The Urantia Book The Bible

[Ed J]

Hi Colter,

I have just shown you where Jesus said he was “the Christ” –
do you not understand that “The Messiah” means “the Christ”?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Spock]

Quote (Ed J @ July 19 2012,00:06)

Hi Colter, I have just shown you where Jesus said he was “the Christ” – do you not understand that “The Messiah” means “the Christ”? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Hi Ed,

Does the Hebrew Priest’s concept of “The Messiah” mean “The Christ” in the same way that “Elijah” means “John the Baptist?”

“Behold I will send you Elijah the prophet before the great and terrible day of the Lord comes. And he will turn the hearts of fathers to their children and the hearts of children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the land with a curse.” (Malachi 4:5-6)

Oh, but lets us not be honest with ourselves, lets only extrapolate those pieces of scripture that seem to predict Jesus as the Messiah as understood by Judaism and blatantly ignore the inconsistencies!

And why do we do this, to justify the idolatrous notion that the Bible is divine and written by God!

God is living, we must keep our minds open to his leading and avoid the temptation of making idols of wood, gold or books…..including the UB

Colter

[Ed J]

Quote (Colter @ July 19 2012,00:49)

the idolatrous notion that the Bible is divine and written by God!

Perhaps Wakeup is right.

[Ed J]

Quote (Ed J @ July 19 2012,00:06)

I have just shown you where Jesus said he was “the Christ” – do you not understand that “The Messiah” means “the Christ”?

Hi Colter,

Will you please answer my question?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Spock]

Quote (Ed J @ July 19 2012,00:54)

Quote (Ed J @ July 19 2012,00:06) I have just shown you where Jesus said he was “the Christ” – do you not understand that “The Messiah” means “the Christ”? Hi Colter, Will you please answer my question? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Ed,

I have answered your question; the coming of the Son of God had been prophesized to seers and prophets. The Priest, who wrote, and rewrote, edited and redacted the OT books concocted wrong ideas about his coming, those wrong ideas can be found in the scripture.

The Son who did come was the basis of the erroneous concepts about the Jewish Messiah that evolved within their theology.

It's not the fault of the Son that he did not live up to their wrong expectations.

I think you are being dishonest Ed about the fact that Jesus did not live up to ALL the expectations the Jews had and the reason they reject Jesus.

You sound more like a biased grand inquisitor for
the church then an honest student of history or facts.

Colter

Colter

[Ed J]

Quote (Colter @ July 19 2012,01:33)

Quote (Ed J @ July 19 2012,00:54) Quote (Ed J @ July 19 2012,00:06) I have just shown you where Jesus said he was “the Christ” – do you not understand that “The Messiah” means “the Christ”? Hi Colter, Will you please answer my question? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Ed, I have answered your question; the coming of the Son of God had been prophesized to seers and prophets. The Priest, who wrote, and rewrote, edited and redacted the OT books concocted wrong ideas about his coming, those wrong ideas can be found in the scripture. The Son who did come was the basis of the erroneous concepts about the Jewish Messiah that evolved within their theology. It's not the fault of the Son that he did not live up to their wrong expectations. I think you are being dishonest Ed about the fact that Jesus did not live up to ALL the expectations the Jews had and the reason they reject Jesus. You sound more like a biased grand inquisitor for the church then an honest student of history or facts. Colter Colter

Hi Colter,

What the Jews thought of Jesus is  NOT  the point here.
The point is – Jesus is “The Messiah” – he said so himself.          

Are you now trying to skirt this by switching to what the Jews thought of him?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (Colter @ July 19 2012,01:33)

I think you are being dishonest Ed about the fact that Jesus did not live up to ALL the expectations the Jews had and the reason they reject Jesus.

Hi Colter,

That is 'irrelevant' to the point that I have been making to you – which is: Jesus is “The Messiah”.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Spock]

Hi Colter,

What the Jews thought of Jesus is NOT the point here.
The point is – Jesus is “The Messiah” – he said so himself.

Are you now trying to skirt this by switching to what the Jews thought of him?[/B]

No, not skirting, I have nothing to hide, some of the writings in the scripture point to a coming Son, other writings point to the Jewish concept of a Messiah.

The Son came, I agree
The Jewish Messiah didn't come.

What Jesus did and taught is different then some scriptural predictions though similar to others.

Jesus left, he did some of what the predicted Son was supposed to do.
Jesus did not do what the Jewish Messiah was supposed to do.

Its relevant because the Jewish expectation comes from their own scripture written by the priest.

Colter

[Ed J]

Hi Colter, does Jesus claim to be “The Messish” in this verse or not?     …please answer

John 4:25-26 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ:
when he is come, he will tell us all things. Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Spock]

Quote (Ed J @ July 19 2012,03:07)

Hi Colter, does Jesus claim to be “The Messish” in this verse or not?     …please answer John 4:25-26 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things. Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

The answer is YES, Jesus confirms that he is the Son of God around whom the conflicting concepts of the Messiah was constructed.

Jesus go's on to explain “when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews.  Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.  God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

Jesus was not the Jewish Messiah that the Jews THEN and NOW expect based on parts of the scripture, he was different then what some of the scriptures predicted.

Colter

Colter

[Ed J]

Hi Colter,

Jesus is “The Messiah” to all – not just the Jews.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Hi Colter,

Concerning “The Messiah” in Scripture – are you suggesting it is wrong?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Spock]

Quote (Ed J @ July 19 2012,04:43)

Hi Colter, Concerning “The Messiah” in Scripture – are you suggesting it is wrong? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

repost:

from a Messiah web site

Ezekiel 37:26-28: Build the Third Temple

Isaiah 43:5-6: Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel

Isaiah 2:4: Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. “Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore.”

Zechariah 14:9: Spread universal knowledge of the G-d of Israel – uniting the entire human race as one: “G-d will be King over all the world—on that day, G-d will be One and His Name will be One”

Jesus fulfilled none of these messianic prophecies. Additionally:

Jesus was not a prophet. Prophecy could only exist in Israel when the land is inhabited by a majority of world Jewry. During the time of Ezra (~300 BCE) the majority of Jews refused to move from Babylon to Israel, thus prophecy ended upon the death of the last prophets (Haggai, Zechariah and Malachi).

Jesus appeared on the scene approximately 350 years after prophecy had ended.

Jesus was not descended from King David. Per Genesis 49:10 and Isaiah 11:1, the Messiah must be descended on his father's side from King David. However, according to the Christian claim that Jesus was the product of a virgin birth, he had no father — and thus could not have possibly fulfilled the messianic requirement of being descended on his father's side from King David! The Christian idea of a virgin birth is derived from a verse in Isaiah describing an “alma” as giving birth. The word “alma” has always meant a young woman, but Christian theologians came centuries later and translated it as “virgin.”

This accords Jesus' birth with the first century pagan idea of mortals being impregnated by G-ds.

Tradition teaches that the Messiah will lead the Jewish people to full Torah observance. Deut. 13:1-4 states that all mitzvahs remain binding forever, and anyone coming to change the Torah is immediately identified as a false prophet. Throughout the New Testament, Jesus contradicts the Torah and states its commandments are no longer applicable. (John 1:45 and 9:16, Acts 3:22 and 7:37)

There's more.

[Ed J]

Quote (Ed J @ July 19 2012,04:43)

Hi Colter, Concerning “The Messiah” in Scripture – are you suggesting it is wrong? God bless Ed J

Hi Colter,

Quote (Colter @ July 19 2012,05:03)

Ezekiel 37:26-28: Build the Third Temple

The fulfillment is “Spiritual”

Quote (Colter @ July 19 2012,05:03)

Isaiah 43:5-6: Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel

Fulfilled

Quote (Colter @ July 19 2012,05:03)

Isaiah 2:4: Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. “Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore.”

In process

Quote (Colter @ July 19 2012,05:03)

Zechariah 14:9: Spread universal knowledge of the G-d of Israel – uniting the entire human race as one: “G-d will be King over all the world—on that day, G-d will be One and His Name will be One”

In process

Quote (Colter @ July 19 2012,05:03)

There's more.

There always is

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Hi Colter,

Quote (Colter @ July 19 2012,05:03)

Additionally: (1)Jesus was not a prophet. (2)Prophecy could only exist in Israel when the land is inhabited by a majority of world Jewry. During the time of Ezra (~300 BCE) the majority of Jews refused to move from Babylon to Israel, thus prophecy ended upon the death of the last prophets (Haggai, Zechariah and Malachi).

1) Scripture says he was
2) Not so

Quote (Colter @ July 19 2012,05:03)

Jesus appeared on the scene approximately 350 years after prophecy had ended.

                 “The time is fulfilled”

“Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching
the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and
the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.” (Mark 1:14-15)

       What does “The time is fulfilled” mean?

This one is on the seventy weeks in Daniel 9:24-27.  
I stalwartly suggest you watch this one too. These people
call themselves “the church of Christ” and they are well informed.

The time line, regarding this, starts at 15:25 through to 52:30.
Please watch it all the way to the end count that I have given you. (37 minutes)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Hi colter,

Quote (Colter @ July 19 2012,05:03)

(1)Jesus was not descended from King David. Per Genesis 49:10 and Isaiah 11:1, (2)the Messiah must be descended on his father's side from King David. However, according to the Christian claim that Jesus was the product of a virgin birth, he had no father — and thus could not have possibly fulfilled the messianic requirement of being descended on his father's side from King David! The Christian idea of a virgin birth is derived from a verse in Isaiah describing an “alma” as giving birth. The word “alma” has always meant a young woman, but Christian theologians came centuries later and translated it as “virgin.”

1) Yes, he was. (see Romans1:3)
2) On his mother's side. (see Luke 3:23-31)

Quote (Colter @ July 19 2012,05:03)

This accords Jesus' birth with the first century pagan idea of mortals being impregnated by G-ds.

Spin

Quote (Colter @ July 19 2012,05:03)

Tradition teaches that the Messiah will lead the Jewish people to full Torah observance. Deut. 13:1-4 states that all mitzvahs remain binding forever, and anyone coming to change the Torah is immediately identified as a false prophet. Throughout the New Testament, Jesus contradicts the Torah and states its commandments are no longer applicable. (John 1:45 and 9:16, Acts 3:22 and 7:37)

Need we explore these?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[mikeboll64]

Colter,

I believe Ed has done a fine job of showing you where Jesus himself claimed to be the awaited Messiah.  And if you look at Matthew 11:9, and Luke 1:76, you'll see that John the Baptist was indeed a prophet, making your claim, “prophecy ended upon the death of the last prophets (Haggai, Zechariah and Malachi)”, incorrect.

You can also see in Mark 6:3-4 that Jesus is definitely implying that he himself is a prophet.  Surely the Jews considered him a prophet.  In Acts 3:22, Peter said he was the prophet Moses foretold of in Deut 18:15.

I also agree with Ed that the Messianic prophesies that weren't fulfilled by Jesus during his time on earth are still to be fulfilled through him during and after the end of days.

[mikeboll64]

So then the scriptures, of which Jesus said, “not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished”, and “scripture cannot be broken”, are just the fabrications of exiled Jewish scribes?

Colter, who is the narrator in the UB? Is this stuff allegedly being spoken to a man (men) by an angel (celestial being)? What's the story of this book? (Briefly, please)

[Spock]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 20 2012,07:16)

So then the scriptures, of which Jesus said, “not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished”, and “scripture cannot be broken”, are just the fabrications of exiled Jewish scribes? Colter, who is the narrator in the UB?  Is this stuff allegedly being spoken to a man (men) by an angel (celestial being)?  What's the story of this book?  (Briefly, please)

I know a lot of the mysterious history but the UB but it stands on its own merrits. The story of the origins don't add any more to the revelation the Jesus being a known carpenter added to his authority. The mystery of who the revelators used went to the grave. They didn't want a saint Paul type of personality associated with the revelation.

Colter

[Ed J]

Quote (Colter @ July 20 2012,12:59)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 20 2012,07:16) So then the scriptures, of which Jesus said, “not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished”, and “scripture cannot be broken”, are just the fabrications of exiled Jewish scribes? Colter, who is the narrator in the UB?  Is this stuff allegedly being spoken to a man (men) by an angel (celestial being)?  What's the story of this book?  (Briefly, please) I  know a lot of the mysterious history but the UB but it stands on its own merrits. The story of the origins don't add any more to the revelation the Jesus  being a known carpenter added to his authority. The mystery of who the revelators used went to the grave. They didn't want a saint Paul type of personality associated with the revelation. Colter

Hi Colter,

Why don't you tell Mike – an alien wrote it – ?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

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