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Quote (Ed J @ July 24 2012,03:46) Urantia Book & The Bible – cohesion or conflict?
The Old Testament and the New Testament – cohesion or conflict?The expectations of the Jewish Messiah and the actuality of The Son of God – cohesion or conflict?
John the Baptist “Beware of the wrath to come”, what actually came – cohesion or conflict?
Elijah must come first, his name was John – cohesion or conflict?
Colter
Quote (Colter @ July 24 2012,04:14) Quote (Ed J @ July 24 2012,03:46) Urantia Book & The Bible – cohesion or conflict?
The Old Testament and the New Testament – cohesion or conflict?(1)The expectations of the Jewish Messiah and the actuality of The Son of God – cohesion or conflict?
(2)John the Baptist “Beware of the wrath to come”, what actually came – cohesion or conflict?
(3)Elijah must come first, his name was John – cohesion or conflict?
Colter
Hi Colter, are these not meant as distractions to take the heat off the UB?1) Biblical prophecy concerning Jesus was fulfilled. (Acts 3:18) …what the Jewish expectations are irreverent here; are they not?
2) Wrath is on the children of disobedience. (Eph. 5:6)
3) The spirit of Elijah did come first. (Matt. 17:12)Quote The Old Testament and the New Testament – cohesion or conflict?
cohesionGod bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ July 24 2012,04:54) Quote (Colter @ July 24 2012,04:14) Quote (Ed J @ July 24 2012,03:46) Urantia Book & The Bible – cohesion or conflict?
The Old Testament and the New Testament – cohesion or conflict?(1)The expectations of the Jewish Messiah and the actuality of The Son of God – cohesion or conflict?
(2)John the Baptist “Beware of the wrath to come”, what actually came – cohesion or conflict?
(3)Elijah must come first, his name was John – cohesion or conflict?
Colter
Hi Colter, are these not meant as distractions to take the heat off the UB?1) Biblical prophecy concerning Jesus was fulfilled. (Acts 3:18) …what the Jewish expectations are irreverent here; are they not?
2) Wrath is on the children of disobedience. (Eph. 5:6)
3) The spirit of Elijah did come first. (Matt. 17:12)Quote The Old Testament and the New Testament – cohesion or conflict?
cohesionGod bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
No, partial prophecy was fulfilled, other parts are in contradiction to the spirit and mature of the Father in the flesh.No wrath came, only the revelation of a Loving Father.
It doesn’t say “the spirit of Elijah”, you are rationalizing.
The way I deal with stuff like that is to concede that some things in the Bible are correct and some are not. The Bible does not have to be perfect for me to have Father in God.
Jesus of the UB:
“Today you see this fulfilled before your eyes. But you shall not see the remainder of the Psalmist’s prophecy fulfilled, for he entertained erroneous ideas about the Son of Man and his mission on earth. My kingdom is founded on love, proclaimed in mercy, and established by unselfish service. My Father does not sit in heaven laughing in derision at the heathen. He is not wrathful in his great displeasure. True is the promise that the Son shall have these so-called heathen (in reality his ignorant and untaught brethren) for an inheritance. And I will receive these gentiles with open arms of mercy and affection. All this loving-kindness shall be shown the so-called heathen, notwithstanding the unfortunate declaration of the record which intimates that the triumphant Son ‘shall break them with a rod of iron and dash them to pieces like a potter’s vessel.’ The Psalmist exhorted you to ‘serve the Lord with fear’ — I bid you enter into the exalted privileges of divine sonship by faith; he commands you to rejoice with trembling; I bid you rejoice with assurance. He says, ‘Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and you perish when his wrath is kindled.’ But you who have lived with me well know that anger and wrath are not a part of the establishment of the kingdom of heaven in the hearts of men. But the Psalmist did glimpse the true light when, in finishing this exhortation, he said: ‘Blessed are they who put their trust in this Son.’”
Colter
Quote (Colter @ July 24 2012,05:20) Quote (Ed J @ July 24 2012,04:54) Quote (Colter @ July 24 2012,04:14) Quote (Ed J @ July 24 2012,03:46) Urantia Book & The Bible – cohesion or conflict?
The Old Testament and the New Testament – cohesion or conflict?(1)The expectations of the Jewish Messiah and the actuality of The Son of God – cohesion or conflict?
(2)John the Baptist “Beware of the wrath to come”, what actually came – cohesion or conflict?
(3)Elijah must come first, his name was John – cohesion or conflict?
Colter
Hi Colter, are these not meant as distractions to take the heat off the UB?1) Biblical prophecy concerning Jesus was fulfilled. (Acts 3:18) …what the Jewish expectations are irreverent here; are they not?
2) Wrath is on the children of disobedience. (Eph. 5:6)
3) The spirit of Elijah did come first. (Matt. 17:12)Quote The Old Testament and the New Testament – cohesion or conflict?
cohesionGod bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
No, partial prophecy was fulfilled, other parts are in contradiction to the spirit and mature of the Father in the flesh.No wrath came, only the revelation of a Loving Father.
It doesn’t say “the spirit of Elijah”, you are rationalizing.
The way I deal with stuff like that is to concede that some things in the Bible are correct and some are not. The Bible does not have to be perfect for me to have Father in God.
Jesus of the UB:
“Today you see this fulfilled before your eyes. But you shall not see the remainder of the Psalmist’s prophecy fulfilled, for he entertained erroneous ideas about the Son of Man and his mission on earth. My kingdom is founded on love, proclaimed in mercy, and established by unselfish service. My Father does not sit in heaven laughing in derision at the heathen. He is not wrathful in his great displeasure. True is the promise that the Son shall have these so-called heathen (in reality his ignorant and untaught brethren) for an inheritance. And I will receive these gentiles with open arms of mercy and affection. All this loving-kindness shall be shown the so-called heathen, notwithstanding the unfortunate declaration of the record which intimates that the triumphant Son ‘shall break them with a rod of iron and dash them to pieces like a potter’s vessel.’ The Psalmist exhorted you to ‘serve the Lord with fear’ — I bid you enter into the exalted privileges of divine sonship by faith; he commands you to rejoice with trembling; I bid you rejoice with assurance. He says, ‘Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and you perish when his wrath is kindled.’ But you who have lived with me well know that anger and wrath are not a part of the establishment of the kingdom of heaven in the hearts of men. But the Psalmist did glimpse the true light when, in finishing this exhortation, he said: ‘Blessed are they who put their trust in this Son.’”
Colter
Colter.This gospel of the kingdom must be preached in all the earth and then the end will come.
2000yr old Prophesy fulfilled.wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ July 24 2012,05:49) Quote (Colter @ July 24 2012,05:20) Quote (Ed J @ July 24 2012,04:54) Quote (Colter @ July 24 2012,04:14) Quote (Ed J @ July 24 2012,03:46) Urantia Book & The Bible – cohesion or conflict?
The Old Testament and the New Testament – cohesion or conflict?(1)The expectations of the Jewish Messiah and the actuality of The Son of God – cohesion or conflict?
(2)John the Baptist “Beware of the wrath to come”, what actually came – cohesion or conflict?
(3)Elijah must come first, his name was John – cohesion or conflict?
Colter
Hi Colter, are these not meant as distractions to take the heat off the UB?1) Biblical prophecy concerning Jesus was fulfilled. (Acts 3:18) …what the Jewish expectations are irreverent here; are they not?
2) Wrath is on the children of disobedience. (Eph. 5:6)
3) The spirit of Elijah did come first. (Matt. 17:12)Quote The Old Testament and the New Testament – cohesion or conflict?
cohesionGod bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
No, partial prophecy was fulfilled, other parts are in contradiction to the spirit and mature of the Father in the flesh.No wrath came, only the revelation of a Loving Father.
It doesn’t say “the spirit of Elijah”, you are rationalizing.
The way I deal with stuff like that is to concede that some things in the Bible are correct and some are not. The Bible does not have to be perfect for me to have Father in God.
Jesus of the UB:
“Today you see this fulfilled before your eyes. But you shall not see the remainder of the Psalmist’s prophecy fulfilled, for he entertained erroneous ideas about the Son of Man and his mission on earth. My kingdom is founded on love, proclaimed in mercy, and established by unselfish service. My Father does not sit in heaven laughing in derision at the heathen. He is not wrathful in his great displeasure. True is the promise that the Son shall have these so-called heathen (in reality his ignorant and untaught brethren) for an inheritance. And I will receive these gentiles with open arms of mercy and affection. All this loving-kindness shall be shown the so-called heathen, notwithstanding the unfortunate declaration of the record which intimates that the triumphant Son ‘shall break them with a rod of iron and dash them to pieces like a potter’s vessel.’ The Psalmist exhorted you to ‘serve the Lord with fear’ — I bid you enter into the exalted privileges of divine sonship by faith; he commands you to rejoice with trembling; I bid you rejoice with assurance. He says, ‘Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and you perish when his wrath is kindled.’ But you who have lived with me well know that anger and wrath are not a part of the establishment of the kingdom of heaven in the hearts of men. But the Psalmist did glimpse the true light when, in finishing this exhortation, he said: ‘Blessed are they who put their trust in this Son.’”
Colter
Colter.This gospel of the kingdom must be preached in all the earth and then the end will come.
2000yr old Prophesy fulfilled.wakeup.
The gospel changed the day after Pentecost, a new gospel began to develop, then came Paul with his own personal religious baggage which was fastened onto the new gospel.Beginnings of the Christian Church
(2066.1) 194:4.1 When Jesus was so suddenly seized by his enemies and so quickly crucified between two thieves, his apostles and disciples were completely demoralized. The thought of the Master, arrested, bound, scourged, and crucified, was too much for even the apostles. They forgot his teachings and his warnings. He might, indeed, have been “a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people,” but he could hardly be the Messiah they had hoped would restore the kingdom of Israel.
(2066.2) 194:4.2 Then comes the resurrection, with its deliverance from despair and the return of their faith in the Master’s divinity. Again and again they see him and talk with him, and he takes them out on Olivet, where he bids them farewell and tells them he is going back to the Father. He has told them to tarry in Jerusalem until they are endowed with power — until the Spirit of Truth shall come. And on the day of Pentecost this new teacher comes, and they go out at once to preach their gospel with new power. They are the bold and courageous followers of a living Lord, not a dead and defeated leader. The Master lives in the hearts of these evangelists; God is not a doctrine in their minds; he has become a living presence in their souls.
(2066.3) 194:4.3 “Day by day they continued steadfastly and with one accord in the temple and breaking bread at home. They took their food with gladness and singleness of heart, praising God and having favor with all the people. They were all filled with the spirit, and they spoke the word of God with boldness. And the multitudes of those who believed were of one heart and soul; and not one of them said that aught of the things which he possessed was his own, and they had all things in common.”
(2066.4) 194:4.4 What has happened to these men whom Jesus had ordained to go forth preaching the gospel of the kingdom, the fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of man? They have a new gospel; they are on fire with a new experience; they are filled with a new spiritual energy. Their message has suddenly shifted to the proclamation of the risen Christ: “Jesus of Nazareth, a man God approved by mighty works and wonders; him, being delivered up by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, you did crucify and slay. The things which God foreshadowed by the mouth of all the prophets, he thus fulfilled. This Jesus did God raise up. God has made him both Lord and Christ. Being, by the right hand of God, exalted and having received from the Father the promise of the spirit, he has poured forth this which you see and hear. Repent, that your sins may be blotted out; that the Father may send the Christ, who has been appointed for you, even Jesus, whom the heaven must receive until the times of the restoration of all things.”
(2066.5) 194:4.5 The gospel of the kingdom, the message of Jesus, had been suddenly changed into the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. They now proclaimed the facts of his life, death, and resurrection and
preached the hope of his speedy return to this world to finish the work he began. Thus the message of the early believers had to do with preaching about the facts of his first coming and with teaching the hope of his second coming, an event which they deemed to be very near at hand.(2067.1) 194:4.6 Christ was about to become the creed of the rapidly forming church. Jesus lives; he died for men; he gave the spirit; he is coming again. Jesus filled all their thoughts and determined all their new concept of God and everything else. They were too much enthused over the new doctrine that “God is the Father of the Lord Jesus” to be concerned with the old message that “God is the loving Father of all men,” even of every single individual. True, a marvelous manifestation of brotherly love and unexampled good will did spring up in these early communities of believers. But it was a fellowship of believers in Jesus, not a fellowship of brothers in the family kingdom of the Father in heaven. Their good will arose from the love born of the concept of Jesus’ bestowal and not from the recognition of the brotherhood of mortal man. Nevertheless, they were filled with joy, and they lived such new and unique lives that all men were attracted to their teachings about Jesus. They made the great mistake of using the living and illustrative commentary on the gospel of the kingdom for that gospel, but even that represented the greatest religion mankind had ever known.
(2067.2) 194:4.7 Unmistakably, a new fellowship was arising in the world. “The multitude who believed continued steadfastly in the apostles’ teaching and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in prayers.” They called each other brother and sister; they greeted one another with a holy kiss; they ministered to the poor. It was a fellowship of living as well as of worship. They were not communal by decree but by the desire to share their goods with their fellow believers. They confidently expected that Jesus would return to complete the establishment of the Father’s kingdom during their generation. This spontaneous sharing of earthly possessions was not a direct feature of Jesus’ teaching; it came about because these men and women so sincerely and so confidently believed that he was to return any day to finish his work and to consummate the kingdom. But the final results of this well-meant experiment in thoughtless brotherly love were disastrous and sorrow-breeding. Thousands of earnest believers sold their property and disposed of all their capital goods and other productive assets. With the passing of time, the dwindling resources of Christian “equal-sharing” came to an end — but the world did not. Very soon the believers at Antioch were taking up a collection to keep their fellow believers at Jerusalem from starving.
(2067.3) 194:4.8 In these days they celebrated the Lord’s Supper after the manner of its establishment; that is, they assembled for a social meal of good fellowship and partook of the sacrament at the end of the meal.
(2067.4) 194:4.9 At first they baptized in the name of Jesus; it was almost twenty years before they began to baptize in “the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.” Baptism was all that was required for admission into the fellowship of believers. They had no organization as yet; it was simply the Jesus brotherhood.
(2067.5) 194:4.10 This Jesus sect was growing rapidly, and once more the Sadducees took notice of them. The Pharisees were little bothered about the situation, seeing that none of the teachings in any way interfered with the observance of the Jewish laws. But the Sadducees began to put the leaders of the Jesus sect in jail until they were prevailed upon to accept the counsel of one of the leading rabbis, Gamaliel, who advised them: “Refrain from these men and let them alone, for if this counsel or this work is of men, it will be overthrown; but if it is of God, you will not be able to overthrow them, lest haply you be found even to be fighting against God.” They decided to follow Gamaliel’s counsel, and there ensued a time of peace and quiet in Jerusalem, during which the new gospel about Jesus spread rapidly.
(2068.1) 194:4.11 And so all went well in Jerusalem until the time of the coming of the Greeks in large numbers from Alexandria. Two of the pupils of Rodan arrived in Jerusalem and made many converts from among the Hellenists. Among their early converts were Stephen and Barnabas. These able Greeks did not so much have the Jewish viewpoint, and they did not so well conform to the Jewish mode of worship and other ceremonial practices. And it was the doings of these Greek believers that terminated the peaceful relations between the Jesus brotherhood and the Pharisees and Sadducees. Stephen and his Greek associate began to preach more as Jesus taught, and this brought them into immediate conflict with the Jewish rulers. In one of Stephen’s public sermons, when he reached the objectionable part of the discourse, they dispensed with all formalities of trial and proceeded to stone him to death on the spot.
(2068.2) 194:4.12 Stephen, the leader of the Greek colony of Jesus’ believers in Jerusalem, thus became the first martyr to the new faith and the specific cause for the formal organization of the early Christian church. This new crisis was met by the recognition that believers could not longer go on as a sect within the Jewish faith. They all agreed that they must separate themselves from unbelievers; and within one month from the death of Stephen the church at Jerusalem had been organized under the leadership of Peter, and James the brother of Jesus had been installed as its titular head.
(2068.3) 194:4.13 And then broke out the new and relentless persecutions by the Jews, so that the active teachers of the new religion about Jesus, which subsequently at Antioch was called Christianity, went forth to the ends of the empire proclaiming Jesus. In carrying this message, before the time of Paul the leadership was in Greek hands; and these first missionaries, as also the later ones, followed the path of Alexander’s march of former days, going by way of Gaza and Tyre to Antioch and then over Asia Minor to Macedonia, then on to Rome and to the uttermost parts of the empire.
Colter
Quote (Colter @ July 24 2012,07:32) Quote (Wakeup @ July 24 2012,05:49) Quote (Colter @ July 24 2012,05:20) Quote (Ed J @ July 24 2012,04:54) Quote (Colter @ July 24 2012,04:14) Quote (Ed J @ July 24 2012,03:46) Urantia Book & The Bible – cohesion or conflict?
The Old Testament and the New Testament – cohesion or conflict?(1)The expectations of the Jewish Messiah and the actuality of The Son of God – cohesion or conflict?
(2)John the Baptist “Beware of the wrath to come”, what actually came – cohesion or conflict?
(3)Elijah must come first, his name was John – cohesion or conflict?
Colter
Hi Colter, are these not meant as distractions to take the heat off the UB?1) Biblical prophecy concerning Jesus was fulfilled. (Acts 3:18) …what the Jewish expectations are irreverent here; are they not?
2) Wrath is on the children of disobedience. (Eph. 5:6)
3) The spirit of Elijah did come first. (Matt. 17:12)Quote The Old Testament and the New Testament – cohesion or conflict?
cohesionGod bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
No, partial prophecy was fulfilled, other parts are in contradiction to the spirit and mature of the Father in the flesh.No wrath came, only the revelation of a Loving Father.
It doesn’t say “the spirit of Elijah”, you are rationalizing.
The way I deal with stuff like that is to concede that some things in the Bible are correct and some are not. The Bible does not have to be perfect for me to have Father in God.
Jesus of the UB:
“Today you see this fulfilled before your eyes. But you shall not see the remainder of the Psalmist’s prophecy fulfilled, for he entertained erroneous ideas about the Son of Man and his mission on earth. My kingdom is founded on love, proclaimed in mercy, and established by unselfish service. My Father does not sit in heaven laughing in derision at the heathen. He is not wrathful in his great displeasure. True is the promise that the Son shall have these so-called heathen (in reality his ignorant and untaught brethren) for an inheritance. And I will receive these gentiles with open arms of mercy and affection. All this loving-kindness shall be shown the so-called heathen, notwithstanding the unfortunate declaration of the record which intimates that the triumphant Son ‘shall break them with a rod of iron and dash them to pieces like a potter’s vessel.’ The Psalmist exhorted you to ‘serve the Lord with fear’ — I bid you enter into the exalted privileges of divine sonship by faith; he commands you to rejoice with trembling; I bid you rejoice with assurance. He says, ‘Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and you perish when his wrath is kindled.’ But you who have lived with me well know that anger and wrath are not a part of the establishment of the kingdom of heaven in the hearts of men. But the Psalmist did glimpse the true light when, in finishing this exhortation, he said: ‘Blessed are they who put their trust in this Son.’”
Colter
Colter.This gospel of the kingdom must be preached in all the earth and then the end will come.
2000yr old Prophesy fulfilled.wakeup.
The gospel changed the day after Pentecost, a new gospel began to develop, then came Paul with his own personal religious baggage which was fastened onto the new gospel.Beginnings of the Christian Church
(2066.1) 194:4.1 When Jesus was so suddenly seized by his enemies and so quickly crucified between two thieves, his apostles and disciples were completely demoralized. The thought of the Master, arrested, bound, scourged, and crucified, was too much for even the apostles. They forgot his teachings and his warnings. He might, indeed, have been “a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people,” but he could hardly be the Messiah they had hoped would restore the kingdom of Israel.
(2066.2) 194:4.2 Then comes the resurrection, with its deliverance from despair and the return of their faith in the Master’s divinity. Again and again they see him and talk with him, and he takes them out on Olivet, where he bids them farewell and tells them he is going back to the Father. He has told them to tarry in Jerusalem until they are endowed with power — until the Spirit of Truth shall come. And on the day of Pentecost this new teacher comes, and they go out at once to preach their gospel with new power. They are the bold and courageous followers of a living Lord, not a dead and defeated leader. The Master lives in the hearts of these evangelists; God is not a doctrine in their minds; he has become a living presence in their souls.
(2066.3) 194:4.3 “Day by day they continued steadfastly and with one accord in the temple and breaking bread at home. They took their food with gladness and singleness of heart, praising God and having favor with all the people. They were all filled with the spirit, and they spoke the word of God with boldness. And the multitudes of those who believed were of one heart and soul; and not one of them said that aught of the things which he possessed was his own, and they had all things in common.”
(2066.4) 194:4.4 What has happened to these men whom Jesus had ordained to go forth preaching the gospel of the kingdom, the fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of man? They have a new gospel; they are on fire with a new experience; they are filled with a new spiritual energy. Their message has suddenly shifted to the proclamation of the risen Christ: “Jesus of Nazareth, a man God approved by mighty works and wonders; him, being delivered up by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, you did crucify and slay. The things which God foreshadowed by the mouth of all the prophets, he thus fulfilled. This Jesus did God raise up. God has made him both Lord and Christ. Being, by the right hand of God, exalted and having received from the Father the promise of the spirit, he has poured forth this which you see and hear. Repent, that your sins may be blotted out; that the Father may send the Christ, who has been appointed for you, even Jesus, whom the heaven must receive until the times of the restoration of all things.”
(2066.5) 194:4.5
The gospel of the kingdom, the message of Jesus, had been suddenly changed into the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. They now proclaimed the facts of his life, death, and resurrection and preached the hope of his speedy return to this world to finish the work he began. Thus the message of the early believers had to do with preaching about the facts of his first coming and with teaching the hope of his second coming, an event which they deemed to be very near at hand.(2067.1) 194:4.6 Christ was about to become the creed of the rapidly forming church. Jesus lives; he died for men; he gave the spirit; he is coming again. Jesus filled all their thoughts and determined all their new concept of God and everything else. They were too much enthused over the new doctrine that “God is the Father of the Lord Jesus” to be concerned with the old message that “God is the loving Father of all men,” even of every single individual. True, a marvelous manifestation of brotherly love and unexampled good will did spring up in these early communities of believers. But it was a fellowship of believers in Jesus, not a fellowship of brothers in the family kingdom of the Father in heaven. Their good will arose from the love born of the concept of Jesus’ bestowal and not from the recognition of the brotherhood of mortal man. Nevertheless, they were filled with joy, and they lived such new and unique lives that all men were attracted to their teachings about Jesus. They made the great mistake of using the living and illustrative commentary on the gospel of the kingdom for that gospel, but even that represented the greatest religion mankind had ever known.
(2067.2) 194:4.7 Unmistakably, a new fellowship was arising in the world. “The multitude who believed continued steadfastly in the apostles’ teaching and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in prayers.” They called each other brother and sister; they greeted one another with a holy kiss; they ministered to the poor. It was a fellowship of living as well as of worship. They were not communal by decree but by the desire to share their goods with their fellow believers. They confidently expected that Jesus would return to complete the establishment of the Father’s kingdom during their generation. This spontaneous sharing of earthly possessions was not a direct feature of Jesus’ teaching; it came about because these men and women so sincerely and so confidently believed that he was to return any day to finish his work and to consummate the kingdom. But the final results of this well-meant experiment in thoughtless brotherly love were disastrous and sorrow-breeding. Thousands of earnest believers sold their property and disposed of all their capital goods and other productive assets. With the passing of time, the dwindling resources of Christian “equal-sharing” came to an end — but the world did not. Very soon the believers at Antioch were taking up a collection to keep their fellow believers at Jerusalem from starving.
(2067.3) 194:4.8 In these days they celebrated the Lord’s Supper after the manner of its establishment; that is, they assembled for a social meal of good fellowship and partook of the sacrament at the end of the meal.
(2067.4) 194:4.9 At first they baptized in the name of Jesus; it was almost twenty years before they began to baptize in “the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.” Baptism was all that was required for admission into the fellowship of believers. They had no organization as yet; it was simply the Jesus brotherhood.
(2067.5) 194:4.10 This Jesus sect was growing rapidly, and once more the Sadducees took notice of them. The Pharisees were little bothered about the situation, seeing that none of the teachings in any way interfered with the observance of the Jewish laws. But the Sadducees began to put the leaders of the Jesus sect in jail until they were prevailed upon to accept the counsel of one of the leading rabbis, Gamaliel, who advised them: “Refrain from these men and let them alone, for if this counsel or this work is of men, it will be overthrown; but if it is of God, you will not be able to overthrow them, lest haply you be found even to be fighting against God.” They decided to follow Gamaliel’s counsel, and there ensued a time of peace and quiet in Jerusalem, during which the new gospel about Jesus spread rapidly.
(2068.1) 194:4.11 And so all went well in Jerusalem until the time of the coming of the Greeks in large numbers from Alexandria. Two of the pupils of Rodan arrived in Jerusalem and made many converts from among the Hellenists. Among their early converts were Stephen and Barnabas. These able Greeks did not so much have the Jewish viewpoint, and they did not so well conform to the Jewish mode of worship and other ceremonial practices. And it was the doings of these Greek believers that terminated the peaceful relations between the Jesus brotherhood and the Pharisees and Sadducees. Stephen and his Greek associate began to preach more as Jesus taught, and this brought them into immediate conflict with the Jewish rulers. In one of Stephen’s public sermons, when he reached the objectionable part of the discourse, they dispensed with all formalities of trial and proceeded to stone him to death on the spot.
(2068.2) 194:4.12 Stephen, the leader of the Greek colony of Jesus’ believers in Jerusalem, thus became the first martyr to the new faith and the specific cause for the formal organization of the early Christian church. This new crisis was met by the recognition that believers could not longer go on as a sect within the Jewish faith. They all agreed that they must separate themselves from unbelievers; and within one month from the death of Stephen the church at Jerusalem had been organized under the leadership of Peter, and James the brother of Jesus had been installed as its titular head.
(2068.3) 194:4.13 And then broke out the new and relentless persecutions by the Jews, so that the active teachers of the new religion about Jesus, which subsequently at Antioch was called Christianity, went forth to the ends of the empire proclaiming Jesus. In carrying this message, before the time of Paul the leadership was in Greek hands; and these first missionaries, as also the later ones, followed the path of Alexander’s march of former days, going by way of Gaza and Tyre to Antioch and then over Asia Minor to Macedonia, then on to Rome and to the uttermost parts of the empire.
Colter
Its not going to work Colter,we have 12 true witnesses that walked and talked and ate with jesus,and touched him.How many witnesses have you got?
You dont even know who you follow; he hasnt even got a name. He is anonymous. He coud be mr.lsd, or mr speed,as far as I know.wakeup.
colter
it seems you UB book is part of the tree books of men; 1) Joseph Smith (mormon book) 2) Muhammad (the Koran ) 3) the Urantia Book (yours)
all tree of thos books use the Bible why is that
and yet all tree pulls you away from the bible why is that Quote (terraricca @ July 24 2012,08:49) colter it seems you UB book is part of the tree books of men; 1) Joseph Smith (mormon book) 2) Muhammad (the Koran ) 3) the Urantia Book (yours)
all tree of thos books use the Bible why is that
and yet all tree pulls you away from the bible why is that
Thats a very good and true comment Terra.wakeup.
Quote (Colter @ July 22 2012,19:22) To follow your logic to it's conclusion you are saying that the master of the house, who planted the vineyard wanted his servants to be killed, that he wanted his son to be rejected and killed.
Where do you get “WANTED” ? Just because God has the ability to KNOW what will happen ahead of time doesn't mean He WANTS it to happen that way, does it?Matthew 23:34
Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.Should Jesus have refused to send these prophets and wise men because he knew some would be killed and flogged in the process of furthering the knowledge of the Kingdom of God?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 24 2012,10:28) Quote (Colter @ July 22 2012,19:22) To follow your logic to it's conclusion you are saying that the master of the house, who planted the vineyard wanted his servants to be killed, that he wanted his son to be rejected and killed.
Where do you get “WANTED” ? Just because God has the ability to KNOW what will happen ahead of time doesn't mean He WANTS it to happen that way, does it?Matthew 23:34
Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.Should Jesus have refused to send these prophets and wise men because he knew some would be killed and flogged in the process of furthering the knowledge of the Kingdom of God?
I’m just showing you how ridiculous that is in light of Jesus’ denunciation of those who rejected his original gospel of salvation that he offered to anyone who would receive it.I was the will of the Father that mankind receive his sons merciful gospel.
…..but at the same time, and for a completely different reason, the Father asked the Son to experience ALL that his own created beings experience; death is an ordinary part of life for all of us.
Jesus was already forgiving, the Father has always been forgiving, and blood sacrifice is from evolved, man made religion.
Colter
Hi Colter,
The Bible that I trust as the written word of God disagrees with you and your UB.
There is no reason to fight about it – it's just that you believe the words of one book, while I believe the words of another.
In the end we'll know the truth of the matter.
Take care of yourself,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ July 24 2012,11:11) Hi Colter, The Bible that I trust as the written word of God disagrees with you and your UB.
There is no reason to fight about it – it's just that you believe the words of one book, while I believe the words of another.
In the end we'll know the truth of the matter.
Take care of yourself,
mike
Your book actually says both, but I agree that arguing about it isn't working.Take care
Colter
Quote (Wakeup @ July 24 2012,16:03) Quote (terraricca @ July 24 2012,08:49) colter it seems you UB book is part of the tree books of men; 1) Joseph Smith (mormon book) 2) Muhammad (the Koran ) 3) the Urantia Book (yours)
all tree of thos books use the Bible why is that
and yet all tree pulls you away from the bible why is that
Thats a very good and true comment Terra.wakeup.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 17 2012,13:05) Quote (Colter @ July 16 2012,20:03) He claimed divinity while on earth in the Bible.
I don't know of that scripture off hand, but how would a divine being BECOMING flesh prohibit him from being divine?Like I said, neither of our understandings make a distinction on this matter, so I'm not sure why you would ask that question.
MikeB.Jesus was without sin;you can say that he is the chief saint, on earth,he is our big brother saint.
Saints are the ones sanctified; made clean,Holy.
We also ; if we walk with Christ,we are saints.
There are saints here on earth today; when the false prophet comes to rule,he will make war with the saints,and kill some.Rev20:6. —-they shall be priests of God and Christ,and shall reign with him a1000yrs.
Re' the soul: We have the light bulb; and the electricity(power). The soul is the light it gives out.
When the bulb is finished;the power goes back to the power station, but the light it gives during the life of the bulb is preserved,and in the resurrection it will be given power it self.Some bulbs shines brighter than others,all according to measure.The 24 elders in rev,4:4. are our chief saints,under Christ,with crowns on their heads.
wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ July 24 2012,22:24) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 17 2012,13:05) Quote (Colter @ July 16 2012,20:03) He claimed divinity while on earth in the Bible.
I don't know of that scripture off hand, but how would a divine being BECOMING flesh prohibit him from being divine?Like I said, neither of our understandings make a distinction on this matter, so I'm not sure why you would ask that question.
MikeB.Jesus was without sin;you can say that he is the chief saint, on earth,he is our big brother saint.
Saints are the ones sanctified; made clean,Holy.
We also ; if we walk with Christ,we are saints.
There are saints here on earth today; when the false prophet comes to rule,he will make war with the saints,and kill some.Rev20:6. —-they shall be priests of God and Christ,and shall reign with him a1000yrs.
Re' the soul: We have the light bulb; and the electricity(power). The soul is the light it gives out.
When the bulb is finished;the power goes back to the power station, but the light it gives during the life of the bulb is preserved,and in the resurrection it will be given power it self.Some bulbs shines brighter than others,all according to measure.The 24 elders in rev,4:4. are our chief saints,under Christ,with crowns on their heads.
wakeup.
wakeupQuote Jesus was without sin;you can say that he is the chief saint, on earth,he is our big brother saint.
Saints are the ones sanctified; made clean,Holy.the first few words are true ;Jesus was without sin;but the only reason for it is that he is born through the will of God and was the first creation of God he changed him into a man to pay the prize of our sins ,if he would not be this ;then he could not save us because he would have been born under the curse of dead by Adam ,: all die in Adam and all are brought a live through Christ for this Christ at to be some thing more than a man he was a spirit of live,HE HIS THE WORD OF GOD AND HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON
The Urantia Book
Paper 89
Sin, Sacrifice, and Atonement
(974.1) 89:0.1 PRIMITIVE man regarded himself as being in debt to the spirits, as standing in need of redemption. As the savages looked at it, in justice the spirits might have visited much more bad luck upon them. As time passed, this concept developed into the doctrine of sin and salvation. The soul was looked upon as coming into the world under forfeit — original sin. The soul must be ransomed; a scapegoat must be provided. The head-hunter, in addition to practicing the cult of skull worship, was able to provide a substitute for his own life, a scapeman.
(974.2) 89:0.2 The savage was early possessed with the notion that spirits derive supreme satisfaction from the sight of human misery, suffering, and humiliation. At first, man was only concerned with sins of commission, but later he became exercised over sins of omission. And the whole subsequent sacrificial system grew up around these two ideas. This new ritual had to do with the observance of the propitiation ceremonies of sacrifice. Primitive man believed that something special must be done to win the favor of the gods; only advanced civilization recognizes a consistently even-tempered and benevolent God. Propitiation was insurance against immediate ill luck rather than investment in future bliss. And the rituals of avoidance, exorcism, coercion, and propitiation all merge into one another…..”
Colter
Quote (terraricca @ July 24 2012,15:45) Quote (Wakeup @ July 24 2012,22:24) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 17 2012,13:05) Quote (Colter @ July 16 2012,20:03) He claimed divinity while on earth in the Bible.
I don't know of that scripture off hand, but how would a divine being BECOMING flesh prohibit him from being divine?Like I said, neither of our understandings make a distinction on this matter, so I'm not sure why you would ask that question.
MikeB.Jesus was without sin;you can say that he is the chief saint, on earth,he is our big brother saint.
Saints are the ones sanctified; made clean,Holy.
We also ; if we walk with Christ,we are saints.
There are saints here on earth today; when the false prophet comes to rule,he will make war with the saints,and kill some.Rev20:6. —-they shall be priests of God and Christ,and shall reign with him a1000yrs.
Re' the soul: We have the light bulb; and the electricity(power). The soul is the light it gives out.
When the bulb is finished;the power goes back to the power station, but the light it gives during the life of the bulb is preserved,and in the resurrection it will be given power it self.Some bulbs shines brighter than others,all according to measure.The 24 elders in rev,4:4. are our chief saints,under Christ,with crowns on their heads.
wakeup.
wakeupQuote Jesus was without sin;you can say that he is the chief saint, on earth,he is our big brother saint.
Saints are the ones sanctified; made clean,Holy.the first few words are true ;Jesus was without sin;but the only reason for it is that he is born through the will of God and was the first creation of God he changed him into a man to pay the prize of our sins ,if he would not be this ;then he could not save us because he would have been born under the curse of dead by Adam ,: all die in Adam and all are brought a live through Christ for this Christ at to be some thing more than a man he was a spirit of live,HE HIS THE WORD OF GOD AND HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON
Terra.Which of my words are not true?state your case.
wakeup.
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