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Quote (Jesus name follower of Christ @ Aug. 15 2009,09:05) thats a long post
Well it's his questions copied, then answered by me…so you can skim through the questions.Plus the truth is the truth regardless it's length.
Hey Rokka,
Quote I do want to add that your post, stirred up a fire within me, and I have rarely felt such a passion for my beliefs but even tho the rebuttals were good, they have re-affirmed my position.
I really dig this response. I dig it because this (for me) is what this site is all about. Exchanging ideas/theories and either making oneself either more sure of their stand, OR to sit back and go through the question process. I've done both. I love both.
Quote Taken literally, yes as plain as day, when it says…The Word was with God, and the word was God, and the Word was made flesh….draws me to the conclusion that Jesus was God made Flesh.
Question: Does the “Word” mean literally……Jesus? How do you know for certain? That is, what has convinced you that there is no other likely explaination?Quote I believe this is the significance of The Father choosing a virgin. If Jesus was born of a Man and Woman, then I would believe as an anti-trinitarian…but this virgin birth was a significant statement made by God.
“Anti-Trinitarians” as you lump us all in together it seems, don't necessarily all believe that Jesus is not divine. I don't really have a classification for what I am, or what group I would be in….but I do believe that as God Almighty's Son, and Mary's son, that Jesus is a divine man.Quote Pls do not tell me we are not to give Jesus the same Glory as the Father, for anti-trinitarians say, Jesus said himself “That I am not greater than the father” Jesus also said “If you Glorify The Son, you Glorify The Father”
To clarify, I said that we are to praise Jesus for who he is….he IS the Son of the Living God. We do not give Jesus the glory that is due the Father only. For the Father will not share his glory with *another*.
Quote John 17
1Jesus spoke these things; and lifting up His eyes to heaven, He said, “Father, the hour has come; glorify Your Son, that the Son may glorify YouHow dare a lesser created Deity to the father say such a thing?
The “glory” Jesus was seeking was not his Father's glory (for Jesus also knew the scriptures that said would not share his glory with another). He was basically saying, “Hey Father, can you lift me up and exhault me like you said you would…..with the honor and glory I receive from that…..I will glorify you, Father. I will turn and give all the glory I receive to you!! Jesus is such a good Son, wouldn't you say? Never wanting it for himself, but only to return it to the Father. We should always strive to follow his example.Quote and in Verse 5. Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was. Glorify me together with yourself!!!!!!
One thing this verse doesn't say is, “Father glorify me with your glory!”. Think about that for a moment.Quote God will not share his glory with another??? I'm sorry scripture refutes that statement, in the above question it clearly states in John 17:5 Jesus shared the Glory of the father before the world was.
Scripture does not lie. God said he would NOT SHARE HIS GLORY with another. We are told that Jesus does have glory, but it is the glory of the One and Only Son of God. There are no scriptures that say Jesus *shared* God's glory. Why? Because that would go against what God has told us. So we press on to look for another understanding.Quote Jesus had his own Glory: Again wrong, scripture tells us he shared the same glory as the father.
John 1:14 (New International Version)14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only,[a] who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Jesus does have a different glory. His glory is that of the One and Only Son.
A word study on “glory” is a facinating one.Quote I don't think any Man of God of old, claimed that the Father was in them, not even moses. Nor did they claim that was how their miracles were working…instead it was as if everything was granted…with Jesus everything was within.
Fabulous insight here! Of course non of the other Great's could claim that the Father was “in” them…..they were merely servants. But Jesus was God's Son.Hebrews 3
5Moses was faithful as a servant in all God's house, testifying to what would be said in the future. 6But Christ is faithful as a son over God's house.Quote The list goes on, why would The Father be inside of any Man or another Diety. Even now as we receive christ, he grants us The Holy Spirit. To me it sounds like Jesus was more than a Man, and more than a Deity. The only understanding that makes sense, is the Trinity.
I'm so happy to be discussing this with you. I truly am, because I've been studying the Trinity on and off for about 5 years now. I have been amazed at how many different ways there are to view scripture….. In the end, Rokka, I do what you do – I pray and ask the Father to give me insight and wisdom. I desire the truth over all. I believe as we continue to study, we will be granted more and more truth. I encourage you to continue to be open to God's leading, as I also encourage myself to be open to instruction (even if I believe the person is wrong). In other words, there are a lot of theories that make sense once you study them through…..so we press on, and pray, and keep the faith….Quote The Father in the OT was the only one who could forgive sins was He not? So if he is an unchanging God, why would he stop that act and impart that gift to a lesser imperfect Deity? Aren't we only to be seen as Righteous by The Father, through the forgiveness of sins by The Son? If that is the case…God would be a changing God.
In the OT folks had to give sacrifices to “win” their forgiveness from God.
In the NT we have Jesus, our perfect sacrifice, our only sacrifice..The Father has glorified his Son because he was faithful unto death. He has exhaulted him, and given him the name above all names. He has given him certain “jobs” to do as his Son. God does not change…..but he can delegate, no?
Quote So who are these reliable sources that tell us it was added in by a scribe, that I should research?
The King James version is the ONLY bible we should seek for truth for it is the closest translation to the original hebrew text…If you can't agree to argue concepts from that book…
Oh dear….. Well, I do not share your belief that the KJV is the closest translation. After all, we have the Dead Sea Scrolls that were found to help us understand more information since the writing of the KJV. Um, do you have a “Study” Bible? Like an NIV Study Bible, for instance? They give a lot of information about this passage. You can also Google it to find out more. I enjoy a site called: www.truthortradition.com and these folks have done a tremendous amount of research that you might find irritatingly interesting? Check it out.Quote and when he asked the father to give him the same glory they shared before the world was….Amen
Where is the word “shared”?Thanks, Rokka. I've enjoyed chatting with you.
Love,
MandyHi JN,
Would it not be best to first be established in the body of Christ?
The rest is denominational flim flam. Seek first the kingdomJN……….Dump the false teachings of the TRINITY, remember GOD the Father said “YOU SHALL HAVE (N0) OTHER GOD BESIDES ME” let that always be paramount in you mind. ONE GOD, and remember Jesus' word, “FOR THOU ART THE (ONLY) TRUE GOD” let these word settle into your heart and don't let those false TRINITARIAN teachers remove them from you heart. Jesus is (NOT) a GOD no more then we are, He is one of US, a Human being raised from the dead and given eternal life by HIS GOD AND OUR GOD HIS FATHER AND OUR FATHER. IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………………………gene
eph 4:5, 1john 5:7 mark 12:29 where is trinity in these its not there so I believe in one God not 3 Gods for there is one throne in heaven
If God is a spirit, and then there is the Holy Ghost, wouldnt Jesus be both of them?
so I see only 1 person thats Jesus then there is the spirit of God which Jesus specificly said the comforter shall come in my name so the name of the Holy ghost is Jesus therfore being the spirit of God and is also God's name (new covenent, the old was jahova)
Hi JN,
Logic and tradition are of little use.
Jesus is a man empowered from the Jordan with the Spirit of God, who died and now lives in the Spirit of God.Hi JN,
Do you think Jesus meant he is his own father?
The word OF GOD became flesh but God is not only His word is He?Quote (Jesus name follower of Christ @ Aug. 24 2009,13:31) God is a spirit yes Jess was a man but He was the God-man
Jesus was first a Spirit Being, before He became a man.
Col. 1:15-17
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.verse 16 For by Him all things were created that are in Heaven or that is in Earth, visible or invisible……..
verse 17 And He is before all things and in Him all things consist.
Rev, 3: 14….” These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness the Beginning of the creation of God.
John 17:5 “And now O Father glorify Me together with Yourself with the glory I had with You before the world was.”
He emptied Himself and became like a Servant and was crucified and died for our sins.
Now we by Faith in Christ Jesus Eternal life it is a free gift from God.
Ephesians 2: 8 ” For by grace you have been saved though Faith, and not of yourselves, it is the gift of God.verse 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast,
That is the way to eternal life. How wonderful and how great is our Heavenly Father and our Savior Jesus Christ, that He came to save mankind from eternal death.
Peace And Love Irene
JC………..what does image mean to you? Image is a refelection or copy, of something it, itself is (NOT). GOD is reflected (through) us by HIS SPIRIT (IN) US. This is exactly the same with Jesus as with all who have HIS (GODS) Spirit. “let this (MIND) be (IN) You that was also in Christ Jesus our Lord”. Same Mind same Same Spirit (Intellect)> NO DIFFERENCE. IMO
peace and love……………………………gene
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