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Quote (Not3in1 @ June 20 2008,04:57) Quote (dirtyknections @ June 20 2008,03:06) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 19 2008,17:04) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 19 2008,14:42) Hi not3,
Your own death will be a temporary inconvenience too?
You will not be tortured or crucified though.
Perhaps.But there are those who have been tortured…..
There are two points of interest here as far as I can see; one, what did Jesus truly sacrifice? And two, if he was indeed aware of his past life and knew glory and exhaultation was in his future – what was the risk that you were talkint about? Thanks, Mandy
I think the question is not what did Jesus sacrifice..but what did His father sacrifice?don't think in terms of trinity..thats not what I am getting at
Think more on the lines of Abraham and Issac
I think your eyes will open a little more…mine sure did
DK,What in your opinion did Jesus truly sacrifice?
Jesus sacrificed his previous Glory…but to me the real question is what did GOD his father sacrifice…Remember…Jesus belongs to GOD…the ransom was instituted out of need by GOD…So that is the real question
Quote (gollamudi @ June 20 2008,05:15) Hi DK,
Do you mean Jesus was not tempted of sin,bad or evil like us? What do you mean by God's plans for sending Jesus His son not to be tempted of sin?
Hey GM…Of course Jesus could be tempted..he was Human…albeit a perfect human…but human…i.e. the temptation of Christ by the Devil…
Jesus tired, he hungered, he became thirsty, he became angry,sad,and happy…simply put he was human…
Do mean to say that God had not planned for sending His son for being tempted of sin, bad or evil?
Which so far were you argueing with me.Quote (gollamudi @ June 20 2008,05:19) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 20 2008,04:55) DK and Adam, Please don't hijack this thread – it's about THE VALUE OF THE SACRIFICE!
Thanks,
Mandy
Sorry Mandy,
For deviating from the Topic, LO! I am on the topic.
Thanks, brother.Let's keep the topic on THE VALUE OF THE SACRIFICE.
If you guys find that this is not what you are talking about, please move your discussion to a more appropriate thread.
So far, it looks like you guys are talking about something other than “sacrifice”?
This thread is not about evil and whether God creates it, for example.
Thanks,
MandyQuote (dirtyknections @ June 20 2008,06:12) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 20 2008,04:57) Quote (dirtyknections @ June 20 2008,03:06) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 19 2008,17:04) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 19 2008,14:42) Hi not3,
Your own death will be a temporary inconvenience too?
You will not be tortured or crucified though.
Perhaps.But there are those who have been tortured…..
There are two points of interest here as far as I can see; one, what did Jesus truly sacrifice? And two, if he was indeed aware of his past life and knew glory and exhaultation was in his future – what was the risk that you were talkint about? Thanks, Mandy
I think the question is not what did Jesus sacrifice..but what did His father sacrifice?don't think in terms of trinity..thats not what I am getting at
Think more on the lines of Abraham and Issac
I think your eyes will open a little more…mine sure did
DK,What in your opinion did Jesus truly sacrifice?
Jesus sacrificed his previous Glory…but to me the real question is what did GOD his father sacrifice…Remember…Jesus belongs to GOD…the ransom was instituted out of need by GOD…So that is the real question
Jesus sacrificed his previous glory when he died on the cross?I don't think you are hearing me? What did Jesus sacrifice when he died on the cross? What was the value of his sacrifice?
Quote (Not3in1 @ June 20 2008,04:53) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 19 2008,17:47) HI not3,
Without faith who takes such risks?
Please identify the risk, thank you.
Hi not3,
Death.
Complete loss of control of your destiny.
Being taken from a position of power and glory to being an abject subject of low human mockery and then killed.
All on the basis of a promise never given before.
Takes faith.Mandy….here is something to think about.
1Sam 15:22…> and Samuel said, Has the Lord delight in burnt offerings and sacrifice, as in obeying the voice of the Lord, To obey is better than sacrifice and to hearken than the fat of rams.
Pro 21:3 ..> to do justice and judgment is more acceptable to the Lord than sacrifice.
There is another scripture that says ” a broken and a contrite heart is to God a Sacrifice.”
peace to you and yours……….gene
Quote (Not3in1 @ June 20 2008,06:46) Quote (dirtyknections @ June 20 2008,06:12) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 20 2008,04:57) Quote (dirtyknections @ June 20 2008,03:06) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 19 2008,17:04) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 19 2008,14:42) Hi not3,
Your own death will be a temporary inconvenience too?
You will not be tortured or crucified though.
Perhaps.But there are those who have been tortured…..
There are two points of interest here as far as I can see; one, what did Jesus truly sacrifice? And two, if he was indeed aware of his past life and knew glory and exhaultation was in his future – what was the risk that you were talkint about? Thanks, Mandy
I think the question is not what did Jesus sacrifice..but what did His father sacrifice?don't think in terms of trinity..thats not what I am getting at
Think more on the lines of Abraham and Issac
I think your eyes will open a little more…mine sure did
DK,What in your opinion did Jesus truly sacrifice?
Jesus sacrificed his previous Glory…but to me the real question is what did GOD his father sacrifice…Remember…Jesus belongs to GOD…the ransom was instituted out of need by GOD…So that is the real question
Jesus sacrificed his previous glory when he died on the cross?I don't think you are hearing me? What did Jesus sacrifice when he died on the cross? What was the value of his sacrifice?
Romans 5:15-17….15But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God's grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! 16Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man's sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification. 17For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ.I think this scriptures answers the questions in this thread
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 20 2008,07:01) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 20 2008,04:53) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 19 2008,17:47) HI not3,
Without faith who takes such risks?
Please identify the risk, thank you.
Hi not3,
Death.
Complete loss of control of your destiny.
Being taken from a position of power and glory to being an abject subject of low human mockery and then killed.
All on the basis of a promise never given before.
Takes faith.
I appreciate your line of reasoning, however I'm unsure.For instance, if I was the preexistent begotten of God Son, and God told me the plan and said, “Yes, you will be sacrificed and it will hurt…..but when it's done you will come back here and be exhaulted to my right hand.” Well, that doesn't take much faith to believe. Not in my opinion, it doesn't.
Was the risk that God may not keep his promise? That would have never been a consideration in Jesus' mind.
Quote (dirtyknections @ June 20 2008,07:32) I think this scriptures answers the questions in this thread
Yes, the value of Jesus' sacrifice was the ultimate salvation of our souls, but the questions currently being asked is what was the sacrifice? What did Jesus sacrifice? You say, “His past glory.” OK, but is that truly a sacrifice when he was going to receive it right back?When you sacrifice something – you give it up!
Quote (Not3in1 @ June 20 2008,08:50) Quote (dirtyknections @ June 20 2008,07:32) I think this scriptures answers the questions in this thread
Yes, the value of Jesus' sacrifice was the ultimate salvation of our souls, but the questions currently being asked is what was the sacrifice? What did Jesus sacrifice? You say, “His past glory.” OK, but is that truly a sacrifice when he was going to receive it right back?When you sacrifice something – you give it up!
Again…the question is not what did JESUS sacrifice…it is what did GOD his FATHER sacrifice…Jesus belonged to God…GOD provided Jesus for the atonement for our sins…
So think along the lines of one who has children… Being a parent myself…I can truly say what GOD did is unfathomable to me…I can't see myself giving up my child for the people of this world…Myself yes…my children NEVER…
Simply put…GOD sacrificed the most precious thing he had…John 3:16
Hi DK,
He sent His beloved Son.
Mt21
33Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:34And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.
35And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.
36Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.
37But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.
38But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
39And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.
DK, I hear ya. Really I do, loud and clear. I understand as parent what God had to go through, believe me I'm touched by the whole Issaac thing myself.
But that is not what I'm talking about here. Jesus was a man in his own right. He wasn't just a robot that God operated! He had to give up something or it wasn't a sacrifice at all! Do you understand what I'm trying to say here?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 20 2008,09:05) Hi DK,
He sent His beloved Son.
Mt21
33Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:34And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.
35And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.
36Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.
37But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.
38But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
39And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.
Good scriptureQuote (Not3in1 @ June 20 2008,09:08) DK, I hear ya. Really I do, loud and clear. I understand as parent what God had to go through, believe me I'm touched by the whole Issaac thing myself. But that is not what I'm talking about here. Jesus was a man in his own right. He wasn't just a robot that God operated! He had to give up something or it wasn't a sacrifice at all! Do you understand what I'm trying to say here?
I understand clearly…but what I am saying is that..in my opinion…you are looking incorrectly at WHOSE sacrifice it was…GOD sacrificed his son….GOD GAVE UP EVERYTHING…
It matters not what Jesus “sacrificed”…because he was not the one “sacrificing”..or PROVIDING the “ransom”..
THIS WAS GOD's PAIN AND SACRIFICE..NOT JESUS'..
GOD had to watch his ONLY BEGOTTEN SON be tried,convicted, tortured, and killed as a common criminal…all for an underserving people…
Now if we are simply trying to figure out what Jesus gave up..then I stick to my previous statement..his previous Glory…and for the record…He was exalted to higher place when returned to heaven…not given his “previous glory” back..
Hi DK,
Indeed Jesus was the lamb without blemished sacrificed to atone for the sins of mankind.
But in another sense he gave up and sacrificed his own life on the basis of belief in a promiseJohn 10:17
Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 20 2008,09:21) Hi DK,
Indeed Jesus was the lamb without blemished sacrificed to atone for the sins of mankind.
But in another sense he gave up and sacrificed his own life on the basis of belief in a promiseJohn 10:17
Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
agreed….but the point i am making is Jesus was just a willing partcipant in God's plan to save mankind from eternal death…Yes he gave up his life…but he being one who showed mastery over death by means of Gods spirit…knew full well that God would “raise up his temple” again in 3 days…
Again…This was GOD's sacrifice…not Jesus
DK….scripture plainly show that God sacrificed His son for the Sins of the world. Jesus was God's sacrificial lamb. Lets stop there for a moment and ask why did God do that He never Sinned Did He, so why did He have to sacrifice anything. What did God Show by this then, if you understand that GOD created both good and evil and that He was the one who immersed man into this state were in, in a sense He takes full responsibility for all Sin then and so He had to sacrifice something very close to him and remember it says without the shedding of Blood there is (NO) forgiveness of Sin. But we also have to understand Jesus did not have to do it, because it says it pleased God (IF) he would pour out his flesh unto death. Ask yourself why would it(Please) God for Jesus to die because it showed complete total trust and reliance on Him and you can't ask for more then that of anyone. And thats what pleased the Father. Another thing by that sacrifice God was able to cancel out all sin against us, by way of payment for us , so he bought us back so to speak from sure death. God the Father wants us to grow to the full measure of Christ so we would do exactly what he did and some already have did that.
IMO…..gene
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