAL mind is enemy of God is not (SUBJECT) to the laws of GOD neither indeed can be. This whole so called (FREE WILL) thing is man thinking He is a GOD.
good post brother ……….peace to you and yours……………….gene
Quote (chosenone @ June 07 2008,06:55) May I comment on the “Will of God”?
God is the captain of the ship of the universe; all His creatures are its passengers. He is guiding the vessel across the ocean of time from the port that is called “All in God” to the haven that is termed “God in all.”For much of its journey it is allowed to think that it is working out its own destiny, but sooner or later it is brought inexorably to the conclusion that God is in control and “is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will.” Thus it eventually grows into a “realization of God.” Blessed indeed are those who grow into this realization sooner rather than later.
“All is of God,” says Paul in Corinthians. “The One Who is operating all,” he says in Ephesians. If God is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will, can there be another free will in the universe? Can there be two Gods?
“Thou shalt have no other gods before Me,” wrote Moses at God’s dictation. “To us,” says Paul, “there is one God, the Father, out of Whom all is.”
When we have fully grasped the import of these great truths, we shall no longer say “I,” or “I and God,” or even “God and I,” but simply and solely, and majestically, “God.”
His deity will then be fully recognized and acknowledged.
Blessings.
Hi Jerry,
Wonderful post on free will. I also agree with your views on free will. We are always safe in our Fathers' will as Jesus shown us the perfect way to follow our father's free will.
Thanks
AdamThanks gollamudi, much appreciated. I am not infallable, I only state what I believe the scriptures are saying, and may not always get it right. I do appreciate when others disagree, as long as they're not insulting, just exprssing their opinion. Thanks again.
Blessings.
Hi gollamudy, thanks for your request on shareing my views on other topics. I find this website very interesting, but it takes up so much time, that I feel comfortable only doing the few I feel I can manage in a reasonable time.
Blessings
Hi gollamudi.
I'm flattered that you would request what I believe, thank you. It would take a very lengthly letter for anyone to express their beliefs fully, so I won't attempt to. But I do feel that two scriptures kept in mind will benefit any serious student of scripture, they are:
“All is of God, all is by Him, thru Him, and for Him”. (Ro.11:36, 1 Cor.8:5-7 & 11-12, 2Cor.5:18) and, “God is operating all according to the council of His will”. I would also add one more, “His (God) achievement are we”. (Eph.1:11).
I have found the following website a tremendous blessing in my walk with God, one of the elders of a church I used to go to, (he has left also) pointed it out to me, it is “Concordant. org”. If you do look at it, please let me know you opinion of it, I would be pleased if you would. Thank you.Blessings, Jerry.
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