The unclean spirit of man and the holy spirit

Participant

Ezekiel 18:30-31(NIV) reads:

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“Therefore, O house of Israel, I will judge you, each one according to his ways, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall. Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, O house of Israel?

Why is The Lord instructing his people to get a new heart and a new spirit? Is he not telling them to change their corrupt ways as he explicitly states in verse 30? Are not their corrupt ways the fruit of their old heart and spirit? For are we not told elsewhere that the fruits of the spirit of righteousness is the actions of righteousness, Galatians 5:22-23? Can we not conclude from this passage that the spirit of man is corrupt and we need to get a new spirit the spirit of righteousness that will write on our hearts the law of love,Jeremiah 31:33 & Galatians 5:14?

It is also written:

Romans 5:19(NIV) reads:

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For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

What does God mean when he speaks through Paul to instruct us that all men were made sinners by the disobedience of Adam? Does he not state elsewhere that each man is responsible for his own actions, Ezekieel 18:4? Could he be speaking of the spirit that we inherited from Adam just as we inherited our flesh from him? If so could that spirit have been corrupted by his evil action? Is that why God commands us to get a new spirit? Isn’t this what Nicodemus, being a teacher of Scripture, should have known; John 3:10?

In relation to this point we are instructed:

Matthew 5:3(NIV) reads:

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“Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Or in other words:

Psalms 51:17(NIV) reads:

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The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart, O God, you will not despise.

If we do not meet this condition then how can we expect to receive and live by the promised spirit of holiness and so enter the kingdom of heaven?

April 1, 2010 at 6:12 am#185640

Participant

Hi KW,
No mere weak logic lets you down again.
The fruit expressed by natural men is that of submission to their lusts.
Jesus came to cleanse the inside of the cup so that God's Spirit can dwell within and produce good fruit.

April 1, 2010 at 7:13 am#185646

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 01 2010,13:12)

I understand you have trouble comprehending scripture and it seems what I write as well, so I must show patience with you out of love. It is one's spirit that chooses whether you submit to impure lusts or acts of righteousness. The spirit of natural man is impure and God's is pure, so I am in agreement with your conclusions.

April 1, 2010 at 7:44 am#185648

Participant

Hi KW,
You may well boast of scriptural understanding but it is strange that you prefer your own concepts.
Now you add more.

Why not seek the Spirit who wrote scripture and you would not need these clumsy inventions.

It is what is within men that makes them unclean.[mt7]
But the blood of Jesus can wash the inside of the cup and free the living soul.

April 1, 2010 at 8:07 am#185650

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 01 2010,14:44)

Hi KW,
You may well boast of scriptural understanding but it is strange that you prefer your own concepts.
Now you add more.

Why not seek the Spirit who wrote scripture and you would not need these clumsy inventions.

It is what is within men that makes them unclean.[mt7]
But the blood of Jesus can wash the inside of the cup and free the living soul.

I do not know what you are speaking of from Matthew 7 but Mark 7:14-23 teaches us that what comes out of the heart makes a man unclean. This is why we are taught to get a new heart and a new spirit for the spirt of righteousness,unlike our old one, writes God's commands on our heart.

April 1, 2010 at 6:11 pm#185676

Participant

Hi KW,
Thanks. It was Mk7.
The Spirit of God living within restores the heart with love and educates the mind.
We receive a new heart and mind transformed by renewal.
The new spirit is the Spirit of God.

Sinful behaviour is the expression though our choice of what dwells within, sin.

April 1, 2010 at 8:33 pm#185686

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 02 2010,01:11)

Sinful behavior is the expression though our choice of what dwells within, sin.

You are welcome. I am glad God allowed me to so serve you.

I do not believe we are disagreeing.

I agree with you about sinful behavior though I am also pointing out that our spirit is what guides our actions which is why scripture states about the spirit of righteousness.

John 16:13(NIV) reads:

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But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

It is because our spirit is corrupt that we need to repent and seek a new spirit that is created like God in true righteousness and holiness. It is though obeying all of Jesus' teachings that we can obtain and live by that new spirit. In this way God corrects the “flaw” that entered the human race in the Garden of Eden.

April 2, 2010 at 5:09 am#185716

Participant

Hi KW,
Why did you have to add your theology above at the end?
The spirit of every man is neither old nor replaced except at death.
The Spirit of righteousness is within, with our own spirit, if you are in Christ.
Rom 8.16

April 2, 2010 at 5:20 am#185718

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 02 2010,12:09)

So are you claiming there is no need for a new spirit?

If you old spirit is not corrupt then why do you need a new spirit? Do you also believe that you do not have an old heart that needs to be made new?

What is the definition of “new” you are using?

Thank you for Romans 8:16 as I can look into it.

April 2, 2010 at 4:03 pm#185734

Participant

Kerwin………I kinda see Nicks point Spirit never gets OLD, because it has existed for ever, the problem here is, not Really Knowing what Spirit is. Spirit is (intellect) it just depends on whose intellects is working in Us, our Intellects we recieved from the world our the Intellects we recieved from God the FATHER, Spirit is what is in BEINGS it never get OLD, it must be replaced by GOD'S Spirit, this changes our perceptions of things and causes us to become a new creation, causing us to IMAGE GOD in our Heart and Minds. Remember we are (CREATED) unto good works, there is only one creator and that is God. Change by GOD is solid as a Rock, it is not IFFY or if we agree to it or a choice at all, it is a (creation by GOD) that takes Place in everyone GOD choses to create righteousness in. Man receives NO glory in His salvation, ONLY GOD DOES. IMO

peace and love to you and yours………………..gene

April 2, 2010 at 8:50 pm#185789

Participant

Gene,

I am calling the spirit old in relation to new and rather than stating it is ancient.

I am still going to say that “intellect” is equivalent to intelligence and God does not show favoritism based on it. In is rather the knowledge of righteousness that leads to deeds he shows favoritism for.

Nick did introduce an interesting scripture in Romans 8:16 which does not actually change my basic reasoning but is one that God has not chosen to reveal to me what it means.

I do know that the impure spirit is spoken of in scripture with these words:

Psalms 32:2(NIV) reads:

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Blessed is the man whose sin the LORD does not count against him and in whose spirit is no deceit.

Nick should already know that when speaking of all men under the law Paul quotes scripture which declares:

Psalms 5:9(NIV) reads:

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Not a word from their mouth can be trusted;
their heart is filled with destruction.
Their throat is an open grave;
with their tongue they speak deceit.

That is the spirit that must be replaced and which I call old. I find it hard to believe though that it is the same spirit called “our” spirit in Romans 8:16. I also find it interesting that Romans 8:16 treats the Holy Spirit different from “our spirit” even though scripture also declares there is one spirit, Ephesians 4:4.

April 2, 2010 at 9:22 pm#185797

terraricca

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 03 2010,04:03)

peace and love to you and yours………………..gene

Gene

Ro 8:13 For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live,
Ro 8:14 because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.
Ro 8:15 For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship

this does not support your views at all,let me explain it ;

Paul talk about the teachings of Christ that we received is a spirit (words,knowledge)of live,that is the spirit we have accepted and we have changed our ways in the flesh ,to be in line with the spirit of truth of God,because Christ is the way to God,now because we have made the changes in our inner side ans have replaced our fleshly mind with our new mind in the spirit of the truth of God we now receive from God who as now access and can communicate with us,and therefore make us able ;Ro 8:16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children

this is my understanding,i taste every day,

April 2, 2010 at 10:46 pm#185808

Participant

Hi T,
The Spirit is not given by hearing but faith is.
Faith leads to obedience to the demand for repentance and water baptism in the name of Jesus.
By faith we can then request from our new father a share of His Spirit [Lk11] and that Spirit can lead and teach us and will raise us to meet Jesus.

April 2, 2010 at 11:16 pm#185820

terraricca

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 03 2010,10:46)

nick

the Holy spirit was given to Cornelius ,before he was baptise

it shows that the person who as knowledge of Gods way and Christ and so have faith in him ,and produce the deeds of that faith,it now become the pleasure of God to give his spirit to whoever he pleases

if you think i am wrong please correct me

April 3, 2010 at 2:54 am#185855

Participant

To all ….The big problem here is not understanding what Spirit (IS). Spirit (IS) Life in a Being it (IS) His MIND and the INTELLECTS in it, “so a man thinks So He (IS)”> Life (IS) intellect of the mind or Spirit (IN) action in the mind, from a human being to a one celled amoeba , from the simplest forms of life to the most complex. A mans spirit can be Judged by His Words Because his word proceed from the intellects in his mind. All life has life because of the Spirit operating in it. If God we to retract His spirits all life would cease to exist. GOD is the Life of the creation, all life bar none. Men do not want to acknowledge His Power even though they profess Him. “they acknowledge GOD but deny the Power there of”. Because of PRIDE and (SELF) righteousness they are a God unto themselves, trusting in there own so-called “FREE WILL”. God has brought every man to the Pit of death, so they can see their self (WILLS)can not save them. That they might turn their eyes to GOD who CREATES RIGHTEOUSNESS (IN) THEM. PRIDE IS THUS DESTROYED. No boasting seeing it was (ALL) by GRACE of GOD.

God can easily (CREATE Righteousness in any one from the time before they are born or after they die and are resurected or anytime between, We need to begin to see LIFE and RIGHTEOUSNESS (IS) A CREATION that (ONLY) GOD can DO. He Creates us unto righteousness by the Power of HIS Spirits. Jesus was Righteous Not because of any works HE did, But because of the Spirit, the FATHER put (IN) HIM> He was foreordained before He ever existed and Perfected by the very GOD that foreordained Him. Salvation of GOD is NOT contingent on US and OUR WILLS, But on GOD and HIS POWER and WILL. “We are created unto god works”. WE did (NOT) Chose GOD He chose US from the foundations of the World to be a type of first fruits from the grave like Jesus was. He Changes us in our minds and causes us to keep his commandments and walk in His ways, he even give us the intellect of Love and care for the weak and destitute. We are created to IMAGE GOD Just like Jesus, and by the same process we will attain that goal. IMO

peace and love to you all………………..gene

April 3, 2010 at 4:13 am#185865

Participant

Gene,

Words are used to transfer knowledge, not intelect between two parties.

April 3, 2010 at 4:20 am#185866

Participant

To All……….Jesus gave an example of an unclean Spirit leaving a man and going about in (ARID) Places looking for rest, Lets think about that a little , what is a Spirit, is it a person of some kind because Jesus portrayed it as a person does that make it really a person, Lets try to compare it to the text, first of all the man is compared to a house that is unclean and when it is cleaned the unclean is gone, then he says (he) or It goes about in (ARID) or dry places. Why did Jesus say it goes in (ARID) Places, I believe it is because spirit is must have its life (IN) Moisture as a BODY of Some kind.

Spirit can leave us and inter us, we can have our minds changes by it as it enters our thinking. But outside of a body it is useless and can effect nothing , but it will still always exist that is why Jesus said it goes about in (ARID) Places because it exists but is useless unless it is in a body it can animate. If this Spirit (intellect) is allowed to reenter the mind it can cause the mind to become ever increasingly unclean and truly the last state of that man will be worse then his first state, because he will have increased his uncleanness. Spirits are thoughts and form our intellects and animate us accordingly.

This whole concept of Spirit being (BEINGS) is Wrong IMO, Spirit is what is (IN) a Being and animates it Spirits make up the person himself, his character and mind . Spirit can enter and Leave a BODY and Still exist, As when we die the Spirits return back to HIM (GOD) who gave it , it is the life source of our Bodies, and When Spirit is united (IN) a Body then you have a LIVING SOUL. When Spirit was put into the molded flesh Body of Adam He became or came to be a living SOUL> God Will Soon remove all Evil Spirit from the earth and place it in a bottomless pit. And even the natures of animals will be changed the lamb and the lion will lye down together and they will not heart each other, But notice it say a Bottomless Pit, Why, Bottomless< because there is no end of Evil it can sink for ever and never not exist.

It can be contained but not destroyed and there fore must be mastered and controlled. Cain was told Sin was crouched at the door of his heart and He must master it. Good and Evil will Always exits but we with GOD'S Spirit in Us can master it. We are told that whoever is born of the SPIRIT of GOD can not sin because His (GOD'S) seed abides (IN) HIM. When GOD is (IN) Us we can Master Sin and EVIL for ever. Those with out His spirit can not master it, when it (evil spirit) comes it begins to influence their thinking. This is what takes place after the Millennium reign of Jesus and the Saints, when GOD releases the Evil back on the earth. The whole earth turns to the evil influencing them and come against Jesus and the Saints at Jerusalem , and God brings fire down from heaven on them. IMO

peace and love to you all……………gene

April 3, 2010 at 4:51 am#185873

terraricca

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 03 2010,16:20)

peace and love to you all……………gene

Gene

i have read your scrip and i have not find one scriptures within the text i for that conclude that this is your opinion
of how to see the thing in the bible version of things,

I wander if Christ would agree with you on your version of events?

I wander if the apostleS would agree with your opinion???

I start to wander if your opinion as any truth in it ,has it ?

well you could help if you would put scriptures beside all the thoughts you are spelling out .

so I wait and see .if you do

April 3, 2010 at 3:13 pm#185901

Participant

Terraricca………If you would have taken time to see the end of what is said you would have seen the IMO, that means In My Opinion.

But to show scripture i was referring to i will post it.

Mat 12: 43………..> When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he (IT) walks (traverses, go's about through out everywhere) through dry places, seeking rest, and finding none, …44..> then he (it) says, I will return into my House from whence I came out; and when he (it) is come, he (it) finds it empty, swept, and garnished. 45…> then goes he (it) and takes with himself (itself) seven other spirits (intellects) more wicked than himself (itself) and they (spirit intellects) enter (IN) and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first, Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

As evil is transfered by Words and actions through movies and lustful talking and all the media this whole world is getting worse and worse, more and more unclean and filthy. These unclean Spirits are growing more and more in the world and effecting peoples lives in negative way.

The question here is is a Spirit rather clean or unclean a (Being) or not? Some here say it is , like Nick, who thinks a Spirit is a Minion or leper-con of some kind, a being person, While i disagree with that assumption, and believe Spirit is simply (intellects or thoughts) that does control our behaviors. They reside in the Mind and was using the concept of a House and a Being as a Metaphor to show the effects of Spirit on the MINDS of People and the WORLD. Spirit is like the Wind in a sense it can come and go, enter and leave, but all spirit have always existed, there is not thing new under the sun, and that includes our thoughts, Thoughts are simply derived from these intellect in our minds and control our behavior, If of GOD then we behave accordingly, if unclean we behave accordingly, if of the world we behave accordingly , what ever Spirits are in a person causes His behavior because it drives his thinking it is his intellects. You can Not separate a person from his Spirit or he would die, But his spirits can be changed and replaced and His thinking will also be changed . Therefore we are Changed by the (RENEWING OF THE MIND) through Changing of our Spirits from one way of thinking to another. IMO

April 3, 2010 at 3:30 pm#185903